Guest guest Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Pranams Fellow Advaitins and Seekers of the Truth! THE NATURE OF THE JNANI 1.0 BACKGROUND The debate on the nature and characteristics of a Jeevan Muktha or Jnani has been a remarkable outpouring of knowledge. Nearly 400 pages have accumulated for detailed study and they are full of profound knowledge, references and multi-faceted investigations. I humbly express my deep reverence and admiration for the patience, diligence and the clarity of thought of all the participants, while performing their daily duties in their careers and other responsibilities. This discussion is in the tradition of India as Dr Amartya Sen, the Nobel Laureate, acknowledges in his book, " The Argumentative Indian " . It is through such a process of debate, discussion and painstaking research that the greatest gems in philosophy, such as the Upanishads, have emerged. It is natural for one to get involved in viewpoints, positions and a particular conceptual detail. However, as the aim of discussion is to arrive at a broad consensus on a specific topic, probably the time has come to try and trace an overall unifying concept, so that we can move on to fresh topics. We have arrived at an important point and if we can work out a broad consensus, then all members of this list will feel that we have reached a milestone in our learning. Today, we seem to have come to two overarching descriptions of the nature and characteristics of a `realized soul', a Jeevan Muktha or a Jnani. All these names, including Sthitha Pragnya describe the same person, one who has attained `Atma Sakshatkara' or `Self Realization'. 2.0 DESCRIPTION I We are all agreed that a person who has attained to or reached this state `experiences Brahman' alone. It is said to be the ultimate crowning fulfillment of human birth. He realizes his true nature and in the process realizes that it is the true nature of everything. This is expressed in two powerful statements: `Sarvam Khalvidam Brahma' `Everything is verily Brahman' And `Aham Brahmasmi' `I am Brahman'. Thus the entire multiplicity that he was experiencing around him earlier, the world around him, stands transformed into a beautiful peaceful continuum called Brahman. Also, the individuality, the separate identity, the uniqueness that he thought of as himself stands transformed into Brahman. On this state of the Jeevan Muktha or Jnani we are all agreed. There is no difference of view on this. Not only is this nature of a Jeevan Muktha or Jnani described by the statements above, but also by a large number of confirming statements which are profusely scattered in the 400 pages of this discussion. 2.0 DESCRIPTION II The second important viewpoint that emerges from the discussion is related to the nature of interaction between the Jeevan Muktha or Jnani and the ephemeral world. We are all agreed that some kind of interaction does take place between the Jeevan Muktha or Jnani and the world around him, for the remainder of his `life' till such time as he drops the physical body. From the discussion it clearly emerges that, steeped as he is in the awareness of Brahman, the Jeevan Muktha or Jnani is verily Brahman himself. The nature of Brahman is Truth and Bliss, Compassion and Love. He accordingly radiates this nature. He utters and expresses Truth. He is immersed and envelopes all around him in Bliss. He is verily the Ocean of Mercy and Compassion, the `Daya Sagara'. He is Love incarnate. Beautiful descriptions of such Jeevan Mukthas or Jnanis abound in these 400 pages of discussions. This compassion takes many forms in the world around him. His glance can bestow purity. His words clarify many ideas. His gesture of blessing can change lives. Being Brahman, the principles of Peace, Auspiciousness and Unity (Shantam, Shivam, Advaitam) emanate from him. He clarifies in Silence. His eyes may be open, yet his Being is immersed in Bliss. The devotees around him try to relate to him in their own ways. Yet he is unaffected, perfectly at ease, and detached. He is purely a witness to the multitudinous manifestations of Brahman around him. He sees no differences. You can see how difficult it is to express his nature and characteristics and behavior in words. No words can express his state. All the great members who have participated in these discussions over the last two months are earnest Sadhakas, exponents and students of the recorded expressions of a long lineage of Jeevan Mukthas or Jnanis and are worthy of our deepest love and respect. Their humility, earnestness and clarity of thought all deserve the highest accolades. 3.0 THE WAY FORWARD On behalf of countless novices and acolytes who are members of this list, I express our heartfelt gratitude and admiration to the great exponents of these discussions. Like the principle of Advaita, which represents the total unchanging Unity of Reality, may this list also move forward in unity ! Warm regards, Love and God Bless Mohan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Dear Mohan-ji, Your summing up in 43915. Excellent work. You listened, you heard. You looked, you discerned. I wish all those who have eyes and ears, but preferred to keep them closed, had emulated your example. Best regards. Madathil Nair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 advaitin , " Madathil Rajendran Nair " <madathilnair wrote: > I wish all those who have eyes and ears, but preferred > to keep them closed, had emulated your example. Hari OM! How do you know? It is enough if we can get busy to set an example. Far from discussing nature of Jnani, we are passing judgements on others now. With petty thoughts, how can we ever understand any thing nobler, let alone a Jnani. Seems like we are planning to climb Everest while slipping in bathtub. ---------------------- Hari