Ramana's teachings

April 12, 2009

Bhagwan says: Take Vedanta, for instance:

it speaks of 15 pranas the names and functions of it which the student is asked to commit memory.

Will it not be sufficient if he thought only one prana does the whole work of maintaining

the body? Again the antakaran is said to think, to desire, to will, to reason

etc. Why all these details? Has anyone seen antakarana, or all these pranas? Do

they really exist? They are conceptual divisions invented by teachers of

philosophy by their excessive analysis.

Where do all these concepts end? Why should confusion

created and then explained away? Fortunate is the man who does not lose him self

in the labyrinths of philosophy, but goes straight to the source from which

they all arise.

It

is very true.

Bhagvan's

teaching is the best for the modern mind set. And I feel that he has given all

the material required for the self-knowledge, but we have to grasp it on our

own through deeper thinking, inquiring and analyzing and reasoning to overcome

all the doubts and confusion in the path of inquiry.

This

below dialogue between the devotee and Bhagavan clarifies the fact that, there is no need to of

scriptures to know the true self. All the intellectual wealth is helpful only

to little extent. But to attain realization scriptures are not necessary.

D: How can one become the knower

of the unknown?

B: The seeker himself becomes a

knower. The thing to be known is already there. There is nothing to be known a

fresh. Moreover, there in no two things.

D: I sought Bhagvans

clarification as a sad guru of all.

B: you can only be the self. To

know the self to be it. Remain in the natural state.

D: is it not necessary to study

Vedas or at least the Prastntary (the Bagvaad Gita,Dasponishad and Brahma sutras all with commentaries) to

ensure firm realization.)

B: No. Do you need all that to

see your self? All that is intellectual wealth, useful in explaining the doubts

if other if other rise them or you yourself encounter them in course of thinking.

But to attain realization, all that is not necessary. You require fresh water

to drink, but you do not require all the water of the river Ganges to quench

your thirst.

D: Swami, now that you have disclosed this to me, is Jnana

attained by me?

B: No, you are just

being enabled to prepare the intellectual foundation and give necessary turn to

your will. What has to be done is to realize. You have been supplied with a

bottle of elixir or nectar, but you can get happiness only actual taste of it.

It is only by realization that it becomes firm that is the old tendency which

draws you away into identifying youself with what is unreal real. What is not

the self are extinguished leaving you reality free and unencumbered by the

non-self. This enduring freedom or perpetual realization is called liberation

and release.

Until

and unless one becomes aware of what is real and what is unreal there is only confusion,

doubts and arguments, because we are holding the false self [ego] and false

experience as reality and viewing judging truth on the false self which is `I'.

Self-ignorance can only be removed by

knowledge of the true self.

In my view the self ignorance is

limiting the mind or `I' to the physical entity, which is cause of duality

[samsara], whereas the self pervades all the three state [dual and nondual

experiences] as its formless substance and witness. Thus holding only the body is not self is erroneous;

the world has to be included in it. The

self exists with in the illusion as its formless substance and self is apart

from the illusion as its formless witness. Self is apart because it is not an

entity or identity within the illusion/duality/samsara]. Thus

birth, life and death area part of the illusion because they happen in the

world which is mithya. The one which

witnesses the mithya/ illusion is Ataman. The formless witness and illusion

are one in essence. Only By

realizing this fact the unity in diversity is possible. And one will be able to

realize the fact that body and the world are created out of Ataman.

Nisargadutta said: If one thinks

that, the world existed prior to him, and he is born in this world afterwards,

then, until this conviction is there, it is impossible to acquire the self-knowledge,

and it is very true.

Bhagvan says: give up the false

identification and remember, the body cannot exist without the self, whereas

the self can exist without the body; in fact it is always without it. This

clearly means we have to identify with formless self. And he further clarifies

that the difference between the ego and self by saying that which comes and

goes, rises and sets, is born and dies is the ego. That which always abides

never changes and devoid of qualities is the self.

It is for the seeker to do his own

home work and grasp the essence of Ramana's teaching.

Ramana only has mentioned that, the

essence of Vedas is: dehum-naham-kohum-sohum in one of the books.

The body, ego and the world co- exist

together, and disappear together. They interdependent on each other, therefore

limiting the `I' to the body alone is the cause of the ignorance. Therefore it

is necessary to what is `I' in order to overcome the ignorance. Thus the `I' which comes and goes and rises

and sets and which is born and dies is the `I', therefore it is impermanent.

