Guest guest Posted August 5, 2008 Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 Namaste Satsanghis: I plan to resume the Gita Satsangh (Chapter 12) from August 24th Sunday (Lord Krishna's Birthday Weekend). As before, I will be posting every Sunday two or 3 verses and during the week, we can discuss further. Gita verses, word by word meaning along with a complete English translation by Swami Gambirananda (Sankara Bhashya) along with commentary by Swami Chinmayananda will be posted on weekly basis. In addition to this I do plan to post commentary by Swami Dayananda Saraswati from his Home-study notes whenever necessary. In addition to these commentaries I expect learned members of the list to join me by posting their understanding and their life experience that can be related to the verses under discussion. Our dear ProfVK has just completed the book " LIVE HAPPILY, THE GITA WAY: AN OVERVIEW OF THE GITA " which will be available soon. He will be able to offer his insights during the Satsangh. Also our dear Dr. Sadanandaji has been conducting weekly discourses on " Gita Navaneetham " and he will be able to enlighten us with his insights. We will also get guidance from our dear Anandaji, Dennisji, Gregji, Sastriji and Sunderji on their thoughts. Most importantly, I would very much appreciate all the silent members to open up their hearts and inject their thoughts and questions. The Satsangh will become less effective and less useful without participation from the members and I strongly encourage everyone to attend. We are a friendly family group and you should feel free express your comments, questions and clarifications without any hesitation. In addition to the commentaries and interactive discussions, I do plan to outline some questions and themes that are specific with respect to this chapter. This will help us to focus our attention and get better insights. Sankaracharya in Bhajagovindham emphasizes the importance of Satsangh with the following verse: satsaN^gatve nissN^gatvaM nissaN^gatve nirmohatvam.h . nirmohatve nishchalatattvaM nishchalatattve jiivanmuktiH – Verse 9 From the company of good and holy people, one develops a state of non- attachment; from this comes freedom from delusion; this leads to a state of tranquility of mind, which enables one to attain freedom. Sri Sankara here gives us a ladder to climb up to the level of salvation. The first step is satsangha: the company of holy people, saints, good men and women. This is the basis of all further steps. It is a well-known fact that good character is developed from the company of good people and hence the sadhakas (seekers) desirous of God realization should attempt to keep only the company of really good people. Satsangha helps them know which is real and which is transitory; which leads to God and which leads away. Equipped thus with true knowledge, the aspirant slowly develops non-attachment to things of the world. The Gita lays great importance to non–attachment (Anasakti Yoga). This attitude of renunciation of worldly pleasures and charms is required for further progress. The sadhaka who is non-attached slowly gets free from delusion. The Maya of the world fails to mislead such a sadhaka. When the seeker meditates on the Lord with the mind thus purified, he is sure to reach a state of tranquility. The tranquil mind soon realizes Truth. The Yogi now attains freedom. Freedom from the chain of birth and death; freedom from ignorance, misery, transitory nature of the world. In other words a good starting point for liberation is Satsangh and our efforts (Sadhana) should rightly begin from here. With my warmest regards, Ram Chandran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 Dear Ramachandran, It is a nice write up of the good effects of Satsangh. It is mentioned that many list members are silent or wouldn't like to open their mouth. The reason perhaps , especially concerning me is that we don't want to exhibit our ignorance publicly and hence withdrawing ourselves , continuing to enjoy the postings, at least some serious ones, sometimes laugh at the chatting between Marko and pukhraj. I suggest to moderators to filter the names of list members before admission based on the eligibility criteria. Apropos Satsangh, I would like to quote one verse in Kannada which was translated from KABIR's Dohe by Late Swami Purushottamananda, Ramakrishna Mutt, Belagum, Karnataka, without any alteration to the beauty or meaning, He has also sung the 40 Dohes in a Casette in the same style that is sung in Hindi.