Guest guest Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 PraNAms to all Just some thoughts after looking our some of the recent mails - related to: - Internal guru vs. external guru - Vedas and religion - Who am I enquiry and aham brahmaasmi -What is internal and what is external - before we go to a guru? -No one in this group has realized! First we cannot tell if anyone is realized or not – so let us not pass judgments about others. The best we can know only about ourselves. – If we really understand who am I - then the others automatically realize when I realize - I realize that the whole thing is just vibhuuti of Iswara, nay My Own Self – It is just the Lord in various names and forms and Lord need not have to realize. External and internal is only with reference to body, mind and intellect - can there by any other way? The mind and intellect along with memory and ahankaara are called antaHkaraNa - internal instruments while Body which is obviously in relation to antaHkaraNa is external. Let us get this reference properly, otherwise we will be confusing others too. Consciousness which is all pervading can be neither external nor internal by definition, and that is also Brahman that is infiniteness (prajnaanam brahma). Hence it is futile to talk in terms of internal and external guru with reference to the all pervading consciousness or the self. BMI is inert and incapable of being a guru or shishya. Consciousness need not have to do anything or cannot do anything - leaving alone learning or teaching. Now who is shishya and who is guru, internal or external? - guru naiva na shishyaH, cidaananda ruupaH, sivoham sivoham. - that is, once I know I am what I am, pure existence-consciousness. Until then we have shishya and guru-separate - they cannot be one and the same. I, a conscious entity, identified with BMI, feel the limitations of BMI as my limitations -and take myself to be a limited entity, jiiva. Who is that I, who identifies with BMI? The pure consciousness need not and cannot do that, being infinite and being one without a second even to claim that there is something else to identify with. This is where we need to bring in chidaabhaasa or reflected or conditioned consciousness to explain the unexplainable. Pure consciousness, as though, reflected in the pool of mind is chidaabhaasa the reflected consciousness. One can call this as conditioned consciousness or saakshii or upahita caitanya, depending on what role one can assign to it. The reflection obviously depends on the purity of the reflecting medium, the mind (here M and I are identified as one subtle body)-In the 13 ch. that we are studying - Krishna says: UpadrashTaanumantaa ca, bhartaa bhoktaa maheswaraH .. depending on the role that the reflected consciousness is assumed or assigned. Saakshii caitanya is by definition is saakshii or witness, it cannot teach either being just a witness - it can watch the teaching going on. Along with the general reflection of the mind, the vRittis (thoughts) that arise in the mind that are related to objective thoughts also get reflected by the consciousness and that is how the knowledge of particular thoughts takes place. There are no subjective thoughts - other than objective thoughts about the subject. Who am I enquiry is thought process - if there are no thoughts as in deep sleep three is no who am I enquiry. One can enquire - who am I- only based on the knowledge that have gained. I can enquire about any thing new, based on what I already know - that is how all the research is done going from known to unknown using the intellect. There is no other way. The teacher or guide in any subject comes external to BMI who can help me to direct my thoughts in proper direction - Hence we chant the gurustotram that involves salutation to the guru who is helping to point in the right direction - tat padam darshitam ena tasmai gurave namaH| Salutations to that guru who is pointing me in the right direction to inquire - that which pervades all the cara and acara - movable and immovable - that consciousness because of which I am conscious of the whole world, including the external teacher and the teaching - to that teacher my prostrations - akhanDa manDalaakaaram vyaaptam ena cara - cinmayam vyapti yas sarvam, trailokyam ca caraacaram. Once I have clearly understanding of what to inquire and the direction to inquire, the teacher has done his job. Then I can invoke that teacher in my own mind and get guidance in the sense that the teaching that he has already done to help me in my further inquiry for me so that I can abide myself in that knowledge. That help comes from my own mind with the invocation of the Teacher or even the Lord once I have clearly understood the essence of the truth and the direction to proceed. Until then I need proper guidance in any field of study. People who have sufficient knowledge can do their own research to discover the truth. The same is true in Adhyaatam vidya. Ph.D, NORMALLY implies that one can do further research by himself without any further guidance. Some people do post-doctorate work to get additional help. Only a prepared mind can have sufficient knowledge to inquire within without any need of any external teacher- until I am fully established in the knowledge that I am the consciousness that is reflecting everything by its very presence without itself doing any reflecting action. Now about Vedas and Religion: Vedas have two components - the karma khaaDa and jnaanakhaanDa - the ritualistic part and knowledge part. The ritualistic part prepares the mind for the knowledge. Any saadhana is religion and goal is beyond any religion; that is jnaana. Vedanta is not a religion (it is sanaatana dharma) , it provides the knowledge of the jiiva, jagat and Iswara - all nine yards - which is what is involved in understanding who am I - that I which is the substantive of jiiva, jagat and Iswara - that teaching required to direct the mind to inquire properly. Vedanta is like mirror that shows me who I am in relation to what I think I am - that is the turiiyam discussed in the ManDukya Upanishad. Let us not jumble up the words, That Veda, religion and who am I inquiry are different etc. Religion provides a saadhana to purify the mind so that it can take-off with proper teaching. Any saadhana is religion and depends on the saadhaka. Vedanta tell us what and how to direct the thinking for the enquiry of who that I am is - which is substantive of jiiva, jagat and Iswara. If properly understood and direct the inquiry within - one recognizes the essential truth indicated by Vedanta - aham brahmaasmi. That is the recognition that there is neither teacher nor student and I am Shiva himself - sivoham - sivoham. Until then - Krishna show the evolution of the mind - upadraShTaanumantaa ca .. Starting from I am witness ending up with - I am the whole. Hari Om! Sadananda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 Dear It is to be noted that *who am I* is not a *intellectual* enquiry to be pursued. It is the upasana of *Aham* which is the upasana of Vak - the Great Goddess of Speech