Guest guest Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Namaste, all Compared to other animals, it is observed, only human beings have moha, mada, lobha and matsarya, in addition to kama and krodha, which other animals also have, maybe in a lower degree. Further the urge for excelling others or for achieving perfection is found only in human beings. What is the reason for this? I am sure Advaita Vedanta will have an answer or this. With warm regards R.S.Mani R.. S. Mani Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Maniji - PraNAms One answer is provided by BhartRihari in the form of the following sloka. ahaara nidraa bhayamaithunanca samaanyametat paShubhiH naraaNaam| budhirhi teShaa adhiko visheShaH budhyaa vihiinaaH pashubhiH samaanaaH|| Eating food, sleep, fear, having off-springs, etc is common for both animals and men. Then what makes the different? Only difference is men are endowed with discriminative intellect - and poet says - if that intellect is not used (properly!) then men are not different from animals; may be even worse, since they have it and are not using it while the animals do not have it even if they want to use it. Hence Shankara says - it is in the intellect the light of consciousness shines to the maximum - Here the intellect stands for discriminative faculty and the highest discrimination is nitya anitya vastu viveka - discrimination of what is eternal and what is ephemeral is the viveka required according to Advaita as means for self-realization. sadaa sarvagataH aatmaa na sarvatraavabhaasate| budhyaaveva bhaaseta swacchesu pratibimbavat| says Shankara in Atmabodha. Although the consciousness is all pervading, it shines maximum in the pool of intellect - cleaner the intellect is more reflection it can provide like a mirror. Understanding and realization involves self-knowledge which can occur only with intellect. According to Aldus Huxley, the evolution in mammals peaked with human because of the development of 'conceptual thought'. It is only a man who questions the cause for his suffering. Animals just go though the pains without questioning why I am suffering. They are preprogrammed. Man alone can incur sin since he has a choice in action because he is given the intellect. Hence can also evolve rapidly too for the same reason or also damn himself and behave worse than an animal. That choice he has. Hence VivekachuuDaamani says - manushyatvam, mumukshutvam, mahaapuruSha samsrayam - durlabham - and it is daivaanugraham only - being born as human being, desire for liberation and getting associated with a noble soul is due to the grace of God only. Hari Om! Sadananda --- On Tue, 3/10/09, R.S.MANI <r_s_mani wrote: Compared to other animals, it is observed, only human beings have moha, mada, lobha and matsarya, in addition to kama and krodha, which other animals also have, maybe in a lower degree. Further the urge for excelling others or for achieving perfection is found only in human beings. What is the reason for this? I am sure Advaita Vedanta will have an answer or this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 The present question is " Compared to other animals, it is observed, only human beings have moha,mada,lobha and matsarya,in addition to kama and krodham, which other animals also have ,may be in lower degree.Further the urge for excelling others or for achieving perfection is found only in human beings. What is the reason for this?The very purpose of Advaita Vedanta is to give answers to these interesting concerns of human beings.The word desire or iccha denotes a passionate longing for the acquisition of an objects which one regards as source of gratification and as relieving one's pain. There are various phases of this longing, which are covered by such expressions as kama,krodha,lobha,moha,mada , matsarya ,thrist,hope,craving,urge for excelling,yearning etc. It is a modification of the mind;hence it has been reckoned as an evolute of the human body or 'Kshetra'. Animosity,jealousy,hatred,anger etc., are some of its gross forms. This is also a modification of the mind. Hence it has also been counted as an evolute of the human body or 'Kshetra'.The above truths about the human body or Kshetra has been expounded by the seers in manifold ways along with Kshetragna. It has been separately stated in different vedic chants and also in the conclusive and reasoned texts of the Brahmasutras. The sum and substance of what the Rishis have said on the subject has been succinctly stated by Lord Krishna in Bhagavadgita. 'Kshetrakshetrajnayorevamantaram' - Those who thus perceive with the eye of wisdom the difference between the human body or human beings and the Kshetrajna, and the phenomenon of liberation from Prakrti with her evolutes, reach the supreme eternal Spirit. This is Advaita. R.S.MANI <r_s_manigroup <advaitin >Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:25:25 AM Any answer! Namaste, all Compared to other animals, it is observed, only human beings have moha, mada, lobha and matsarya, in addition to kama and krodha, which other animals also have, maybe in a lower degree. Further the urge for excelling others or for achieving perfection is found only in human beings. What is the reason for this? I am sure Advaita Vedanta will have an answer or this. With warm regards R.S.Mani R.. S. Mani Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 advaitin , Anjaneyulu Goli <golianjaneyulu wrote: > > The present question is " Compared to other animals, it is observed, only human beings have moha,mada,lobha and matsarya,in addition to kama and krodham, which other animals also have ,may be in lower degree.Further the urge for excelling others or for achieving perfection is found only in human beings. What is the reason for this? > > The very purpose of Advaita Vedanta is to give answers to these interesting concerns of human beings. Namaste, A Chimp in a Swedish Zoo, saves up caches of rocks to throw at visitors the next time they visit. http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2009/mar/09/chimp-zoo-stones-science This