Is the jnani unaware of the world ?

[Guest guest]

Hello,Ramana Maharshi often says that a jnani is unaware of the world. We can find such a statement for example in the talk 82 of Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi :"In sahaja samadhi the activities, vital and mental, and the three states aredestroyed, never to reappear. However, others notice the Jnani activee.g., eating, talking, moving etc. He is not himself aware of theseactivities, whereas others are aware of his activities. They pertain tohis body and not to his Real Self, swarupa. For himself, he is likethe sleeping passenger - or like a child interrupted from sound sleepand fed, being unaware of it. The child says the next day that he didnot take milk at all and that he went to sleep without it. Even whenreminded he cannot be convinced. So also in sahaja samadhi."I have only seen this statement that a jnani is unaware of the world in Ramana Maharshi and in the writings of some of his devotees. I would like to know if this statement is a standard of advaita vedanta, that is, if the other vedantins also say such a thing. It seemed to me that the other works of vedanta that I know seemed to indicate that a jnani stays aware of the world. If it is not so, could you please tell me in which works, for example in which works of Shankaracharya, I can find such a statement that a jnani is unaware of the world ?Thanks,Manuel

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

Gnani is unaware of the World we are aware of, or an agnani is aware of.

Hari om

R. S. Mani--- On Mon, 6/30/08, manuelm9 <manuelm9 wrote:

manuelm9 <manuelm9 Is the jnani unaware of the world ?advaitin Date: Monday, June 30, 2008, 5:21 PM

 

 

Hello,Ramana Maharshi often says that a jnani is unaware of the world. We can find such a statement for example in the talk 82 of Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi :"In sahaja samadhi the activities, vital and mental, and the three states aredestroyed, never to reappear. However, others notice the Jnani activee.g., eating, talking, moving etc. He is not himself aware of theseactivities, whereas others are aware of his activities. They pertain tohis body and not to his Real Self, swarupa. For himself, he is likethe sleeping passenger - or like a child interrupted from sound sleepand fed, being unaware of it. The child says the next day that he didnot take milk at all and that he went to sleep without it. Even whenreminded he cannot be convinced. So also in sahaja samadhi."I have only seen this statement that a jnani is unaware of the world in Ramana Maharshi and in the writings of some of his

devotees. I would like to know if this statement is a standard of advaita vedanta, that is, if the other vedantins also say such a thing. It seemed to me that the other works of vedanta that I know seemed to indicate that a jnani stays aware of the world. If it is not so, could you please tell me in which works, for example in which works of Shankaracharya, I can find such a statement that a jnani is unaware of the world ?Thanks,Manuel

[Guest guest]

It is a paradox to make a statement from the relative perspective

about the absolute.

 

Upanishads say that --- Self is One without a second. All

this is Brahman--- There cannot be world separate from the Jnani to be aware

of. In Bhagavad-Gita also, at the end, Arjuna sees the different worlds and

realities within Krishna. Learned members can give more in depth explanation.

 

Namaste and love to all

 

Yours in Bhagavan

Harsha

 

 

 

 

 

advaitin

[advaitin ] On Behalf Of manuelm9

Monday, June 30, 2008 7:51 AM

advaitin

Is the jnani unaware of the world ?

 

 

 

Hello,

 

Ramana Maharshi often says that a jnani is unaware of the world. We can find

such a statement for example in the talk 82 of Talks with Sri Ramana

Maharshi :

 

" In sahaja samadhi the activities, vital and mental, and the three states

are

destroyed, never to reappear. However, others notice the Jnani active

e.g., eating, talking, moving etc. He is not himself aware of these

activities, whereas others are aware of his activities. They pertain to

his body and not to his Real Self, swarupa. For himself, he is like

the sleeping passenger - or like a child interrupted from sound sleep

and fed, being unaware of it. The child says the next day that he did

not take milk at all and that he went to sleep without it. Even when

reminded he cannot be convinced. So also in sahaja samadhi. "

 

I have only seen this statement that a jnani is unaware of the world in Ramana

Maharshi and in the writings of some of his devotees. I would like

to know if this statement is a standard of advaita vedanta, that is, if the

other vedantins also say such a thing.

