Guest guest Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Namaste all, As I proceed with my translation from Tamil to English of Lakshmana Sharma's commentary on Ramana's 'Ulladu Naarpadu' (Reality in Forty Verses) in the other Group (Harsha-satsangh), this happens to be my first serious exposure to Ramana Maharishi's messages and writings. I get the feeling that Ramana's Self-Enquiry is the same thing as the nididhyAsana of Vedanta that Brihad-Aranyaka-Upanishad (II - 4 - v) speaks of. I would like members of this list to comment on, and criticise, the above opinion of mine. Thank you for the help. PraNAms to all advaitins. PraNAms to Bhagavan Ramana Maharishi. profvk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 advaitin , " V. Krishnamurthy " <profvk wrote: > I get the feeling that Ramana's Self-Enquiry is the same thing as the nididhyAsana of Vedanta that Brihad-Aranyaka-Upanishad (II - 4 - v) speaks of. > > I would like members of this list to comment on, and criticise, the above opinion of mine. Thank you for the help. > > PraNAms to all advaitins. > PraNAms to Bhagavan Ramana Maharishi. > profvk > Dear Prof, nididhyAsana is the third step after shravaNa or study of the upanishads and manana, reflection on them. But Ramana Maharshi does not make the study of the upanishads and reflection a necessary pre-requisite. Any one can straightaway take up enquiry into the question, " Who am I? " . Thus the two are different. The common feature is that both involve concentration of the mind on a particular point-- on the mahAvAkya in one, and on " Who am I? " in the other. Regards, S.N.Sastri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Prof. VK - PraNAms Yes Bhagavaan Ramana's text - sat DarshaNam - is very profound and like his other text - Upadesa saara - is also very contemplative text. I am taking Sat DarshaNam for this coming Memorial Day - 2day spiritual camp here. Few years back I took his other book - Upadesa saara. Prof. T.P. Mahadevan has written a commentary on the Sat Darshanam - may be published by Ramanaashrama, not sure. There is also a commentary by one swami from Bangalore, based on his lectures at Pune - forgot his name. Swami Tejomayanandaji also has a commentary, published by Chinmaya Mission. I do not know if Swami Dayanandaji has commentary on it. Swami Paramaarthanandaji has taken the text and CD is available at Chennai. Yes it is highly contemplative text and the mind should be prepared to take the flight Hari Om! Sadananda --- On Tue, 3/31/09, V. Krishnamurthy <profvk wrote: V. Krishnamurthy <profvk NididhyAsana and Self-Enquiry advaitin Tuesday, March 31, 2009, 7:08 AM Namaste all, As I proceed with my translation from Tamil to English of Lakshmana Sharma's commentary on Ramana's 'Ulladu Naarpadu' (Reality in Forty Verses) in the other Group (Harsha-satsangh) , this happens to be my first serious exposure to Ramana Maharishi's messages and writings. I get the feeling that Ramana's Self-Enquiry is the same thing as the nididhyAsana of Vedanta that Brihad-Aranyaka- Upanishad (II - 4 - v) speaks of. I would like members of this list to comment on, and criticise, the above opinion of mine. Thank you for the help. PraNAms to all advaitins. PraNAms to Bhagavan Ramana Maharishi. profvk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Dear Sadanandaji and Prof. VK-ji, It's good to see so many eminent people have done commentaries on Bhagavan Ramana's " Forty Verses on Reality " . I wonder if Swami Paramarthanandaji's will ever be more widely available? Prof. VK's current translation of Lakshmana Sharma's Tamil version and commentary is particulary important as this is essentially a recording of the tuition and explanation Lakshmana received from Bhagavan Ramana himself about the meaning of these verses. Sri Lakshmana's first version of the Forty Verses was in Sanskrit under the title of " Revelation " . His later commentary based on what Bhagavan taught him was made in Tamil. It's publication was urged by Bhagavan, though it has not been translated into English until now. Bhagavan devotees will be particularly grateful to Prof. VK for this translation. Sri Lakshmana's book " Maha Yoga " is also a summary of the teachings of Sri Ramana based on Forty Verses. This has been translated into English by Sri Lakshmana and is available (it least it used