Guest guest Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 Last year, Sastri-ji had posted to this list an article about Tantra. After getting Sastri-ji's permission, I had it in my notes to upload it when time permitted. So now it is up on the site. It is a short article titled, " What is Tantra? " and suitable for a brief and easy introduction to the topic. what-is-tantra-by-sri-sn-sastri Namaste and love to all Yours in Bhagavan Harsha advaitin [advaitin ] On Behalf Of bengt.frost Sunday, April 05, 2009 6:28 PM advaitin Re: The Method of Advaita Vedanta Dear Ramakrishna, Sri Vasudevacharya (formally Dr. Michael Comans) explanations of Advaita concepts, doctrines and interpretations of texts in his book seems very clarifying and are hopefully not " deceptive " . No doubt about it - this book looks very promising... Dhanyavaadaha Yours in Bhagavan -- Bengt Frost advaitin , " Ramakrishna Upadrasta " <uramakrishna wrote: > > Namaste, > > I have read only one of the books that you have asked about. > > > The Method of Early Advaita Vedanta: A Study of Gaudapada, Sankara, > > Suresvara and Padmapada by Michael Comans. > > http://www.amazon.com/Method-Early-Advaita-Vedanta-Gaudapada/dp/8120817222 > > I have read this book and I wholly recommend it. It is seemingly easy at > places but perhaps the easiness is deceptive. The arguments which Michael > Comans makes are very powerful and the terms he introduces are very precise, > which is not surprising considering that he is a student of Swami Dayananda. > > Many of the clarifications he gives are enlightening and very much > applicable to the " avidya controversy " . I completely agree with Dennis-ji's > amazon review for the book, when he says the following: " ... It does seem > that, as soon as you look in greater detail into something that you thought > you understood, you discover that there is much more to it than you had > thought and perhaps you didn't understand it properly after all.... " > > On a similar note, can anyone point to any location where can someone find > Doherty's thesis? I have read the following paper (and can pass it to anyone > interested, please send me an email), but want to see what is in her thesis > that is not already covered in the paper. > > http://www.springerlink.com/content/n46p4g760q053765/ > > praNAms to all Advaitins, > Ramakrishna > --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2009 Report Share Posted April 7, 2009 Dear sir, The statement is verily true that tantra has its presence in Veda. The *sanketa paddhati* or the *symbolism* in Veda in Tantra. However the statement " srutih dwividha proktau vaidiki tantriki cha " may not taste well for the hardcore smartas. This was the utterence of Kulluka Bhatta who observed the Sruti from different angle. For him, the sruti meant mantra shastra and hence he said that there are vaidika mantras and tantrika mantras. But, if we analyse the sruti, perse, it is *apaursheya* and *svatah pramana* (intrinsically self-valid and independant) whereas the Agama is *paratah pramana*. Also, the article says that Sir John Woodroofe is an " authority " in tantra shastra. No doubt, he was a good scholar and brought into limelight some of the wonderful tantras to the posterity. But some of his musings on on *Kamakalavilasa* cannot be digested by traditional Indian scholars of Tantra. By the way, the word *tantra* has its origin from the root *tan*. The vyutpatti is *tanyate vistaryate jnanam iti tantrah* ie., that which widens and enhances our knowledge is tantra. Also, tantra has a characteristic of having inter-woven thought processess with its root in a single cardinal principle. Just as the cloth is woven using the threads, tantra encompasses in The objective of the tantra is to maintain *secrecy* or *guptatva* or *rahasya*. There is a rk in veda which says " paroksha priya hi deva, pratyaksha dvishah " which means that " Gods prefer what is Secret and dislike what is obvious " . So, it is this " secrecy " or " gUdhatva " that has to be unraveled and the " spiritual teaching " behind this secrecy has to be discovered by sitting at the feet of realized master. The " secrecy " or " rahasya " has been maintained in Tantra in 6 different ways. They are: 1) Names of Devata (devata nama) 2) Ayudhas of Devatha (weapons of the