which is described in Vedas as Vak / Tripurasundari. According to legend, the 14 Maheshwara Sutras were revealed to Panini, Vyaghrapada, Upamanyu and other sages by Shiva. Panini then then composed his grammar called Ashtadhyayi which is based on the 14 Sutras that were revealed during the Cosmic Dance of Shiva. They are also called the Maheshvara Sutras. At the end of the Shiva’s Cosmic Dance, he sounded his Damaruka 14 times. And from these 14 Sounds of Damaruka, evolved 14 Sutras. These 14 sutras encompass the phonetics of the Sanskrit language. The first 4 sutras cover all the vowels. They are : 1) a i u n 2) r l k 3) e o n 4) ai au ch. Omit the last letter of the 4 sutras and they are a, i, u, r, l, e, o, ai, au. The entire 16 vowels from A to AHA have emanated from these letters. The Last 10 sutras include all the consonants. They are : 5) h y v r t; 6) l n;7) n m n n n m 8) jh bh n 9) gh dh dh s 10) j b g d d s 11) kh ph ch th th ca t t v 12) k p y 13) s s s r; 14. h l. Omit the last letter of these 10 sutras, they become entire 34 consonants ie., from K to HA. The SRICHAKRA is constructed keeping in view these entire set of 14 sutras. Ashtadhyayi divides these 14 formulae into 43 letters which become the 43 Angles of Sriyantra. The entire Matrikas (letters) ie., 16 vowels and 34 consonants have evolved from these 14 Maheshwara Sutras. The 16 Vowels and 34 Consonants have become 50 Matrikas of Letters.. They are the Saktha Pitas of Sridevi. Every Matrika has a distinct Power and Seat of Origin in our Body. These Matrikas are presided by a distinct and corresponding Devis that govern that particular seat of origin (Pita) in our Body. These Cosmic Powers that preside over each Matrika is invoked during the Antarmatrika and Bahir Matrika Nyasas. It is to be noted that the Kamakala Akshara is derived from these 14 sutras. This *AHAM* is the essence of all the Mantras, Vedas, Upanishads as these fall in between A (WHICH IS 1ST VOWEL) AND H (WHICH IS THE LAST CONSONANT). From the first sutra, A is taken and from the last Sutra H is taken. Bindu is added and its becomes AHAM. This is the AHAM swarupa or the I-NESS of Maheswara which is of the form of CHIT. It is from this AHAM of the Siva, the entire Cosmos in the form of Matrikas have evolved. This AHAM is the KAMAKALA. The entire vowels and consonants fall in between this A and H. The Tantric script encodes this principle of AHAM and depicts as a INVERTED TRIANGLE which is a representation of Triputi or Triad in the form of External Object perceived, Knowledge or Perception, Observer or Perceiver otherwise called Jnatr-Jnana-Jneya. Veda & Tantra paves the way for the piercing of this Triad which is called TRIPUTI-BHEDANA. And the methodology employed is *AHAMGRAHOPASANA* through Sagunopasana. When Vashishta Ganapati Muni pleaded for guidance in sadhana, Bhagavan asked the Muni to enquire the Source of the Panchakshari Mantra (NAMA SIVAYA) which is invariably collection of 5 letters in the form of Speech. And the root of all mantras in the form of Speech is *A-HA-Bindu*. A is the 1st vowel; Ha is the Last Consonant; M-the Bindu; which is AHAM. This is what is the essence of VAK Sukta in Rg Veda which starts with *Aham rudrebhir vasubhischarami..........*. Bhagavan Ramana Maharishi wants us to catch hold of this AHAM is the source of Speech and which shines in the cave of our heart. (vide ref: Ramana Gita). The speech has 4 stages of evolution whose order of evolution is : 1) Para 2) Pashyanti 3) madhyama 4) Vaikhari. Vaikhari is the Articular Sound what we hear. The source of this Articulate Sound is Para which originates from Heart Cave where throbs our consciousness in the form of *AHAM* (hridaya kuhara madhye aham aham iti sphurantam...). It is this throb or Antah sphurana, Bhagavan urges us to realise. It is this *Aham throb* or *Antah-sphurana* which is *Brahma*. And hence, Bhagavan says in ECSTASY as *Aham* *Brahma* *Asmi*. It is verily this *I* which shines in the heart cave as *Aham* which the Bhagavn says as Brahman. Now, what Acharya Sankara says about the Upasana of *Aham*, let us see.. Acharya Sankara gives us a wonderful hymn for meditation, contemplation and reflection which is called *Dakshinamurthy Stotram* (DS). Acharya has divided the entire hymn into 3 principles : Jiva, Jagat & Ishwara. And later, he gives a clue for the Upasana which is quite *mandatory* who are into the upasana of *aham* principle. What exactly is this *aham*, is wonderfully given in the sloka *bAlyAdiShvapi.......AHAM iti antahsphurantam sadA....* of DS. Now, how to enquire the root of this *aham* or *I-ness*, Acharya has hinted in the subsequent sloka and the type of upasana to be undertaken. It is the *ahamgrahopasana* alongwith Sagunopasana which is suggested here. When this upasana reaches the state of culmination, it is the realisation in *ECSTASY* that this *aham* or *antah-sphuraNa* is Brahman which is the essence of Mahavakya *aham brahmasmi*. Mahavakyas are the *GREAT UTTERANCES IN ECSTASY* by our vedic seers. Even in deep reflection and sadhana, when the upasaka reaches the highest pinnacle of spiritual illumination, both the terms *aham* and *brahma* drops off and what remains is ASMI. And this state is wonderfully explained in the Rg veda in *Hymn of Creation or *Nasadiya Sukta*. I repeat: Mahavakyas are the *GREAT UTTERENCES IN SPIRITUAL ECSTASY*. Acharya Sankara also hints in his Sutra Bhashya about the sagunopasana.. He says: "apratyAkhyAyaina kAryaprapancham, PARINAMAPRAKRRIYAM CHA shrayati SAGUNESHuPASANESHUP AYOKSHYA te iti". Also, in the 1st adhyaya for the sutra "tad adhInatvA darthavat", Acharya Sankara explains the principle of Sakti to be the upAdana kAraNa for paramEshwara in the Creation. Acharya Sankara emphatically says that it is the Parinamavada to be adopted to achieve the Sagunopasana Siddhi and not for kArya-prapancha (jagat) siddhi. Acharya Sankara in his sutra bhashya says that parinamavada (theory of transformaton) can be adopted for the purpose of saguna upasana which is the upasana of maya-sabala brahman where the substratum is Brahman only. When the upasana is ripe, and upon the dawn of right knowledge, the "reality" which the "ignorant" people perceive WOULD BECOME an "illusion". So, what i conclude is that Bhagavan's Teaching is not new and is not an *Intellectual Enquiry*. It is verily the *Veda Vidya* handed down to us. Bhagavan embodies in himself the *Spirit of Vedic Seer*. Bhagavan's teaching is the upasana of Vak. Bhagavan was verily the form of Dakshinamurthy who taught the Upasana of Vak in the form of *Silence*. It is this *silence* which is called Para-vak. It is this Para-Vak which sports in the deep chasms of our heart as *I* or *Aham*. The vedas and Tantra declare this Para-Vak as Tripurasundari - which is the Great Triangle in Sriyantra and the substratum of this Para-Vak is the Absolute Principle in the Form of Shiva which is depicted as Circle or Bindu in Sriyantra. Sriyantra is the diagrammaticrepresentation of AHAM and Srividya is the Upasana of Vak in the form of *Ahamgrahopasana*. And hence, to evolve a method for this *ahamgrahopasana*, Srividya Tantra is evolved. It is interesting to note that Bhagavan himself did the prana pratishta of Sriyantra at the samadhi of His mother. tamai shri gurumurtaye namah idam shri dakshinamurthaye.... with regs, sriram --- On Fri, 10/4/09, kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada wrote: kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada Some CommentsadvaitinDate: Friday, 10 April, 2009, 6:01 PM PraNAms to allJust some thoughts after looking our some of the recent mails - related to:- Internal guru vs. external guru- Vedas and religion- Who am I enquiry and aham brahmaasmi -What is internal and what is external - before we go to a guru?