Guest guest Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 Bhaskarji - PraNAms Just my opinion. If you examine your question, you will find the answer yourself. Is one substitute for the other - it depends on the individual. Even the so called japa, bhajans and naama sankeerthana also can become mechanical. Suppose one asks do I need to do high school before I enter into medicine. It depends on the qualification of the person. If I already have all the prerequisites then it is useless for me to go to high school again since the purpose of high school is only to provide me those prerequisites. The one who has the saadhana sampatti then one can do, as Br. Sutra 1 says athaato brahma jignaasa - then therefore inquire into Brahman - for -then - shankara spends considerable amount of discussion about qualifications and answers the question you posed - does one have to do rituals or veda karmakaanDa. Who is going to decide who has the requisite qualifications for the inquiry into Brahman? If one tries to do Vedantic meditation, that is inquiry into the nature of reality using shastra pramaana, and if the mind is not able to do, then he requires chitta suddhi – He needs to take few steps back - until the mind is able to detach itself for the inquiry - hence karmayoga and that includes pachabhuuta yagnas are important for that mind to be able to detach. If the mind can inquire steadily, then the purpose of all other purification rites are fulfilled. No need to do other than to teach others. Therefore should one do or not do - is an incorrect question. It depends on the qualification of the student. Personally I have no desire for ritualism and I get bored watching the process - I will be just watching the whole scene as part of His vibhuuti - wondering the intelligence behind it - the puja, the abhishekam, the pujaari doing his things (taking water here and pouring water there, all that mechanics) and spectators not knowing what all that means just admiring as the part of the routine – the whole scene - Why abhishekam with those particular items, and then cleaning the idol and decorating it with all the flowers etc. and everybody admiring the beauty of the Lord after all the decoration – then aarati - and of course the prasaadam and leave. Most of the puja follows aagama shaastra and most of the time it is done mechanical since it is prescribed - at least that is what it appears to me. Hopefully people are peaceful during that time and recognize the role of the Lord in day to day life. They may have big list of what they want from the Lord for doing that puja. Of course who else can give other than the Lord? Personally I prefer to sit quitely in one corner or in a lounge and do Vedantic meditation. I used to do regular japa and sit for meditation - Now I do not do that either - since even japa became more a distraction. I can just get lost in admiring the beauty of the Lord present whereever I look. There is a beautiful sloka that says - wherever my eyes go oh my Lord, let me see your lotus feet there. Then doing or not doing the rituals etc, including japa and naaama sankeertana or Bhajans become least relevant. I prefer to see the Lord everywhere (of course in the temple too)and do my own ritual in admiration of His omnipresence and beautiful manefestations. It becomes a problme if I have to do ritual since my wife wants - then that becomes my obligatory duty! I do it then to keep my peace - since Lord is there too and in the people who are participating in that puja. Only scence change for variety. But of course when Laddu is available right in front why go all the way miles for a shop to get that Laddu? For a variety that is OK, once in away! Hari Om! Sadananda --- On Tue, 10/14/08, Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr wrote: > I need clarification from learned prabhuji-s of this > forum...Can spiritual > practices like meditation, bhajans, nAma saMkeertan, japa > be the substitute > for our veda vihita nitya & naimittika karma-s like > sadhyA vandana, agni > kArya, dEvatArchana, vrata, hOma, havana etc.?? I have > seen some people, > giving utmost importance to do japa, bhajans, nama > saMkeertana and while > doing the veda vihita sandhya vandana, devatArchana, > abhishekaM etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2008 Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 praNAms Sri Sadananda prabhujiHare KrishnaI dont think doing or skipping one's own nitya karma is an individual choice...These are injunctions enshrined in our smruti & shruti texts..Hence there is no *other* choice but to adhere to one's own dharma (svadharmE nidhanaM shrEyaH..are the words of krishna in gIta) I am really surprised to see your somewhat resentful comments on the procedure of poojA vidhAna...Here it is from your below mail :// quote //Personally I have no desire for ritualism and I get bored watching the process - I will be just watching the whole scene as part of His vibhuuti - wondering the intelligence behind it - the puja, the abhishekam, the pujaari doing his things (taking water here and pouring water there, all that mechanics) and spectators not knowing what all that means just admiring as the part of the routine – the whole scene - Why abhishekam with those particular items, and then cleaning the idol and decorating it with all the flowers etc. and everybody admiring the beauty of the Lord after all the decoration – then aarati - and of course the prasaadam and leave. Most of the puja follows aagama shaastra and most of the time it is done mechanical since it is prescribed - at least that is what it appears to me. Hopefully people are peaceful during that time and recognize the role of the Lord in day to day life. They may have big list of what they want from the Lord for doing that puja. Of course who else can give other than the Lord? // unquote//Kindly note, not only poojAri (priest) takes water here & pours there (perhaps you may be referring arghya, pAdya, Achamana, shuddhOdaka snAnaM etc. in devatArchana), even jagadguru of shrungeri does this *pouring* activity while performing chandramouLishwara pooja at shArada peeTaM...IMO, saying 'vedic injuction (vidhi-s) such as nitya karma, devatArchana etc is a *boring* activity is not a wise assertion from the follower of vEda dharma. Anyway, you are welcome to have your opinion on these vedic rituals & respect your decision to sit for meditation instead of doing *boring* pooja.Thanks onceagain for your comments prabhuji.Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!bhaskarkuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisadakuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada Sent by: advaitin 10/14/2008 08:35 PMPlease respond toadvaitin Toadvaitin ccSubject Re: [Advaita-l] Meditation Vs nitya karmaBhaskarji - PraNAmsJust my opinion.If you examine your question, you will find the answer yourself. Is one substitute for the other - it depends on the individual. Even the so called japa, bhajans and naama sankeerthana also can become mechanical.Suppose one asks do I need to do high school before I enter into medicine. It depends on the qualification of the person. If I already have all the prerequisites then it is useless for me to go to high school again since the purpose of high school is only to provide me those prerequisites. The one who has the saadhana sampatti then one can do, as Br. Sutra 1 says athaato brahma jignaasa - then therefore inquire into Brahman - for -then - shankara spends considerable amount of discussion about qualifications and answers the question you posed - does one have to do rituals or veda karmakaanDa. Who is going to decide who has the requisite qualifications for the inquiry into Brahman? If one tries to do Vedantic meditation, that is inquiry into the nature of reality using shastra pramaana, and if the mind is not able to do, then he requires chitta suddhi – He needs to take few steps back - until the mind is able to detach itself for the inquiry - hence karmayoga and that includes pachabhuuta yagnas are important for that mind to be able to detach. If the mind can inquire steadily, then the purpose of all other purification rites are fulfilled. No need to do other than to teach others. Therefore should one do or not do - is an incorrect question. It depends on the qualification of the student.Personally I have no desire for ritualism and I get bored watching the process - I will be just watching the whole scene as part of His vibhuuti - wondering the intelligence behind it - the puja, the abhishekam, the pujaari doing his things (taking water here and pouring water there, all that mechanics) and spectators not knowing what all that means just admiring as the part of the routine – the whole scene - Why abhishekam with those particular items, and then cleaning the idol and decorating it with all the flowers etc. and everybody admiring the beauty of the Lord after all the decoration – then aarati - and of course the prasaadam and leave. Most of the puja follows aagama shaastra and most of the time it is done mechanical since it is prescribed - at least that is what it appears to me. Hopefully people are peaceful during that time and recognize the role of the Lord in day to day life. They may have big list of what they want from the Lordfor doing that puja. Of course who else can give other than the Lord? Personally I prefer to sit quitely in one corner or in a lounge and do Vedantic meditation. I used to do regular japa and sit for meditation - Now I do not do that either - since even japa became more a distraction. I can just get lost in admiring the beauty of the Lord present whereever I look. There is a beautiful sloka that says - wherever my eyes go oh my Lord, let me see your lotus feet there. Then doing or not doing the rituals etc, including japa and naaama sankeertana or Bhajans become least relevant. I prefer to see the Lord everywhere (of course in the temple too)and do my own ritual in admiration of His omnipresence and beautiful manefestations. It becomes a problme if I have to do ritual since my wife wants - then that becomes my obligatory duty! I do it then to keep my peace - since Lord is there too and in the people who are participating in that puja. Only scence change for variety. But of course when Laddu is available right in front why go all the way miles for a shop to get that Laddu? For a variety that is OK, once in away!Hari Om!Sadananda--- On Tue, 10/14/08, Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr wrote:> I need clarification from learned prabhuji-s of this> forum...Can spiritual> practices like meditation, bhajans, nAma saMkeertan, japa> be the substitute> for our veda vihita nitya & naimittika karma-s like> sadhyA vandana, agni> kArya, dEvatArchana, vrata, hOma, havana etc.?? I have> seen some people,> giving utmost importance to do japa, bhajans, nama> saMkeertana and while> doing the veda vihita sandhya vandana, devatArchana,> abhishekaM etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2008 Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 praNAms Sri Sadananda prabhuji Hare Krishna Kindly pardon me if I hurt your feelings...your very first comment *boring* about puja vidhAna forced me to think in that way...Anyway, it is onceagain worthy to note that we cannot have *more* options when it comes to observation of *svadharma*...We cannot pick & chose our way of life especially shruti & smruti texts stirctly pressing the importance of vidhi-vidhAna for a particular varNAshrami.. Here in our case (i.e. gruhasthA-s/householders) there are some prescribed injunctions in shAstra-s for that we should not try to find out substitutes just by citing some mundane excuses & giving higher dimensions to spiritual practice just to supersede the shAstra vihita nitya karma-s... Thanks onceagain for your comments prabhuji. Hari Hari Hari Bol!!! bhaskar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2008 Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 --- On Thu, 10/16/08, Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar wrote: PraNAms to all. The topic of the discussion has shifted to taking bhoutika sanyaasa to renoucne nitya karmaas. My statement was Shankara does not to pratyavaya paapam for not performing so called obligatory duties - in his discussion of jnanaakarma saucchya vaada. It is not for those who have renouced actions physically only. I suggest that one should study his bhaashyam carefully. Karma is important for chitta suddhi. Jnaana yoga is not for bhoutika sanyaasins only. My taking sanyaasa is beyond the scope of this topic and I leave it HIM to decide since I find that it is also in HIS hands. One can have of course mental sanyaasa which is more important. I will not be contributing on this topic any further. Hari Om! Sadananda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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