deity) 3) Vehicles (vahana) of Devata 4) Devata murthi (sthula) (forms of devata) 5) Mantra Uddhara and Varna Sankhya of the Devata (number of letters and syllables in the mantra of the devata) 6) Twisting and jumbling of Devata Name. Using these above ways of " secrecy " , the tantrics have used " SANKETHA VIDYA " and intentionally and purposefully made certain principles a " SECRET " . They have 1) changed the form of word, twisted and jumbled keeping in view of the original meaning of the word 2) changed the form of word, twisted and jumbled the word and purposefully " camouflaging the meaning of the word " . In the Tantra, " bhaga " implies several meanings like yoni, trikona (triangle), sakthi etc. Sankara Bhagavatpada in his commentary on Brihadaranyaka Upanishad defines yoni as " adhara " / " asraya " which is otherwise called the substratum or base. Triputi (triad) of Jnatr, Jnana and Jneya is represented in the form of " downward triangle " which is the Kamakala or the Aham of Siva. This triad or triputi is called " Bhaga " . Yoni also means the same thing. The tantrics have camouflaged the meaning by denoting the letter " E " with the tantric script " downward triangle " . " trikona rupini sakthih " and " bindu rupah sivah smritah " says the tantra. So, the trikona or triangle is comprehended as Sakthi and Bindu or circle is understood as Siva. So, the tantra codifies the Absolute Principle as a *circle* and the Consciousness associated with it as *triangle* which is the basis of existence. And hence, the Sriyantra which is the symbolic representation of cosmos is represented as intersection of circle and triangle - a union of Siva (absolute principle) and sakti (consciousness). Also, the episode of Daksha Yajna (destruction of Daksha Sacrifice) has esoteric principle of Matrika vyavastha. The Rg mantra " aditerdaksho ajayata dakshatvaditih " (Rg Veda : 1st Mandala 1st suktha - 166 mantra) is to be correlated with the same Devi again being born as Dakshayani (Daksha Kanya). This Daksha Kanya is of the form of Vak. After her immolation, this Vak is been split into 50 parts as 50 matrikas which is Jagat Srushti. The Saktha Pitas are the symbolic representation of 50 matrikas. Even the father of Devi who is called " Himavan " or " Himagiri " is denoted as Parvata or Mountain. In vedic symbolism, Parvatha is denoted as " megha " . Parvatha is also called Giri. Giri also called Vak or Veda. So, Himagiri is also called " Effulgent Vak " or " Parama Vyoma " . Parvatha-tanaya is Parvathi which is Vak Swarupini. She is Haimavathi. Parvathi or Haimavathi is the Uma Devi in form of effulgent and resplendent Vak (Pranava Swarupini – the word UMA has been derived from OM). Hence, Indra in Keno Upanishad exclaims in ecstasy as " umaam haimavathim bahushobhamanaa " . Infact Vak and its Matrikas has been revealed to the posterity by tantrics during the period of post-daksha yajna. Prior to this episode, the Devi was worshipped as Chit Kala in the state of Non-objective Bliss. This was also the notion of Mahakavi Kalidas which he mentions in " Kumara Sambhava " . He says that Haimavathi or Parvathi was being worshipped as Vak as " Nirvishaya Jnana Swarupini " " Non-objective Bliss " which is non-separable from Artha (Parama Siva) prior to the Daksha Sacrifice. Before this Daksha Sacrifice episode, the Devi was worshipped as Nirvishaya Tattva but the upasana of Vak in the form of Matrikas was the tantric concept which was formulated after this episode. Entire Matrika Vyavastha was visualized by vedic seers and tantrics only after the episode of distribution of 50 parts of the body of Sati in the country which came to be known as " SAKTHA PITAS " . The episode of Dakshayani in the form of Sati immolating herself in the homa kunda, and her body being cut into 50 parts and these 50 parts of her body falling all over the country is the tantric aspect of formulation of Matrikas which was a REVELETION in Srividya upasana. So, Devi in the form of Avyaktha Tattva with Paramapurusha took the birth the form of Vyaktha Vak as Dakshayani. This Vak is Sati who is ever-united with Siva. Disappearance of Sati is her lila ie., she is not visible to physical eyes but only through yogic eyes. Sati is ever-united with Siva inspite of her disappearance. This Vak got split