to be) as a free download from Sri Ramanasramam Web Site. Below is a passage from the preface of " Maha Yoga " about Sri Lakshmana's relationship with Sri Ramana and how his translation and commentary of the Forty Verses came about. " Lakshmana Sarma spent more than twenty years in close association with Bhagavan Sri Ramana and he made a deep study of His teachings under His personal guidance. One day in 1928 or 1929 Sri Bhagavan asked Lakshmana Sarma, " Have you not read Ulladu Narpadu? " Lakshmana Sarma replied that he had not, because he was unable to understand the classical style of Tamil in which it was composed, but he eagerly added that he would like to study it if Sri Bhagavan would graciously teach him the meaning. Thus began the disciple's close association with his Master. Sri Bhagavan started to explain to him slowly and in detail the meaning of each verse, and Lakshmana Sarma, being a lover of Sanskrit, started to compose Sanskrit verses embodying the meaning of each Tamil verse as it was explained to him. After composing each verse in Sanskrit, Lakshmana Sarma submitted it to Sri Bhagavan for correction and approval, and if Sri Bhagavan's approval was not forthcoming he would recompose the verse as often as was necessary until His approval was obtained. In this way all the verses of Ulladu Narpadu were rendered into Sanskrit within a few months. But Lakshmana Sarma was unable to stop with that. He was so fascinated by the profound import of Ulladu Narpadu that he felt impelled to go on revising his Sanskrit rendering any number of times until he was able to make it an almost perfect and faithful replica of the Tamil original. For two or three years he went on repeatedly revising his translation with the close help and guidance of Sri Bhagavan, who always appreciated his sincere efforts and who once remarked, 'It is like a great tapas for him to go on revising his translation so many times.' Because of his repeated efforts to make such a faithful Sanskrit rendering of Ulladu Narpadu, Lakshmana Sarma was blessed with the opportunity of receiving long and pertinent instructions from Sri Bhagavan about the very core of His teachings. (From the Preface to " Maha Yoga " ) Best wishes and special pranams and thanks to Prof.VK Peter ----Original Message----- > advaitin > [advaitin ] On Behalf Of kuntimaddi sadananda > 31 March 2009 14:25 > advaitin > Re: NididhyAsana and Self-Enquiry > > > Prof. VK - PraNAms > > Yes Bhagavaan Ramana's text - sat DarshaNam - is very > profound and like his other text - Upadesa saara - is also > very contemplative text. I am taking Sat DarshaNam for this > coming Memorial Day - 2day spiritual camp here. Few years > back I took his other book - Upadesa saara. > > Prof. T.P. Mahadevan has written a commentary on the Sat > Darshanam - may be published by Ramanaashrama, not sure. > > There is also a commentary by one swami from Bangalore, based > on his lectures at Pune - forgot his name. > > Swami Tejomayanandaji also has a commentary, published by > Chinmaya Mission. > > I do not know if Swami Dayanandaji has commentary on it. > > Swami Paramaarthanandaji has taken the text and CD is > available at Chennai. > > Yes it is highly contemplative text and the mind should be > prepared to take the flight > > Hari Om! > Sadananda > > > > > --- On Tue, 3/31/09, V. Krishnamurthy <profvk wrote: > > > V. Krishnamurthy <profvk > NididhyAsana and Self-Enquiry > advaitin > Tuesday, March 31, 2009, 7:08 AM Namaste all, > > As I proceed with my translation from Tamil to English of > Lakshmana Sharma's commentary on Ramana's 'Ulladu Naarpadu' > (Reality in Forty Verses) in the other Group > (Harsha-satsangh) , this happens to be my first serious > exposure to Ramana Maharishi's messages and writings. > I get the feeling that Ramana's Self-Enquiry is the same > thing as the nididhyAsana of Vedanta that Brihad-Aranyaka- > Upanishad (II - 4 - v) speaks of. > > I would like members of this list to comment on, and > criticise, the above opinion of mine. Thank you for the help. > > PraNAms to all advaitins. > PraNAms to Bhagavan Ramana Maharishi. > profvk > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 --- On Tue, 3/31/09, Peter <not_2 wrote: Peter - PraNAms Thanks peter for the info. The Sat Darshanam, the sanskrit version is attributed I think to Ganapati