 

It seemed to me that the other works of vedanta that I know seemed to indicate

that a jnani stays aware of the world. If it is not so, could you please

tell me in which works, for example in which works of Shankaracharya, I can

find such a statement that a jnani is unaware of the world ?

 

Thanks,

 

Manuel

[Guest guest]

advaitin , " manuelm9 " <manuelm9 wrote:

>

> Hello,

>

> Ramana Maharshi often says that a jnani is unaware of the world. We

can

> find such a statement for example in the talk 82 of Talks with Sri

> Ramana Maharshi :

>

> " In sahaja samadhi the activities, vital and mental, and the three

> states are

> destroyed, never to reappear. However, others notice the Jnani

active

> e.g., eating, talking, moving etc. He is not himself aware of these

> activities, whereas others are aware of his activities. They

pertain to

> his body and not to his Real Self, swarupa. For himself, he is like

> the sleeping passenger - or like a child interrupted from sound

sleep

> and fed, being unaware of it. The child says the next day that he

did

> not take milk at all and that he went to sleep without it. Even when

> reminded he cannot be convinced. So also in sahaja samadhi. "

>

> I have only seen this statement that a jnani is unaware of the

world in

> Ramana Maharshi and in the writings of some of his devotees. I

would

> like to know if this statement is a standard of advaita vedanta,

that

> is, if the other vedantins also say such a thing.

>

> It seemed to me that the other works of vedanta that I know seemed

to

> indicate that a jnani stays aware of the world. If it is not so,

could

> you please tell me in which works, for example in which works of

> Shankaracharya, I can find such a statement that a jnani is unaware

of

> the world ?

>

> Thanks,

>

> Manuel

 

Namaste all,

 

Please recall the following shloka from Viveka-Chudamani: (#426).

 

bhramAkAratayA sadA sthitatayA nirmukta-bAhyArtha-dhIH

anya-Avedita-bhogya-bhoga-kalano nidrAluvat bAlavat /

svapnAlokita-lokavaj-jagad-idaM pashyan kvacil-labdha-dhIH

Aste kaschid-ananta-puNya-phala-bhuk dhanyas-sa mAnyo bhuvi //

 

nirmukta-bAhyArtha-dhIH : Freed from awareness of any external object,

sadA sthitatayA : by reason of his ever being established

bhramAkAratayA : in the fullness of bhramaN,

anya-Avedita-bhogya-bhoga-kalanaH : being sustained (in life) by

food and drink provided by others

nidrAluvat bAlavat : like a child in sleep,

jagad-idaM pashyan : looking at this world

svapna-Alokita-lokavat : like something seen in a dream, that is, as

mithyA,

kvacil-labdha-dhIH : when at any time lapsing back to world-awareness,

kashcit ananta-puNya-phala-bhuk Aste : a rare blessed one

of infinite merit exists.

sa mAnyaH : He is to be revered

bhuvi : on earth.

 

PraNAms to all advaitins.

profvk

[Guest guest]

Hi Manuel,

 

Such statements should not be taken literally. The shloka from

the Bhagavad Gita best explains it (II.69). It states that what is night for

all beings is day for the sage and while the rest of the word is awake, it is

night for the sage. What this means is that, to the ordinary man, deluded by

ignorance, reality is comparable to the darkness of night though the Sage can

comprehend it clearly. What the ordinary man perceives as being awake, i.e.

seeing the duality and separation of the world is perceived by the Sage as the

night of ignorance. So the point is that, while everyone sees the world and

takes it as real, the j~nAnI knows that it is only mithyA (name and form of the

non-dual brahman). (But he still sees it as before. Just as we still see the

sun rise and set but know perfectly well that it isn’t really doing

anything of the sort.)

 

Best wishes,

Dennis

 

 

 

 

advaitin [advaitin ] On Behalf Of manuelm9

Monday, June 30, 2008 12:51 PM

advaitin

Is the jnani unaware of the world ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hello,

 

Ramana Maharshi often says that a jnani is unaware of the world. We can find

such a statement for example in the talk 82 of Talks with Sri Ramana

Maharshi :

 

….

