Guest guest Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 Dear Sundarji Thank you very much for the information. In fact I have gone through some articles by Sri prasads erialised by Swathi. these articles described his experiences while servinf as an IAS officer. I read only few and missed many. Are you referring to these articles or you are referring to another book by him? I was not aware that his articles are available in book form. I will try to con gyan publishing house. pranaams Podury On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 11:02 AM, Sunder Hattangadi <sunderhwrote: > > > Sorry, I forgot to write the author's name: P.V.R.K. Prasad (b. 1941) > served as Executive officer 1968-1971). > > S. > > advaitin <advaitin%40>, " Sunder > Hattangadi " <sunderh wrote: > > > > advaitin <advaitin%40>, vrsarma > podury <rpodury@> wrote: > > > > > > > Every seeker passes through > > > your stage. > > > I am happy to share a few thoughts with a sincere seeker > > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > There is an inspiring story of a brilliant IAS (Indian Administrative > Service) officer assigned to the Tirupati Temple as Executive Officer in the > 1970's. He has recorded his experiences in an English translation of his > serialized articles, (originally in Telugu weekly 'Swati'), in the book > " When I Saw Tirupati Balaji " . [Publ. Gyan Publishing House, New Delhi; 2008] > > > > How the attitude of 'nAhaM kartA' took hold of him with every crisis he > faced, is beautifully portrayed in the 300 pages of this book. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Sunder > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 advaitin , vrsarma podury <rpodury wrote: > In fact I have gone through some > articles by Sri prasads erialised by Swathi. these articles described his > experiences while servinf as an IAS officer. I read only few and missed > many. Are you referring to these articles or you are referring to another > book by him? I was not aware that his articles are available in book form. I > will try to con gyan publishing house. > Namaste, The author himself has translated the series and published them in book form. Regards, Sunder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 Namaste, advaitin , " Sunder Hattangadi " <sunderh wrote: > > Namaste, > > There is an inspiring story of a brilliant IAS (Indian Administrative Service) officer assigned to the Tirupati Temple as Executive Officer in the 1970's. He has recorded his experiences in an English translation of his serialized articles, (originally in Telugu weekly 'Swati'), in the book " When I Saw Tirupati Balaji " . [Publ. Gyan Publishing House, New Delhi; 2008] > > How the attitude of 'nAhaM kartA' took hold of him with every crisis he faced, is beautifully portrayed in the 300 pages of this book. > Thanks for mentioning 'nAham kartA'. In fact, this is a verse of Sri.MadhvacAharaya in His Gita tAtparya. The full verse is like this: nAham kartA hariH kartA tatpUjA karmachaakhilam.h| taThaapi matkR^itaa pUja tatprasaadhEna naanyaThaa| tadbhakti tadphalam.h mahyam.h tatprasaadaat.h punaH punaH | karmanyaasO harAvevam.h vishNOsthR^iptikaraH sadhA || Translation: " I am not the doer, Shri Hari is the doer, all the actions that I do are His worship. Even then, the worship I do is through His grace and not otherwise. That devotion and the fruits of the actions that come to me are due to His recurring grace. If one always practices to do actions with a dedicated spirit to Hari, in this way, it pleases Vishnu. " Sri. P.V.R.K Prasad is a staunch Dvaitin and follower of Sri.MadhvachArya. I know him personally. His attitude " nAham kartA " (on which the above said book is depicted and also titled) is due to his following of Dvaita doctrine. That attitude is possible to implement in one's life because the Dvaita doctrine treats this world is quite real, Parabrahman Hari is quite real, He is svatantra (independent reality), His grace is real and must for everything to happen in this world etc etc. The original poster's conflict in life is not applicable to PVRK Prasad's case, because as per the original poster's own admission, his conflict is due to the attitude as taught by the advaita that this entire world is mithya, Ishavara is not real but Nirguna brahman as seen (or superimposed) with adjunct by jIva etc etc. I feel discussing about P.V.R.K Prasad and his solution for the conflict is not according to Advaita " as taught by Adi Shankara " and the objective of this list. Let's keep that in perspective. Regards, Srinivas. > > Regards, > > Sunder > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 I feel discussing about P.V.R.K Prasad and his solution