Happy Birthday - Decenial Celebrations - Request to Greet the Group

[Guest guest]

Pranams to all members of this wonderful group,there is not much to say after Ramakrishnajis and Mounajis birthday posts.They expressed to the point what I feel, too. Let me just add why I love this group so much. Isn't it perfect on every level? purnamada purnamidampurnat purnamudatchyatepurnasya purnamadayaPurname vavashishyate.Om shanti, shanti, shanti Sitaraadvaitin , "Ramakrishna Upadrasta" <uramakrishna wrote:>> praNAms to all Advaitins,> > >> > 'ADVAITIN' Happy Birthday to Advaitin Group. Now we are in Decenial > > Celebrations of our group. Our group took birth on 31st August 1998. > > I wish the group a very happy birthday, with wishes for ensuring > fruitful discussions in many more years to come.> > A sincere thanks to the founding members of the group (both current > and past members) who conceived the idea of such a wonderful place> in the web.> > A sincere thanks to the moderators of the group (both current and past),> who have ensured that good and fruitful discussion happens in the group> all the time. > > Also, a sincere thanks to all the learned members of the group (both > current and past) who have been stellar examples of communicating > the truth of Advaita.> > Thanks, it has been a wonderful learning experience.> > > You are requested to join in these celebrations by sending a > > small message of your interesting word, sentence or sloka.> > I quote verse 10.9 from Bhagavad Gita, which is when Lord Krishna> sets the tone for an ideal Satsangh.> > mach{}chittaa madgatapraaNaa bodhayantaH parasparam.h .> kathayantashcha maa.n nitya.n tushhyanti cha ramanti cha .. 10\.9..> > With minds fixed on Me, with lives dedicated to Me, enlightening each other, > and always speaking of Me, they derive satisfaction and rejoice.> > Note that Lord Krishna uses the words tushhyanti and ramanti in the > above verse. Their meaning is worth meditating, as this shloka is > followed by the most unique promise by Lord Krishna: That He will give > His devotees the proper knowledge to attain Him.> > praNAms to all Advaitins,> Ramakrishna>

[Guest guest]

PraNams to all members of this list.

 

While I join all the members in congratulating the list serve, which maintained

its integrity with the free flow of knowledge, I have to express my deep

gratitude to Shree Ram Chandranji, who single handedly initiated and established

the mechanics to insure that the list serve functions as it was intended. Shree

Sunderji and Shree Madhavaji have joined and provided an unending methodology of

organizing the files so that the list serve helps not only the on-line

discussers but makes it convenient for new members to tap the information on

line. Various chief moderators have served, bringing in their own way the

improvements to the list serve and the mechanics of operation. Many silent

readers chose to remain silent readers either due to lack of time or due to fear

of participation.

 

This list serve is meant for learning from each other. Once in a way some

jarring notes will come. But as Swami Vivekanandaji said in his Chicago thanking

speech, these notes help to sharpen the list serve with renewed enthusiasm to

learn. Moderators kept themselves in a low profile only interfering when the

discussion went too far outside the scope or crossed the limits of respectable

communication.

 

From my own experience, I learned a lot from many members of the group. Although

I tend to type quickly violating many language rules, many of the posts forced

me study and think deeply. Without this list serve, I would not have forced

myself to study that much. I found by writing the ideas my understanding also

gets crystallized and also will provide an open scrutiny for learned members to

make sure that my understanding is correct. The example is the current

discussion on Jiivan mukta. We are thankful to Shree Nairji, Shree Bhaskarji and

Shree Madhavaji for keeping the topic with their understanding. Because of them

we are forced to think and understand the basic concepts of Advaita Vedanta.

Irrespective of whether we agree with them or not or they agree with us or not,

the discussion is helping all of us to think deeply and to ascertain to the best

of our knowledge the fundamental principles. I only wished we could remove the

personality issues and

focus only on the topic - but it is difficult but we try.

 

From my own perspective, I am becoming more and more a vaishnavate to recognize

the beauty in what they call as carama sloka -

 

sarva-dharman parityajya

mam ekam sharanam vraja |

aham tvam sarva-papebhyo

moksayisyami ma sucah ||

 

 

The more I dwell on it the more I see the efficacy of the method and the

implication of the surrenderance - the surrenderance becoming more and more

meaningful with the knowledge of what it involves. Surrenderance can only occur

once since one cannot surrender himself for the second time, unless he has not

surrendered in the first time.