OM! -Srinivas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 advaitin , " Srinivas Nagulapalli " <srini_nagul wrote: > > advaitin , " Madathil Rajendran Nair " > <madathilnair@> wrote: > Pranams Fellow Advaitins, The post 'The Nature of the Jnani' was meant as a well-intentioned attempt by a novice to arrive at a consensual statement regarding the voluminous contents running into some 400 pages of the recent discussions. One had expected comments from participants to modify or elaborate the post so that we could arrive at an agreement. While agreeing broadly with the contents, one of the responses has again unfortunately pointed at others and that has resulted in a rejoinder. We are back at square one. I, for one, give up ! God Bless Mohan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 advaitin , " smnm1010 " <smnm1010 wrote: > > Pranams Fellow Advaitins and Seekers of the Truth! > > THE NATURE OF THE JNANI Namaste,IMO, One can only guess at the nature of a Jnani and take snippets of information from actual Muktas. Ramana says the consciousness of a Jnani is like a baby suckling, it has no real memory of the event and it is autonomous, or similar words. Each Jnani is different as far as the body/mind goes as they all have different karmas to fulfill. I suppose if you take your name out of the picture and imagine that you have no name. That will help and then look at the world without the feeling that 'I am looking at something', then all that would be looking would be the body/mind. For after all the ego entity isn't there anymore and the Sakti is using the Vijnanamayakosa to operate the body/mind construct. So the ego reverts to it previous non perverted state of an action reaction mechanism for protection of the organism. And isn't magnified into this 'I am doing something'. It is our lack of appreciation of what a Jnani is that makes us attribute volition and actions to the Jnani when it is just the body/mind survivor that does the actions...Cheers Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 I will be grateful if any body could give the details of any present jeevan muktas in their opinion. I was told that mere visiting of such jnanis woul give great help to the seekers.If some have already been named in the earlier discussions reference of the message number would be helpful pranams to all. podury On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 7:34 AM, smnm1010 <smnm1010 wrote: Pranams Fellow Advaitins and Seekers of the Truth!THE NATURE OF THE JNANI1.0 BACKGROUNDThe debate on the nature and characteristics of a Jeevan Muktha or Jnani has been a remarkable outpouring of knowledge. Nearly 400 pages have accumulated for detailed study and they are full of profound knowledge, references and multi-faceted investigations.I humbly express my deep reverence and admiration for the patience, diligence and the clarity of thought of all the participants, while performing their daily duties in their careers and other responsibilities.This discussion is in the tradition of India as Dr Amartya Sen, the Nobel Laureate, acknowledges in his book, " The Argumentative Indian " . It is through such a process of debate, discussion and painstaking research that the greatest gems in philosophy, such as the Upanishads, have emerged. It is natural for one to get involved in viewpoints, positions and a particular conceptual detail. However, as the aim of discussion is to arrive at a broad consensus on a specific topic, probably the time has come to try and trace an overall unifying concept, so that we can move on to fresh topics.We have arrived at an important point and if we can work out a broad consensus, then all members of this list will feel that we have reached a milestone in our learning.Today, we seem to have come to two overarching descriptions of the nature and characteristics of a `realized soul', a Jeevan Muktha or a Jnani. All these names, including Sthitha Pragnya describe the same person, one who has attained `Atma Sakshatkara' or `Self Realization'.2.0 DESCRIPTION IWe are all agreed that a person who has attained to or reached this state `experiences Brahman' alone. It is said to be the ultimate crowning fulfillment of human birth. He realizes his true nature and in the process realizes that it is the true nature of everything. This is expressed in two powerful statements: `Sarvam Khalvidam Brahma'`Everything is verily Brahman'And`Aham Brahmasmi'`I am Brahman'.Thus the entire multiplicity that he was experiencing around him earlier, the world around him, stands transformed into a beautiful peaceful continuum called Brahman.Also, the individuality, the separate identity, the uniqueness that he thought of as himself stands transformed into Brahman.On this state of the Jeevan Muktha or Jnani we are all agreed. There is no difference of view on this. Not only is this nature of a Jeevan Muktha or Jnani described by the statements above, but also by a large number of confirming statements which are profusely scattered in the 400 pages of this discussion. 