The knower of the `I' is permanent and unaffected, changeless and devoid of

qualities. This is my observation and conviction derived

from the deeper inquiry and reasoning.

Since truth pursuit is the personal

journey, and everyone has their own idea of truth, there is no use of arguing

over his teachings the spiritual pearls are hidden in Bhagwans teachings,

seeker has to his own home work and assimilate the knowledge of the true self.

I humbly request list members ignore my views if they are not agreeing with

their point of view.

With respect and regards

Santthosh.

April 12, 2009

Dear Santtosh-ji,

Are these actual quotes from Bhagavan Ramana or are you writing from memory?

Would you supply the references to the source of all your quotes from Bhagavan Ramana, please.

Thanks,

Peter

advaitin [advaitin ] On Behalf Of santthoshkumaar12 April 2009 11:29advaitin Subject: Ramana's teachings

Bhagwan says: Take Vedanta, for instance: it speaks of 15 pranas the names and functions of it which the student is asked to commit memory. Will it not be sufficient if he thought only one prana does the whole work of maintaining the body? Again the antakaran is said to think, to desire, to will, to reason etc. Why all these details? Has anyone seen antakarana, or all these pranas? Do they really exist? They are conceptual divisions invented by teachers of philosophy by their excessive analysis. Where do all these concepts end? Why should confusion created and then explained away? Fortunate is the man who does not lose him self in the labyrinths of philosophy, but goes straight to the source from which they all arise.

It is very true.

Bhagvan's teaching is the best for the modern mind set. And I feel that he has given all the material required for the self-knowledge, but we have to grasp it on our own through deeper thinking, inquiring and analyzing and reasoning to overcome all the doubts and confusion in the path of inquiry.

This below dialogue between the devotee and Bhagavan clarifies the fact that, there is no need to of scriptures to know the true self. All the intellectual wealth is helpful only to little extent. But to attain realization scriptures are not necessary.

D: How can one become the knower of the unknown?

B: The seeker himself becomes a knower. The thing to be known is already there. There is nothing to be known a fresh. Moreover, there in no two things.

D: I sought Bhagvans clarification as a sad guru of all.

B: you can only be the self. To know the self to be it. Remain in the natural state.

D: is it not necessary to study Vedas or at least the Prastntary (the Bagvaad Gita,Dasponishad and Brahma sutras all with commentaries) to ensure firm realization.)

B: No. Do you need all that to see your self? All that is intellectual wealth, useful in explaining the doubts if other if other rise them or you yourself encounter them in course of thinking. But to attain realization, all that is not necessary. You require fresh water to drink, but you do not require all the water of the river Ganges to quench your thirst.

D: Swami, now that you have disclosed this to me, is Jnana attained by me?

B: No, you are just being enabled to prepare the intellectual foundation and give necessary turn to your will. What has to be done is to realize. You have been supplied with a bottle of elixir or nectar, but you can get happiness only actual taste of it. It is only by realization that it becomes firm that is the old tendency which draws you away into identifying youself with what is unreal real. What is not the self are extinguished leaving you reality free and unencumbered by the non-self. This enduring freedom or perpetual realization is called liberation and release.

Until and unless one becomes aware of what is real and what is unreal there is only confusion, doubts and arguments, because we are holding the false self [ego] and false experience as reality and viewing judging truth on the false self which is `I'. Self-ignorance can only be removed by knowledge of the true self.

In my view the self ignorance is limiting the mind or `I' to the physical entity, which is cause of duality [samsara], whereas the self pervades all the three state [dual and nondual experiences] as its formless substance and witness. Thus holding only the body is not self is erroneous; the world has to be included in it. The self exists with in the illusion as its formless substance and self is apart from the illusion as its formless witness. Self is apart because it is not an entity or identity within the illusion/duality/samsara]. Thus birth, life and death area part of the illusion because they happen in the world which is mithya. The one which witnesses the mithya/ illusion is Ataman. The formless witness and illusion are one in essence. Only By realizing this fact the unity in diversity is possible. And one will be able to realize the fact that body and the world are created out of Ataman.

Nisargadutta said: If one thinks that, the world existed prior to him, and he is born in this world afterwards, then, until this conviction is there, it is impossible to acquire the self-knowledge, and it is very true.

Bhagvan says: give up the false identification and remember, the body cannot exist without the self, whereas the self can exist without the body; in fact it is always without it. This clearly means we have to identify with formless self. And he further clarifies that the difference between the ego and self by saying that which comes and goes, rises and sets, is born and dies is the ego. That which always abides never changes and devoid of qualities is the self.