-No one in this group has realized! First we cannot tell if anyone is realized or not – so let us not pass judgments about others. The best we can know only about ourselves. – If we really understand who am I - then the others automatically realize when I realize - I realize that the whole thing is just vibhuuti of Iswara, nay My Own Self – It is just the Lord in various names and forms and Lord need not have to realize. External and internal is only with reference to body, mind and intellect - can there by any other way? The mind and intellect along with memory and ahankaara are called antaHkaraNa - internal instruments while Body which is obviously in relation to antaHkaraNa is external. Let us get this reference properly, otherwise we will be confusing others too. Consciousness which is all pervading can be neither external nor internal by definition, and that is also Brahman that is infiniteness (prajnaanam brahma). Hence it is futile to talk in terms of internal and external guru with reference to the all pervading consciousness or the self.BMI is inert and incapable of being a guru or shishya.Consciousness need not have to do anything or cannot do anything - leaving alone learning or teaching.Now who is shishya and who is guru, internal or external? - guru naiva na shishyaH, cidaananda ruupaH, sivoham sivoham. - that is, once I know I am what I am, pure existence-conscious ness.Until then we have shishya and guru-separate - they cannot be one and the same.I, a conscious entity, identified with BMI, feel the limitations of BMI as my limitations -and take myself to be a limited entity, jiiva. Who is that I, who identifies with BMI? The pure consciousness need not and cannot do that, being infinite and being one without a second even to claim that there is something else to identify with. This is where we need to bring in chidaabhaasa or reflected or conditioned consciousness to explain the unexplainable. Pure consciousness, as though, reflected in the pool of mind is chidaabhaasa the reflected consciousness. One can call this as conditioned consciousness or saakshii or upahita caitanya, depending on what role one can assign to it. The reflection obviously depends on the purity of the reflecting medium, the mind (here M and I are identified as one subtle body)-In the 13 ch. that we are studying - Krishna says: UpadrashTaanumantaa ca, bhartaa bhoktaa maheswaraH .. depending on the role that the reflected consciousness is assumed or assigned.Saakshii caitanya is by definition is saakshii or witness, it cannot teach either being just a witness - it can watch the teaching going on. Along with the general reflection of the mind, the vRittis (thoughts) that arise in the mind that are related to objective thoughts also get reflected by the consciousness and that is how the knowledge of particular thoughts takes place. There are no subjective thoughts - other than objective thoughts about the subject. Who am I enquiry is thought process - if there are no thoughts as in deep sleep three is no who am I enquiry. One can enquire - who am I- only based on the knowledge that have gained. I can enquire about any thing new, based on what I already know - that is how all the research is done going from known to unknown using the intellect. There is no other way.The teacher or guide in any subject comes external to BMI who can help me to direct my thoughts in proper direction - Hence we chant the gurustotram that involves salutation to the guru who is helping to point in the right direction - tat padam darshitam ena tasmai gurave namaH| Salutations to that guru who is pointing me in the right direction to inquire - that which pervades all the cara and acara - movable and immovable - that consciousness because of which I am conscious of the whole world, including the external teacher and the teaching - to that teacher my prostrations - akhanDa manDalaakaaram vyaaptam ena cara - cinmayam vyapti yas sarvam, trailokyam ca caraacaram.Once I have clearly understanding of what to inquire and the direction to inquire, the teacher has done his job.Then I can invoke that teacher in my own mind and get guidance in the sense that the teaching that he has already done to help me in my further inquiry for me so that I can abide myself in that knowledge. That help comes from my own mind with the invocation of the Teacher or even the Lord once I have clearly understood the essence of the truth and the direction to proceed. Until then I need proper guidance in any field of study. People who have sufficient knowledge can do their own research to discover the truth. The same is true in Adhyaatam vidya. Ph.D, NORMALLY implies that one can do further research by himself without any further guidance. Some people do post-doctorate work to get additional help. Only a prepared mind can have sufficient knowledge to inquire within without any need of any external teacher- until I am fully established in the knowledge that I am the consciousness that is reflecting everything by its very presence without itself doing any reflecting action.Now about Vedas and Religion:Vedas have two components - the karma khaaDa and jnaanakhaanDa - the ritualistic part and knowledge part. The ritualistic part prepares the mind for the knowledge. Any saadhana is religion and goal is beyond any religion; that is jnaana. Vedanta is not a religion (it is sanaatana dharma) , it provides the knowledge of the jiiva, jagat and Iswara - all nine yards - which is what is involved in understanding who am I - that I which is the substantive of jiiva, jagat and Iswara - that teaching required to direct the mind to inquire properly. Vedanta is like mirror that shows me who I am in relation to what I think I am - that is the turiiyam discussed in the ManDukya Upanishad. Let us not jumble up the words, That Veda, religion and who am I inquiry are different etc. Religion provides a saadhana to purify the mind so that it can take-off with proper teaching. Any saadhana is religion and depends on the saadhaka. Vedanta tell us what and how to direct thethinking for the enquiry of who that I am is - which is substantive of jiiva, jagat and Iswara.If properly understood and direct the inquiry within - one recognizes the essential truth indicated by Vedanta - aham brahmaasmi. That is the recognition that there is neither teacher nor student and I am Shiva himself - sivoham - sivoham.Until