Time

[Guest guest]

Pranams!

 

Can anyone tell me how is 'Time' conceived of in Adviata Vedanta?

 

Thanks & Pranams, Mahesh

[Guest guest]

Dear Mahesh ,

 

It has been said that time and space exist only in the mind.. They are part of the grand cosmic illusion. Recent scientific studies also concur with the same.

 

Pranams

 

ramesh

--- On Tue, 3/24/09, maheshursekar <maheshursekar wrote:

maheshursekar <maheshursekar Timeadvaitin Date: Tuesday, March 24, 2009, 11:25 AM

 

 

Pranams!Can anyone tell me how is 'Time' conceived of in Adviata Vedanta?Thanks & Pranams, Mahesh

[Guest guest]

Shree Mahesh - PraNAms

 

Since you posted this in both advaitin and advaita-l lists, I am responding for

both.

 

First, some aspect of time was discussed in my knowledge series.

 

Time is gap between two sequential events according to Einstein. According to

Vedantic interpretation, time is gap between two experiences - hence mind

supported by consciousness comes in- In deep sleep state where the mind is

folded, the concept of time and space all get folded until the mind is awake.

 

Biological time is there even in deep sleep and that exists at Iswara level -

There the total mind is involved again supported by conscious entity-

creation-sustenance-dissolution requires continuous modification and continuity

is a concept of time. Hence both time and space at global level belong to

vyavahaara level - at jiiva level or praatibhaasika level - at the level of

experience - at individual mind level.

Shankara says in Dakshinamuurthy sloka:

maayaa kalpita desha kaala kalanaa vaicitra citriikRitam ..

Both time and space are creation of maaya - which is there but not there if one

goes into deeper analysis.

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

 

 

--- On Tue, 3/24/09, maheshursekar <maheshursekar@ > wrote:

 

 

Pranams!

 

Can anyone tell me how is 'Time' conceived of in Adviata Vedanta?

 

Thanks & Pranams, Mahesh

[Guest guest]

Pranams!I would like reply to your points in some detail but prefer to hold on for a while till I get more clarity on this issue by expounding the reason for my question:While I understand that time belongs to the vyAvarhAric satta, I was wondering if the Sruti, or Sankara make any specific mention about the *nature* of time. It seemed odd to me that of the trio space-time-causality that define our world, space & causality find considerable mention, but I have not come across a single place that Time has been mentioned specifically.Even if vyAvahAra is to be transcended in the final calling, Time forms a very important component of it, especially in meditation & on self-realization. So, leaving it unspoken of seems a bit odd.So, in short, my question is "is there any discussion of the nature of time by any of the Advaitic

philosophers"? Or is its nature is to be inferred from what is said otherwise. Or maybe, at the end of the day, it is not part of philosophy but physics.Thanks & Pranams, MaheshPS> A rather smart person who I asked this question said, AkAsa really means space-time (since space & time are intricately entwined ala Einsten! :-)). --- On Wed, 25/3/09, kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada wrote:kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisadaRe: Timeadvaitin , advaita-lDate: Wednesday, 25 March, 2009, 5:02 PM

 

 

Shree Mahesh - PraNAms

 

Since you posted this in both advaitin and advaita-l lists, I am responding for both.

 

First, some aspect of time was discussed in my knowledge series.

 

Time is gap between two sequential events according to Einstein. According to Vedantic interpretation, time is gap between two experiences - hence mind supported by consciousness comes in- In deep sleep state where the mind is folded, the concept of time and space all get folded until the mind is awake.

 

Biological time is there even in deep sleep and that exists at Iswara level - There the total mind is involved again supported by conscious entity- creation-sustenance -dissolution requires continuous modification and continuity is a concept of time. Hence both time and space at global level belong to vyavahaara level - at jiiva level or praatibhaasika level - at the level of experience - at individual mind level.

Shankara says in Dakshinamuurthy sloka:

maayaa kalpita desha kaala kalanaa vaicitra citriikRitam ..

Both time and space are creation of maaya - which is there but not there if one goes into deeper analysis.

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

 

--- On Tue, 3/24/09, maheshursekar <maheshursekar@ > wrote:

 

Pranams!

 

Can anyone tell me how is 'Time' conceived of in Adviata Vedanta?

 

Thanks & Pranams, Mahesh

 

 

 

Connect with friends all over the world. Get India Messenger.

[Guest guest]

Dear Manesh-ji,

Others will certainly have more extensive awareness of the

various places that time is mentioned but one is in Gaudapada’s kArikA

2.2 on the Mandukya Upanishad. In this it is stated that dreams cannot be real

because there is insufficient time for the dreamer to travel to the places in

the dream and get back in time to wake up in his own bed. And Shankara’s

commentary shows that the ‘understanding’ of time (from a vyAvahArika

point of view) is just as you would expect it to be from your own experience.