(popular in Maharashtra and border areas). The first one is: tIrtha yAtrege phala ondu sAdhu sangake nAlku sajjana sangake phalavu anEka iduve santara vAni kabIra. There is one unit of Phala (frution) for the piligrimage, 4 units for association with SanyAsis, but it is innumerable units for Satsang, This is the statement from Santas, Oh! KabIra. Some member who has got original Hindi or Marathi script may give the same for the benefit of interested members. Thanks and best wishes UHS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 Dear Sri UHS: Thanks for your remarks and sharing the thoughts from Swami Purshothamanandaji. Sankaracharya has already declared that the mulakaranam (root cause) for all our problems was due to avidya (ignorance). He also points out that we should take all necessary efforts (sadhana) with shraddha (faith with conviction) to get rid of avidya. In this forum we can get rid of our ignorance by expressing what we are ignorant during the satsangh. Knowledge can be gained only when we are ready to get rid of our ignorance. None of the participants of this forum are masters of all subjects and each one of us possesses an unknown virtue gifted by the Lord. Life is always 'give' and 'take' and through exchanges of our scholarship we help our selves and also help others. In other words, Satsangh is a win-win proposition for the silents to express their opinion. The saying, " the only stupid question is the one that has never been asked? " explains why we should speak out instead of being silent. We are always in between the two extreme - " knows everything " and 'knows nothing.' When we speak out, we do not exhibit our ignorance but we show our eagerness to get rid of our ignorance! With my warmest regards, Ram Chandran advaitin , " subramanya.uh " <subramanya.uh wrote: > > Dear Ramachandran, > It is a nice write up of the good effects of Satsangh. It is mentioned that many list members are silent or wouldn't like to open their mouth. The reason perhaps , especially concerning me is that we don't want to exhibit our ignorance publicly and hence withdrawing ourselves , continuing to enjoy the postings,> UHS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2008 Report Share Posted August 7, 2008 HARI AUM The only thing the moderators need to ensure is to maintain an atmosphere where one can post without any fear or favour. Let 'Gita' verse 17/15 be the guiding principle while making any post. Regards Balagopal NARAYANA NARAYANA NARAYANA--- On Wed, 6/8/08, Ram Chandran <ramvchandran wrote: Ram Chandran <ramvchandran Re: Gita Satsangh will resume Starting from Krishna Janmastami (Gokulastami)advaitin Date: Wednesday, 6 August, 2008, 8:50 PM Dear Sri UHS:Thanks for your remarks and sharing the thoughts from Swami Purshothamanandaji. Sankaracharya has already declared that the mulakaranam (root cause) for all our problems was due to avidya (ignorance). He also points out that we should take all necessary efforts (sadhana) with shraddha (faith with conviction) to get rid of avidya. In this forum we can get rid of our ignorance by expressing what we are ignorant during the satsangh. Knowledge can be gained only when we are ready to get rid of our ignorance. None of the participants of this forum are masters of all subjects and each one of us possesses an unknown virtue gifted by the Lord. Life is always 'give' and 'take' and through exchanges of our scholarship we help our selves and also help others. In other words, Satsangh is a win-win proposition for the silents to express their opinion. The saying, "the only stupid question is the one that has never been asked?" explains why we should speak out instead of being silent. We are always in between the two extreme - "knows everything" and 'knows nothing.' When we speak out, we do not exhibit our ignorance but we show our eagerness to get rid of our ignorance!With my warmest regards,Ram Chandranadvaitin@ s.com, "subramanya. uh" <subramanya. uh wrote:>> Dear Ramachandran,> It is a nice write up of the good effects of Satsangh. It is mentioned that many list members are silent or wouldn't like to open their mouth. The reason perhaps , especially concerning me is that we don't want to exhibit our ignorance publicly and hence withdrawing ourselves , continuing to enjoy the postings,> UHS Connect with friends all over the world. Get India Messenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2008 Report Share Posted August 7, 2008 PraNAms to all - In preparation for the resumption of Gita Satsangh by Shree Ram Chandran- I am reposting the introduction to Gita study to remind ourselves the purpose of this satsangh and how we can put the eternal teaching of Gita in our daily life. Hari Om! Sadananda INTRODUCTION Bhagavad Gita occupies a unique place in the pursuit of truth, the truth that transcends time and space – sanaatana dharma. The student of Gita is a man of action, Nara, and the teacher is the Lord of the