then - Krishna show the evolution of the mind - upadraShTaanumantaa ca .. Starting from I am witness ending up with - I am the whole.Hari Om!Sadananda Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 Dear Venkat-ji: If you wish, I can upload this to my blog. Or if it is already somewhere on the web, I can note that on the blog. Namaste and love Yours in Bhagavan Harsha advaitin [advaitin ] On Behalf Of venkata sriram Friday, April 10, 2009 10:57 AM advaitin Re: Some Comments Dear It is to be noted that *who am I* is not a *intellectual* enquiry to be pursued. It is the upasana of *Aham* which is the upasana of Vak - the Great Goddess of Speech which is described in Vedas as Vak / Tripurasundari. According to legend, the 14 Maheshwara Sutras were revealed to Panini, Vyaghrapada, Upamanyu and other sages by Shiva. Panini then then composed his grammar called Ashtadhyayi which is based on the 14 Sutras that were revealed during the Cosmic Dance of Shiva. They are also called the Maheshvara Sutras. At the end of the Shiva’s Cosmic Dance, he sounded his Damaruka 14 times. And from these 14 Sounds of Damaruka, evolved 14 Sutras. These 14 sutras encompass the phonetics of the Sanskrit language. The first 4 sutras cover all the vowels. They are : 1) a i u n 2) r l k 3) e o n 4) ai au ch. Omit the last letter of the 4 sutras and they are a, i, u, r, l, e, o, ai, au. The entire 16 vowels from A to AHA have emanated from these letters. The Last 10 sutras include all the consonants. They are : 5) h y v r t; 6) l n; 7) n m n n n m 8) jh bh n 9) gh dh dh s 10) j b g d d s 11) kh ph ch th th ca t t v 12) k p y 13) s s s r; 14. h l. Omit the last letter of these 10 sutras, they become entire 34 consonants ie., from K to HA. The SRICHAKRA is constructed keeping in view these entire set of 14 sutras. Ashtadhyayi divides these 14 formulae into 43 letters which become the 43 Angles of Sriyantra. The entire Matrikas (letters) ie., 16 vowels and 34 consonants have evolved from these 14 Maheshwara Sutras. The 16 Vowels and 34 Consonants have become 50 Matrikas of Letters.. They are the Saktha Pitas of Sridevi. Every Matrika has a distinct Power and Seat of Origin in our Body. These Matrikas are presided by a distinct and corresponding Devis that govern that particular seat of origin (Pita) in our Body. These Cosmic Powers that preside over each Matrika is invoked during the Antarmatrika and Bahir Matrika Nyasas. It is to be noted that the Kamakala Akshara is derived from these 14 sutras. This *AHAM* is the essence of all the Mantras, Vedas, Upanishads as these fall in between A (WHICH IS 1ST VOWEL) AND H (WHICH IS THE LAST CONSONANT). From the first sutra, A is taken and from the last Sutra H is taken. Bindu is added and its becomes AHAM. This is the AHAM swarupa or the I-NESS of Maheswara which is of the form of CHIT. It is from this AHAM of the Siva, the entire Cosmos in the form of Matrikas have evolved. This AHAM is the KAMAKALA. The entire vowels and consonants fall in between this A and H. The Tantric script encodes this principle of AHAM and depicts as a INVERTED TRIANGLE which is a representation of Triputi or Triad in the form of External Object perceived, Knowledge or Perception, Observer or Perceiver otherwise called Jnatr-Jnana-Jneya. Veda & Tantra paves the way for the piercing of this Triad which is called TRIPUTI-BHEDANA. And the methodology employed is *AHAMGRAHOPASANA* through Sagunopasana. When Vashishta Ganapati Muni pleaded for guidance in sadhana, Bhagavan asked the Muni to enquire the Source of the Panchakshari Mantra (NAMA SIVAYA) which is invariably collection of 5 letters in the form of Speech. And the root of all mantras in the form of Speech is *A-HA-Bindu*. A is the 1st vowel; Ha is the Last Consonant; M-the Bindu; which is AHAM. This is what is the essence of VAK Sukta in Rg Veda which starts with *Aham rudrebhir vasubhischarami..........*. Bhagavan Ramana Maharishi wants us to catch hold of this AHAM is the source of Speech and which shines in the cave of our heart. (vide ref: Ramana Gita). The speech has 4 stages of evolution whose order of evolution is : 1) Para 2) Pashyanti 3) madhyama 4) Vaikhari. Vaikhari is the Articular Sound what we hear. The source of this Articulate Sound is Para which originates from Heart Cave where throbs our consciousness in the form of *AHAM* (hridaya kuhara madhye aham aham iti sphurantam...). It is this throb or Antah sphurana, Bhagavan urges us to realise. It is this *Aham throb* or *Antah-sphurana* which is *Brahma*. And hence, Bhagavan says in ECSTASY as *Aham* *Brahma* *Asmi*. It is verily this *I* which shines in the heart cave as *Aham* which the Bhagavn says as Brahman. Now, what Acharya Sankara says about the Upasana of *Aham*, let us see.. Acharya Sankara gives us a wonderful hymn for meditation, contemplation and reflection which is called *Dakshinamurthy Stotram* (DS). Acharya has divided the entire hymn into 3 principles : Jiva, Jagat & Ishwara. And later, he gives a clue for the Upasana which is quite *mandatory* who are into the upasana of *aham* principle. What exactly is this *aham*, is wonderfully given in the sloka *bAlyAdiShvapi.......AHAM iti antahsphurantam sadA....* of DS. Now, how to enquire the root of this *aham* or *I-ness*, Acharya has hinted in the subsequent sloka and the type of upasana to be undertaken. It is the *ahamgrahopasana* alongwith Sagunopasana which is suggested here. When this upasana reaches the state of culmination, it is the realisation in *ECSTASY* that this *aham* or *antah-sphuraNa* is Brahman which is the essence of Mahavakya *aham brahmasmi*. Mahavakyas are the *GREAT UTTERANCES IN ECSTASY* by our vedic seers. Even in deep reflection and sadhana, when the upasaka reaches the highest pinnacle of spiritual illumination, both the terms *aham* and *brahma* drops off and what remains is ASMI. And this state is wonderfully explained in the Rg veda in *Hymn of Creation or *Nasadiya Sukta*. I repeat: Mahavakyas are the *GREAT UTTERENCES IN SPIRITUAL ECSTASY*. Acharya Sankara also hints in his Sutra Bhashya about the sagunopasana.. He says: " apratyAkhyAyaina kAryaprapancham, PARINAMAPRAKRRIYAM CHA shrayati SAGUNESHuPASANESHUP AYOKSHYA te iti " . Also, in the 1st adhyaya for the sutra " tad adhInatvA darthavat " , Acharya Sankara explains the principle of Sakti to be the upAdana kAraNa for paramEshwara in the Creation. Acharya Sankara emphatically says that it is the Parinamavada to be adopted to achieve the Sagunopasana Siddhi and not for kArya-prapancha (jagat) siddhi. Acharya Sankara in his sutra bhashya says that parinamavada (theory of transformaton) can be adopted for the purpose of saguna upasana which is the upasana of maya-sabala brahman where the substratum is Brahman only. When the upasana is ripe, and upon the dawn of right knowledge, the " reality " which the " ignorant " people perceive WOULD BECOME an " illusion " . So, what i conclude is that Bhagavan's Teaching is not new and is not an *Intellectual Enquiry*. It is verily the *Veda Vidya* handed down to us. Bhagavan embodies in himself the *Spirit