show imagination, anger,forward planning and future thinking and the desire for a result in many ways. I have always believed that humans build themselves up too much. In illusion we all share one consciousness after all. 50% of mankind has an IQ of 100 or less, close to the Apes even. Most of mankinds brain is as large as it is due to speech and the need for instruments to express and transfer it. Speech doesn't imply intelligence any more than a birds abiliity to fly does. Nisargadatta Maharaj said that only one person in Bombay/Mumbai could intellectually understand non-duality never mind realise it. That works out at about 1 in 10 million at the time. So there are probably only 60,000 people on the planet that understand non duality and a handful that are realised. The majority of humankind are not really any more advanced than an animal. The animal at least is more in a state of surrender and doesn't suffer the illusion of multiple Deities, and Religions and Beliefs. Like Gandhi I fail to perceive a vast difference........Cheers Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 advaitin , Anjaneyulu Goli <golianjaneyulu wrote: > > The present question is " Compared to other animals, it is observed, only human beings have moha,mada,lobha and matsarya,in addition to kama and krodham, which other animals also have ,may be in lower degree.Further the urge for excelling others or for achieving perfection is found only in human beings. What is the reason for this? > > The very purpose of Advaita Vedanta is to give answers to these interesting concerns of human beings. > Namaste all http://www.geocities.com/kvforp/ng/Empiremind.html Please have a look at the above. Along with Ego as the capital of a gang of thirteen there are twelve channels of flow for the mind. Of these, Desire(also lust), Anger, Greed,and Hate -- these four are rooted in animal passions. They are common between animal and man but man has perfected them. The basis for these four is attachment (Raaga). Attachment to external things generates these four. But man has gone beyond the animal passions and has perfected seven other passions which are peculiar to man. They are: IrshyA, Arrogance, Delusion, Jealousy, Malice, Dambha and Garva . These are based on Internal attachment -- that is, attachment to this sthula sharira and sukshma sharira namely the physical and mental body. These thirteen constitute the gang of thirteen. The Gita shloka which suggests the word 'gang' is VI-24 where the word 'indriya-grAma' is used. The webpage quoted above will probably help crystallising these thoughts. PraNAms to all advaitins. profvk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 PraNAms Hare Krishna After reading the difference between animals & human beings..I am getting a doubt here..do animals have the right (adhikAra) to get solvation (mOksha)?? if not, what about 'gajendra mOksha' (elephant's emancipation in purANa-s:-))?? Hari Hari Hari Bol!!! bhaskar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 advaitin , " R.S.MANI " <r_s_mani wrote: > > Namaste, all > Compared to other animals, it is observed, only human beings have moha, mada, lobha and matsarya, in addition to kama and krodha, which other animals also have, maybe in a lower degree. Further the urge for excelling others or for achieving perfection is found only in human beings. > What is the reason for this? I am sure Advaita Vedanta will have an answer or this. > With warm regards > R.S.Mani > > > R. S. Mani > > maybe there are tendencies within every living forms.... tendencies to get aware of the nature of happiness...peace....freedom......liberation.... human beings can get themself, by themself, the necessary basic ground to advance into such inner search.... so that, one day....humans, a human being, can be aware that there is no difference at all between a percieved (animal)...and the perciever. Fears and emotions are gone then. And, in fact, nobody & nothing who/which ever got the choice to any (in-)perfection. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 Namaste Bhaskarji, Not that alone Bhaskarji. I have heard that the much celebrated devotee of Lord Guruvayoorappan, Vilwamangalam Swamigal, had to take two rebirths - the first one as a serpent and the second as a tulasi plant at Lord Guruvayoorappan temple simply because he sought quick relief from the Lord for a stomach problem instead of patiently suffering it. It was in his second term as the plant that he ultimately merged with the Lord. So, plants can also hope to have salvation. I have also heard that a banyan tree at Guruvayoor is the transformation of a woman devotee of the Lord. (Perhaps, our esteemed Shri Balgopalji might be able to throw more light on these accounts which have recently been serialized on TV.) It seems Tony-ji is more than one hundred percent right in his opinion on this issue. We, the humans, are thinking too much of ourselves. Best regards. Madathil Nair _________________ advaitin , Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr wrote: >> > After reading the difference between animals & human beings..I am getting a > doubt here..do animals have the right (adhikAra) to get solvation > (mOksha)?? if not, what about 'gajendra mOksha' (elephant's emancipation > in purANa-s:-))?