 

I see the purpose of this list serve only to do that.

 

I will end with an experience I had with my Gurudev Swami Chinmayanandaji.

 

This was the last camp that he conducted before he departed and it was in

Washington D.C. By default, I was in charge of the camp. The youth coordinator

had some problems with the teenage camp-kids that registered for the youth camp,

as they were not following the dress codes and he felt that Swamiji should

address the youth insisting that they follow the rules in terms of dress code.

Since he was afraid to discuss this with swamiji, he wanted me to be present the

case- so we both went to seem him in his room. Swamiji knew that we came for

some purpose - He looked at us to know what we want. Since the youth coordinator

was afraid to talk, I gave the back ground to swamiji and was telling him that

he should address the youth in the class and instruct them to follow proper

dress code etc.

 

Swamiji just listed until I stopped talking, and looked at me deep into my eyes

and said - Is that all you have learned, while being with me for so many years?

- I was baffled and not knowing if I have said something inappropriate - just

kept looking at him with questionable face. The next question he posed - jolted

me to the core.

 

He said - do you really think I am the one who talks there while sitting on the

stage in front of the podium? to follow your instructions of what to say and

what not to say?

 

I immediately realized my problem and got up on my feet and went to him and

prostrated flat on his feet. His mood immediately changed - He smiled and said -

let us see what happens! That was his last lession about jiivan mukta lakshana,

even as he was departing from this abode.

 

In recapitulating this incident, I am reminded of the above carama sloka.

 

Let us surrender to His divine wisdom and let that wisdom flow through this

beautiful list serve.

 

With my praNAms to all

 

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

[Guest guest]

advaitin , Sri Sadaji wrote:

>

> Many silent readers chose to remain silent readers either due to

> lack of time or due to fear of participation.

>

> This list serve is meant for learning from each other. Once in a

> way some jarring notes will come. But as Swami Vivekanandaji said

> in his Chicago thanking speech, these notes help to sharpen the

> list serve with renewed enthusiasm to learn.

>

> I will end with an experience I had with my Gurudev Swami

> Chinmayanandaji.

> .....

> Swamiji just listened until I stopped talking, and looked at me

> deep into my eyes and said - Is that all you have learned, while

> being with me for so many years? - I was baffled and not knowing

> if I have said something inappropriate - just kept looking at him

> with questionable face. The next question he posed - jolted me to

> the core.

>

> He said - do you really think I am the one who talks there while

> sitting on the stage in front of the podium? to follow your

> instructions of what to say and what not to say?

> ..

> In recapitulating this incident, I am reminded of the above carama

> sloka. Let us surrender to His divine wisdom and let that wisdom

> flow through this beautiful list serve.

 

Hari OM and Pranams.

 

Firstly, grateful and joyful greetings on reaching new dicenial

milestone of service by this group.

 

Also, if there are jarring notes, be they so, as it is all their

worth that facilitated sharing of that inspiring episode by

Sadaji. Sadaji, please, kindly share any such anecdotes that

touched you. In fact I find such anecdotes more precious than even

scriptures. Why? Because the scriptures are available else where,

but such impressionable events cannot be found any where. Only the

hearts that witnessed them have to share it with others. Or else,

the light that brightened the witnessed hearts- glows, grows and

even goes with those hearts without reaching next generations.

 

Instead of saying thank God we have Gita, in a way it seems,

thank Arjuna and his confusions without which no Gita would have

been possible!

 

Sometimes we may choose to be silent, neither out of fear nor lack

of time, but it may just be more interesting to watch and learn.

 

Gandhiji said his life was his message. May be, our thoughts,

feelings, words- the fabric of our very lives are the greatest

messages than any particular discussion 'threads' or writings.

 

Hari OM!

----------------------------

-Srinivas

[Guest guest]

dear sada-ji ,

 

you said

 

> From my own perspective, I am becoming more and more a vaishnavate

to recognize the beauty in what they call as carama sloka -

>

> sarva-dharman parityajya

> mam ekam sharanam vraja |

> aham tvam sarva-papebhyo

> moksayisyami ma sucah ||

>

>

> The more I dwell on it the more I see the efficacy of the method

and the implication of the surrenderance - the surrenderance

becoming more and more meaningful with the knowledge of what it

involves. Surrenderance can only occur once since one cannot

surrender himself for the second time, unless he has not surrendered

in the first time.