of Vedic Seer*. Bhagavan's teaching is the upasana of Vak. Bhagavan was verily the form of Dakshinamurthy who taught the Upasana of Vak in the form of *Silence*. It is this *silence* which is called Para-vak. It is this Para-Vak which sports in the deep chasms of our heart as *I* or *Aham*. The vedas and Tantra declare this Para-Vak as Tripurasundari - which is the Great Triangle in Sriyantra and the substratum of this Para-Vak is the Absolute Principle in the Form of Shiva which is depicted as Circle or Bindu in Sriyantra. Sriyantra is the diagrammatic representation of AHAM and Srividya is the Upasana of Vak in the form of *Ahamgrahopasana*. And hence, to evolve a method for this *ahamgrahopasana*, Srividya Tantra is evolved. It is interesting to note that Bhagavan himself did the prana pratishta of Sriyantra at the samadhi of His mother. tamai shri gurumurtaye namah idam shri dakshinamurthaye.... with regs, sriram --- On Fri, 10/4/09, kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada wrote: kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada Some Comments advaitin Friday, 10 April, 2009, 6:01 PM PraNAms to all Just some thoughts after looking our some of the recent mails - related to: - Internal guru vs. external guru - Vedas and religion - Who am I enquiry and aham brahmaasmi -What is internal and what is external - before we go to a guru? -No one in this group has realized! First we cannot tell if anyone is realized or not – so let us not pass judgments about others. The best we can know only about ourselves. – If we really understand who am I - then the others automatically realize when I realize - I realize that the whole thing is just vibhuuti of Iswara, nay My Own Self – It is just the Lord in various names and forms and Lord need not have to realize. External and internal is only with reference to body, mind and intellect - can there by any other way? The mind and intellect along with memory and ahankaara are called antaHkaraNa - internal instruments while Body which is obviously in relation to antaHkaraNa is external. Let us get this reference properly, otherwise we will be confusing others too. Consciousness which is all pervading can be neither external nor internal by definition, and that is also Brahman that is infiniteness (prajnaanam brahma). Hence it is futile to talk in terms of internal and external guru with reference to the all pervading consciousness or the self. BMI is inert and incapable of being a guru or shishya. Consciousness need not have to do anything or cannot do anything - leaving alone learning or teaching. Now who is shishya and who is guru, internal or external? - guru naiva na shishyaH, cidaananda ruupaH, sivoham sivoham. - that is, once I know I am what I am, pure existence-conscious ness. Until then we have shishya and guru-separate - they cannot be one and the same. I, a conscious entity, identified with BMI, feel the limitations of BMI as my limitations -and take myself to be a limited entity, jiiva. Who is that I, who identifies with BMI? The pure consciousness need not and cannot do that, being infinite and being one without a second even to claim that there is something else to identify with. This is where we need to bring in chidaabhaasa or reflected or conditioned consciousness to explain the unexplainable. Pure consciousness, as though, reflected in the pool of mind is chidaabhaasa the reflected consciousness. One can call this as conditioned consciousness or saakshii or upahita caitanya, depending on what role one can assign to it. The reflection obviously depends on the purity of the reflecting medium, the mind (here M and I are identified as one subtle body)-In the 13 ch. that we are studying - Krishna says: UpadrashTaanumantaa ca, bhartaa bhoktaa maheswaraH .. depending on the role that the reflected consciousness is assumed or assigned. Saakshii caitanya is by definition is saakshii or witness, it cannot teach either being just a witness - it can watch the teaching going on. Along with the general reflection of the mind, the vRittis (thoughts) that arise in the mind that are related to objective thoughts also get reflected by the consciousness and that is how the knowledge of particular thoughts takes place. There are no subjective thoughts - other than objective thoughts about the subject. Who am I enquiry is thought process - if there are no thoughts as in deep sleep three is no who am I enquiry. One can enquire - who am I- only based on the knowledge that have gained. I can enquire about any thing new, based on what I already know - that is how all the research is done going from known to unknown using the intellect. There is no other way. The teacher or guide in any subject comes external to BMI who can help me to direct my thoughts in proper direction - Hence we chant the gurustotram that involves salutation to the guru who is helping to point in the right direction - tat padam darshitam ena tasmai gurave namaH| Salutations to that guru who is pointing me in the right direction to inquire - that which pervades all the cara and acara - movable and immovable - that consciousness because of which I am conscious of the whole world, including the external teacher and the teaching - to that teacher my prostrations - akhanDa manDalaakaaram vyaaptam ena cara - cinmayam vyapti yas sarvam, trailokyam ca caraacaram. Once I have clearly understanding of what to inquire and the direction to inquire, the teacher has done his job. Then I can invoke that teacher in my own mind and get guidance in the sense that the teaching that he has already done to help me in my further inquiry for me so that I can abide myself in that knowledge. That help comes from my own mind with the invocation of the Teacher or even the Lord once I have clearly understood the essence of the truth and the direction to proceed. Until then I need proper guidance in any field of study. People who have sufficient knowledge can do their own research to discover the truth. The same is true in Adhyaatam vidya. Ph.D, NORMALLY implies that one can do further research by himself without any further guidance. Some people do post-doctorate work to get additional help. Only a prepared mind can have sufficient knowledge to inquire within without any need of any external teacher- until I am fully established in the knowledge that I am the consciousness that is reflecting everything by its very presence without itself doing any reflecting action. Now about Vedas and Religion: Vedas have two components - the karma khaaDa and jnaanakhaanDa - the ritualistic part and knowledge part. The ritualistic part prepares the mind for the knowledge. Any saadhana is religion and goal is beyond any religion; that is jnaana. Vedanta is not a religion (it is sanaatana dharma) , it provides the knowledge of the jiiva, jagat and Iswara - all nine yards - which is what is involved in understanding who am I - that I which is the substantive of jiiva, jagat and Iswara - that teaching required to direct the mind to inquire properly. Vedanta is like mirror that shows me who I am in relation to what I think I