for the conflict is not according to Advaita " as taught by Adi Shankara " and the objective of this list. Let's keep that in perspective. praNAms Sri Srinivas prabhuji Hare Krishna Kindly dont make lose comments like this...Shankara never ever belittle the bhagavad bhakti & Ishwara sharaNAgati...You are talking & quoting shankara as if there is absolutely no place for Ishwara KaruNa & IshvarAnugraha mOksha in advaita...But that is not the case prabhuji...Do you know who said the following : avidyAvasthAyAM kAryakAraNa saMghAtAvivekadarshinO avidyAtimirAndhasya sataH parasmAdAtmanaHkarmAdhyakshAt sarvabhutAdhivAsAt sAkshiNaH chetayituH IshwarAt tadanujnayA katrutva bhOktrutva lakshaNasya saMsArasya siddhihi...tadanugraha hetukenaiva cha vijnAnena mOkshasiddhirbhavitumarhati.. Anyway, be ready for Sri Sadananda prabhuji's clarification on this topic... Hari Hari Hari Bol!!! bhaskar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 PranAms. Please note only advaita can complete bhakti. Your views on advaita and bhakti are unfortunately incorrect, and hence what you are suggesting is miscontrued. I have written about this at length before: http://poornamadam.blogspot.com/2008/03/ishwara-and-advaita.html http://poornamadam.blogspot.com/2007/09/does-advaita-consider-ishwara-real-or.ht\ ml http://poornamadam.blogspot.com/2008/04/ishwara-and-brahman.html Hari OM Shri Gurubhyoh namah Shyam --- On Thu, 4/16/09, Srinivas Kotekal <kots_p wrote: Srinivas Kotekal <kots_p Re: seeking guidance on a real life conflict advaitin Thursday, April 16, 2009, 6:05 AM Namaste, " I am not the doer, Shri Hari is the doer, all the actions that I do are His worship. Even then, the worship I do is through His grace and not otherwise. That devotion and the fruits of the actions that come to me are due to His recurring grace. If one always practices to do actions with a dedicated spirit to Hari, in this way, it pleases Vishnu. " Sri. P.V.R.K Prasad is a staunch Dvaitin and follower of Sri.MadhvachArya. I know him personally. His attitude " nAham kartA " (on which the above said book is depicted and also titled) is due to his following of Dvaita doctrine. That attitude is possible to implement in one's life because the Dvaita doctrine treats this world is quite real, Parabrahman Hari is quite real, He is svatantra (independent reality), His grace is real and must for everything to happen in this world etc etc. Recent Activity 10 New Members 1 New FilesVisit Your Group Give Back for Good Get inspired by a good cause. Y! Toolbar Get it Free! easy 1-click access to your groups. Start a group in 3 easy steps. Connect with others. .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2009 Report Share Posted April 18, 2009 advaitin , " Srinivas Kotekal " <kots_p wrote: > >> Sri. P.V.R.K Prasad is a staunch Dvaitin and follower of Sri.MadhvachArya. I know him personally. His attitude " nAham kartA " (on which the above said book is depicted and also titled) is due to his following of Dvaita doctrine. Srinivas - PraNAms Since I do not know Mr. Prasad, we take your word. We respect your opinion of Shree Prasad. But the rest of your mail is not a reflection of a member of advaitin list for such a long time. You have just proved by your statement the famous sloka of Avadhuuta gita, which is the very first sloka. Iswaraanugraat eva pumsaam advaita vaasanaa| mahadbhayaparitraaNaat vipraaNaam upajaayate|| Through the grace of God alone, the desire for non-duality arises in wise men to save them from the great fear. Shankaraachaarya, the greatest advaitin, has composed the most beautiful bhakti slokas; one every God imaginable. It is clear that Bhakti is not sole property a dvaitin philosophy. For advaitin along with jnaana, bhakti as well as all yogas and saadhanaas are part of growing up - for chitta suddhi, chitta ekaagrata, chitta viShaalata and chitta nairmalyam. Saadhana and shaadhya is part of duality until one can fully establish oneself in the understanding of turiiyam that scriptures point out. The ultimate bhakti is complete surrender - where in that bhakti, the bhakta himself dissolves into the alter of Bhakti. Any love demands unity – including the mandane love between husband and wife- any divergence in thinking causes problem. Dvaita is recognized as the fundamental problem anywhere. Bhakti is devotion or love for higher and one loves one self more than anything else - as discussed elaborately by Yagnavalkya in his discourse to his wife, Maitreye in Br. Up. All actions are done by prakRiti itself. In our ego-centric attitude we superimpose in ourselves the kartRitva bhaava and bhoktRitva bhaava - hence Krishna has emphasize again that you are never an actor - prakRityaiva ca