 

I have only seen this statement that a jnani is unaware of the world in Ramana

Maharshi and in the writings of some of his devotees. I would like

to know if this statement is a standard of advaita vedanta, that is, if the

other vedantins also say such a thing.

 

It seemed to me that the other works of vedanta that I know seemed to indicate

that a jnani stays aware of the world. If it is not so, could you please

tell me in which works, for example in which works of Shankaracharya, I can

find such a statement that a jnani is unaware of the world ?

 

Thanks,

 

Manuel

 

_

[Guest guest]

Shree Manuelm9 - PraNams

 

Let us look at the statement closely. Since Bhagavan Ramana is a realized sage,

and he is still making the statement to the world - the implication is very

obvious.

 

If he is truly unaware of the world, then to whom he is making the statement; to

the world or to himself? Is the statement itself separate from him for him to

make IT, or is it himself that he need not have to make it?

 

Obviously if he is not aware of the world to whom he is making this statement -

either way it implies that he has not realized or what he actually meant was not

what we understand on superficial sense.

 

Hence the true meaning of not being aware of the world as we see implies that he

sees the world as something different from what we see. A jnaani is not separate

from Brahman - hence from Brahman point there is no world other than himself.

But from the Upadhis point or BMI point there is world different from the BMI

(body, mind and intellect). This is true whether one is jnaani or ajnaani. Only

jnaani knows that there is no real world out there for him to be aware of - what

is aware of is only names and forms superimposed on the reality that He is or I

am. Hence the equipments are aware of the world of plurality but jnaani knows

that what appears is only apparent and not real. Hence all the drama of life

can go on at superficial level but he is not affected by it - just as one can

say the ocean is not affected by the waves that arise, that are sustained and

that go back into.

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

 

--- On Mon, 6/30/08, manuelm9 <manuelm9 wrote:

 

Ramana Maharshi often says that a jnani is unaware of the world. We can find

such a statement for example in the talk 82 of Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi :

 

" In sahaja samadhi the activities, vital and mental, and the three states are

destroyed, never to reappear.

[Guest guest]

Pranams Sada-ji, very beautifully stated.

Manuel-ji - i had penned some thoughts on this as part of a long series of discussions in this forum a few moons ago, which i have subsequently included on my blog - perhaps it may be of some use to you for your reading.

http://poornamadam.blogspot.com/2008/02/self-realization-what-is-it.htmlHari OM

Shri Gurubhyoh namah

Shyam

--- On Mon, 6/30/08, kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada wrote:

kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisadaRe: Is the jnani unaware of the world ?advaitin Date: Monday, June 30, 2008, 12:00 PM

 

 

Shree Manuelm9 - PraNamsIf he is truly unaware of the world, then to whom he is making the statement; to the world or to himself? Is the statement itself separate from him for him to make IT, or is it himself that he need not have to make it?

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Manuel,

 

Here is another passage from Ramana Maharshi which may throw some light on the passage you have given below.

 

"It is not at all correct to say that advaitins of the Sankara school deny the existence of the world, or that they call it unreal. On the other hand, it is more real to them than to others. Their world will always exist whereas the world of the other schools will have origin, growth and decay, and as such cannot be real. They only say that the world as ‘world’ is not real, but that the world as Brahman is real. All is Brahman, nothing exists but Brahman, and the world as Brahman is real." (Gems from Bhagavan, page 7)

 

Best wishes,

 

Peter

 

 

 

advaitin [advaitin ] On Behalf Of manuelm930 June 2008 12:51advaitin Subject: Is the jnani unaware of the world ?

 

 

Hello,Ramana Maharshi often says that a jnani is unaware of the world. We can find such a statement for example in the talk 82 of Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi :"In sahaja samadhi the activities, vital and mental, and the three states aredestroyed, never to reappear. However, others notice the Jnani activee.g., eating, talking, moving etc. He is not himself aware of theseactivities, whereas others are aware of his activities. They pertain tohis body and not to his Real Self, swarupa. For himself, he is likethe sleeping passenger - or like a child interrupted from sound sleepand fed, being unaware of it. The child says the next day that he didnot take milk at all and that he went to sleep without it. Even whenreminded he cannot be convinced. So also in sahaja samadhi." <snip>

..