am - that is the turiiyam discussed in the ManDukya Upanishad. Let us not jumble up the words, That Veda, religion and who am I inquiry are different etc. Religion provides a saadhana to purify the mind so that it can take-off with proper teaching. Any saadhana is religion and depends on the saadhaka. Vedanta tell us what and how to direct the thinking for the enquiry of who that I am is - which is substantive of jiiva, jagat and Iswara. If properly understood and direct the inquiry within - one recognizes the essential truth indicated by Vedanta - aham brahmaasmi. That is the recognition that there is neither teacher nor student and I am Shiva himself - sivoham - sivoham. Until then - Krishna show the evolution of the mind - upadraShTaanumantaa ca ... Starting from I am witness ending up with - I am the whole. Hari Om! Sadananda Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 Dear harsha, Namaste. With pleasure you can upload this in your blog. Afterall, knowledge is to be shared with everyone. Ours is sanatana dharma whose objective is to grant the liberation to the humanity *as a whole*. And hence, Gayatri Mantra emphasizes on : *dhiyo yo nah prachodayat*. Much importance is given to *nah*. The santi mantra also emphasizes on *sah na vavatu ..........*. Whatever i know, i would like to share, whatever i don't i would like to learn from the members of the forum. regs, sriram--- On Sat, 11/4/09, Harsha wrote: Harsha RE: Some Commentsadvaitin Date: Saturday, 11 April, 2009, 5:36 AM Dear Venkat-ji: If you wish, I can upload this to my blog. Or if it is already somewhere on the web, I can note that on the blog. Namaste and love Yours in Bhagavan Harsha advaitin@ s.com [advaitin] On Behalf Of venkata sriramFriday, April 10, 2009 10:57 AMadvaitin@ s.comRe: Some Comments Dear It is to be noted that *who am I* is not a *intellectual* enquiry to be pursued. It is the upasana of *Aham* which is the upasana of Vak - the Great Goddess of Speech which is described in Vedas as Vak / Tripurasundari. According to legend, the 14 Maheshwara Sutras were revealed to Panini, Vyaghrapada, Upamanyu and other sages by Shiva. Panini then then composed his grammar called Ashtadhyayi which is based on the 14 Sutras that were revealed during the Cosmic Dance of Shiva. They are also called the Maheshvara Sutras. At the end of the Shiva’s Cosmic Dance, he sounded his Damaruka 14 times. And from these 14 Sounds of Damaruka, evolved 14 Sutras. These 14 sutras encompass the phonetics of the Sanskrit language. The first 4 sutras cover all the vowels. They are : 1) a i u n 2) r l k 3) e o n 4) ai au ch. Omit the last letter of the 4 sutras and they are a, i, u, r, l, e, o, ai, au. The entire 16 vowels from A to AHA have emanated from these letters. The Last 10 sutras include all the consonants. They are : 5) h y v r t; 6) l n;7) n m n n n m 8) jh bh n 9) gh dh dh s 10) j b g d d s 11) kh ph ch th th ca t t v 12) k p y 13) s s s r; 14. h l. Omit the last letter of these 10 sutras, they become entire 34 consonants ie., from K to HA. The SRICHAKRA is constructed keeping in view these entire set of 14 sutras. Ashtadhyayi divides these 14 formulae into 43 letters which become the 43 Angles of Sriyantra. The entire Matrikas (letters) ie., 16 vowels and 34 consonants have evolved from these 14 Maheshwara Sutras. The 16 Vowels and 34 Consonants have become 50 Matrikas of Letters.. They are the Saktha Pitas of Sridevi. Every Matrika has a distinct Power and Seat of Origin in our Body. These Matrikas are presided by a distinct and corresponding Devis that govern that particular seat of origin (Pita) in our Body. These Cosmic Powers that preside over each Matrika is invoked during the Antarmatrika and Bahir Matrika Nyasas. It is to be noted that the Kamakala Akshara is derived from these 14 sutras. This *AHAM* is the essence of all the Mantras, Vedas, Upanishads as these fall in between A (WHICH IS 1ST VOWEL) AND H (WHICH IS THE LAST CONSONANT). From the first sutra, A is taken and from the last Sutra H is taken. Bindu is added and its becomes AHAM. This is the AHAM swarupa or the I-NESS of Maheswara which is of the form of CHIT. It is from this AHAM of the Siva, the entire Cosmos in the form of Matrikas have evolved. This AHAM is the KAMAKALA. The entire vowels and consonants fall in between this A and H. The Tantric script encodes this principle of AHAM and depicts as a INVERTED TRIANGLE which is a representation of Triputi or Triad in the form of External Object perceived, Knowledge or Perception, Observer or Perceiver otherwise called Jnatr-Jnana- Jneya. Veda & Tantra paves the way for the piercing of this Triad which is called TRIPUTI-BHEDANA. And the methodology employed is *AHAMGRAHOPASANA* through Sagunopasana. When Vashishta Ganapati Muni pleaded for guidance in sadhana, Bhagavan asked the Muni to enquire the Source of the Panchakshari Mantra (NAMA SIVAYA) which is invariably collection of 5 letters in the form of Speech. And the root of all mantras in the form of Speech is *A-HA-Bindu* . A is the 1st vowel; Ha is the Last Consonant; M-the Bindu; which is AHAM. This is what is the essence of VAK Sukta in Rg Veda which starts with *Aham rudrebhir vasubhischarami. ......... *. Bhagavan Ramana Maharishi wants us to catch hold of this AHAM is the source of Speech and which shines in the cave of our heart. (vide ref: Ramana Gita). The speech has 4 stages of evolution whose order of evolution is : 1) Para 2) Pashyanti 3) madhyama 4) Vaikhari. Vaikhari is the Articular Sound what we hear. The source of this Articulate Sound is Para which originates from Heart Cave where throbs our consciousness in the form of *AHAM* (hridaya kuhara madhye aham aham iti sphurantam.. .). It is this throb or Antah sphurana, Bhagavan urges us to realise. It is this *Aham throb* or *Antah-sphurana* which is *Brahma*. And hence, Bhagavan says in ECSTASY as *Aham* *Brahma* *Asmi*. It is verily this *I* which shines in the heart cave as *Aham* which the Bhagavn says as Brahman. Now, what Acharya Sankara says about the Upasana of *Aham*, let us see.. Acharya Sankara gives us a wonderful hymn for meditation, contemplation and reflection which is called *Dakshinamurthy Stotram* (DS). Acharya has divided the entire hymn into 3 principles : Jiva, Jagat & Ishwara. And later, he gives a clue for the Upasana which is quite *mandatory* who are into the upasana of *aham* principle. What exactly is this *aham*, is wonderfully given in the sloka *bAlyAdiShvapi. .......AHAM iti antahsphurantam sadA....