itself into 50 MATRIKAS as 50 SAKTHA PITAS. The father of Haimavati is Himavan which represents " vyoma " tattva (as per Ganapati Muni). Whereas my gurunatha interprets this as " effulgent Vak " . Haimavati is the tattva that is pranava-pratipaadya. She is also called Parvathi (Parvata-tanaya). Parvata is also called Veda, Pranava, Vak, Vyoma. These are synonyms. And this episode of " immolation of Sati and severing her body into 50 parts " was a revelation and break-through among the vedic seers and tantrics in visualizing the Vak and its Matrika Vyavastha in the form of 50 shaktha peetas. This entire episode is just the Divine Sport of Devi. And hence, she is called " dakshaprajapathi sutha veshaadyayai namo namah " . With regards, Sriram , " srinivasrao197080 " <srinivasrao197080 wrote: > > Dear sriram > > Goodmorning. In your mail, you have mentioned a term " vedic symbolism " . > Is this in any way related to " Rahasya or Gopya " (secrecy) in tantra. > > There are certain words in tantra that have to be understood from guru > like certain words " bhaga " , " yoni " etc. I have understood what the > term " yoni " means. It is the kamakala akshara swarupa and its tantric > script is " downward triangle " . Even i have heard that the > mythological episode " daksha yajna " is related to tantra and veda. If > yes, in what way. > > S.Rao > The mythological episode of " daksha sacrifice " is also a secret of tantra and veda. Some of the aspects of this sacrifice is also mentioned in Veda. It says that devatas had performed the sacrifice without the presence of Rudra. Instead the Pushan (the Rg Vedic God of Agriculture and bestower of Strength) was to partake the havis and instead broke his tooth (something that resembles with the breaking of the tooth of Sun by Virabhadra). The " avyaktha paramapurusha " has become " vyktha purusha " with a sense of I-ness which is the cause of creation. This " vyaktha purusha " is called Daksha. Rg Veda visualizes " Daksha " as the " first born being " or the " first born jiva " in the form of " prajapathi " . The 1st mandala of Rg Veda says that " non-being and being are in the highest heavens " . Parama Purusha resides in " parama vyoma " / highest heavens and vyaktha purusha in the form of Daksha resides in `vyoma' or `akasa'. Devi Dakshayani is born to this Prajapathi Daksha. The undifferentiated prakriti that is with purusha is called Satyah. The prathama vibhakti in singular form of " satyah " is addressed as " sati " . Satyah denotes the omnipresent sakthi in un-differentiated state with Paramapurusha. So, " sati " is also omnipresent and ever- united with Paramapurusha rupa Siva. The rg veda says that " aditerdaksho ajayata dakshatvaditih " . The mother of devatas `Aditi' is born again as `Aditi' from Daksha. So, it is the Devi which was in un-differentiated state with Purusha was born as Dakshayani – the Daksha Kanya. Her disappearance in the form of Yoga Agni is the symbolic representation to denote that " she is always present in the form of Chit but only visible to yogic eye " . So, the Rg mantra " aditerdaksho ajayata dakshatvaditih " (Rg Veda : 1st Mandala 1st suktha - 166 mantra) is to be correlated with the same Devi again being born as Dakshayani (Daksha Kanya). This Daksha Kanya is of the form of Vak. After her immolation, this Vak is been split into 50 parts as 50 matrikas which is Jagat Srushti. The Saktha Pitas are the symbolic representation of 50 matrikas. Even the father of Devi who is called " Himavan " or " Himagiri " is denoted as Parvata or Mountain. In vedic symbolism, Parvatha is denoted as " megha " . Parvatha is also called Giri. Giri also called Vak or Veda. So, Himagiri is also called " Effulgent Vak " or " Parama Vyoma " . Parvatha-tanaya is Parvathi which is Vak Swarupini. She is Haimavathi. Parvathi or Haimavathi is the Uma Devi in form of effulgent and resplendent Vak (Pranava Swarupini – the word UMA has been derived from OM). Hence, Indra in Keno Upanishad exclaims in ecstasy as " umaam haimavathim bahushobhamanaa " . Infact from what I have learnt from my elders is that the origin of cult of Srividya in the form of Vak and its Matrikas has been revealed to the posterity by tantrics during the period of post-daksha yajna. Prior to this episode, the Devi was worshipped as Chit Kala