[Guest guest]

" manuelm9 " <manuelm9 asked:

 

>I would like to know if this statement

> is a standard of advaita vedanta, that

> is, if the other vedantins also say such a thing.

 

> couldyou please tell me in which works,

for example in which works of

> Shankaracharya, I can find such a

statement that a jnani is unaware of the world ?

 

Hola Manuel,

 

Although not an answer to your questions, here some other statements

from Bhagavan on the same line that may add some spices to this soup

of thoughts. Also, chapter 23 of " I Am That " by Nisargadatta is worth

re-reading to have the view of how a jnani experiences the world,

through his own account (although this book wasn't written by him...).

 

Adios y buena suerte,

Mouna

....................

 

Bhagavan: The state of the jnani … is neither sleep nor [the] waking

state but intermediate between the two. There is the awareness of the

waking state and the stillness of sleep. It is called jagrat-sushupti

[waking sleep]. Call it wakeful sleep or sleeping wakefulness or

sleepless waking or wakeless sleep. It is not the same as sleep or

waking separately. It is atijagrat [beyond wakefulness] or atisushupti

[beyond sleep]. It is the state of perfect awareness and perfect

stillness combined. It lies between sleep and waking; it is also the

interval between two successive thoughts. It is the source from which

thoughts spring; we see that when we wake up from sleep. In other

words thoughts have their origin in the stillness of sleep. The

thoughts make all the difference between the stillness of sleep and

the turmoil of waking. Go to the root of the thoughts and you reach

the stillness of sleep. But you reach it in the full vigour of search,

that is, with perfect awareness. (Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi,

talk no. 609)

 

Question: What is the meaning of being in sleepless sleep?

 

Bhagavan: It is the jnani's state. In sleep our ego is submerged and

the sense organs are not active. The jnani's ego has been killed and

he does not indulge in any sense activities of his own accord or with

the notion that he is the doer. So, he is in sleep. At the same time

he is not unconscious as in sleep but fully awake in the Self; so his

state is sleepless. This sleepless sleep, wakeful sleep, or whatever

it may be called, is the turiya [fourth] state of the Self, on which

as the screen all the three avasthas, the waking, dream and sleep,

pass, leaving the screen unaffected. (Day by Day with Bhagavan, 21st

November, 1945)

[Guest guest]

Hola Tocayo,As some others have said, the statement is not really clear FROM this side of the world. Yes, for a Jnani THERE IS NO EXTERNAL WORLD, but you have to also remember that there is no " ego " left to see it. In other words, the separation you see (from duality) regarding " the world " and " the perceiver " is an illusory one.

The Jnani is both " the external " and " the internal " and it can be argued that " he " can't perceive anything, " he " is not aware of " the world " because there is no " HE " and " THE WORLD " anymore!

But again, this is something that can't be understood from words alone. You have to be The Jnani to see it.On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 5:39 PM, Mouna <carlos wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

" manuelm9 " <manuelm9 asked:

 

>I would like to know if this statement

> is a standard of advaita vedanta, that

> is, if the other vedantins also say such a thing.

 

> couldyou please tell me in which works,

for example in which works of

> Shankaracharya, I can find such a

statement that a jnani is unaware of the world ?

 

Hola Manuel,

 

Although not an answer to your questions, here some other statements

from Bhagavan on the same line that may add some spices to this soup

of thoughts. Also, chapter 23 of " I Am That " by Nisargadatta is worth

re-reading to have the view of how a jnani experiences the world,

through his own account (although this book wasn't written by him...).

 

Adios y buena suerte,

Mouna

....................