* of DS. Now, how to enquire the root of this *aham* or *I-ness*, Acharya has hinted in the subsequent sloka and the type of upasana to be undertaken. It is the *ahamgrahopasana* alongwith Sagunopasana which is suggested here. When this upasana reaches the state of culmination, it is the realisation in *ECSTASY* that this *aham* or *antah-sphuraNa* is Brahman which is the essence of Mahavakya *aham brahmasmi*. Mahavakyas are the *GREAT UTTERANCES IN ECSTASY* by our vedic seers. Even in deep reflection and sadhana, when the upasaka reaches the highest pinnacle of spiritual illumination, both the terms *aham* and *brahma* drops off and what remains is ASMI. And this state is wonderfully explained in the Rg veda in *Hymn of Creation or *Nasadiya Sukta*. I repeat: Mahavakyas are the *GREAT UTTERENCES IN SPIRITUAL ECSTASY*. Acharya Sankara also hints in his Sutra Bhashya about the sagunopasana. . He says: "apratyAkhyAyaina kAryaprapancham, PARINAMAPRAKRRIYAM CHA shrayati SAGUNESHuPASANESHUP AYOKSHYA te iti". Also, in the 1st adhyaya for the sutra "tad adhInatvA darthavat", Acharya Sankara explains the principle of Sakti to be the upAdana kAraNa for paramEshwara in the Creation. Acharya Sankara emphatically says that it is the Parinamavada to be adopted to achieve the Sagunopasana Siddhi and not for kArya-prapancha (jagat) siddhi. Acharya Sankara in his sutra bhashya says that parinamavada (theory of transformaton) can be adopted for the purpose of saguna upasana which is the upasana of maya-sabala brahman where the substratum is Brahman only. When the upasana is ripe, and upon the dawn of right knowledge, the "reality" which the "ignorant" people perceive WOULD BECOME an "illusion". So, what i conclude is that Bhagavan's Teaching is not new and is not an *Intellectual Enquiry*. It is verily the *Veda Vidya* handed down to us. Bhagavan embodies in himself the *Spirit of Vedic Seer*. Bhagavan's teaching is the upasana of Vak. Bhagavan was verily the form of Dakshinamurthy who taught the Upasana of Vak in the form of *Silence*. It is this *silence* which is called Para-vak. It is this Para-Vak which sports in the deep chasms of our heart as *I* or *Aham*. The vedas and Tantra declare this Para-Vak as Tripurasundari - which is the Great Triangle in Sriyantra and the substratum of this Para-Vak is the Absolute Principle in the Form of Shiva which is depicted as Circle or Bindu in Sriyantra. Sriyantra is the diagrammaticrepresentation of AHAM and Srividya is the Upasana of Vak in the form of *Ahamgrahopasana* . And hence, to evolve a method for this *ahamgrahopasana* , Srividya Tantra is evolved. It is interesting to note that Bhagavan himself did the prana pratishta of Sriyantra at the samadhi of His mother. tamai shri gurumurtaye namah idam shri dakshinamurthaye. ... with regs, sriram --- On Fri, 10/4/09, kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada@ > wrote: kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada@ > Some Commentsadvaitin@ s..comFriday, 10 April, 2009, 6:01 PM PraNAms to allJust some thoughts after looking our some of the recent mails - related to:- Internal guru vs. external guru- Vedas and religion- Who am I enquiry and aham brahmaasmi -What is internal and what is external - before we go to a guru?-No one in this group has realized! First we cannot tell if anyone is realized or not – so let us not pass judgments about others. The best we can know only about ourselves. – If we really understand who am I - then the others automatically realize when I realize - I realize that the whole thing is just vibhuuti of Iswara, nay My Own Self – It is just the Lord in various names and forms and Lord need not have to realize. External and internal is only with reference to body, mind and intellect - can there by any other way? The mind and intellect along with memory and ahankaara are called antaHkaraNa - internal instruments while Body which is obviously in relation to antaHkaraNa is external. Let us get this reference properly, otherwise we will be confusing others too. Consciousness which is all pervading can be neither external nor internal by definition, and that is also Brahman that is infiniteness (prajnaanam brahma). Hence it is futile to talk in terms of internal and external guru with reference to the all pervading consciousness or the self.BMI is inert and incapable of being a guru or shishya.Consciousness need not have to do anything or cannot do anything - leaving alone learning or teaching.Now who is shishya and who is guru, internal or external? - guru naiva na shishyaH, cidaananda ruupaH, sivoham sivoham. - that is, once I know I am what I am, pure existence-conscious ness.Until then we have shishya and guru-separate - they cannot be one and the same.I, a conscious entity, identified with BMI, feel the limitations of BMI as my limitations -and take myself to be a limited entity, jiiva. Who is that I, who identifies with BMI? The pure consciousness need not and cannot do that, being infinite and being one without a second even to claim that there is something else to identify with. This is where we need to bring in chidaabhaasa or reflected or conditioned consciousness to explain the unexplainable. Pure consciousness, as though, reflected in the pool of mind is chidaabhaasa the reflected consciousness. One can call this as conditioned consciousness or saakshii or upahita caitanya, depending on what role one can assign to it. The reflection obviously depends on the purity of the reflecting medium, the mind (here M and I are identified as one subtle body)-In the 13 ch. that we are studying - Krishna says: UpadrashTaanumantaa ca, bhartaa bhoktaa maheswaraH .. depending on the role that the reflected consciousness is assumed or assigned.Saakshii caitanya is by definition is saakshii or witness, it cannot teach either being just a witness - it can watch the teaching going on. Along with the general reflection of the mind, the vRittis (thoughts) that arise in the mind that are related to objective thoughts also get reflected by the consciousness and that is how the knowledge of particular thoughts takes place. There are no subjective thoughts - other than objective thoughts about the subject. Who am I enquiry is thought process - if there are no thoughts as in deep sleep three is no who am I enquiry. One can enquire - who am I- only based on the knowledge that have gained. I can enquire about any thing new, based on what I already know - that is how all the research is done going from known to unknown using the intellect. There is no other way.The teacher or guide in any subject comes external to BMI who can help me to direct my thoughts in proper direction - Hence we chant the gurustotram that involves salutation to the guru who is helping to point in the right direction - tat padam darshitam ena tasmai gurave namaH| Salutations to that guru who is pointing me in the right direction to inquire - that which pervades all the cara and acara - movable and immovable - that consciousness because of which I am conscious of the whole world, including the external teacher and the teaching - to that teacher my prostrations - akhanDa manDalaakaaram vyaaptam ena cara - cinmayam vyapti yas sarvam, trailokyam ca caraacaram.Once I have clearly understanding of what to inquire and the direction to inquire, the teacher has done his job.Then I can invoke that teacher in my own mind and get guidance in the sense that the teaching that he has already done to help me in my further inquiry for me so that I can abide myself in that knowledge. That help comes from my own mind with the invocation of the Teacher or even the Lord once I have clearly understood the essence