2.0 DESCRIPTION II The second important viewpoint that emerges from the discussion is related to the nature of interaction between the Jeevan Muktha or Jnani and the ephemeral world.We are all agreed that some kind of interaction does take place between the Jeevan Muktha or Jnani and the world around him, for the remainder of his `life' till such time as he drops the physical body.From the discussion it clearly emerges that, steeped as he is in the awareness of Brahman, the Jeevan Muktha or Jnani is verily Brahman himself. The nature of Brahman is Truth and Bliss, Compassion and Love. He accordingly radiates this nature. He utters and expresses Truth. He is immersed and envelopes all around him in Bliss. He is verily the Ocean of Mercy and Compassion, the `Daya Sagara'. He is Love incarnate.Beautiful descriptions of such Jeevan Mukthas or Jnanis abound in these 400 pages of discussions.This compassion takes many forms in the world around him. His glance can bestow purity. His words clarify many ideas. His gesture of blessing can change lives.Being Brahman, the principles of Peace, Auspiciousness and Unity (Shantam, Shivam, Advaitam) emanate from him.He clarifies in Silence. His eyes may be open, yet his Being is immersed in Bliss.The devotees around him try to relate to him in their own ways.Yet he is unaffected, perfectly at ease, and detached. He is purely a witness to the multitudinous manifestations of Brahman around him. He sees no differences.You can see how difficult it is to express his nature and characteristics and behavior in words. No words can express his state.All the great members who have participated in these discussions over the last two months are earnest Sadhakas, exponents and students of the recorded expressions of a long lineage of Jeevan Mukthas or Jnanis and are worthy of our deepest love and respect.Their humility, earnestness and clarity of thought all deserve the highest accolades.3.0 THE WAY FORWARD On behalf of countless novices and acolytes who are members of this list, I express our heartfelt gratitude and admiration to the great exponents of these discussions. Like the principle of Advaita, which represents the total unchanging Unity of Reality, may this list also move forward in unity !Warm regards, Love and God BlessMohan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 advaitin , vrsarma podury <rpodury wrote: > > I will be grateful if any body could give the details of any present jeevan > muktas in their opinion. I was told that mere visiting of such jnanis woul > give great help to the seekers.If some have already been named in the > earlier discussions reference of the message number would be helpful > pranams to all. > > podury Namaste Podury-ji Maybe you want to have a look at http://www.geocities.com/profvk/VK2/Jivanmukta.html PraNAms to all advaitins. profvk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 dear Krishnamurty ji Thank you for the reply. The site mentions Kanchi Paramacharya who was in the body upto 1994. What I requested was for information about PRESENT jivanmuktas to whom we could pay a visit. Please let me know whether I missed any information from the site mentioned by you pranams Podury On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 1:01 AM, V. Krishnamurthy <profvk wrote: advaitin , vrsarma podury <rpodury wrote:>> I will be grateful if any body could give the details of any present jeevan > muktas in their opinion. I was told that mere visiting of such jnanis woul> give great help to the seekers.If some have already been named in the> earlier discussions reference of the message number would be helpful > pranams to all.> > poduryNamaste Podury-jiMaybe you want to have a look at http://www.geocities.com/profvk/VK2/Jivanmukta.html PraNAms to all advaitins.profvk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 --- On Wed, 3/4/09, vrsarma podury <rpodury wrote: What I requested was for information about PRESENT jivanmuktas to whom we could pay a visit. > I will be grateful if any body could give the details of any present jeevan > muktas in their opinion. Shree vrsarma podury, PraNAms Jiivan mukta is one who has realized who revels in himself by himself and no desires to be fulfilled for him to be happy - The one who is equanimous and does not get either elated or depressed with the changing circumstances. Since he is peaceful by himself, that peace that passth understanding he can not but radiate. But to appreciate that peace by others they must also be in tuned. Since it is his mind that is revel ling in that state of understanding, it is difficult to know who has realized and how has not. Unfortunately there is no certificate procedure to certify that this one is realized and the other is not. Every sincere disciple will feel that his teacher is realized. Obviously he cannot tell about other teachers. The best approach is to look upon every spiritual teacher as realized master and enjoy their satsangh. Most of the realized masters will impart only highest knowledge that is conducive for ones growth. Do not go there to test whether he is realized or not. All teachers are not for everybody. If you find you are not gaining anything, just withdraw from there. It is possible you mind is not conducive to learn there. Hence approach everybody with reverential attitude and you will be blessed since Lord is there in everyone - those that are spiritually grown - Lord himself expresses through him. UpadrashTa anumantaacha bhartaa bhoktaa maheswararaH| With the purity of the mind by spiritual saadhana the degree of expression of His changes ultimately He himself expresses though that BMI - Hence we say guru Brahma guru Vishnu .. etc. Hence just enjoy the satsangh of mahaatmaas without worrying about who has realized or not and in the process we can grow. Sat sanghatve nissangatvam nissangatve nirmohatvam nirmohatve nischala tatvam nischalatatve jiivan muktaH - says Shankara glorifying the sat sangha which leads to detachment and detachment leads to elimination of all delusion and when all delusion is eliminated the mind becomes pure and serene and such a mind is conducive to become jiivan mukta. Hope this helps Hari Om! Sadananda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 advaitin , kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada wrote: > > The best approach is to look upon every spiritual teacher as > realized master and enjoy their satsangh. ..