 

Bhagavan: The state of the jnani … is neither sleep nor [the] waking

state but intermediate between the two. There is the awareness of the

waking state and the stillness of sleep. It is called jagrat-sushupti

[waking sleep]. Call it wakeful sleep or sleeping wakefulness or

sleepless waking or wakeless sleep. It is not the same as sleep or

waking separately. It is atijagrat [beyond wakefulness] or atisushupti

[beyond sleep]. It is the state of perfect awareness and perfect

stillness combined. It lies between sleep and waking; it is also the

interval between two successive thoughts. It is the source from which

thoughts spring; we see that when we wake up from sleep. In other

words thoughts have their origin in the stillness of sleep. The

thoughts make all the difference between the stillness of sleep and

the turmoil of waking. Go to the root of the thoughts and you reach

the stillness of sleep. But you reach it in the full vigour of search,

that is, with perfect awareness. (Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi,

talk no. 609)

 

Question: What is the meaning of being in sleepless sleep?

 

Bhagavan: It is the jnani's state. In sleep our ego is submerged and

the sense organs are not active. The jnani's ego has been killed and

he does not indulge in any sense activities of his own accord or with

the notion that he is the doer. So, he is in sleep. At the same time

he is not unconscious as in sleep but fully awake in the Self; so his

state is sleepless. This sleepless sleep, wakeful sleep, or whatever

it may be called, is the turiya [fourth] state of the Self, on which

as the screen all the three avasthas, the waking, dream and sleep,

pass, leaving the screen unaffected. (Day by Day with Bhagavan, 21st

November, 1945)

 

 

 

-- _____The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress

depends on the unreasonable man.-George Bernard Shaw

[Guest guest]

Jai Guru

 

A hundred-percent Jnani should not have ego/mind. So, there should not be any

reflected consciousness and consequently the world. The living body (for others)

may continue talking or working based on the information stored in the brain

cells.It may be like a man talking during his dream.

(But the content of the talk will be totally different).This is an ideal

situation.

What I have understood is that a Jnani is one who has made his mind pure, and

experienced Brahmic state. With his applicational ability, he keeps his body and

mind always pure. He is free of doubts. That means his ego is enlightened one.

He is always in " nirvikalpa samadhi " . Though the world including his body is

perceived by him, he is unaffected by it, as he is clear about everything.

But, when his body falls, his ego/mind will also vanish. The vanished mind,

which will totally merge with the Pure Consciousness (Brahman), will not be

aware of anything, except the Self (not that self).

 

Harih Om

 

Natarajan

[Guest guest]

A hundred-percent Jnani should not have ego/mind. So, there should not be any reflected consciousness and consequently the world. The living body (for others) may continue talking or working based on the information stored in the brain cells.It may be like a man talking during his dream.

(But the content of the talk will be totally different).This is an ideal situation.

 

praNAms Hare Krishna

But traditional advaitins would say that jnAni's body is due to his prArabdha karma & avidyA lEsha (traces of avidyA)...They wont say, it is only we (the ajnAni-s) would see the *body* of the jnAni...They are clear in their assertion that it is due to prArabhdha karma phala shEsha (residue of fruits of previous karma) jnAni still identifies with his BMI with the influence of traces of avidyA even after brahma jnAna or self realization. However, shankara says jnAni would realize the fact that he was never embodied even before the realization of this truth...

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar

[Guest guest]

Howdy!

 

I've been given to understand the the"aggregates" (skandas) continue to exist until the physical and subtle bodies eventualy dissolve after death. The skandas give generate an ordinary sense of "I", but the Jnani sees "through" the skandas, and so sees that they have no inherent "Self-Nature, and are tenporary structures. "Awareness As Such" is "aware" by definition. The Jnani expereinces the "world" (including all mental and bodily sensations) with perfect vivid awareness.

 

Ken Shaw

 

-------------- Original message -------------- Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr

 

 

A hundred-percent Jnani should not have ego/mind. So, there should not be any reflected consciousness and consequently the world. The living body (for others) may continue talking or working based on the information stored in the brain cells.It may be like a man talking during his dream. (But the content of the talk will be totally different).This is an ideal situation.

praNAms Hare Krishna But traditional advaitins would say that jnAni's body is due to his prArabdha karma & avidyA lEsha (traces of avidyA)...They wont say, it is only we (the ajnAni-s) would see the *body* of the jnAni...They are clear in their assertion that it is due to prArabhdha karma phala shEsha (residue of fruits of previous karma) jnAni still identifies with his BMI with the influence of traces of avidyA even after brahma jnAna or self realization. However, shankara says jnAni would realize the fact that he was never embodied even before the realization of this truth... Hari Hari Hari Bol!!! bhaskar

[Guest guest]

 

Namaste, all

Only a hundred-per-cent gnani can vouch for what has been said. Since such a gnani has "no mind nor any ego" he/she will not be able to say anything about that.