(kArikA 2.1 makes a similar observation with respect to space.)

Best wishes,

Dennis

 

 

 

 

advaitin [advaitin ] On Behalf Of Mahesh

Ursekar

Thursday, March 26, 2009 3:51 PM

advaitin

Re: Time

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Even if vyAvahAra is to be transcended in the final

calling, Time forms a very important component of it, especially in

meditation & on self-realization. So, leaving it unspoken of seems a bit

odd.

 

So, in short, my question is " is there any discussion of the nature of

time by any of the Advaitic philosophers " ? Or is its nature is to be

inferred from what is said otherwise. Or maybe, at the end of the day, it is

not part of philosophy but physics.

[Guest guest]

PranAms,

In fact Time is mentioned in the very first mantra of the Mandukya Upanishad itself -

 

"yacchaanyat tri-kaalateetam tadapyomkAra eva"

And whatever is beyond the three periods of time is also verily OM

Shankara says here that this "refers to whatever is inferable from its effects but is not circumscribed by time i.e the Unmanifest".

 

Hari OM

Shri Gurubhyoh namah

Shyam

--- On Fri, 3/27/09, Dennis Waite <dwaite wrote:

Dennis Waite <dwaiteRE: Timeadvaitin Date: Friday, March 27, 2009, 6:09 AM

 

 

 

 

Dear Manesh-ji,

Others will certainly have more extensive awareness of the various places that time is mentioned but one is in Gaudapada’s kArikA 2.2 on the Mandukya Upanishad. In this it is stated that dreams cannot be real because there is insufficient time for the dreamer to travel to the places in the dream and get back in time to wake up in his own bed. And Shankara’s commentary shows that the ‘understanding’ of time (from a vyAvahArika point of view) is just as you would expect it to be from your own experience. (kArikA 2.1 makes a similar observation with respect to space.)

Best wishes,

Dennis

 

 

 

advaitin@ s.com [advaitin] On Behalf Of Mahesh UrsekarThursday, March 26, 2009 3:51 PMadvaitin@ s.comRe: Time

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Even if vyAvahAra is to be transcended in the final calling, Time forms a very important component of it, especially in meditation & on self-realization. So, leaving it unspoken of seems a bit odd.So, in short, my question is "is there any discussion of the nature of time by any of the Advaitic philosophers"? Or is its nature is to be inferred from what is said otherwise. Or maybe, at the end of the day, it is not part of philosophy but physics.

[Guest guest]

advaitin , Mahesh Ursekar <maheshursekar wrote:

>

 

> So, in short, my question is " is there any discussion of the nature of time by

any of the Advaitic philosophers " ? Or is its nature is to be inferred from what

is said otherwise. Or maybe, at the end of the day, it is not part of philosophy

but physics.

>

 

Namaste,

 

These excerpts from Maitri (Maitrayani Brahamana) Upanishad are of

interest:

 

http://sanskritdocuments.org/doc_upanishhat/maitri.itx

 

athaanyaatrapyuktam.h \: anna.n vaa asya sarvasya yoniH kaalashchaannasya

suuryo yoniH kaalasya tasyaitadruupa.n yan nimeShaadikaalaatsambhR^ita.n

dvaadashaatmaka.n vatsarametasyaagneyamardhamardha.n vaaruNaM maghaadya.n

shraviShThaardhamaagneya.n krameNotkrameNa saarpaadya.n shraviShThaardhaanta.n

saumyam.h tatraikaikamaatmano navaa.nshaka.n sachaarakavidham.h

saukShmyatvaadetatpramaaNamanenaiva pramiiyate hi kaalaH na vinaa pramaaNena

prameyasyopalabdhiH prameyo.api pramaaNataaM

pR^ithaktvaadupaityaatmasambodhanaarthamityeva.n

hyaaha | yaavatyo vai kaalasya kalaastaavatiiShu charatyasau yaH kaalaM

brahmetyupaasiita kaalastasyaatiduuramapasaratiiti eva.n hyaaha \:

kaalaatsravanti bhuutaani kaalaadvR^iddhiM prayaanti cha .

kaale chaasta.n niyachchhanti kaalo muurtiramuurtimaan.h .. .. 14..

