Guest guest Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 advaitin , Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr wrote: > > > I think we are simply talking in our own circles...Anyway, kindly > allow me to share my understanding once again : Hari OM! Please allow me, or better forgive me, for agreeing with it. We often seem to simply talk in circles. Is it only me or others also sense this? Diameter of circle seems to increase with length of posts. We at times make multiple, lengthy posts in a day just to debate a point or defend our understanding. Yet, often no one changes their stance, and we go to another thread, another circle. Sometimes leaving unpleasant footprints. Often generating more heat and less light. Am I completely mistaken? ----------- Hari OM! -Srinivas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 hare krishna,namaskarams i fully endorse the view expressed by shri srinivasa nagulapalli baskaran On Fri, 16/1/09, Srinivas Nagulapalli <srini_nagul wrote: Srinivas Nagulapalli <srini_nagul Re: How can/does a Guru teach?advaitin Date: Friday, 16 January, 2009, 10:44 PM advaitin@ s.com, Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr@ ...> wrote:>> > I think we are simply talking in our own circles...Anyway, kindly > allow me to share my understanding once again :Hari OM!Please allow me, or better forgive me, for agreeing with it. We often seem to simply talk in circles. Is it only me or others also sense this? Diameter of circle seems to increase with length of posts. We at times make multiple, lengthy posts in a day just to debate a point or defend our understanding. Yet, often no one changestheir stance, and we go to another thread, another circle. Sometimesleaving unpleasant footprints. Often generating more heat and lesslight. Am I completely mistaken?-----------Hari OM!-Srinivas Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 praNAms Sri Srinivas Nagupalli prabhuji Hare Krishna Yes, what you are telling is in a way correct...we are so stubborn in defending our views...But I think this would be a healthy practice of manana as long as you are keeping the *personalities* outside the circle of these discussions...There is an adage in Kannada : 'sagaNijote sarasakkinna, gandhada jote guddAta melu' ( a rough translation : it is better to have a fight with sandalwood instead of being romantic with cow dung!!)...What we have in our list is *pure sandalwoods* prabhuji, though it seems some of us, the tyro-s in vedanta, fighting with them, it always ends in having soothing aroma in & around us... I dont know about others, but I do think on those lines... Hari Hari Hari Bol!!! bhaskar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 advaitin , Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr wrote: > > Yes, what you are telling is in a way correct...we are so stubborn > in defending our views...But I think this would be a healthy > practice of manana as long as you are keeping the *personalities* > outside the circle of these discussions...There is an adage in > Kannada : 'sagaNijote sarasakkinna, gandhada jote guddAta melu' ( > a rough translation : it is better to have a fight with sandalwood > instead of being romantic with cow dung!!)... Hari OM and Pranams! Thank you for writing and support. I tried little manana and felt that we can live fine without sandalwood, but cannot live without cow dung. Because, the very food we eat is cultivated with cow dung etc., Your and Sadaji's suggestion to keep away personalities is very good. Otherwise, too much defending of views is also another subtle manifestation of ego's attachment. See, it is mainly about MY view, MY understanding, MY learning, MY scholarship or even MY doubts! MY, MY and MY only, leaving sometimes little space for MY Lord! Unlike discussions on other subjects, discussion on Advaita seems very different. One can discuss whole life Chemistry without knowing how to cook a meal, which is after all a combination of chemicals. But, how to talk about BIG Brahman when ruffled by SMALL words! How to know Ramana's response to pain by sharp knife without ability to forbear a sharp word. How to talk about blissful Consciousness when agitated by mere views. ----------------- Hari OM! -Srinivas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Namaste Nairji and Bhaskarji: Historically it was a common practice for Vedic scholars (including Shankara) to participate in philosophical debates (vadas) in the public. The scholars engaged in meaningful discussions and debates have undergone formal training in `tarka sastra'(expression of viewpoints with logical coherence and consistency). In all public debates, rights and wrongs are openly exchanged and expressed. The point-counter points and the extent of tarka sastra that went in the analysis have been well documented in the Vedantic literature. There is nothing unusual in pointing out someone is wrong using logical means where appropriate. The scholars were fully aware that logic alone can never resolve all the outstanding philosophical issues. Most importantly, the scholars who possessed the greatest scholarship invariably expressed their view points with humility. Scholars have conducted their debates with a limited time-frame along with rules and guidelines. Now we are in the cyberspace with unlimited computer and internet resources to communicate and exchange our views. The issue is how to make use of these resources in conducting meaningful debates that can potentially enhance our knowledge of Vedanta in a friendly atmosphere. As for as I can see that we have lots of scope to improve our debating methods. You both have made some good points on the merits of having debates but we do need to exercise more caution while debating complex issues. There is no need to be stubborn in defending a view without supporting evidence from scriptures or other authoritative sources which include the " quoted works of Sankaracharya or other acharyas or saints. Also we should be humble enough to admit our own " errors " during debates and keep an open mind to accept the view points that are contrary to our " own stubborn view points. " Your suggestion that the debate should focus on the " subject matter " and not on the personalities is good. Sadaji's excellent suggestion in post #43105 will take us in the right direction. There is no love or hate in debates, neither that we need to " rub " the sandalwood or stick our nose in the cow-dung. In nature, both sandalwood and the cow-dung play important roles for the welfare of all beings. We