Universe, Narayana, and the teaching is in the midst of a battle filed. The dramatization of the set up is unique, and symbolizes the relevance of Gita to resolve eternal conflict – the fundamental human problem - conflict of do-s versus don’t-s, conflict of duty versus attachments, conflict of right versus wrong or conflict of dharma versus adharma. Unlike in the Upanishads where the contemplative teaching normally takes place in the quietitude of serene Himalayan environment, Gitopadesha starts in the middle of two armies that are ready to fight. The teaching in the battlefield is dramatization of the war within and war without. The teaching starts before the first arrow was shot and when the student looses his objectivity because of his attachments. The attachments cloud his vision of right from wrong. This was true for Arjuna and this is true for all of us. The teaching is needed to face the war squarely with right attitude. Arjuna represents the man of action, who feels responsible to uplift dharma, who has gone through life’s struggles and tribulations, and who is ready to fight for justice. As a kshatriya prince, it was ingrained in him that he should uphold dharma at any cost. The dramatization of Bhagavad Gita set-up indicates that dhaarmic action or an action to uphold the righteousness forms a basis for evolution of the mind and for its purification, before one retires for contemplation on the higher nature. Krishna not only provides a methodology of how to act, but also with what attitude one should act, along with the secret of success in any pursuit. In addition, He also teaches the essence of the human goal in all our pursuits, and how to acquire that state. Thus, Gita is not only a yoga shaastra but also contains the Brahma vidya. Typical of all Hindu scriptures, the teaching is done in the form of a dialogue, samvAda, between the teacher and the taught – KrishnArjuna samvAda. The student is encouraged to ask questions to clarify his understanding. The teaching is not sectarian or provincial; it is addressed to all human beings transcending gender, cast, creed, or nationality, who are struggling to experience their divine nature, the universal oneness of their soul, while facing the continuous onslaught of vicissitudes that life provides. It is the teaching that synthesizes the unity than glorifies the diversity, that unifies than discriminates, that invites than imposes, like a mother who steers the child to a greater happiness with discipline and love. It evokes bhakti or love for the highest, out of fulfillment than out of emptiness, with love-divine filled with compassion and sacrifice than love of greed, of demanding or of begging. Gita echoes the teaching of eternal by a universal teacher who proclaims the teaching from eons, which was sung by sages and saints of the yore – ‘RishhibiH bahudA gItaM’. Krishna himself declares that He himself taught this knowledge eons ago to Vivaswan, and now He is teaching again purely out of love to Arjuna and thus to humankind. Gita is a quintessence of Upanishads milked by Lord Krishna himself for the benefit of humanity - sarvOpanishhadO gaavO dhOgdhA gOpAla nandanaH. It does not deal with a philosophy of academic interest, but deals with Brahma vidya, about the knowledge of eternal reality along with the science of dynamic application to gain that knowledge, yoga shAstra. The love or devotion is rational and not sentimental, and it is universal with fullness as it is all inclusive and not narrow mindedness with exclusions. It proclaims: yO yO yAm yAm tanum bhaktaH shraddayArchitumicchati| tasya tasya calAm shraddhAm tameva vividhAmyaham||7-21 “Whoever, whoever he may be he who, and whatever, whatever form he worships Me, the universal principle, with full devotion, in that and in that form alone I give him the unshakable faith. It emphasizes the formless form of the ever-existent truth, which includes all forms, while excluding none. Hence, any form is as good as any other form. That form that captivates one’s mind and that takes one beyond the form is an ideal form for him. Furthermore, Krishna declares that in whatever way one worships that form he blesses them in that way, “ye yathaa maam prapadyante taam stathaiva bhajaamyahamâ€. Thus, devotion to the universal principle knows no bounds, no norms to be followed, no methodology, no rules and regulations, not even specific forms to be used. Krishna declares: patram pushpam phalam toyam, yo me bhaktyaa prayatcchati| tadam bhaktyupahRitam ashnaami prayataatmanaH|| Whoever offers me with full devotion, a leaf, a flower, a fruit, or even some water, with pure heart without any demand, without any beggary, I receive it with love. It is not a transactional love. It is love of adoration