Sastri who was also disciple of Ramana and I thought he is the one who called the sage as Bhagavaan Ramana Maharshi. I am not sure any other sanskrit translation of this tamil work of Ramana. Hari Om! Sadananda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 namaste Sadaaji, 'I do not know if Swami Dayanandaji has commentary on it'On 'Upadesha Saaram'. Swami Dayandji's lectres have been made into a book. printed in 1987. As far as I know this book is ot of stock.PraNamsLakshmi Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 advaitin , " Peter " <not_2 wrote: > Sri Lakshmana's first version of the > Forty Verses was in Sanskrit under the title of " Revelation " . His later > commentary based on what Bhagavan taught him was made in Tamil. It's > publication was urged by Bhagavan, though it has not been translated into > English until now. One day in 1928 or 1929 Sri Bhagavan asked Lakshmana > Sarma, " Have you not read Ulladu Narpadu? " Lakshmana Sarma replied that he > had not, because he was unable to understand the classical style of Tamil in > which it was composed, but he eagerly added that he would like to study it > if Sri Bhagavan would graciously teach him the meaning. Namaste, This book is now available in (Sanskrit) and English translation by David Godman at: [Ramana Para-Vidya Upanishad] downloadable - http://davidgodman.org/rteach/rpv_intro.shtml Regards, Sunder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Sadanandaji - Pranams, By way of information... It was Kavyakantha Ganapati Muni who bestowed the name Ramana Maharshi onto Bhagavan. Kapila Sastri was a student of Ganapati Muni's and a member of Sri Aurobindo's Ashram. Kapila Sastri wrote a commentary on some of Ganapati's works including Sat Darshanam. Lakshmana Sarma, a disciple of Bhagavan Ramana, wrote the first Sanskrit version of Ulladu Narpadu (otherwise known as Forty Verses on Reality/Existence) under the guidance of Bhagavan. This was eventually published as the little booklet called " Revelation " though the original title was " Sat Darshanam. " Ganapati Muni's version of Sat Darshanam was an adapted version of Lakshmana Sarma's which he composed when Lakshmana's version was sent to him to review. Gananpati even used the same title and published his version before Lakshmana. This may be why Lakshmana chose a different title ( " Revelation " ) in the end. Ganapati's version caused a bit of controversy at the time. On being given a copy of Lakshmana's Sanskrit version he had composed a poetic version based on Lakshmana's translation but using a shorter metre. Lakshmana and Bhagavan both noticed that the shorter metre of the verses had allowed Ganapati to water down and eliminate many of Bhagavan's advaitic statements to fit in with Ganapati's own tradition - the Sakta school. Bhagavan asked Lakshmana to resume his revision of his own translation employing a longer metre so as to convey accurately the whole meaning of the Tamil original. (Source: " The Power of the Presence " by David Godman: pp 165-167.) Best wishes, Peter > > advaitin > [advaitin ] On Behalf Of kuntimaddi sadananda > 31 March 2009 15:25 > advaitin > RE: NididhyAsana and Self-Enquiry > > > > --- On Tue, 3/31/09, Peter <not_2 wrote: > > Peter - PraNAms > > Thanks peter for the info. The Sat Darshanam, the sanskrit > version is attributed I think to Ganapati Sastri who was also > disciple of Ramana and I thought he is the one who called the > sage as Bhagavaan Ramana Maharshi. > I am not sure any other sanskrit translation of this tamil > work of Ramana. > > Hari Om! > Sadananda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 advaitin , Lakshmi Muthuswamy <lakmuthu wrote: > > namaste Sadaaji, > > > > 'I do not know if Swami Dayanandaji has commentary on it' > > On 'Upadesha Saaram'. Swami Dayandji's lectres have been made into a book. printed in 1987. As far as I know this book is ot of stock. > Namaste, The complete list of recordings (audio) is at: http://tinyurl.com/c5dkqz Regards, Sunder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 advaitin , Lakshmi Muthuswamy <lakmuthu wrote: > > namaste Sadaaji, > > > > 'I do not know if Swami Dayanandaji has commentary on it' > > On 'Upadesha Saaram'. Swami Dayandji's lectres have been made into a book. printed in 1987. As far as I know this book is ot of stock. > Namaste, The