should remind ourselves the famous serenity prayer: The serenity to accept the things I cannot change (such as the view points of other scholars), the courage and willingness to change the things I can (accept my errors and appreciate the insights of others), and the wisdom and clarity to know the difference (between the right and wrong). Thanks again for your inputs. With my warmest regards, Ram Chandran advaitin , " Madathil Rajendran Nair " <madathilnair wrote: > > I notice that such debates compel those involved to read and analyze > in order to strengthen their positions. That itself is a big > benefit. If there are no debates, we will remain stagnant in > lifeless quotes. > > Madathil Nair advaitin , Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr wrote: > > Yes, what you are telling is in a way correct...we are so stubborn in > defending our views...But I think this would be a healthy practice of > manana as long as you are keeping the *personalities* outside the circle of > these discussions...There is an adage in Kannada : 'sagaNijote > sarasakkinna, gandhada jote guddAta melu' ( a rough translation : it is > better to have a fight with sandalwood instead of being romantic with cow > dung!!)...What we have in our list is *pure sandalwoods* prabhuji, though > it seems some of us, the tyro-s in vedanta, fighting with them, it always > ends in having soothing aroma in & around us... I dont know about others, > but I do think on those lines... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 praNAms Sri Ramachandra prabhuji Hare Krishna Sri Ram prabhuji : but we do need to exercise more caution while debating complex issues. There is no need to be stubborn in defending a view without supporting evidence from scriptures or other authoritative sources which include the " quoted works of Sankaracharya or other acharyas or saints. Also we should be humble enough to admit our own " errors " during debates and keep an open mind to accept the view points that are contrary to our " own stubborn view points. " bhaskar : I am really sorry to say it is really amusing for me to see your comments on me & Nair prabhuji...'Stubbornness' is quite evident here in our discussion from either side of the participants :-)) If you see stubbornness only from me & nair prabhuji, you could have written that directly to me & nair prabhuji...what was the need for names calling in this open forum?? Infact the fact is that, I've agreed that I am stubborn openly but others are showing stubbornness deplomatically :-)) You tell me prabhuji, what was the need for undue stretching of the simple dialogue from bhagavan ramaNa (wincing body!!?) from both the sides??? Do you still believe stubbornness is just from one side?? As I said earlier, instigation & provocation is their from either ends, that is the reason why there are multiple no. of mails from both the sides on this subject...Without noticing this simple fact if you simply pointing your finger on me & nair prabhuji then I've to say you have to give a second thought on your opinion on the ongoing discussions. You have also suggested that there is no need for any stubbornness when the views are not appropriately supported by scriptures & bhAshya-s..I really doubt whether you have read all the mails from *stubborn* people (especially from me) ...As far as I know, I have given enough reference from shruti & bhAshya to substantiate my stubbornness. Whether those are appropriate quotes or not secondary..nobody even bothered to look into it sofar!!..On the other hand what we have seen most of the time from other side is ONLY intellectual answers.. We are ready to admit our own errors if it is proved by shruti, yukti, anubhava & siddhAnta..If you think that we are erred based on some personal understadning of others, then I am sorry, we continue to discuss till there is a substatial evidence to prove that our or their understanding is flawed.. Sri Ram prabhuji : the sandalwood or stick our nose in the cow-dung. In nature, both sandalwood and the cow-dung play important roles for the welfare of all beings. bhaskar : This saying is not meant to establish the importance of both sandal & cow dung :-))....The purpose is entirely different from what you are trying to interpret above...Ofcourse you agree with me though both are playing important role...we should not apply cow dung paste in place of sandal paste in pooja kArya-s. Kindly understand the purpose and pass remarks prabhuji.. Kindly pardon me if I said anything wrong here. Hari Hari Hari Bol!!! bhaskar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 advaitin , Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr wrote: > > > It is funny to see a simple adage in Kannada has already attracted > more than six mails in this list, without understanding the implied > meaning of this saying.. Hari OM! It is silly to see so many posts on how one is right and how one's interpretation alone is correct! > For arguments sake, if I offer you garland of cow-dung cakes in > place of sandal flower garland for your beautiful poem..is it OK?? My poem tells what I think, and above writing yours. You are a learned man and I believe you can answer your question, without my help. =================================================== Hari OM! -Srinivas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 Hari OM! It is silly to see so many posts on how one is right and how one's interpretation alone is correct! praNAms Hare Krishna It is equally hilarious to see without contributing anything worthy to the threads prabhuji-s are keen to give their incongruous judgements...Anyway, I am happy to note that the cow-dung thread has come to an end at last :-)) Hari Hari Hari Bol!!! bhaskar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 advaitin , Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr wrote: > > It is equally hilarious to see without contributing anything worthy > to the threads prabhuji-s are keen to give their incongruous > judgements... Hari OM! Unhesitatingly and humbly, I admire any one's profuse contributions. Number of posts times the words used, plus thinking time, typing and reading before responding, adds up to so much quality time and effort -it is really astonishing to see that much quality time spent during working hours and even late nights on this list, not just during lunch-time or evenings! I am clueless how it is done, and cannot even dream of matching it. ======================================================= Hari OM! -Srinivas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.