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 Pranams, Nairji: Yes, I share yours and Tony-ji's thoughts on this subject as well. I had typed the thoughts below yesterday, saved them in my drafts folder, and then got sidetracked. Lord Guruvayoorappan had other jobs for me!!! And it is good to remember to be careful what you ask for;-) In complete surrender, we ask for nothing but perhaps complete surrender! ............................... As I am sure you know, Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi was considered a great sage and vedantin. His love for animals is well known and it is said that he declared Lakshmi the cow liberated upon her death. He even had a special tomb built for her at the ashram... you can go to this link on my website to read a collection of stories about his love of and relationship with animals at the ashram, including the birds, one of which was a beautiful white peacock. God comes in many forms :-) We should not be too quick to declare the human form so superior. http://www.omshaantih.com/Ramana/Animals.htm OM Namo Narayanaya!!! In HIs Service, Radhe - Madathil Rajendran Nair advaitin Wednesday, March 11, 2009 7:17 AM Re: Any answer! Namaste Bhaskarji,Not that alone Bhaskarji. I have heard that the much celebrated devotee of Lord Guruvayoorappan, Vilwamangalam Swamigal, had to take two rebirths - the first one as a serpent and the second as a tulasi plant at Lord Guruvayoorappan temple simply because he sought quick relief from the Lord for a stomach problem instead of patiently suffering it. It was in his second term as the plant that he ultimately merged with the Lord. So, plants can also hope to have salvation. I have also heard that a banyan tree at Guruvayoor is the transformation of a woman devotee of the Lord. (Perhaps, our esteemed Shri Balgopalji might be able to throw more light on these accounts which have recently been serialized on TV.)It seems Tony-ji is more than one hundred percent right in his opinion on this issue. We, the humans, are thinking too much of ourselves.Best regards.Madathil Nair_________________advaitin , Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr wrote:>> > After reading the difference between animals & human beings..I am getting a> doubt here..do animals have the right (adhikAra) to get solvation> (mOksha)?? if not, what about 'gajendra mOksha' (elephant's emancipation> in purANa-s:-))?? Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.9/1993 - Release 03/10/09 07:19:00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 Namaste. br.sUtra. 1.3.25 says—But the size is spoken of from the point of view of existence within the heart, the scriptures being concerned with human beings. Shri Shankara says in his bhAShya on this sUtra as follows:- " Though the scriptures speak impersonally, still it postulates the competence of human beings only, because human being are able, desirous (of results), and not debarred " . The competence referred to is competence for liberation. Thus Shri Shankara's view is that only human beings can get liberation. The view generally found in Vedantic works is that it is only in a human birth that puNya and pApa can be earned, and birth as other creatures is only for experiencing and exhausting the accumulated pApa. This is because other creatures have no capacity to discriminate between what is right and what is wrong and so they are not responsible for their actions. The puranas speak about animals such as Gajendra having attained liberation. These are cases where they were human beings who were born as animals because of a curse, in order to exhaust their pApa. S.N.Sastri > advaitin , Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr@> wrote: > >> > > After reading the difference between animals & human beings..I am getting a > > doubt here..do animals have the right (adhikAra) to get solvation > > (mOksha)?? if not, what about 'gajendra mOksha' (elephant's emancipation > > in purANa-s:-))?? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 PraNams to all There are several pouranic stories. 1.One is the gajendra moksha that Bhaskarji brought to our attention and the other is jaya vijaya story - they were cursed to be born due to their rajasic nature, by sanatkumaras. Sanatkumars got angry too - these are jnaani's and teachers for Narada. In Gita it is said that - yad gatvaana na nivartante tat dhaama paramam mama. Once you reach my abode there is no return back - says Krishna. According Viashnava tradition, moksha is going to viakunta (after death)- the abode of Lord Vishnu. Hence I asked a vaishana guru how do they explain the curse of Jaya Vijaya and also the Ganjendra moksham. His answer was - they were not really in Viakunta since once you go there, there is no return back. There still in the satya loka or loka below the Vaikunta - where aabhrahma bhuvanaat.. - jiivas are still with in ajnaana - even vishiShTaadvaita s to jnaana as the means of liberation but that jnaana is bhakti ruupaka jnaanam - where there is an understanding of shesha-sheshi bhaava - he is the master and I am a servant jnaanam. Similarly he answered about Gajendra moksham - those elephants are not in the karma bhuumi but in satya loka - Apparently satyaloka has all kinds of jiiva's too with more evolved intellect. Where Brahmaji conducts Vedanta classes once in 32 years as per Ch. Up. We have of course stories where Rishies taking the form of dears - and King Pandu killed one of them and got cursed. Gajendra as Sastriji pointed is an evolved soul but has to be born in the animal form but with prior knowledge due to small lingering vaasanas. Well that was his explanation for whatever it is worth. At least let us treat the animals with great kind, since they may be great Rishies in that form! Hari Om! Sadananda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Namasthe, """I have also heard that a banyan tree at Guruvayoor is the transformation of a woman devotee of the Lord. (Perhaps, our esteemed Shri Balgopalji might be able to throw more light on these accounts "" The story is of a girl called 'Manju' who reached the temple late and couldn't offer her garland to Bhagavan. A Brahmin advised her to place it at the banyan tree. Her 'bhakthi' was so intense that the next day when the temple was opened the garland was seen on the idol! Since then the banyan tree is known in her name- 'MANJULAL'. Sri Aurobindo says: " It is the one religion which does not separate life in any smallest detail from religion, which knows what immortality is and has utterly removed from us the reality of death.[4] (Ghosh, Sri Aurobindo. “The Uttarpara Speech.†Karmayogin, vol. 2. Sri Aurobindo Birth Centenary Library (Sri Aurobindo Ashram, Pondicherry, 1972), p. 1-15)Regards Balagopal Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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