Something to consider

[Guest guest]

Namaste Vedantins,

 

Why do we study Vedanta? I would assume (and I could be wrong),

that most of us study Vedanta because we are convinced that

doing so has the potential to lead us to its goal, which is

self-knowledge, direct immediate knowledge that our very own

swarupa, our nature, our atma is brahman unchanging and

eternally free.

 

As ajnanis we see things through the lens of ajnanam.

We know no other way to interpret our experience even

if due to ajnanam our present interpretation of our

experience is wrong.

 

We need someone who does not see through the lens of ajnanam,

but rather through the lens of jnanam, to help us out of the

predicament we are in. And just reading the words of the

teachings alone and trying to interpret their meaning by

ourselves is not enough to get us out of the problem we are in,

because knowing nothing other than ajnanam, we will interpret

those words through the lens of ajnanam just as we do

everything else.

 

Vedanta works as a pramana, not because we can figure out

some sort of hypothetical or conceptual meaning of the

words we read, but rather because the words, when handled

correctly by a qualified teacher, lead the mind of the student

step by step to self-recognition by knocking off our

ajnanam-based incorrect and mentally damaging notions,

and also by continually pointing out the truth which

is already available and here to be known.

 

If we really want Vedanta to work as a means of liberation

it might be a good thing to try and find an actual living

person who is an authority and who knows how to use the words

of the teachings as described above to guide us in the proper

direction.

 

Without direct access to and sraddha in a living authority

we may accept this or that portion of what someone says here,

and some of the views represented may be correct and some may

of them may be incorrect, and we may not have the ability to

tell the difference

 

I once heard Swami Dayanandaji say something to the effect

that with regard to the teachings of Advaita/Vedanta

the more one studies, the more one comes to understand that

the less are the possibilities of what the truth actually is.

 

One thing to consider is that if we have an interpretation

of the meaning of the words of the teachings which we have

arrived at on our own, and if that view is incorrect, then

we have effectively positioned 'jnanam' in such a way that

we will never gain it, because we will be looking for something

that doesn't actually exist to match up with our own incorrect

concepts. This would present an enormous obstacle.

 

Another problem we may create for ourselves is that

out of great respect or humility (or even perhaps

because we do not value ourselves enough) we may believe

that jnanam is something which cannot be gained here and

now by the likes of me.

 

If we have such ideas at the back of our minds these thoughts may

cause us to adopt views or interpretations of the words of the

teachings which are so fantastic that again we place jnanam even

farther away than it is, and believe that it something so magical

that we could never have it. These types of ideas may very

well lead us to think that jnanam is a new experience to be

gained rather than a recognition of what the truth of our experience

actually is here and now.

 

So those are my two cents worth, because if what we really

want is self-knowledge and we are adopting wrong notions of

what the words of the teachings are actually pointing out,

then all we are doing is taking ourselves farther and farther

away from the goal

 

If my own nature is already free and already brahman

and I do not know that, then I need someone who does

know that to help me see that which at present appears obscure.

 

We cannot figure our way out of the box from within the box of

ajnanam. The only remedy for this that I know of is to find a teacher

who can help us. We cannot do it on our own, nor is self-knowledge

something to be arrived at through consensus.

It isn't a matter of voting for what one thinks is true, it is a

matter of recognizing what is always, actually and ever true.

 

That said, I have learned a lot from these discussions, and

I'm grateful that they have been going on, although I would

hope that no one's feelings or emotions have been troubled

by them. For myself, I don't think the meaning of any of it

would have been accessible if I did not have a teacher who can

explain the teachings with great patience and clarity and use

Vedanta shubdha as a pramana to exactly point out what true

meaning of the words is.

 

Pranams,

Durga

[Guest guest]

--- On Mon, 3/2/09, Durga <durgaji108 wrote:

 

Why do we study Vedanta? I would assume (and I could be wrong),

that most of us study Vedanta because we are convinced that

doing so has the potential to lead us to its goal, which is

self-knowledge, direct immediate knowledge that our very own

swarupa, our nature, our atma is brahman unchanging and

eternally free.

 

----------

Durgaji - PraNAms

 

Yes that is very important to ask ourselves. Keeping the mind on the inquiry

aspect without getting the ego entangled is the saadhana by itself -As Krishna

says again again - slowly slowly - shanaiH shanaiH - we need to watch every step

recognizing there is no other way other than enquiry of the truth within and

without. Hence scriptures say it is a razor-edge path - it is a balancing act

but one reaches perfection with awareful and vigilant discrimination of

permanent vs. ephemeral. Our attachment to our own knowledge is another bondage

that need to be overcome. That is the most difficult part but that is where

abhyaasa and vairaagya - the two powerful methods suggested by Krishna are

helpful.