 

dve vaava brahmaNo rupe kaalashchaakaalashchaatha yaH

praagaadityaatso.akaalo.akaalo.atha ya aadityadyaH sa kaalaH sakalaH sakalasya

vaa etadruupa.n yatsa.nvatsaraH sa.nvatsaraatkhalvevemaaH prajaaH prajaayante

sa.nvatsareNeha vai jaataa vivardhante sa.nvatsare pratyasta.n yanti

tasmaatsa.nvatsaro vai prajaapatiH kaalo.annaM brahmaniiDamaatmaa chetyeva.n

hyaaha

kaalaH pachati bhuutaani sarvaaNyeva mahaatmani .

yasmin.h tu pachyate kaalo yasta.n veda sa vedavit.h ..15..

 

vigrahavaaneSha kaalaH sindhuraajaH prajaanaam.h eSha tatsthaH savitaakhyo

yasmaadeveme chandrarkShagraha sa.nvatsaraadayaH suuyante athaibhyaH

sarvamidamatra vaa yatki~nchitshubhaashubha.n dR^ishyanteha loke

tadetebhyastasmaadaadityaatmaa brahmaatha kaalasa.nj~namaadityamupaasiitaadityo

brahmetyeke.atha eva.n hyaaha .

hotaa bhoktaa havirmantro yaj~no viShNuH prajaapatiH .

sarvaH kashchitprabhuH saakShii yo.amuShminbhaati maNDale .. 16..

 

============================================================

 

http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/sbe15/sbe15117.htm

 

14. And thus it has been said elsewhere: Food is the cause of all this, time of

food, and the sun is the cause of time 1. The (visible) form of time is the

year, consisting of twelve months, made up of Nimeshas (twinklings) and other

measures. Of the year one half (when the sun moves northward) belongs to Agni,

the other to Varuna (when the sun moves southward). That which belongs to Agni

begins with the asterism of Maghâ, and ends with half of the asterism of

Sravishthâ, the sun stepping down northward. That which belongs to Soma (instead

of Varuna) begins with the asterism (of Asleshâ), sacred to the Serpents, and

ends with half of the asterism of Sravishthâ, the sun stepping up southward. And

then there (are the months) one by one, belonging to the year, each consisting

of nine-fourths of asterisms (two asterisms and a quarter being the twelfth part

of the passage of the sun through the twenty-seven Nakshatras), each determined

by the sun moving together with the asterisms. Because time is imperceptible by

sense, therefore this (the progress of the sun, & c.) is its evidence, and by it

alone is time proved to exist. Without proof there is no apprehension of what is

to be proved; but even what is to be proved can become proof, for the sake of

making itself known,

if the parts (the twinklings, & c.) can be distinguished from the whole (time 1).

For thus it is said:

'As many portions of time as there are, through them the sun proceeds: he who

worships time as Brahman, from him time moves away very far.' And thus it is

said:

'From time all beings flow, from time they grow; in time they obtain rest; time

is visible (sun) and invisible (moments).'

 

15. There are two forms of Brahman, time and non-time. That which was before the

(existence of the) sun is non-time and has no parts. That which had its

beginning from the sun is time and has parts. Of that which has parts, the year

is the form, and from the year are born all creatures; when produced by the year

they grow, and go again to rest in the year. Therefore the year is Pragâpati, is

time, is food, is the nest of Brahman, is Self. Thus it is said:

'Time ripens and dissolves all beings in the great Self, but he who knows into

what time itself is dissolved, he is the knower of the Veda.'

 

15. There are two forms of Brahman, time and non-time. That which was before the

(existence of the) sun is non-time and has no parts. That which had its

beginning from the sun is time and has parts. Of that which has parts, the year

is the form, and from the year are born all creatures; when produced by the year

they grow, and go again to rest in the year. Therefore the year is Pragapati, is

time, is food, is

the nest of Brahman, is Self. Thus it is said:

'Time ripens and dissolves all beings in the great Self, but he who knows into

what time itself is dissolved, he is the knower of the Veda.'

 

16. This manifest time is the great ocean of creatures. He who is called Savitri

(the sun, as begetter) dwells in it, from whence the moon, stars, planets, the

year, and the rest are begotten. From them again comes all this, and thus,

whatever of good or evil is seen in this world, comes from them. Therefore

Brahman is the Self of the sun, and a man should worship the sun under the name

of time. Some say

the sun is Brahman, and thus it is said:

'The sacrificer, the deity that enjoys the sacrifice, the oblation, the hymn,

the sacrifice, Vishnu, Pragapati, all this is the Lord, the witness that shines

in yonder orb.'

 

 

Atharva Veda XIX:53-54 has several verses on Time:

 

http://www.himalayanacademy.com/resources/books/vedic_experience/Part2/VEPartIIC\

hA.html

 

[Above Time Is Set a Brimful Vessel Purnah kumbhah]

 

 

 

Regards,

 

Sunder