thanking for whatever that has been given. Man is blessed with an impeccable body to transact with the world outside, a beautiful mind to feel emotions of the heart and a contemplative intellect to think conceptually and learn – what more can one ask for. The love for the divine depicted in Gita is an unadulterated pure love. It is a longing of the soul for the supreme reality to become one with it, without any expectations, without any fear, without any reservations. The culmination of the love is the complete surrenderance to the supreme, where there are no more divisions or no more distinctions of any kind, where all the notions of jiiva including the separateness from the Lord are dissolved in that pure love. Pure love demands identity without any exclusions, evolving from sAdRisyam to sAmIpyam to sAyujyam – vision and admiration of the Lord, closer acquaintance with the Lord and ultimately to become one with the Lord. Bhagavad Gita is applicable for all centuries to come and for the whole humanity, since it deals with eternal reality and man’s struggles to realize the supreme. Thus, it deals with the science of yoga. Its approach is catholic taking one beyond the narrow corridors of fanaticism, which involves exclusiveness that is contrary to the oneness of the totality. Dramatization of the teaching with superior intellect Krishna in the driver’s seat with rains in his hand teaching Arjuna who is confused in the battle field is a symbolic representation depicted in Kathopanishad. Bhagavaan Shankara in his introduction to Gita bhaashhya states that Lord Narayana having brought forth the entire universe from unmanifest to manifest provided a two-pronged approach to humans for their evolution; pravRitti, the path of action and nivRitti, the path of contemplation. loke2smin dvividhaa nishhTaa purA prOktA mayAnagha| jnAnayOgEna sAnkhyAnAm karmayOgena yOgena yOginAm|| 3-3. The pravRitti is set forth by the creation of prajaapatis, who were imported with the knowledge of action, and nivRitti is set forth by the creation of Sanat kumaaras who were imported with the knowledge of contemplation. Both aspects are essential for the prosperity and stability of the world. The first is needed to ensure the socio-economic welfare (abhyudaya) and the second is for spiritual freedom of all beings (niHshreyasa). This is both for individual growth as well as for the stability, welfare and prosperity of the world. Thus, Shankara summarizes the teaching of Gita in terms of Karma yoga as essential ingredient to develop the human faculty for Jnaana yoga. Karma yOga involves the five-fold duties (panca mayA yagnas) ordained by the Vedas, which purifies the mind for jnAna yOga. JnAna yOga helps to acquire jnAna which helps to cross the thresholds of samsAra, that is to nirvaNa or liberation. Thus, pravRitti to nivRitti to mOksha is the path emphasized in Gita. Bhakti is the essential ingredient needed for the success in each path. Bhakti, pure love or devotion, involves complete surrenderance to the Lord or prapatti or sharaNAgati. In the path of pravRitti or KarmayOga, it manifests as unconditional offering of all actions to the Lord or kainkaraya bhaava or Iswaraarpita bhaava, and accepting the results with prasAda buddhi or blessings from the Lord. In the path of nivRitti or path of contemplation, Bhakti manifests as unconditional surrenderance of the ego at the alter of the truth, in the awakening of the knowledge of the unity with the totality. Goal of a Human Life: Pursuit of happiness seems to be the fundamental goal of all living beings. Hence either it is pravRitti or nivRitti, what one is seeking for is the absolute uninterrupted happiness. Hence, whether he is religions or irreligious, whether he is Hindu or non-Hindu, whether he is young or old, whether he is married (grahastha), bachelor or sannyaasi, what one is seeking for is not the Lord, not the soul, not moksha, but absolute eternal happiness. Happiness is not an object nor does it come with any object. It is a state of mind that is contended, with no more wanting or no more desiring mind, which feels adequate with itself. Such moments of happiness are achieved momentarily whenever a desire is fulfilled. A desire is an expression of feeling of inadequacy. Fulfillment of desire eliminates that inadequacy at lease momentarily until another desire props up in the mind. One cannot reach adequacy and thus happiness, by fulfilling the desires, since fulfillment of desires only broods more desires, like pouring gasoline to putout the fire. Hence, it is said in manusmRiti sarvam paravasham duHkham sarvam Atmavasham sukham| yetat vidyAt samAsena lakshaNam sukhaduHkhayOH|| Any dependence on other than oneself is sorrow and any dependence on