Guest guest Posted October 4, 2008 Report Share Posted October 4, 2008 Namaste Sadaji. I was away on holiday. Hence, this delay. I don't want to go into hair-splitting arguments. I didn't deny that we have choice. Nobody would do that because choice is a glaring fact. What I meant (have always meant) is that that choice is just seeming in ultimate analysis. We need not, therefore, take it for granted. We have no right to beat our chest and gloat over it. Knowing that the Lord is the one acting through us and making us select the right choice is the best attitude then for a devotee, notwithstanding the faboulous interpretations of our teachers concerning free-will. That is knowledge. So, the surrender here is not without knowledge as you make it out to be. Even 'my surrender' is His action through me! Scholarship in prastAnatrayI, the various bhAshyAs, Sanskrit grammar, allegiance to sampradAya etc. can't bring about such surrender unless He Wills. Why then waste time talking about a 'will' with a small 'w'? I think Maniji has expressed this very well in his 41988. I hope this answers Shri Nagulapulli also. Best regards. Madathil Nair __________________ advaitin , kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada wrote: > Can you examine the question you posed? The first statement inherently assumes that we have choice to assume or not assume - is it not? Am I free to assume or not to assume that we have freedom to choose! If we do not have freedom to choose then we have no freedom to assume or not to assume or assume differently. Then the so called even the so-called arrogance that expresses out is part of the system beyond my assumption.I am not responsible for the expressed arrogance also - since I did not have any choice what so ever in anything. Of course, are you exercising your choice to state that I am arrogant in claiming to have a choice! Or are you also following a choiceless choice in the statements you made. Please think it over. Vyavhahaara becomes pale if no one has any choice in vyavahaara. > > Now let us look at the second part of your statement. Does one who has placed himself at the Lord's feet - is that placing himself at the feet of the Lord - is it by his choice that he choose not to choose any more and leave it to the Lord to choose from that time one once he has chose to surrender at the feet of the Lord. > > Nairji †" placing oneself †" not verbally but actually †" requires a maturity of the mind to choose! That comes with knowledge. Otherwise we place it everyday without really placing it- tan man sabkuch tera hai! We can place it only once since once we have placed we do have choice to take it back. That can come only with knowledge. > > Nairji - we get into hairy internal inconsistencies. Hence saadhana is by choice only, however limited choice one has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2008 Report Share Posted October 5, 2008 advaitin , " Madathil Rajendran Nair " <madathilnair wrote: > > I didn't deny that we have choice. [...] > We have no right to beat our chest and gloat over it. > > Even 'my surrender' is His action through me! Scholarship in > prastAnatrayI, the various bhAshyAs, Sanskrit grammar, allegiance > to sampradAya etc. can't bring about such surrender unless He > Wills. Why then waste time talking about a 'will' with a small 'w'? Hari OM! May be we like to dramatise things a bit. At least I did not see chest beatings or gloatings by any one about anything here, as yet! I recall in a Buddhistic conference, speaker asked audience, who doesn't exist (Sunya). Apparently, a hand rose! If waker in me truly surrenders to sleep, I wouldn't be there to say " I am sleeping " . And saying " I am sleeping " means I am not. So too, after true and complete surrender, is it even possible to say " my surrender " is His action through me! Of course, we have choice to disagree, and say " my surrender " is His action only through me. Likewise it follows, that even this supposedly wasting time talking about " will " is also His asking and His wasting time through me! Why not? What gives! Surrender seems less of an action, and more of an attitude (bhava). -------------- Hari OM! -Srinivas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2008 Report Share Posted October 5, 2008 THAT YOU FOUND A NEED OR AN URGE TO WRITE SO MUCH ABOUT THIS ISSUE EVEN AFTER MY CLARIFICATION ITSELF IS A SORT OF CHEST BEATING! WE WERE DISCUSSING SURRENDER AND PRESENTING THOUGHTS IN THE SAME WAY AS WE DO ABOUT BRAHMAJNANA. I DIDN'T CLAIM TO HAVE TRULY SURRENDERED. WHAT I STATED IS ONLY MY UNDERSTANDING OF SURRENDER. YOU NEED NOT ACCEPT IT. GOOD BYE. __________________________ advaitin , " Srinivas Nagulapalli " <srini_nagul wrote: > > advaitin , " Madathil Rajendran Nair " > <madathilnair@> wrote: > > > > I didn't deny that we have choice. [...] > > We have no right to beat our chest and gloat over it. > > > > Even 'my surrender' is His action through me! Scholarship in > > prastAnatrayI, the various bhAshyAs, Sanskrit grammar, allegiance > > to sampradAya