karmaaNi kriyamaanaani sarvasaH - yaH pasyati saH pasyati - who sees this clearly alone see correctly. Hence true surrender involves surrender of the agency of action too – and that happens only with understanding that I am akartaa and abhoktaa and in my presence only the prakRiti does all the actions, as elaborated in Gita by Bhagavaan. You may have your explanations for these; but we are not interested. Advaita includes dvaita until that unreality of dvaita at absolute level is understood -when one recognizes the 'a' in front of dvaita - as Krishna say pasyan sRinvan .. are done by indriyaas with the blessing of chaitanya swaruupa who himself is akartaa. Fear comes from dvaita only not advaita as you enjoy everyday in the deep sleep state where you alone are without anyone bothering you, including advaitin list members. dvitiiyadhvai bhayam bhavati-says Br. Up. the dvaita causes fear. This is echoed in Tai. Up also. Arjuna saw vishwaruupa Brahman but still afraid since there is a seer-seen duality. The surrender to Vishnu will remover the fear alright that involves the dissolution of dvaita - recognition of advaita as the ultimate truth where the bhakta merges with his deity. deity-duality delusion gets resolved in the ultimate bhakti. Until then it is only idea of surrender not real surrender by bhakta - as people chant daily - tan man dhan subkuch teraahai with all devotion- as just verbal statements of threading to surrender, since he is ready to again to do the same aarati next day, since he has not surrendered himself previous day. True prapatti or sharanaagati can occur only once with the avakening of advaitic understanding where he is no more and merged himself with the Lord or become one with the Lord, where there is no more duality to surrender again. That my friend is true bhakti and as Dattatreya emphasizes in his very first sloka - that comes with the grace of the Lord only. So please do not make statements that contradict pure bhakti. In the ultimate love, the lover and loved become one - adviata. That is jnaana as well as bhakti - and Krishna says jnaani is my greatest bhakta. Hari Om! Sadananda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2009 Report Share Posted April 18, 2009 advaitin , " kuntimaddisada " <kuntimaddisada wrote: > > advaitin , " Srinivas Kotekal " <kots_p@> wrote: > > > >> Sri. P.V.R.K Prasad is a staunch Dvaitin and follower of Sri.MadhvachArya. I know him personally. His attitude " nAham kartA " (on which the above said book is depicted and also titled) is due to his following of Dvaita doctrine. > > > So please do not make statements that contradict pure bhakti. In the ultimate love, the lover and loved become one - adviata. That is jnaana as well as bhakti - and Krishna says jnaani is my greatest bhakta. > > Namaste, Thanks Sadaji for a powerful statement.My idea of a 'staunch Dvaitin' was that of one initiated into the Mahavakya " atat tvam asi " * [You are not That (Brahman)], resulting in the nididhyasanam of " nAhaM brahmAsmi " [i am not That]. Regards, Sunder * For an advaitin response to the said Mahavakya as quoted in Dvaita literature, please refer to: http://www.advaitin.net/Subrahmanian/The_Flawless_Advaitic_Teaching_of_Tat_Tvam_\ Asi.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2009 Report Share Posted April 18, 2009 advaitin , " V. Shankar " <shankar_v1 wrote: > > Dear members of the advaitin list, > I wrote the following mail to Dennis-ji (with whom I have had some earlier exchanges) to get his perspective, since I was a little hesitant initially about posting to the group. But he strongly urged me to post my mail to the entire list, so here it is. Pranams Sri Sankarji, Your post on the `conflict' you have been facing took me back some years ago when I seemed to be facing a similar situation. 1.0 `Three' and not `Two' Aspects of Life I found that there are three aspects to one's life, and not two. They are `life in the world (career)', `life in the family (duty)' and `life within oneself (self)'. Life itself seems to be a kind of circle; one starts with the self as a child, moves into family, enters into a career and finally tries to re-discover one's self. On analysis, the life in the career is an adjunct to life in the family. Career provides the `means' to sustain, nourish and serve the family. Career and family are thus intertwined and mutually supportive. Career provides the funds, social position and community support, to help look after the family. In the normal course, career provides an outlet for one's physical and mental capabilities; family provides an outlet for one's emotional propensities. Thus both family and career form the basis for what is called `duty'. This concept is called `dharma' in spiritual language. This duty is a sine qua non, a necessity, for fulfilling the important objectives of this life. Effective performance of this duty ensures that one's duty in life is fulfilled effectively. Through a reasonably successful career one contributes to the happiness of family. This is the greatest `social service' for a householder or `grihasta'. As a student and a bachelor, I had a particular view of life. But the moment I married, my whole view of life changed. Career and family together is what Sri Krishna, in my humble opinion, calls `Para Dharma'. 