 

 

may i ask you to expand on surrenderance ? unfortunately , my

sankrit is still rudimentary and i struggle with the meaning .

 

the subject of surrender is fascinating and i'm discovering that

very personally and would be very grateful if you could clarify the

point about the meaningfulness of the method ? and why can surrender

occur only once ?

 

thanks

 

-raji

 

advaitin , kuntimaddi sadananda

<kuntimaddisada wrote:

>

> PraNams to all members of this list.

>

> While I join all the members in congratulating the list serve,

which maintained its integrity with the free flow of knowledge, I

have to express my deep gratitude to Shree Ram Chandranji, who

single handedly initiated and established the mechanics to insure

that the list serve functions as it was intended. Shree Sunderji and

Shree Madhavaji have joined and provided an unending methodology of

organizing the files so that the list serve helps not only the on-

line discussers but makes it convenient for new members to tap the

information on line. Various chief moderators have served, bringing

in their own way the improvements to the list serve and the

mechanics of operation. Many silent readers chose to remain silent

readers either due to lack of time or due to fear of participation.

>

> This list serve is meant for learning from each other. Once in a

way some jarring notes will come. But as Swami Vivekanandaji said in

his Chicago thanking speech, these notes help to sharpen the list

serve with renewed enthusiasm to learn. Moderators kept themselves

in a low profile only interfering when the discussion went too far

outside the scope or crossed the limits of respectable

communication.

>

> From my own experience, I learned a lot from many members of the

group. Although I tend to type quickly violating many language

rules, many of the posts forced me study and think deeply. Without

this list serve, I would not have forced myself to study that much.

I found by writing the ideas my understanding also gets crystallized

and also will provide an open scrutiny for learned members to make

sure that my understanding is correct. The example is the current

discussion on Jiivan mukta. We are thankful to Shree Nairji, Shree

Bhaskarji and Shree Madhavaji for keeping the topic with their

understanding. Because of them we are forced to think and understand

the basic concepts of Advaita Vedanta. Irrespective of whether we

agree with them or not or they agree with us or not, the discussion

is helping all of us to think deeply and to ascertain to the best of

our knowledge the fundamental principles. I only wished we could

remove the personality issues and

> focus only on the topic - but it is difficult but we try.

>

> From my own perspective, I am becoming more and more a vaishnavate

to recognize the beauty in what they call as carama sloka -

>

> sarva-dharman parityajya

> mam ekam sharanam vraja |

> aham tvam sarva-papebhyo

> moksayisyami ma sucah ||

>

>

> The more I dwell on it the more I see the efficacy of the method

and the implication of the surrenderance - the surrenderance

becoming more and more meaningful with the knowledge of what it

involves. Surrenderance can only occur once since one cannot

surrender himself for the second time, unless he has not surrendered

in the first time.

>

> I see the purpose of this list serve only to do that.

>

> I will end with an experience I had with my Gurudev Swami

Chinmayanandaji.

>

> This was the last camp that he conducted before he departed and it

was in Washington D.C. By default, I was in charge of the camp. The

youth coordinator had some problems with the teenage camp-kids that

registered for the youth camp, as they were not following the dress

codes and he felt that Swamiji should address the youth insisting

that they follow the rules in terms of dress code. Since he was

afraid to discuss this with swamiji, he wanted me to be present the

case- so we both went to seem him in his room. Swamiji knew that we

came for some purpose - He looked at us to know what we want. Since

the youth coordinator was afraid to talk, I gave the back ground to

swamiji and was telling him that he should address the youth in the

class and instruct them to follow proper dress code etc.

>

> Swamiji just listed until I stopped talking, and looked at me deep

into my eyes and said - Is that all you have learned, while being

with me for so many years? - I was baffled and not knowing if I have

said something inappropriate - just kept looking at him with

questionable face. The next question he posed - jolted me to the

core.

>

> He said - do you really think I am the one who talks there while

sitting on the stage in front of the podium? to follow your

instructions of what to say and what not to say?

>

> I immediately realized my problem and got up on my feet and went

to him and prostrated flat on his feet. His mood immediately

changed - He smiled and said - let us see what happens! That was his

last lession about jiivan mukta lakshana, even as he was departing

from this abode.

>

> In recapitulating this incident, I am reminded of the above carama

sloka.

>

> Let us surrender to His divine wisdom and let that wisdom flow

through this beautiful list serve.