of the truth and the direction to proceed. Until then I need proper guidance in any field of study. People who have sufficient knowledge can do their own research to discover the truth. The same is true in Adhyaatam vidya. Ph.D, NORMALLY implies that one can do further research by himself without any further guidance. Some people do post-doctorate work to get additional help. Only a prepared mind can have sufficient knowledge to inquire within without any need of any external teacher- until I am fully established in the knowledge that I am the consciousness that is reflecting everything by its very presence without itself doing any reflecting action.Now about Vedas and Religion:Vedas have two components - the karma khaaDa and jnaanakhaanDa - the ritualistic part and knowledge part. The ritualistic part prepares the mind for the knowledge. Any saadhana is religion and goal is beyond any religion; that is jnaana. Vedanta is not a religion (it is sanaatana dharma) , it provides the knowledge of the jiiva, jagat and Iswara - all nine yards - which is what is involved in understanding who am I - that I which is the substantive of jiiva, jagat and Iswara - that teaching required to direct the mind to inquire properly. Vedanta is like mirror that shows me who I am in relation to what I think I am - that is the turiiyam discussed in the ManDukya Upanishad. Let us not jumble up the words, That Veda, religion and who am I inquiry are different etc. Religion provides a saadhana to purify the mind so that it can take-off with proper teaching. Any saadhana is religion and depends on the saadhaka. Vedanta tell us what and how to direct thethinking for the enquiry of who that I am is - which is substantive of jiiva, jagat and Iswara.If properly understood and direct the inquiry within - one recognizes the essential truth indicated by Vedanta - aham brahmaasmi. That is the recognition that there is neither teacher nor student and I am Shiva himself - sivoham - sivoham.Until then - Krishna show the evolution of the mind - upadraShTaanumantaa ca .. Starting from I am witness ending up with - I am the whole.Hari Om!Sadananda Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 --- On Fri, 4/10/09, venkata sriram <sriram_sapthasathi wrote: It is to be noted that *who am I* is not a *intellectual* enquiry to be pursued. It is the upasana of *Aham* which is the upasana of Vak - the Great Goddess of Speech which is described in Vedas as Vak / Tripurasundari. ---------- PraNAms to all I do not like get into arguments, but I have to restate since the above statement seems to be very affirmative. Let us state the fundamentals - The self-ignorance or ignorance of about who I am is the cause of samsaara as is illustrated by the adhyaasa bhaashya. Self-ignorance can only be removed by self-knowledge. Self-knowledge requires inquiry - tat vijnaasasva - athaatho brahma jignaas - sa vijneyaH - Scriptures are indicating that it has to be known. Knowledge can take place only via intellect- in this case the knowledge involves the knowledge of the substantive of the knower-known duality. It can only be gained by inquiry - hence the statement - are shrotavyaH, mantavyaH and nidhidhyaasitavyaH. Inquiry can only be done with intellect since we have only - the body, mind and intellect as the equipments. Upaasana is meditation - but Vedantic meditation is inquiry of who am I by discarding I am not this - neti. One can have upaasana to purify the mind so that it can do the above inquiry. Bhagavaan Ramana's Upadesha saara or sat darshanam validates the above statements only, as for as I understand. Hence His teaching does not differ from Vedantic teaching. I will not be posting further on this. Hari Om! Sadananda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 advaitin , kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada wrote: > > > > --- On Fri, 4/10/09, venkata sriram <sriram_sapthasathi wrote: > > > It is to be noted that *who am I* is not a *intellectual* enquiry to be pursued. It is the upasana of *Aham* which is the upasana of Vak - the Great Goddess of Speech which is described in Vedas as Vak / Tripurasundari. > > ---------- > PraNAms to all > Self-ignorance can only be removed by self-knowledge. > > Knowledge can take place only via intellect- in this case the knowledge involves the knowledge of the substantive of the knower-known duality. > > Hari Om! > Sadananda Namaste Vedantins, Sometimes people say to me, " Oh, that's just 'intellectual' knowledge. " They may say this as a criticism, not knowing that self-knowledge is gained in the buddhi, by that part of the mind capable of knowing without doubt. I think what these people are really trying to point out is that they want to avoid taking on, or pursuing, concepts of what self-knowledge, or enlightenment, is. I think that concern is valid, and in line with the teachings of Vedanta. Vedanta is a pramana for direct knowledge of the self. Vedanta doesn't encourage or intend us to gain a lot of 'concepts' about the self. That we have incorrect concepts is the problem of self-ignorance in the first place. Vedanta as a pramana enables us to shed our incorrect concepts, and points us to directly recognize that I am that self which I seek, and indeed always have been. So, sometimes when people use the word 'intellectual' as a criticism, I introduce the word 'conceptual' instead, and that seems to work very well, because that is really their concern. They want to avoid taking on a lot of concepts. Well, ignorance itself is a concept, an incorrect concept or conclusion held in the mind about who I am. Knowledge corrects the concept and clearly enables the mind to see what the truth is. Self-knowledge isn't conceptual. 'I' am not a concept in the mind. 'I' am that unchanging reality which the mind can recognize as brahman. The word 'intellectual' to some people seems to imply an idea which is away from them. To my mind a 'concept' is an idea which is 'away,' or imagined. Knowledge of the self is direct, not conceptual, or imagined. Furthermore people sometimes hear that the self is 'beyond the mind.' This may lead them to think, " Oh, the self is beyond the mind, therefore the mind can't be used to recognize the self. I need to go 'beyond' the mind. " This type of thinking can present a real problem for the seeker. So these types of misunderstandings need to be cleared up, and a good teacher of Vedanta can do that. The mind is so often blamed as a culprit. It is true that the mind does have the problem of ignorance, but it is also true that the mind is that instrument through which self-knowledge is gained. So we need to honor our minds and respect the capacity which Bhagavan has given to them. My teacher often says, " It is the mind which has the problem, and the mind which needs the solution. " Thank goodness that Bhagavan has given us the type of mind which if cherished and exposed to the teachings is capable of recognizing the truth, " aham brahmasmi. " Pranams, Durga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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