etc. can't bring about such surrender unless He > > Wills. Why then waste time talking about a 'will' with a small 'w'? > > Hari OM! > May be we like to dramatise things a bit. At least I did not see > chest beatings or gloatings by any one about anything here, as yet! > > I recall in a Buddhistic conference, speaker asked audience, who > doesn't exist (Sunya). Apparently, a hand rose! If waker in me truly > surrenders to sleep, I wouldn't be there to say " I am sleeping " . And > saying " I am sleeping " means I am not. So too, after true and > complete surrender, is it even possible to say " my surrender " is > His action through me! > > Of course, we have choice to disagree, and say " my surrender " is > His action only through me. Likewise it follows, that even this > supposedly wasting time talking about " will " is also His asking > and His wasting time through me! Why not? What gives! > Surrender seems less of an action, and more of an attitude (bhava). > -------------- > Hari OM! > -Srinivas > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 Dear unknown members my name is michael bindel. Currently i reside in Hungary. I am new to your sangha. Due to Grace i am since many years a devotee of SRI RAMANA MAHARSHI and found in Advaita the answer for my burning questions. As i try my best to live accordingly i have the courage to ask this esteemed sangha a simple but important question - at least for this being. How do you live nonduality/advaita in daily life - how do tackle the always arising "conflicts" between your inner belief/knowledge and the socalled daily-reality; living with others, working with others, partnerships etc. Awaiting your reply in His Grace yours sincerely michael bindel Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.7.6/1709 - Release 05/10/2008 9.20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 advaitin , " Michael Bindel " <michael.bindel wrote: > > > How do you live nonduality/advaita in daily life - how do tackle the always arising " conflicts " between your inner belief/knowledge and the socalled daily-reality; living with others, working with others, partnerships etc. > > Awaiting your reply > > > in His Grace > > > yours sincerely > > michael bindel > Namaste Michael-ji Please have a look at the postings on the thread " Advaitic Living " on this list during October 2006. PraNAms to all advaitins. profvk > > > > -- ---------- > > > > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.7.6/1709 - Release Date: 05/10/2008 9.20 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 My dear Shri Michael Bindel, I don't want to put you off. Let us consider your question bit by bit: You asked: _________ " How do you live nonduality/advaita in daily life - how do tackle the always arising " conflicts " between your inner belief/knowledge and the socalled daily-reality; living with others, working with others, partnerships etc. " ___________ Non-duality is your being. It cannot be lived. When someone says " I am living my life happily " , he/she supposes himself/herself to be an entity altogether separate from the life being lived. The living occurs through changing situations separated by space/time during which the supposed entity also changes. The tragedy is that it dies miserably at the end. Non-duality is immortality. Death, even the thought of it, dares not enter there; there are no conflicts, inner or outer beliefs and a so- called daily-reality there. There are no others too because all are you, there is no working because there is nothing to work on or with. There are no partnerships because you are in absolute partnership with yourself as a non-dual being. I should, therefore, assume that your question belongs to the realm en route non-duality. How to live that life en-route is well detailed in BG Chapter 2. In a nutshell, it entails non-binding action with the knowledge that the Lord is the result-giver. You need to perform legitimate dhArmic actions that are demanded of and by your station in life with that knowledge. Such actions are non- binding because there is no clinging to the results thereof and they will eventually grant you release from the dreaded circle of life and death by transforming you into the non-duality you are seeking, which incidentally is your real nature. More of what I said about performing non-binding actions (karmayoga) can be found in good interpretations of BG Chapter 2. I recommend Sw. Dayananda Saraswathi's teachings. The Chapter also makes you appreciate your immortality. Constant contemplation on it can make life easier to live and lessen one's forebodings about one's physical perishing. Best regards. Madathil Nair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 Dear Shri Madathil Nair thank you for your good explanations and i will look up BG Chapter 2 in Sw. Dayananda Saraswathi's teachings. If i find it in the internet... and please note: i did not felt "put off".... in Sri Ramana Maharshi michael - Madathil Rajendran Nair advaitin Tuesday, October 07, 2008 1:53 PM Re: Choosing path of action My dear Shri Michael Bindel,I don't want to put you off. Let us consider your question bit by bit:You asked:_________"How do you live nonduality/advaita in daily life - how do tackle the always arising "conflicts" between your inner belief/knowledge and the socalled daily-reality; living with others, working with others, partnerships etc."