It is not understood how a hundred-per-cent gnani will have no mind nor any ego. While in deep sleep we all are free from ego and mind at least to some extent, and does it mean we are all hundred-per-cent-gnanis during deep sleep?

Hari Om

Mani

R. S. Mani

[Guest guest]

It is not understood how a hundred-per-cent gnani will have no mind nor any ego. While in deep sleep we all are free from ego and mind at least to some extent, and does it mean we are all hundred-per-cent-gnanis during deep sleep?

praNAms

Hare Krishna

After reading this I am getting one more doubt....if jnAni does not have mind, senses, ego etc.etc. if jnAni is not speaking, thinking, doing nothing etc....then how can we believe *a jnAni's* teaching?? (upadEsha)...After all it is only *our* (ajnAni-s) observation that he is imparting jnAna through speech ..but according to on going discussion, jnAni does not do anything is it not?? under these circumstances, how can an Apta vAkya (jnAni's words) be a pramANa in brahma jignAsa :-))...So, to make it safe, I think we should say, jnAni does speak from his brahmAnubhava but without identifying himself with the speech organ :-)) is it appropriate to say like that?? Kindly clarify.

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar

[Guest guest]

Jnani teaches by wearing the mask of Ego(which is constituted by doer

and enjoyer statuses).Jnanam or ajnanam, to be communicated, needs the

support of Ego.

[Guest guest]

World being non-different from " him " the Jnani doesn't " see " or be

aware of the world as such. But an ajnani (who is unaware of the

oneness of the world (object) and himself(subject))definitely sees

the world

[Guest guest]

Shree Natarajan - PraNAms

 

Here is my understanding regarding the paragraphs 1 to 3 below:

 

--- On Wed, 7/2/08, P.R.Natarajan <ntrjnpr wrote:

Jai Guru

 

1. A hundred-percent Jnaani should not have ego/mind. So, there should not be

any reflected consciousness and consequently the world. The living body (for

others) may continue talking or working based on the information stored in the

brain cells. It may be like a man talking during his dream.

(But the content of the talk will be totally different).This is an ideal

situation.

-----------

It is the question of how one interprets the situation. First the BMI are

equipments and belong to matter or of lower nature or prakRiti aspect of the

Lord - see B.G. 7 - sloka Bhumiraaponalo vaayuH ... where ahankaara or ego is

also included as part of His lower nature. BMI belongs to prakRiti whether one

is jnaani or ajnaani.

 

As long as BMI is there the consciousness gets reflected in the equipments

available and the reflection depends on the purity of the equipments.

 

PrakRiti does the action - PraKritaivaca Armani kriyamaanaani sarvasaH ..says

Krishna - all actions are done by prakRiti - whether it is jnaani or ajnaani.

The actions are propelled by the vasanaas which is also part of prakRiti only -

na hi kaschit kshNamapi jaatu tushTasya karmakRit ... that on one (no BMI) can

stop performing actions and they are propelled by vaasanaas - you can say

prarabdha etc.

 

What is then the difference between jnaani and ajnaani?

 

Jnaani knows that he is chaitanya and not inert BMI - the inert BMI is only

adhyaasa like sunrise and sunset although the truth is sun neither rises nor

sets.

ajnaani thinks that he is BMI and operatives on that basis.

 

Jnaani knows he is consciousness which is infiniteness (Brahman) - hence he has

realized his true identity. But due to the existence of BMI and the reflected

consciousness by the BMI, he 'as though' looks entrapped in the BMI - like space

in the pot, even though pot space is not different from the total space and

there are no real division of pot-space from total space. Jnaani knows that he

is the total space but appear to operate at a local level as just the pot-space

- see the detailed discussion on upahita chaitanya (knowledge and the means of

knowledge - post 12). See the life of Krishna or Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi or

shree Nisargadatta Maharaj -whose lives we are all familiar.

