karma and human birth

[Guest guest]

Dear all,

Pranams

even though the following 2 questions are not strictly

about Vedanta I hope that it is allright to ask them here. They are about karma and

janmas.

1. Animals cannot gain punya papa because they do not

have free will.

Still when I look at animals lives, they seem to be

quite different in quality. There are free roaming animals in an environment

full of possibilities for shelter, food and procreation. On the other hand

there are tortured animals, chained up their whole life in dark dirty rooms. Or

there are animals being rescued which would have starved otherwise. Etc. How do

these differences come about if not by karma? Does it mean that human birth has

to constantly mix with animal birth?

My idea so far has been that in general all beings

develop from animal births to human births, sometimes having to go backwards

but not back and forth all the time.

2. To be blessed with a human birth a certain mixture of

punya papa is needed. How then can a being who has never been born as a human

being before (but only as animal or deva) ever gain this punya papa and with it

a human birth, when he is not able to gain punya papa at all?

 

Please be so kind to point out to me where my thinking

falls short.

Om shanti

Sitara

[Guest guest]

Sitaraji - PraNAms

 

Here is my understanding.

 

1. Anatomical evolution, starting from ameba to human beings, is different from

spiritual evolution.

 

2. According to Vedanta - creation-sustenance-dissolution are cyclic processes

with no beginning since it is a cycle.

 

3. The cause for the birth in a particular upaadhi - be it an animal or human

being or celestial beings - is due to previous karmas (sanchita) of which those

that are predominate and are ready to germinate would determine the womb into

which the jiiva as to take the birth. Hence what type of birth depends on the

prarabda karma.

 

4. There are said to be 820000+ types of live forms that jiiva can take - some

of them are those you mentioned.

 

5. Just as for a human being, the predominate karma(s) would dictate his birth,

so is for any animal.

 

6. Human being is given an intellect and with the gift is decision to make a

choice - to do, not to do and to do differently, in spite of the pressure of the

vaasanaas. All animal, since choice is limied and determined by insticts that

the animal than by intellectual choice, only exhause vaasanas - just as for a

human being in a dream experiences where viveka is at its minimum.

 

Hence it is said for a human - what you have is praarabda and what you do with

what you have is purushArtha. - The choice is yours - including helping the

animal caught up in a cage because of its praarabda or shoot and kill an

innocent animal for a sport or to fill ones belly.

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

 

 

-------------

Dear all,

Pranams

even though the following 2 questions are not strictly about Vedanta I hope that

it is allright to ask them here. They are about karma and janmas.

1. Animals cannot gain punya papa because they do not have free will.

Still when I look at animals lives, they seem to be quite different in quality.

There are free roaming animals in an environment full of possibilities for

shelter, food and procreation. On the other hand there are tortured animals,

chained up their whole life in dark dirty rooms. Or there are animals being

rescued which would have starved otherwise. Etc. How do these differences come

about if not by karma? Does it mean that human birth has to constantly mix with

animal birth?

My idea so far has been that in general all beings develop from animal births to

human births, sometimes having to go backwards but not back and forth all the

time.

 

2. To be blessed with a human birth a certain mixture of punya papa is needed.

How then can a being who has never been born as a human being before (but only

as animal or deva) ever gain this punya papa and with it a human birth, when he

is not able to gain punya papa at all?

 

Please be so kind to point out to me where my thinking falls short.

 

Om shanti

  Sitara

[Guest guest]

" Sitara " <smitali17 wrote:

>

> Please be so kind to point out to me where my thinking falls short.

>

 

Sitaraji-ji, namaste!

 

One day a hindu swami was asked by a westerner: " Could you explain to

me about that reincarnation theory that you hindus believe in? "

The swamiji replied: " Who told you that we believe in reicarnation?

What we really believe is that there is no birth! "

 

Hurry Home (to the eternal and all pervading present!)

 

Yours, today with a smile,

dein zwillingsbruther

Mouna

[Guest guest]

Hello, >>2. To be blessed with a human birth a certain mixture of

punya papa is needed. How then can a being who has >>never been born as a human

being before (but only as animal or deva) ever gain this punya papa and with it

a >>human birth, when he is not able to gain punya papa at all?Animals or devas or human beings. There is no reason to be born without any samskaras. (How the first samskara originated is anybody's guess only) Given this, where is the mixture of good and bad (paapa and punya) samskaras?

If at all we accept these paapa and punya, we can easily accept the mixture also. Therefore, it is said in the scriptures that this creation is anaadi (without any beginning) but saanta (with end).prakrtim purusham chaiva viddhi anaadi ubhavapi (Bhagavad Gita)

That is why great people say that as until one dreams he cannot understand it as dream and so until one is in this world, he cannot understand where from he has come or what he is of. This is what I understand. Your question cannot be answered otherwise.

With regards,Anupam.

[Guest guest]

Thank you to all, who offered their insights to my questions.

 

I realize that the cyclical vision of Vedanta is a key. Also, I was

definitely too much under the influence of the anatomical evolution

theory.

And good to leave some space for mystery, I guess, as Anupam pointed

out.

The video that Balagopalji recommended certainly has a lot to offer. I

have to listen to it more often though as the sound quality seems to be

not very good.

 

Om shanti!

Sitara