Gita 11.54 and 18.55: please explain the difference

[Guest guest]

praNAms advaitins,

 

I would like the learned members of this group to explain the

difference between verses 11.54 and 18.55 of Bhagavad Gita.

The message seems to be similar, but something subtle is being

implied in the repetition, if there is any.

 

bhak{}tyaa tvananyayaa shak{}ya ahameva.nvidho.arjuna .

GYaatuM drashhTu.n cha tatvena praveshhTu.n cha para.ntapa .. 11\.54..

 

11.54. But, O Arjuna, by single-minded devotion am I-in this

form-able to be known and seen in reality, and also be entered

into, O destroyer of foes.

 

bhak{}tyaa maamabhijaanaati yaavaanyashchaasmi tattvataH .

tato maaM tattvato GYaatvaa vishate tadana.ntaram.h .. 18\.55..

 

18.55. Through devotion he knows Me in reality, as to what and

who I am. Then, having known Me in truth, he enters (into Me)

immediately after that (Knowledge).

 

praNAms to all advaitins,

Ramakrishna

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sri Ramakrishna:

 

Your intuition regarding Gita's messages in the verses 11.54 and

18.55 is quite right. Both these verses provide pointers for reaching

the ultimate goal – eternal peace and liberation from birth and

death.

 

In verse 11.54 Gita focuses on single minded devotion to the Lord

Regarding devotion Shankara says: " No doubt, of the means available

for liberating ourselves, the most substantial hardware is Bhakti;

and identifying ourselves with the Self is called Bhakti. "

Identification is the truest measure of Love. The devotee, forgetting

his own individual existence and, in his love, identifying to become

one with his beloved Lord, is the culmination of Divine Love. The

Vedantic student, who is the seeker of the Self, is spiritually

obliged to renounce all his abject identification with his matter

vestures and to discover his true nature to be the Self. To get full

understanding what is being stressed, we should also look at verse

11.55 which summarizes the character of the Bhakti Yogi:

 

Matkarmakrinmatparamo madbhaktah sangavarjitah;

Nirvairah sarvabhooteshu yah sa maameti paandava.

 

The Bhakti Yogi works for Me, accepts Me as the supreme Goal, is

devoted to Me, is devoid of attachment and free from enmity towards

all beings attains Me.

 

Such a Bhakti Yogi is madbhaktah, Sanga-vajitah, and Nirvairah:

 

Madbhaktah who adores Me alone in all ways totally with full

enthusiasm. Also accepts reaching me as Mat-paramah (supreme Goal)

 

Sanga-varjitah, who is devoid of attachment for wealth, sons friends,

wife and relatives, Sanga means fondness, love

devoid of them.

 

Nirvairah, who is free from enmity sarva-bhutesu, towards all beings-

berefit of the idea of enmity even towards those engaged in doing

unmost harm to him-.

 

In other words, the focus of 11.54 is Bhakti Yoga and liberation by

serving and dedicating all works to Isvara (Saguna Brahman!)

 

In verse 55 of chapter 18 Gita Stresses the importance of JnAna Yoga

and defines the key characteristics of the jnAna Yogi. The jnAna yogi

focuses full attention on the ultimate Truth – the Brahman (Nirguna

Brahman!). Here the contemplation (meditation) by removing all

thoughts other the Ultimate Truth is being stressed in Gita. To get

full grasp of what is being stressed we should also look at verses

56, 57, 58 and 59. Arjuna is being advised by Lord Krishna that he

has to get rid of his Delusion (ignorance) by identifying himself

with the SUPREME instead of BMI (body, mind and intellect).

 

Honestly speaking, it will not always be possible by comparing two

verses (one from the early chapter and another from the later

chapter) because the context of those verses are quite important.

The contexts may be clearer if we look at more verses instead of only

one as is being demonstrated above. But essentially Gita can never be

comprehended by a single verse or by a single chapter. If it is so,

Gita would have ended in chapter 2 (especially by the verses 54 to

72). Swami Chinmayanandaji declares Gita as a manual for human

liberation and since each of us come with different backgrounds and

frames of mind, we want to use different sections of this elaborate

manual. It should be also pointed out the divisions – Karma, Bhakti

and Jnana Yogas of Gita are our own creation for our own easy

understanding and for our starting point for our Sadhana. Ultimately

when we merge with the Brahman all these bhedas such as Saguna and

Nirguna, Karma, Bhakti and Janana, and Satvik, Rajastik and Tamasik

will get dissolved along with all our delusions!