 

Thanks for reemphasizing the essential goal of our own lives.

 

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

[Guest guest]

advaitin , kuntimaddi sadananda

<kuntimaddisada wrote:

>

>

>

> --- On Mon, 3/2/09, Durga <durgaji108 wrote:

>

> Why do we study Vedanta? I would assume (and I could be wrong),

> that most of us study Vedanta because we are convinced that

> doing so has the potential to lead us to its goal, which is

> self-knowledge, direct immediate knowledge that our very own

> swarupa, our nature, our atma is brahman unchanging and

> eternally free.

>

> ----------

> Durgaji - PraNAms

>

> Yes that is very important to ask ourselves. Keeping the mind on the

inquiry aspect without getting the ego entangled is the saadhana by

itself -As Krishna says again again - slowly slowly - shanaiH shanaiH

- we need to watch every step recognizing there is no other way other

than enquiry of the truth within and without. Hence scriptures say it

is a razor-edge path - it is a balancing act but one reaches

perfection with awareful and vigilant discrimination of permanent vs.

ephemeral. Our attachment to our own knowledge is another bondage that

need to be overcome. That is the most difficult part but that is where

abhyaasa and vairaagya - the two powerful methods suggested by Krishna

are helpful.

>

> Thanks for reemphasizing the essential goal of our own lives.

>

>

> Hari Om!

> Sadananda

 

Namaste Sri Sadanandaji,

 

Thank you for your post. I feel a bit embarrassed

to ask you this, but I can't put my hand on my

Sanskrit glossary at the moment, and I don't remember

the meaning of the word 'abhyassa.' Can you kindly

explain to me what that word means?

 

Also in the above paragraph how are you using the word

'vairaagya?'

 

Usually when my teacher uses the word we define it

as the recognition (and remembrance) that the true

source of happiness does not exist in the world of

pheneomena, but rests in the nature of my self alone.

 

Sometimes I think with regard to the mind, it is

very helpful for me to remember that this isn't 'my'

mind. It's been given to me by the Lord, and

that helps to put things in their proper perspective.

 

Pranams,

Durga

[Guest guest]

Durgaji - PraNAms

 

It is my fault for not explaining the terms used.

 

Abhyaasa means practice. Vairaagya means renunciation of something lower for

higher.

 

Arjuna asks in the 6th chapter it is indeed very difficult to control the mind

–

cancalam hi manaH Krishna pramaathi balavat dRiDam|

tasyaaham nigraham manye vaayoriva sudhushkaram||

Mind is very fickle and it is extremely difficult to control, as impossible as

one trying to control the stormy wind.

 

When somebody says it is impossible to control - Krishna being a great

psychologist says first - yes you are right, it is indeed very difficult to

control - BUT it can be done by constant practice (abhyaasa) and by renunciation

of our attachments (vairaagya). Therefore it is difficult but not impossible.

But with constant vigilent practice one can achieve it.

 

AsamShayam mahaa baaho manodurnigraham calam|

abyaasenatu kouteya vairaagyena ca gRiShyate|| - these are 6-35 and 36.

 

Krishna repeats the word abhyaasa at several other places to emphasize by slow

and constant practice one can achieve it.

 

These discussions therefore are a plus sign that remind us we need to watch

every step we take without getting attached but dive deep into the nature of

reality. Instead of pointing to others faults, let us be sensitive to our own

faults and see if we can grow out of them. That is our saadhana. Ultimately that

is what counts.

 

Hence we are all progressing - small ups and downs are part of growing up - like

ball bouncing back with full force whenever we fall down.

 

 

Let us take these discussions also in the right spirit and as part of our

saadhana and keep reminding ourselves to see the essence and move forward

towards the goal with renewed enthusiasm without slipping down like a mud ball

that falls and stays there - This example comes from BhartRihari.

 

Yes you are absolutely right - we need to consider our own frame of mind in

these discussions - as someone said by pointing a finger at others we are

pointing three fingers at ourselves.

 

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

 

 

--- On Mon, 3/2/09, Durga <durgaji108 wrote:

 

 

Thank you for your post. I feel a bit embarrassed

to ask you this, but I can't put my hand on my

Sanskrit glossary at the moment, and I don't remember

the meaning of the word 'abhyassa.' Can you kindly

explain to me what that word means?

 

Also in the above paragraph how are you using the word

'vairaagya?'

 

Usually when my teacher uses the word we define it

as the recognition (and remembrance) that the true

source of happiness does not exist in the world of

pheneomena, but rests in the nature of my self alone.

 

Sometimes I think with regard to the mind, it is

very helpful for me to remember that this isn't 'my'

mind. It's been given to me by the Lord, and

that helps to put things in their proper perspective.

 

Pranams,

Durga