complete list of recordings (audio) is at: http://tinyurl.com/c5dkqz Regards, Sunder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 PranAms Prof-ji I do think there is a critical difference. Nidhidhyasana is not an independent action in of itself. It is very much a part of shravanam or hearing the words of the Shruti. One popularly, or generally, ascribes to Bhagwan Ramana a tradition consisting of a so-called "direct approach" where a constant and focussed "who am I" enquiry in of itself leads to self-knowledge when practiced over a length of time. It is not believed by his followers that such enquiry needs to be preceded by shravanam. The crucial point here has to do with the means of knowledge or pramana. Just as eyes are the pramana for sight the ONLY pramana for self-knowledge is shabda pramana - the Shruti statements - the mahavakyas. And this has to be taught by a qualified Guru. Only upon hearing the Shruti vakya in the form of the words of a Guru who Himself is a knower of the Truth and is wellversed in the Vedas can one gain this knowledge. So the means to liberation is selfknowledge and the means to selfknowledge is shravanam or hearing the words of the Shruti mahavakya. Shravanam is the primary means for bestowing jnaanam. Now even after the Guru has clearly and patiently explained tat tvam asi there may be obstacles that do not allow the clarity of this knowledge to crystallize - these may be in the form of doubts about the teaching - its possibility, its validity - mananam is an auxillary process to shravanam that helps resolves these doubts - both known and unknown - till the teaching is doubtlessly understood. A second obstacle is in the form of perfunctory modes of thought - I know I am Brahman but my in-laws bother me. We are habitually wedded to our dehatmabuddhi - there is a universal and habitual notion of taking Brahman, as an entity other than oneself - thanks to beginningless avidyA. Nidhidhyasanam then consists in directing our thoughts steadily towards the teachings already imbibed in shravanam - that which we have already been taught by our Guru - until there is steady and spontaneous abidance in that knowledge. So both mananam and nididhyasanam are very much included in shravanam alone. What reveals Atma is not the meditation or samadhi. What reveals Atma is also not the Atma itself. Atma being all there is and being ever present, there is no question of it revealing itSelf at some point in the future either. What reveals to me, the one with a false identity, my sense of my true identity is ONLY shravanam - hearing the words of the Shruti - as in the case of the 10th man whose only means of knowing that he himself was the 10th man to cross the river was the words of the teacher who gave him this knowledge. Nidhidhyasanam does not in any way convert or modiy this knowledge about my self, nor does it create any new knowledge about myself. For a Vedantin, who also takes up Ramana's teachings as part of his manamam, they represent a simple and wonderfully authentic and inspiring teachings of a Realized Master that may tremendously aid in ones understanding of the subject matter. But for someone who is looking for a "direct path" of self-enquiry, a meditative "who am I? who am I? ..." - that does not involve the use of Scriptural study as the primary means for self-knowledge, I think there is a serious scope of this being a misguided exercise in futility. Hari OM Shri Gurubhyoh namah Shyam--- On Tue, 3/31/09, V. Krishnamurthy <profvk wrote: V. Krishnamurthy <profvk NididhyAsana and Self-Enquiryadvaitin Date: Tuesday, March 31, 2009, 7:08 AM Namaste all,As I proceed with my translation from Tamil to English of Lakshmana Sharma's commentary on Ramana's 'Ulladu Naarpadu' (Reality in Forty Verses) in the other Group (Harsha-satsangh) , this happens to be my first serious exposure to Ramana Maharishi's messages and writings.I get the feeling that Ramana's Self-Enquiry is the same thing as the nididhyAsana of Vedanta that Brihad-Aranyaka- Upanishad (II - 4 - v) speaks of.I would like members of this list to comment on, and criticise, the above opinion of mine. Thank you for the help. PraNAms to all advaitins.PraNAms to Bhagavan Ramana Maharishi.profvk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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