 

With my warmest regards,

Ram Chandran

 

 

advaitin , " Ramakrishna Upadrasta "

<uramakrishna wrote:

>

> praNAms advaitins,

>

> I would like the learned members of this group to explain the

> difference between verses 11.54 and 18.55 of Bhagavad Gita.

> The message seems to be similar, but something subtle is being

> implied in the repetition, if there is any.

[Guest guest]

Namaste Shri Ramakrishna Upadrashta,

 

I do not seem to have time to explain in detail, but quickly I shall

try to tell you what I think is the identity in the apparent

difference between the two shlokas. Remember in Ch.7-16 Krishna talks

of four different bhaktas and he says there the JnAni's bhakti is the

suprememost. Well, the para bhakti that 18-55 talks about is that

jnAni's bhakti. Whereas, the bhakti that 11-54 talks about is the

bhakti of the others. But the goals of both are the same.

 

PraNAms to all advaitins.

profvk

[Guest guest]

HARI AUM

 

Throughout the 'gita' one will find the principles of 'karma, jnana, bhakthi' applied at different levels. Afterall the 'gita' is for the same individual to evolve. So apparent repetitions at the level of 'techniques/principles' are unavoidable.

 

Regards

 

Balagopal

 

NARAYANA NARAYANA NARAYANA--- On Tue, 5/8/08, V. Krishnamurthy <profvk wrote:

V. Krishnamurthy <profvk Re: Gita 11.54 and 18.55: please explain the differenceadvaitin Date: Tuesday, 5 August, 2008, 10:25 PM

 

 

Namaste Shri Ramakrishna Upadrashta,I do not seem to have time to explain in detail, but quickly I shall try to tell you what I think is the identity in the apparent difference between the two shlokas. Remember in Ch.7-16 Krishna talks of four different bhaktas and he says there the JnAni's bhakti is the suprememost. Well, the para bhakti that 18-55 talks about is that jnAni's bhakti. Whereas, the bhakti that 11-54 talks about is the bhakti of the others. But the goals of both are the same. PraNAms to all advaitins.profvk

Unlimited freedom, unlimited storage. Get it now

[Guest guest]

Further to the clarifications provided by our learned friends, I just

want to add my interpretation.

 

The important thing that the Lord is stressing in both these slokas

is " ananyabhakti " and by putting this in context in both the slokas,

it is being implied that it does not matter whether it is jnana or

bhakti that a sadhaka seeks, what is more important is whether or not

it is single-minded/single-pointed.

 

So the lord is providing the various alternatives and then the

important qualifier that If the seeker is single-minded, he would

attain liberation.

 

Interestingly, I have just started posting on the verses from Chapter

12 of the bhagavad gita at my site http://www.gitaaonline.com/ and

the first few verses of this chapter provide this same clarification.

 

You could also check out an interesting explanation on the

various " apparent " contradictions in the Gita, in my audio blogs.

 

Regards

 

Sowmya

http://www.gitaaonline.com/

 

advaitin , balagopal ramakrishnan <rbalpal

wrote:

>

> HARI AUM

>  

> Throughout the 'gita' one will find the principles of 'karma,

jnana, bhakthi' applied at different levels. Afterall the 'gita' is

for the same individual to evolve. So apparent repetitions at the

level of 'techniques/principles' are unavoidable.

>  

> Regards

>  

> Balagopal

>  

> NARAYANA NARAYANA NARAYANA

> --- On Tue, 5/8/08, V. Krishnamurthy <profvk wrote:

>

> V. Krishnamurthy <profvk

> Re: Gita 11.54 and 18.55: please explain the

difference

> advaitin

> Tuesday, 5 August, 2008, 10:25 PM

Namaste Shri Ramakrishna Upadrashta,

>

> I do not seem to have time to explain in detail, but quickly I

shall

> try to tell you what I think is the identity in the apparent

> difference between the two shlokas. Remember in Ch.7-16 Krishna

talks

> of four different bhaktas and he says there the JnAni's bhakti is

the

> suprememost. Well, the para bhakti that 18-55 talks about is that

> jnAni's bhakti. Whereas, the bhakti that 11-54 talks about is the

> bhakti of the others. But the goals of both are the same.

>

> PraNAms to all advaitins.

> profvk

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

Download prohibited? No problem. CHAT from any browser,

without download. Go to http://in.webmessenger./

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste Advaitins,

 

Thanks to everyone who responded to this question. Here are some of my

thoughts on the 11.45 and 18.55. I am just expanding on what I think has

been explained by the various replies. Any corrections are welcome.