It is for the seeker to do his own home work and grasp the essence of Ramana's teaching.

Ramana only has mentioned that, the essence of Vedas is: dehum-naham-kohum-sohum in one of the books.

The body, ego and the world co- exist together, and disappear together. They interdependent on each other, therefore limiting the `I' to the body alone is the cause of the ignorance. Therefore it is necessary to what is `I' in order to overcome the ignorance. Thus the `I' which comes and goes and rises and sets and which is born and dies is the `I', therefore it is impermanent. The knower of the `I' is permanent and unaffected, changeless and devoid of qualities. This is my observation and conviction derived from the deeper inquiry and reasoning.

Since truth pursuit is the personal journey, and everyone has their own idea of truth, there is no use of arguing over his teachings the spiritual pearls are hidden in Bhagwans teachings, seeker has to his own home work and assimilate the knowledge of the true self. I humbly request list members ignore my views if they are not agreeing with their point of view.

With respect and regards

Santthosh.

April 12, 2009

Dear Peter-ji,

Thank you for response. These are actual quotes from Bhagavan Ramana, and I am not writing

from my memory. The information of the book I referred and the chapter and

pages numbers are marked and underlined. I am

not the type to quote some hearsay stuff.

Santthosh

1

D: How can one become the knower

of the unknown?

B: The seeker himself becomes a

knower. The thing to be known is already there. There is nothing to be known a

fresh. Moreover, there in no two things.

D: I sought Bhagvans

clarification as a sad guru of all.

B: you can only be the self. To

know the self to be it. Remain in the natural state.

D: is it not necessary to study

Vedas or at least the Prastntary (the Bagvaad Gita,Dasponishad and Brahma sutras all with commentaries) to

ensure firm realization.)

B: No. Do you need all that to

see your self? All that is intellectual wealth, useful in explaining the doubts

if other if other rise them or you yourself encounter them in course of

thinking. But to attain realization, all that is not necessary. You require

fresh water to drink, but you do not require all the water of the river Ganges

to quench your thirst.

D: Swami, now that you have disclosed this to me, is Jnana

attained by me?

B: No, you are just

being enabled to prepare the intellectual foundation and give necessary turn to

your will. What has to be done is to realize. You have been supplied with a

bottle of elixir or nectar, but you can get happiness only actual taste of it.

It is only by realization that it becomes firm that is the old tendency which

draws you away into identifying youself with what is unreal real. What is not

the self are extinguished leaving you reality free and unencumbered by the

non-self. This enduring freedom or perpetual realization is called liberation

and release. (A practical guide to know yourself

by A.R.N- chapter –More doubts and answer-page -111/112)

2

Bhagwan says: Take Vedanta, for instance:

it speaks of 15 pranas the names and functions of it which the student is asked to commit memory.

Will it not be sufficient if he thought only one prana does the whole work of maintaining

the body? Again the antakaran is said to think, to desire, to will, to reason

etc. Why all these details? Has anyone seen antakarana, or all these pranas? Do

they really exist? They are conceptual divisions invented by teachers of

philosophy by their excessive analysis.

Where do all these concepts end? Why should confusion created

and then explained away? Fortunate is the man who does not lose him self in the

labyrinths of philosophy, but goes straight to the source from which they all

arise. (GURU RAMANA .By S.S Cohen -vii Danger of philosophy-Page

-58-59)