oneself is happiness. Know that this in brief is the definition for happiness and sorrow. Liberation or mOksha or nirvANa, in brief, is freedom from dependence. Any freedom or mOksha that makes one to depend on something other than oneself is only another form of bondage. Longing for freedom is an inborn desire. Search for happiness is also an in born pursuit. When one goes after something, be it wealth, power, sensuous pleasure, etc, or one goes away from or avoids or gets rid of things, in both cases one is only after happiness or freedom. Every pursuit of human being is dictated by his likes and dislikes or raga-dweshas, which propel him to go after a thing or to get rid of a thing. His happiness depends on the fulfillment of his desires or likes and dislikes or vAsanas. Hence as long as he depends on his likes and dislikes for him to be happy, he is not free. Any fulfillment of his likes and dislikes only reinforces his likes and dislikes and enslaves him further. It is like getting happiness by drinking alcohol or taking drugs. Hence, any dependence on fulfillment of his likes and dislikes for his happiness is only slavery. Freedom from dependence on his likes and dislikes then becomes a gate way for his mOksha or liberation. One cannot easily get rid of one’s likes and dislikes nor one can reach fullness by fulfilling his likes and dislikes. Thus, a human being is caught up in a whirlpool of desire – actions – desires giving rise to birth-action-birth (janam to karma to janma), an unending cycle. There cannot be any freedom until and unless one is free from the onslaught of ones likes and dislikes. Krishna teaches yoga of action and yoga of knowledge to free oneself from the pressure of these two, which He calls as two great enemies for a human being. Freedom is freedom from limitations. Any limitation makes one to be dependent and not independent. It can be at the body level or mind level or intellect level. A sense of limitation causes a feeling of inadequacy, which propels the mind to go after objects. By gaining objects or getting rid of objects one wants to get rid of the sense of limitation. However, a state of limitlessness cannot be reached by adding or subtracting finite things or objects. Yet, a state of limitlessness alone is state of absolute inexhaustible happiness that one wants to be (anantameva aanandaH), while a limited human being cannot gain limitlessness by adding any limited things or beings. In fact, a limited human being can never attain limitlessness or infiniteness, yet the longing for limitlessness or happiness is in born and universal. We are caught up with dichotomy; we cannot stop longing for limitlessness and we cannot gain limitlessness. Vedanta comes to our rescue to teach us that we are that what we are seeking for. Happiness that we seek comes from our own nature since we are by nature limitless that we want to be. Limited can never become unlimited. If we are already unlimited then what makes us to be longing for limitlessness? If we assume that we are limited not knowing that we are unlimited then there is search for unlimited. Ignorance of our true nature is our fundamental problem and only solution to the problem is to understand the problem in correct perspective and recognize our true nature. MOksha or liberation is therefore not gaining something since infinite cannot be gained, not going somewhere since infinite cannot be reached, but by recognizing our true identity. Vedanta declares that our true nature is sat-chit-ananda – which is existence-consciousness-limitless. These are not attributes but very essence, since sat is chit and chit is sat which is limitless and limitless is ‘I’. Hence, freedom is not something to gain but recognition of our fundamental nature. Bondage is only due to misunderstanding or mistaking ourselves to be this unconscious, limited inert object such as body, mind or intellect. Here limitlessness is infiniteness in absolute sense which can only be one without a second, ekam eva advitiiyam, hence Brahman. ayam aatma brahma, that this self that I am is Brahman, one without a second, is the declaration by the shruti. This understanding of our true nature is not readily accepted due to our deep-rooted preconceived notions about ourselves that we are limited time-wise, space-wise and object-wise and thus we take our selves to be mortal, ignorant and unhappy. This understanding forms the basis for the teaching of Bhagavad Gita by the Lord to not only set Arjuna right but also the whole humanity. Gita forms a manual of how to claim our immortality that we are. A sage screams out in the Upanishad addressing us:Shrunvantu vishhvE amRitasya putraH – ‘Listen you all, the sons of immortality’ – implying that immortality is