[snip].. Hence approach > everybody with reverential attitude and you will be blessed since > Lord is there in everyone - those that are spiritually grown - Lord > himself expresses through him. Hari OM! Thanks for saying that. It is astonishing how under the guise of spirituality, many fallacies persist. How often in the name of reason, unreasonable is justified; and in the name of compassion, passion is masqueraded. Some say " all are ajnanis util they get enlightened " . Even dare to say " every body pretends and public and personal life are different " . None of this is made up. Shockingly, real people- arguably more spiritually aware- believe and argue such things. I found it far more helpful to believe every other student in class is better and competing for top rank, making me relax less and study harder. It is disaster if one imagines every one is going to fail and does not put in whatever self-effort one possibly can. All seem like jnanis until *I* get enlightened. Personally, I learnt many things from many beings around and still do. They all look like jnanis at some level and at some point of my growth/evolution. May be my kindergarten teacher may not seem much of a jnani to me now, but she certainly seemed so then. Same thing for one who taught me alphabet, driving etc., So too, it seems far more practical and fruitful to consider every one as Jnani, until *I* get enlightened. If right, I learn some thing. If not, still I learn what not to do. This hunting for Jnani, looking up for names and addresses is futile. Walking while not knowing whether to stay where he was, or go to Arunachala, a sweeper's comment to move to one side of street, triggered Ramana to take his decision. Many ask us to move, nothing happens! Simple apple falling on Newton, triggered his alert mind to question more leading to gravitation theory. Many things fall on many heads, nothing much comes out it. Every one saw mold for centuries, only Fleming could see pencillin in it. Every one saw worse than a " chandala " (graveyard keeper), only Shankara could outpour the sublime Maneesha Panchakam. It is the inner readiness that determines how much we can benefit from outer experiences. ======================================== Hari OM! -Srinivas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 2009 Report Share Posted March 5, 2009 Dear Sadananda ji Pranaams Thank you very much for responding to my poser replying from a practical perspective full of wisdom. Probably I have not worded my query properly. I heard that a Jnani only could know another Janani. My query was prompted with the feeling that we were not contemporaries of great persons like Sri Ramana, Sri Ramakrishna and whether there are such great souls living now. Although I heard that one should go on do his sadhana and at a right time the Guru would arrive if the sadhana is intense, visiting great mahatmas is part of the search. Recently I happend to read a book on Andhra Yogis. I was surprised to learn about hundreds of yogis who reached very high levels in spiritual world. In all the cases the progress of each yogi was quite significant and some times instantaneous when one met one's destined guru This convinced me that a guru could expedite the progress of a sadhaka. I will certianly keep in view your advice and take advantage of all satasangs Thanking you once again Podury On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 4:07 PM, kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada wrote: --- On Wed, 3/4/09, vrsarma podury <rpodury wrote:What I requested was for information about PRESENT jivanmuktas to whom we could pay a visit. > I will be grateful if any body could give the details of any present jeevan> muktas in their opinion. Shree vrsarma podury, PraNAmsJiivan mukta is one who has realized who revels in himself by himself and no desires to be fulfilled for him to be happy - The one who is equanimous and does not get either elated or depressed with the changing circumstances. Since he is peaceful by himself, that peace that passth understanding he can not but radiate. But to appreciate that peace by others they must also be in tuned. Since it is his mind that is revel ling in that state of understanding, it is difficult to know who has realized and how has not. Unfortunately there is no certificate procedure to certify that this one is realized and the other is not.Every sincere disciple will feel that his teacher is realized. Obviously he cannot tell about other teachers. The best approach is to look upon every spiritual teacher as realized master and enjoy their satsangh. Most of the realized masters will impart only highest knowledge that is conducive for ones growth. Do not go there to test whether he is realized or not. All teachers are not for everybody. If you find you are not gaining anything, just withdraw from there. It is possible you mind is not conducive to learn there. Hence approach everybody with reverential attitude and you will be blessed since Lord is there in everyone - those that are spiritually grown - Lord himself expresses through him. UpadrashTa anumantaacha bhartaa bhoktaa maheswararaH| With the purity of the mind by spiritual saadhana the degree of expression of His changes ultimately He himself expresses though that BMI - Hence we say guru Brahma guru Vishnu .. etc. Hence just enjoy the satsangh of mahaatmaas without worrying about who has realized or not and in the process we can grow. Sat sanghatve nissangatvamnissangatve nirmohatvamnirmohatve nischala tatvamnischalatatve jiivan muktaH - says Shankara glorifying the sat sangha which leads to detachment and detachment leads to elimination of all delusion and when all delusion is eliminated the mind becomes pure and serene and such a mind is conducive to become jiivan mukta. Hope this helpsHari Om!Sadananda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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