in the state of Non-objective Bliss. This was also the notion of Mahakavi Kalidas which he mentions in " Kumara Sambhava " . He says that Haimavathi or Parvathi was being worshipped as Vak as " Nirvishaya Jnana Swarupini " " Non-objective Bliss " which is non-separable from Artha (Parama Siva) prior to the Daksha Sacrifice. Before this Daksha Sacrifice episode, the Devi was worshipped as Nirvishaya Tattva but the upasana of Vak in the form of Matrikas was the tantric concept which was formulated after this episode. Entire Matrika Vyavastha was visualized by vedic seers and tantrics only after the episode of distribution of 50 parts of the body of Sati in the country which came to be known as " SAKTHA PITAS " . The episode of Dakshayani in the form of Sati immolating herself in the homa kunda, and her body being cut into 50 parts and these 50 parts of her body falling all over the country is the tantric aspect of formulation of Matrikas which was a REVELETION in Srividya upasana. So, Devi in the form of Avyaktha Tattva with Paramapurusha took the birth the form of Vyaktha Vak as Dakshayani. This Vak is Sati who is ever-united with Siva. Disappearance of Sati is her lila ie., she is not visible to physical eyes but only through yogic eyes. Sati is ever-united with Siva inspite of her disappearance. This Vak got split itself into 50 MATRIKAS as 50 SAKTHA PITAS. The father of Haimavati is Himavan which represents " vyoma " tattva (as per Ganapati Muni). Whereas my gurunatha interprets this as " effulgent Vak " . Haimavati is the tattva that is pranava-pratipaadya. She is also called Parvathi (Parvata-tanaya). Parvata is also called Veda,Pranava, Vak, Vyoma. These are synonyms. With regards, Sriram advaitin , " Harsha " wrote: > > Last year, Sastri-ji had posted to this list an article about Tantra. After > getting Sastri-ji's permission, I had it in my notes to upload it when time > permitted. So now it is up on the site. It is a short article titled, " What > is Tantra? " and suitable for a brief and easy introduction to the topic. > > > what-is-tantra-by-sri-sn-sastri > > Namaste and love to all > > Yours in Bhagavan > Harsha > > > > > advaitin [advaitin ] On Behalf > Of bengt.frost > Sunday, April 05, 2009 6:28 PM > advaitin > Re: The Method of Advaita Vedanta > > Dear Ramakrishna, > > Sri Vasudevacharya (formally Dr. Michael Comans) explanations of Advaita > concepts, > doctrines and interpretations of texts in his book seems very clarifying and > are > hopefully not " deceptive " . No doubt about it - this book looks very > promising... > > Dhanyavaadaha > > Yours in Bhagavan > -- Bengt Frost > > advaitin , " Ramakrishna Upadrasta " <uramakrishna@> > wrote: > > > > Namaste, > > > > I have read only one of the books that you have asked about. > > > > > The Method of Early Advaita Vedanta: A Study of Gaudapada, Sankara, > > > Suresvara and Padmapada by Michael Comans. > > > > http://www.amazon.com/Method-Early-Advaita-Vedanta-Gaudapada/dp/8120817222 > > > > I have read this book and I wholly recommend it. It is seemingly easy at > > places but perhaps the easiness is deceptive. The arguments which Michael > > Comans makes are very powerful and the terms he introduces are very > precise, > > which is not surprising considering that he is a student of Swami > Dayananda. > > > > Many of the clarifications he gives are enlightening and very much > > applicable to the " avidya controversy " . I completely agree with > Dennis-ji's > > amazon review for the book, when he says the following: " ... It does seem > > that, as soon as you look in greater detail into something that you > thought > > you understood, you discover that there is much more to it than you had > > thought and perhaps you didn't understand it properly after all.... " > > > > On a similar note, can anyone point to any location where can someone find > > Doherty's thesis? I have read the following paper (and can pass it to > anyone > > interested, please send me an email), but want to see what is in her > thesis > > that is not already covered in the paper. > > > > http://www.springerlink.com/content/n46p4g760q053765/ > > > > praNAms to all Advaitins, > > Ramakrishna > > > > > > > --- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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