>

> With my praNAms to all

>

>

> Hari Om!

> Sadananda

>

[Guest guest]

sada-ji ,

 

dakshinamurthy himself spoke to me through you . clearly ,

chinmayananda-ji's message to you has been played out with a

different cast of actors !

 

i cannot thank you enough

 

-raji

 

 

 

advaitin , kuntimaddi sadananda

<kuntimaddisada wrote:

>

>

> --- On Tue, 9/2/08, rajalakshmi13 <rajalakshmi.iyer wrote:

>

> may i ask you to expand on surrenderance ? unfortunately , my

> sankrit is still rudimentary and i struggle with the meaning .

>

> the subject of surrender is fascinating and i'm discovering that

> very personally and would be very grateful if you could clarify

the

> point about the meaningfulness of the method ? and why can

surrender

> occur only once ?

> ----------------

>

> Raji - My PraNAms

>

> You have asked a loaded question. Prof. VK has provided the

discussion of the above sloka and its implications.

>

> Do not worry about Sanskrit and the deeper meaning of that sloka -

let me dwell on what a surrender means and how it can be done.

>

> In simple terms when we love something, we automatically surrender

ourselves to that object of love. Love demands sacrifice -

ultimately the sacrifice involves - I and I want - the ego that

arises in all our doings propelled by our desires - I and I want.

>

> When I love someone, I surrender at least temporarily, the I and I

want, and I only want to do that what the one I love wants - I am

ready to undergo any amount of physical, mental and intellectual

agony - sacrificing all my comforts and desires - to please the

person that I love. I love my child so much that in spite of my back

pain or this pain, I get up and do lovingly what she needs or wants -

that is love. In the love one scarifies ones own ego. In fact love

demands that sacrifice.

>

> Please watch the Ramanand Sagar's Ramayana where Bharata goes to

bring back Rama from forest. He feels his bhakti for Rama is so

supreme that it is grater than the duty bound Rama. The scene was

beautifully taken. I watch that many times. Everyone gets carried

away by the love of Bharata and did not know what is right and what

is wrong - that includes even the sage VashiShTa. Janaka who came at

that time was asked to solve the problem - Love vs. Dharma - as the

carama sloka deals with.

>

> Please watch that moving scene. My words cannot describe it since

tears come out even when I think of that scene. Janaka declares

that Bharata's love is superior to Rama's Dharma. Even Lord has to

bend his dharma to accommodate the love. Bharata was happy to hear

that. He thought he won and Rama will be returning back to Ayodhya.

But Janaka put a break - he said there are rules for the love. Love

does not demand with I and I want- it only demands his own

surrenderance of I and I want at the alter of love. Janaka

instructs Bharata - If you love Rama, go and ask what Rama wants you

to do, but not demanding what Rama has to do since you love him.

>

> That, Raji, is the meaning of surrenderance.

>

> Here love towards the higher is called Bhakti.

>

> In the article I wrote sometime back on Bhakti (not sure the

message no.) based on Swami Paramarthanandaji talk - mentioned three

definitions for the Iswara.

>

> First definition - jagat kartaa IswaraH - God is the creator of

the universe. - That is how all the religions define. If one asks

why did He create and why me? Then the next definition is provided.

>

> Jagat kaaraNam IswaraH - He is not only the intelligent cause as

the above definition says, he is also the material cause for the

universe. That means he is the creation too. Everything that I see,

I touch, I smell, I taste and I hear - is nothing But He alone -

This turth he declares in the 7th ch of Giita-

bhuumiraaponalovaayuH ... All the panca bhuutaas and all the

products of that is my lower nature only.

>

> Recognition of this, is Bhakti and Jnaana too. Now God is not just

in the temple, I have to see him in everything that I transact

with. That vision requires surrenderance of my notion of the world

with all the multitudes of differences - but to see that oneness

that pervades in all names and forms.

>

> Here understanding is surrenderance - where I am surrendering the

notion of differences to see the unity among the differences. It

requires an integrated mind than the mind that differentiates. With

reference to the current discussion, it is that mind the jiivan

mukta will have - That requires complete surrenderance at His alter

to see him in everything and everywhere - that is the viswaruupa

darshana that Krishna discusses in the Ch. 11. It is not Arjuna had

the viswaruupa darshana - Krishna wants us to have and has given

that divya kshakshus or divine vision, but we have to open them.

Closing our eyes and complain that I cannot see - borders to absence

of commonsense.