 

Hence jnaani talks and operates the BMI like any other but with clear

understanding that He is not BMI but as though using BMI appropriately as the

situation demands. Read the response of Nisargadatta Maharaj in response to the

question who is answering the questions in the form of Nisargadatta Maharaj in

the 'I am that' book.

---------------

2. What I have understood is that a Jnaani is one who has made his mind pure,

and experienced Brahmic state. With his application ability, he keeps his body

and mind always pure. He is free of doubts. That means his ego is enlightened

one. He is always in " nirvikalpa samadhi " . Though the world including his body

is perceived by him, he is unaffected by it, as he is clear about everything.

 

--------

The above description if one looks carefully does contradict the paragraph 1

above. Either 'he is there' to keep his BMI pure or 'He is not there' to do

anything including keeping BMI pure.

 

Once one has realized that I am the total - there is no more impurities left -

all impurities are notions that 'I am this' is a notion which makes on to feel

limited and therefore 'this BMI, that I am' is likely to become impure since

impurity is different from the BMI. In the totality (infinite)there is no

impurity which has to be different from infinity! He transcends the notion of

purity and impurity - beyond dvandas - pairs of duality or opposites.

 

 

Regarding 'ego' - Ego is the notion that 'I am this' - that is identification

with limited reflected consciousness. - it is the identification that is the

problem. Ego can never realize!

 

Brahman need not have to realize. Then realization or jnaanam is to recognize

that I am pure consciousness and not 'this-idam' and all this is only apparent

and not real.

 

Realization which involves knowledge - knowledge does not eliminate the objects

- I have now the true knowledge of the objects - The true knowledge of the

objects and the world, including BMI, is to know that they are nothing but

Brahman but with superficial names and forms.

Hence he 'as though' operates at transactional level like any other beings but

does not associate himself that He is doing anything at absolute level - like an

actor playing the drama taking the role of beggar, or king or villain etc. Actor

is not affected by the roles since he is playing the roles knowing very well he

is not the roles that he is playing. This is true for jnaani as well as ajnaani

also but ajnaani takes the roles as real forgetting that he is actor playing

this is a drama of life. From the point of jnaani the drama of life is just

drama of life - like vibhuuti or glory to paly the drama beautifull and it is

fun.

 

His realization is a realization of the facts of life that is everything is at

superficial level or transactional level and should be understood as such that

is only transactional reality not absolute reality.

---------

3. But, when his body falls, his ego/mind will also vanish. The vanished mind,

which will totally merge with the Pure Consciousness (Brahman), will not be

aware of anything, except the Self (not that self).

-----------

Actually there is no merger since merger involves joining of two things. He has

already understood that I am the totality. The BMI is also nothing but Brahman

but with superimposed names and forms. Hence when the pot breaks the pot-space

merges with the total space - only in the sense that there is no more limiting

reflecting consciousness that enlivens the equipments - the equipments go back

to the basic elements that are formed - the panca bhuutas and Brahman remains as

Brahman.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Hari Om!

 

Sadananda

[Guest guest]

Jai Guru

Pranaams Shri Sadananda ji. I thank you for the beautiful explanation.

I tried to convey what I have understood. I was very brief and my expression was

not so clear. As you have pointed out there was a little contradiction. I too

felt so while writing the second paragraph in my posting. I could not express my

views in a better way avoiding it completely.

 

I remember to have read in Panchadasi that mind and pure consciousness are two

modes of the same entity. When still and peaceful, it is called pure

consciousness. It is the base. When movement and agitation are there, it becomes

mind. It is like silence and sound.

 

A mind/ego can become doubt free and pure with prolonged sadhana under a Guru's

guidance and that ego can be called an enlightened ego, I think.

 

Harih Om

 

Natarajan

[Guest guest]

A short work entitled Jivanmuktanandalahari, attributed to Shri

Shankara, is posted at the following website. The Sanskrit slokas are

given with English transliteration and translation.

 

http://www.kamakoti.org/shlokas/kshlok23.htm

 

It is an interesting description of how a jivanmukta conducts himself

in the world.

S.N.Sastri