___________Non-duality is your being. It cannot be lived. When someone says "I am living my life happily", he/she supposes himself/herself to be an entity altogether separate from the life being lived. The living occurs through changing situations separated by space/time during which the supposed entity also changes. The tragedy is that it dies miserably at the end.Non-duality is immortality. Death, even the thought of it, dares not enter there; there are no conflicts, inner or outer beliefs and a so-called daily-reality there. There are no others too because all are you, there is no working because there is nothing to work on or with. There are no partnerships because you are in absolute partnership with yourself as a non-dual being.I should, therefore, assume that your question belongs to the realm en route non-duality. How to live that life en-route is well detailed in BG Chapter 2. In a nutshell, it entails non-binding action with the knowledge that the Lord is the result-giver. You need to perform legitimate dhArmic actions that are demanded of and by your station in life with that knowledge. Such actions are non-binding because there is no clinging to the results thereof and they will eventually grant you release from the dreaded circle of life and death by transforming you into the non-duality you are seeking, which incidentally is your real nature.More of what I said about performing non-binding actions (karmayoga) can be found in good interpretations of BG Chapter 2. I recommend Sw. Dayananda Saraswathi's teachings. The Chapter also makes you appreciate your immortality. Constant contemplation on it can make life easier to live and lessen one's forebodings about one's physical perishing.Best regards.Madathil Nair Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.7.6/1712 - Release 07/10/2008 9.41 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 Namaste V. Krishnamurthy-ji thank you for your efforts! I would to know how i can "reach" this thread excuse me please for being ignorant in this matter your help is indeed very much appreciated in Sri Ramana Maharshi michael - V. Krishnamurthy advaitin Tuesday, October 07, 2008 12:51 PM Re: Choosing path of action advaitin , "Michael Bindel" <michael.bindel wrote:> How do you live nonduality/advaita in daily life - how do tackle the always arising "conflicts" between your inner belief/knowledge and the socalled daily-reality; living with others, working with others, partnerships etc.> > Awaiting your replyNamaste Michael Bindel-jiPlease have a look at the postings on the thread "Advaitic Living" in October 2006 on this list. PraNAms to all advaitins.profvk Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.7.6/1712 - Release 07/10/2008 9.41 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 Dear Mr. Michael Myself being also a new member in the sangha, I am happy to join in choosing path of action with you. There are 'Bhaavaadvaita' and 'Kriyaadvaita' -- Attitudinal & Actionable advaitaa. The conflicts in daily reality of living with others, working with others, partnerships etc., are of our attitude only . What I do in times of such conflicts is , by applying Advaita, I enter the other party of our conflict to view from their eyes.Then I feel that the other is justified from their view point and intellect resulting in the disappearance of conflict. The feeling of no conflict is peace and non-duality. We proceed further with our actions. Dr.goli --- On Mon, 10/6/08, Michael Bindel <michael.bindel wrote: Michael Bindel <michael.bindelRe: Re: Choosing path of actionadvaitin Date: Monday, October 6, 2008, 9:08 PM Dear unknown members my name is michael bindel. Currently i reside in Hungary. I am new to your sangha. Due to Grace i am since many years a devotee of SRI RAMANA MAHARSHI and found in Advaita the answer for my burning questions. As i try my best to live accordingly i have the courage to ask this esteemed sangha a simple but important question - at least for this being. How do you live nonduality/advaita in daily life - how do tackle the always arising "conflicts" between your inner belief/knowledge and the socalled daily-reality; living with others, working with others, partnerships etc. Awaiting your reply in His Grace yours sincerely michael bindel Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.7.6/1709 - Release 05/10/2008 9.20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 Dear Shri Bindel, I don't think you will get the commentary on the net as it is a part of Swamiji's BG Home Study Course. You may have to order it. The whole document covering all the 18 chapters is just too voluminous. I don't know if you can get Chapter 2 alone. Anyway, please try the info at the