>

> Raji, seeing Him everywhere is surrenderance and that is true love

since love involves sacrifice - where I am sacrificing all my

misconceptions about the world and the things around the world. I

have to start seeing the Lord in all things that I see- starting

from my own body, in my wife or husband, in my kith and kin, in the

little insects that are crawling on the floor and in the plants and

the trees, in the mud and in the garbage, in the flowers in the

fruits - in the books, in the children, in the adults, in the people

who love and even in the people I hate!

>

> In that vision, all your negative notions about the world and the

people unceremoniously disappear - you do not need to do any effort -

the moment you see Him, there cannot be any negative tendencies in

the mind. Those get automatically surrendered.

>

> It is difficult to have that viswaruupa darshana - if not, all the

time. Hence Krishna says - start now and practice this every day

and more times as you remember - Krishna emphasizes two aspects -

abhyaasa and viaraagya - Practice and giving up the wrong

attachments - that involves I and I want.

>

> Then the third definition of God follows which Prof. VK has

discussed in the reference provided. -

>

> God is not all this and that - but God is sarva adhiShTaanam

IswaraH - which in the 7th ch. after bhuumiraapo sloka - he says -

apareyam .. There is a higher nature of mine that is beyond the

names and forms that you see - I am the very substantive of the

whole universe - I support this universe as unmanifested form - all

being rise in me sustained by me and go back into me - they are not

me but they are in me -I am in all of them yet, I am beyond all of

them - beyond all names and forms - I am the very existence and

consciousness that is eternal and infinite and - that you are Raji.

That recognition is pure knowledge where I am beyond anything yet

includes everything. The bhakti culminates with complete dissolution

of even bhakta. There nothing but HIM alone or I alone - either way

it is the same hence Krishna says in the 6th Ch.

>

> Yo mam pasyati sarvatra, sarvanca mayi pasyati - the one who sees

Me everywhere and every thing in me - He has realized. Also before

that sloka - sarva bhuutastam aatmaanam sarva bhuutanica aatmani -

who sees his-self in all, and all in his-self - he alone sees or

understands. Thus jnaana and bhakti culminate in that knowledge -

where God is defined as

> sarvaadhiShTaanam IswaraH. He is the substantive for all this

universe that includes the seer and seen.

>

> That vision, Raji, is the ultimate surrenderance - that can occur

only once since that is knowledge. Once you have the knowledge -

you do not become ignorant again. Hence Krishna says once you have

reached Me there is no return back. yat gatvaa na nivartante tat

dhaama paramam mama - No more you will be ignorant.

>

> This is the meaning of SharaNaagati - or prapatti and

Bharanyaasam - although the ultimate goal is differently presented

in VishiShTaadvatia -where for them the surrenderance stops at the

second level where there is always sheSha-sheShi bhaava - he is the

master and I am the servant - that understanding remains even in

moksha.

>

> Now what does all this means from the spiritual practice.

>

> 1. First have an iShTa devata - where you can express your love of

devotion in the divine form that you can appreciate the Lord.

>

> 2. Have an alter - a special place where you can sit in front of

him and think of him only and nothing else.

>

> 3. Keep a specific time where you can be with him - regularity and

discipline of the mind is an essential ingredients.

>

> 4. You can listen to bhakti songs and the things that remind your

mind His divine presence.

>

> 5. If you cannot do any of these - at least think of Him first

thing in the morning and last thing in the night -

>

> 6. The more you think of him, the more you get attached to Him and

the attachment to Him gets you detached to the superficial entities

that involve I and I want. The surrenderance starts as the love

increases.

>

> 7. Move to the second stage where you are not seeing Him alone in

the puja room or in the temple but everywhere else to the degree

that you can. This is the time your compassion for the fellow beings

starts - since they are expression of his divine love only. You

cannot but help the needy and suffering. I and I want goes down with

He and He wants grows up - since He is the entire totality - what

ever you do will be helpful to the totality since you want to please

Him. Sat sangatve nissangatvam means - the attachment to the higher

gets you detachment to the lower.

>

> 8. The final surrenderance comes with knowledge of clear

understanding of His nature - where the study of the scriptures and

contemplation on their meaning helps.

>

> This Raji - is all about surrenderance - that is the essence of

the carama sloka as I understand and tried to implement.

>

> Hope this helps.

>

>

> Hari Om!

> Sadananda

>