 

The key difference between 11.54 and 18.55 seems to be that of the path and

the goal (sAdhana/sAdhya). 11.54 is talking more about the path that results

in the goal 18.55. In vedanta, of course, if the seeker sticks to the path

with devotion (dedication), she would reach the goal.

 

==

 

Now, as learned members of have pointed out, the bhakti of 18.55 is the

parA bhakti, which is the same as jnAna (posts #1604 and #41125 of

Professor-ji and post #41122 of Shri Ram Chandranji.). Here are a couple

of points that can be thought of as corroborating this claim:

 

1. These verses of 18th chapter are well known to be the ones where the

differences between Karma, Bhaki and jnAna subside. The works of a person

as described in these verses are Naishkarmya (happen without his effort). A

bhakta here is parA bhakta: he has reached the pinnacle of devotion as he

sees the Lord everywhere. A jnAni here has nothing else to know: He is the

same as the Lord.

 

2. Another simple way to think about 18.55 is the following: in 18.55, if we

substitute the word bhakti with the word jnAna, keeping in mind the equality

of the height of both of them, as described in 7.16 and 7.17, the message

becomes as clear as it can be. The Lord is saying " By knowledge, you know me

and reach me " . Isn't it clear?

 

Two related notes on 18.55:

a. Shri Adi Shankara clarifies this tadanantaram (meaning later) as meaning

not a future event, but one that happens immediately/instantaneously. Once

you switch on the light, we have to see the reality!

b. Incidentally, the similarity of the word 'tadanantaram' in 18.55 and the

'antakaale.api' in 2.72 cannot be missed.

 

==

 

Now, here are the reasons on why 11.54 can be classified as a

sAdhana shloka: One that emphasizes the way in which the

means can be achieved.

 

1. The keyword for such classification is the beautiful word 'ananya'.

Such an adjective to the word bhakti makes 11.54 much like its other uses

like: 8.22, 9.13, 9.22 or 9.30.

 

Each of which are dealing with a sAdhaka who still has the notion of a

paroska Ishvara. Incidentally, all of these verses are in the crucial

upAsana shatkam! The culmination of devotion is one when the devotee and

Ishvara become one. The parokshatva (otherness) of the Ishvara can only be

known by Knowledge, which is not different from pure bhakti.

 

2. The most important proof of this is the verse 13.11 (or 13.10 in some

versions), where the Lord while explaining the sAdhana as part of the

amAnitvadi guNAs (13-8/13-7 to 13-12/13-11). In that, he uses the phrase

'ananya-yogEna bhaktiravyabhichAriNI'. This could help us conclude the same.

 

[A side note: after I wrote the above two reasons, I was humbled to discover

that my thoughts are echoing of Prof VK-ji's beautiful writeup on the

subject at http://www.geocities.com/profvk/livehappily_8.html

]

 

3. Also, 11.54 resumes the teaching of Lord Krishna in the upAsana shatkam,

of which 10 and 11 can be considered (needed of course) digressions.

In verses of chapter 8 and 9, as well as beginning of chapter 10, there

was the teaching of the Lord about bhakti as way of reaching the Lord. The

verse 11.54 resumes that.

 

4. Just as in 18.55, if we substitute the word phrase 'bhaktya-ananyayaa'

with an X and ask the questions:

 

a. What makes us know the Lord?

b. What makes us see him in *reality*

c. What makes us enter into him?

and add the question: what is the easy way which leads to the above?

 

It can be seen that the right word to be substituted in X is devotion.

Not just plain devotion, but one that is steadfast. This will lead to a

difference in daily attitude of the steadfast devotee, as described in

the final verses of chapter 12.

 

==

 

Here is some related notes: One can note that there is repitition between

verses 11.48 and 11.53. But it should be noted that they are not said by the

Lord in the same form! One of them is the Cosmic form and other other is the

" usual form " . The emphasis here of both of them, is the same: The vision of

Arjuna cannot be achieved by any kriya. It happens due to His grace, which

is easily obtained by the vehicle of bhakti.

 

It should also be noted that the the only injunction that the Lord in his

Cosmic form (in verses) is to do his duty! That distinguishes an the Lord in

his Cosmic form who is an Ishvara, from he Lord in his " normal form " , who

is a Guru.

 

Krishnam Vande Jagadgurum!

PraNAms to all Advaitins,

Ramakrishna