Guest guest Posted December 21, 2008 Report Share Posted December 21, 2008 Given that we ARE our essential nature, which is called many things such as brahman, my question is: Who is it that has ignorance? Could brahman, whether unmanifest brahman, or whether appearing as an individual, could there be any ignorance at all within the omnipresent brahman? I find the following by Shankara to add to the confusion. Is there any meaning to it I'm not getting? And please don't shrug it off with the word " paradox " : " We agree that the Absolute is not the author of Ignorance and that it is not deluded by it either. Even so there is nothing other than the Absolute which is the author of Ignorance, and no other conscious being apart from the Absolute that is deluded by it. " bRRihadAraNyaka upaniShad bhAshya I.iv.10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2008 Report Share Posted December 21, 2008 --- On Sat, 12/20/08, Richard <richarkar wrote: Given that we ARE our essential nature, which is called many things such as brahman, my question is: Who is it that has ignorance? Richard - PraNAms First you are raising very fundamental question in advaita vedatana. -What is the locus of ignorance? - Without going into exhaustive detail - let us look at the question first. But before you ask that first ask who is asking this question? As your statement starts if we ARE our essential nature which is Brahman, the question is invalid - From Brahman point there is nothing other than Brahman. Brahman alone is - one without a second says scriptures. If I know I am Brahman, and Brahman does not ask any question - much less about ignorance. The problem comes only when I do not know my essential nature - and the very statement -I do not know - That itself answers who has the ignorance. If I do not have the ignorance of myself - I would not pose that question, right? Hence simple answer is If I think I am jiiva, then I have ignorance of my true nature. If I think I am Brahman - I am one without a second - question itself dissolves. In Naiskarmya Siddhi - 3rd Ch. Sureswara addresses this question exhaustively. Hari Om! Sadananda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2008 Report Share Posted December 21, 2008 PranAms. For a general perspective on the "locus of avidya" -http://poornamadam.blogspot.com/2007/03/locus-of-avidya-story-of-mrpott.html For a more specific answer to this reference - it again reinforces the genius of Bhagwan Shankara. Note how He first makes the definitive assertion, that Brahman is not the author of AvidyA(I prefer the original term to Ignorance which is only a loose translation) nor is it deluded by it. Then the assertion that there is nothing other than Brahman....Which then leads to the last portion...no other conscious being other than Brahman that can be deluded....This is the exact paradox of mithya- It is experienced - hence is - It goes away upon enquiry - hence isnt - it is neither sat nor asat - the AvidyA - it very much exists for you, the harborer of a sense of separation and individuality, and in the wake of knowledge, it is realized to never be. Both you - the individual ahankara (i-notion) as well as the Avidya that deludes you, are all mithyA. When did this happen? this is indeterminable or beginningless. There is no "Real" conscious Being other than Brahman, and no "Avidya" either which is Real. Hari OM Shri Gurubhyoh namah Shyam --- On Sat, 12/20/08, Richard <richarkar wrote: Richard <richarkar Enlightenment/Ignoranceadvaitin Date: Saturday, December 20, 2008, 6:58 PM Given that we ARE our essential nature, which is called many things such as brahman, my question is: Who is it that has ignorance?Could brahman, whether unmanifest brahman, or whether appearing as an individual, could there be any ignorance at all within the omnipresent brahman?I find the following by Shankara to add to the confusion. Is there any meaning to it I'm not getting? And please don't shrug it off with the word "paradox":"We agree that the Absolute is not the author of Ignorance and that it is not deluded by it either. Even so there is nothing other than the Absolute which is the author of Ignorance, and no other conscious being apart from the Absolute that is deluded by it." bRRihadAraNyaka upaniShad bhAshya I.iv.10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2008 Report Share Posted December 21, 2008 advaitin , Shyam <shyam_md wrote: > > > For a general perspective on the " locus of avidya " - > http://poornamadam.blogspot.com/2007/03/locus-of-avidya-story-of- mrpott.html > > For a more specific answer to this reference - > Richard <richarkar > Enlightenment/Ignorance > advaitin > Saturday, December 20, 2008, 6:58 PM > > And please don't shrug it off with the > word " paradox " : > > " We agree that the Absolute is not the author of Ignorance and that it > is not deluded by it either. Even so there is nothing other than the > Absolute which is the author of Ignorance, and no other conscious being > apart from the Absolute that is deluded by it. " bRRihadAraNyaka > upaniShad bhAshya I.iv.10 > Namaste, It should be pointed out that Shankara has written a 20-page commentary in Sanskrit (30-page English translation by Sw. Madhavananda), on this section, answering 29 objections! A deep study under a Teacher's guidance would seem to be essential for a qualified aspirant to imbibe the implications. Regards, Sunder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 advaitin , " Richard " <richarkar wrote: > > Given that we ARE our essential nature, which is called many things > such as brahman, my question is: Who is it that has ignorance? Dear Richardji, I have just rejoined the Advaitin group after a break of nearly four years. My understanding is : Brahman is the Absolute and everything is Brahman. Brahman has the power known as Maya. Through Maya, Brahman manifests as Jeevatma or Individual Consciousness ( sometimes also called Conditioned Consciousness). At this level the Jeevatma experiences Maya as Avidya or ignorance. When this ignorance is removed, Jeevatma realizes its true nature, that is, Brahman. Thus, in answer to your question, it is Jeevatma who has ignorance. Regards and God Bless Mohan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.