our birthright. We are not sinners as the other religions call us since divinity is our birthright. This teaching can sink in only when our minds are free from preconceived notions about ourselves. That is, it is free from the pressures of likes and dislikes, since they are the outgrowth of our presumed limitations. Hence karma yOga is taught to purify the mind from the pressure of the vAsanas and to make the mind qualify for jnAna yOga. jnAna yOga is then taught to gain the knowledge of our true nature. Hari Om! Sadananda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2008 Report Share Posted August 7, 2008 Namaste dear Sri Balagopal: Thanks for your suggestion to the members on the ethics for posting. The message of verse 15 of chapter 17 is quite relevent. I am quoting the verse along with some additional comments: Chapter 17, Verse 15 Anudwegakaram vaakyam satyam priyahitam cha yat; Swaadhyaayaabhyasanam chaiva vaangmayam tapa uchyate. Translation: Speech which causes no excitement and is truthful, pleasant and beneficial, the practice of the study of the Vedas, are called austerity of speech. Commentary by Swami Sivananda: It is said in the Manu Smriti: " One should speak what is true; one should speak what is pleasant; one should not speak what is true if it is not pleasant, nor what is pleasant if it is false. This is the ancient Dharma " . To be an austerity speech should combine all the attributes mentioned in the above verse. Here is the Sanskrit verse that summarizes the rule for communication and it is good for speaking, listening and writing. (Remember the 3 monkeys often referred – one shutting the eyes, one closing the mouth and the last covering the ears!) Sathyam Bruyath (speak the Truth) Priyam Bruyath (speak sweetly and courteously) Na Bruyath Sathyamapriyam (never utter the truth that causes unpleasantness) The first rule declares the moral value, the second states the social value and last rule expresses the spiritual value. with my warmest regards, Ram Chandran Note: The moderation decisions are made by a board of moderators and the board tried their level best to be impartial. If any member has complaints/suggestions please send an email to advaitins. advaitin , balagopal ramakrishnan <rbalpal wrote: > > HARI AUM > Â > The only thing the moderators need to ensure is to maintain an atmosphere where one can post without any fear or favour. Let 'Gita' verse 17/15Â be the guiding principle while making any post. > Â > Regards > Â > Balagopal > Â > NARAYANA NARAYANA NARAYANA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 10, 2008 Report Share Posted August 10, 2008 advaitin , kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada wrote: Namaste Satsanghis, I am very happy that the Gita Satsangh will start in a couple of weeks. In preparation for the Chapter 12 which starts in two weeks, I am posting some of the beautiful articles by our respected members, which helped me understand many concepts on Bhakti. 1. Shri Sada-ji explains Bhakti advaitin/message/39438 2. Shri Sastri-ji's exposition of Bhakti advaitin/message/39444 advaitin/message/39459 The same also seems to be available in his home page: http://www.geocities.com/snsastri/glimpses.html#_Toc81054573 3. Professor-ji's explanation of bhakti: http://www.geocities.com/profvk/livehappily_8.html (There was an Advaita-bhakti series. Can someone kindly post links on that?) I suggest that Satsanghis read the above posts and post their thoughts to the group. Also would be useful if members post their expectations from the Satsangh. I am sure the moderators would accept any good ones. Here are a couple of my suggestions I would like to be implemented, if possible. 1. The coming chapters (especially at the beginning of chapter 13) are quite crucial in understanding the dialectics of Shri Adi Shankara's arguments in his Gita Bhashya. I think this would be appropriate for this group if the Satsangh pauses at those verses, while the learned members of the group to explain the argument details. (For example, when the Satsangh reaches verse 13.2, I would prefer the Satsangh to stop and explain the Kshetrajna bhashyam.) 2. Gita being a seminal book for Vedanta, many seers have written commentaries. So, I would suggest that volunteers keep reading many of the Gita translations that are relevant to Advaita and post the sections that they think are relevant. (After all, we cannot expect Shri Ram Chandran-ji to post all the material.) An example for this is me posting sections of Jnaneshvari in our Chapter 11 Satsangh. Some other suggestions are Madhusudana Saraswati and Ananda Giri. Namaste again, Ramakrishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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