following link: http://www.arshavidya.org/programs_homestudy.html In the meanwhile, you can enjoy the benefit of Swamiji's guidance by downloading some of his brilliant essays from: http://www.arshavidya.org/programs_homestudy.html Also, please do a search with the words " Karma Yoga " at Advaitin search engine. You will get him on the topic as quoted by some of our Members. Best regards and best of luck. Madathil Nair _______________ advaitin , " Michael Bindel " <michael.bindel wrote: > >....i will look up BG Chapter 2 in Sw. Dayananda Saraswathi's teachings. If i find it in the internet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 Sorry, Shri Bindel. The second link should read: http://www.avgsatsang.org/hhpsds.html Madathil Nair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 Dearest Shri Madathil Nair michael appreciates very much your efforts to help me! in Sri Ramana Maharshi michael bindel Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.7.6/1713 - Release 07/10/2008 18.40 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 Dear Michaelji, as Shree Nairji pointed out: on paramarthika level, i.e. in non-duality, there is no conflict whatsoever. On the way to non-duality I have found it helpful to know how the mind functions. It enables you more and more to realize that conflicts are not so much between you and the outer world but within the mind. Maybe you know that the mind has 4 compartements. One of them, called buddhi, should be in charge, as it can discriminate clearly and thus makes wise decisions. If it is strong, it will put up effectively a big STOP-sign as soon as the other compartements build up for a conflict. I am sure that other members can give you lots of advice as to how to strengthen the buddhi. What I would like to point out is, that the knowledge of the inner structure of the mind in itself is helpful. Knowing that buddhi exists, makes you put attention on it; whenever you recognize it, you can nourish it and follow it. Thereby alone it gains strentgh. The following source explaines the structure of the mind very well. As it is a yoga site it uses the insights about the mind in a yogic way though. This is the link http://www.swamij.com/index-yoga-meditation-mind.htm I recommend looking at 'Coordinating the 4 functions of the mind' and 'mind map of yoga'. Certainly other members can point out many more sources. As I did not have the time to study our Sadajis mind series I cannot say whether this might be useful in your case. Om Tat Sat Sitara --- Michael Bindel <michael.bindel schrieb am Mo, 6.10.2008: > Von: Michael Bindel <michael.bindel > Betreff: Re: Re: Choosing path of action > An: advaitin > Datum: Montag, 6. Oktober 2008, 14:08 > Dear unknown members > > my name is michael bindel. Currently i reside in Hungary. I > am new to your sangha. Due to Grace i am since many years a > devotee of SRI RAMANA MAHARSHI and found in Advaita the > answer for my burning questions. > As i try my best to live accordingly i have the courage to > ask this esteemed sangha a simple but important question - > at least for this being. > > How do you live nonduality/advaita in daily life - how do > tackle the always arising " conflicts " between your > inner belief/knowledge and the socalled daily-reality; > living with others, working with others, partnerships etc. > > Awaiting your reply > > > in His Grace > > > yours sincerely > > michael bindel > > > > > > > > > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.7.6/1709 - Release > 05/10/2008 9.20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 Namaste Shri Michael-ji, > thank you for your efforts! > I would to know how i can " reach " this thread > excuse me please for being ignorant in this matter > your help is indeed very much appreciated You could read them at the following link: advaitin/messages/33804?threaded=1 & m=e & var=1 & tidx=\ 1 or at http://tinyurl.com/3gfolm Hope it helps, praNAms to all Advaitins Ramakrishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2008 Report Share Posted October 11, 2008 Dear Shri Bindel, This is an afterthought which just occurred to me. Since you are a European, it will be a good idea for you to read Eckhart Tolle's " A New Earth - Awakening To your Life's Purpose " before beginning your foray into Advaitic living. If you have read the book, then it would be worthwhile re-reading it and comparing Tolle's thoughts with those of the ancient Indians, which teachers like Sw. Dayananda Saraswathi et al elucidate. You will see more than a striking similarity between the two and realize how much Tolle owes to the East (I don't want to single out India). I do, however, have a grouse that he hasn't acknowledged it fully in his book. He also seems to smugly believe that his book alone can usher in a universal awakening to Consciousness. Well, complaints have no place in the life Tolle envisions. So, let us forget such trivia. Best regards. Madathil Nair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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