advaitin , "Peter" <not_2 wrote:>> Dear Santtosh-ji,> > Are these actual quotes from Bhagavan Ramana or are you writing from memory?> > Would you supply the references to the source of all your quotes from> Bhagavan Ramana, please. > > Thanks,> > Peter> > > _____ > > advaitin [advaitin ] On Behalf> Of santthoshkumaar> 12 April 2009 11:29> advaitin > Ramana's teachings> > > > > > Bhagwan says: Take Vedanta, for instance: it speaks of 15 pranas the names> and functions of it which the student is asked to commit memory. Will it> not be sufficient if he thought only one prana does the whole work of> maintaining the body? Again the antakaran is said to think, to desire, to> will, to reason etc. Why all these details? Has anyone seen antakarana, or> all these pranas? Do they really exist? They are conceptual divisions> invented by teachers of philosophy by their excessive analysis. Where do all> these concepts end? Why should confusion created and then explained away?> Fortunate is the man who does not lose him self in the labyrinths of> philosophy, but goes straight to the source from which they all arise. > > It is very true. > > Bhagvan's teaching is the best for the modern mind set. And I feel that he> has given all the material required for the self-knowledge, but we have to> grasp it on our own through deeper thinking, inquiring and analyzing and> reasoning to overcome all the doubts and confusion in the path of inquiry. > > This below dialogue between the devotee and Bhagavan clarifies the fact> that, there is no need to of scriptures to know the true self. All the> intellectual wealth is helpful only to little extent. But to attain> realization scriptures are not necessary.> > D: How can one become the knower of the unknown? > > B: The seeker himself becomes a knower. The thing to be known is already> there. There is nothing to be known a fresh. Moreover, there in no two> things.> > D: I sought Bhagvans clarification as a sad guru of all.> > B: you can only be the self. To know the self to be it. Remain in the> natural state.> > D: is it not necessary to study Vedas or at least the Prastntary (the> Bagvaad Gita,Dasponishad and Brahma sutras all with commentaries) to ensure> firm realization.)> > B: No. Do you need all that to see your self? All that is intellectual> wealth, useful in explaining the doubts if other if other rise them or you> yourself encounter them in course of thinking. But to attain realization,> all that is not necessary. You require fresh water to drink, but you do not> require all the water of the river Ganges to quench your thirst. > > D: Swami, now that you have disclosed this to me, is Jnana attained by me?> > B: No, you are just being enabled to prepare the intellectual foundation and> give necessary turn to your will. What has to be done is to realize. You> have been supplied with a bottle of elixir or nectar, but you can get> happiness only actual taste of it. It is only by realization that it becomes> firm that is the old tendency which draws you away into identifying youself> with what is unreal real. What is not the self are extinguished leaving you> reality free and unencumbered by the non-self. This enduring freedom or> perpetual realization is called liberation and release.> > Until and unless one becomes aware of what is real and what is unreal there> is only confusion, doubts and arguments, because we are holding the false> self [ego] and false experience as reality and viewing judging truth on the> false self which is `I'. Self-ignorance can only be removed by knowledge of> the true self.> > In my view the self ignorance is limiting the mind or `I' to the physical> entity, which is cause of duality [samsara], whereas the self pervades all> the three state [dual and nondual experiences] as its formless substance and> witness. Thus holding only the body is not self is erroneous; the world has> to be included in it. The self exists with in the illusion as its formless> substance and self is apart from the illusion as its formless witness. Self> is apart because it is not an entity or identity within the> illusion/duality/samsara]. Thus birth, life and death area part of the> illusion because they happen in the world which is mithya. The one which> witnesses the mithya/ illusion is Ataman. The formless witness and> illusion are one in essence. Only By realizing this fact the unity in> diversity is possible. And one will be able to realize the fact that body> and the world are created out of Ataman.> > Nisargadutta said: If one thinks that, the world existed prior to him, and> he is born in this world afterwards, then, until this conviction is there,> it is impossible to acquire the self-knowledge, and it is very true. > > Bhagvan says: give up the false identification and remember, the body cannot> exist without the self, whereas the self can exist without the body; in fact> it is always without it. This clearly means we have to identify with> formless self. And he further clarifies that the difference between the ego> and self by saying that which comes and goes, rises and sets, is born and> dies is the ego. That which always abides never changes and devoid of> qualities is the self.> > It is for the seeker to do his own home work and grasp the essence of> Ramana's teaching. > > Ramana only has mentioned that, the essence of Vedas is:> dehum-naham-kohum-sohum in one of the books. > > The body, ego and the world co- exist together, and disappear together.> They interdependent on each other, therefore limiting the `I' to the body> alone is the cause of the ignorance. Therefore it is necessary to what is> `I' in order to overcome the ignorance. Thus the `I' which comes and goes> and rises and sets and which is born and dies is the `I', therefore it is> impermanent. The knower of the `I' is permanent and unaffected, changeless> and devoid of qualities. This is my observation and conviction derived> from the deeper inquiry and reasoning.> > Since truth pursuit is the personal journey, and everyone has their own idea> of truth, there is no use of arguing over his teachings the spiritual pearls> are hidden in Bhagwans teachings, seeker has to his own home work and> assimilate the knowledge of the true self. I humbly request list members> ignore my views if they are not agreeing with their point of view. > > With respect and regards> > Santthosh.>