2.0 Self and Atma Dharma However, as you have discovered, and as all our scriptures point out, there is `Self'. This is the important aspect. As an individual, my own `Self' is extremely important. If this `Self' is not in a state of balance, in harmony, and at peace, nothing is possible in the outside world. A confused and disturbed person cannot fulfill his duty in the world. A person who is disturbed or confused finds it difficult to perform his duty effectively in his career and hence in his family. A person in this condition experiences `conflict'. This conflict is essentially between himself and the world. How does one get rid of this confusion or conflict? The answer is clearly given by Sri Krishna in the Gita. It is called `Swa Dharma'. The term `Swa' means `Atma'. One has a duty to the Self or Atma just as one has a duty to career and family. The duty to the Self is simply to be able to relate to the Self or Atma. Most of us in our preoccupations with career and family tend to simply forget to relate to the Self; sometimes even to remember the Self. In some cases one may not be even aware of the existence of the Self. In earlier times it was a tradition to induct or initiate a young person into the awareness of the Self through a ceremony called `Upanayanam'. With this the initiate moved into the custody of a teacher and entered formal education called `Brahmacharya'. In this process he was not only taught a variety of secular skills but also a number of spiritual skills and knowledge. This prepared the initiate to face his professional and family life with considerable equanimity. In modern times this process of initiation has lost its meaning and education does not have an iota of spiritual knowledge or skills. This could be the reason for so many of us feeling a sense of conflict with ourselves. The key to the elimination of this feeling of conflict, frustration and helplessness is to rediscover the Self or Atma. 3.0 Spiritual Development an Anchor. All spiritual practices are beneficial for this purpose. In my case, I started with worship and prayer to a personal deity. Slowly I progressed to the Gita, fortunately at the hands of Swami Chinmayananda. I got introduced to Swami Vivekananda and through his writings to all forms of Yoga. Marriage introduced me to the Puranas, to the concept of the Divine Mother and to pilgrimages. I discovered Sri Ramakrishna and got introduced to the concept of Sadhana and Japa and Dhyana, to the possibility of the God Principle being available in human form. Through this I became interested in Advaita and the Unity of Godhead. It was somewhere at this point that I found myself increasingly sensitive to problems at work. This automatically reflected in tensions at home. But somehow, through this process, Divinity seemed to come recurrently to my rescue in the form of my Guru. Holding on to His Feet, I felt anchored and safe, while the storms of all sorts of problems seemed to be waging in the world around me. Today, after nearly a decade and a half after retirement, I cannot quite say there are no conflicts. But increasingly there is a feeling of unity, of being a witness, of appreciation that all is Divine and that that very Divinity is my own Self. 4.0 In Conclusion I sincerely appreciate your feelings. There is no standard panacea for the problems. The world continues to struggle to correct its mistakes and seems to compound them sometimes with more mistakes. But please keep your faith in the Self intact. Your innermost core is the Self. Become interested and develop closeness to the Self. Increasing awareness of your Self will make all external conflicts slowly fade away. In the world, do your duty with dedication, sincerity and ardor, both to your profession and to your family. Be honest to yourself that you did your best. That Self within you, Atman, Brahman, God or by whatever name you want to call it, will show you the way, guide you, protect you and bless you. People like me, at the end of this mortal existence, depend on you and your generation to care for the world, to uphold Dharma, to live an honest and dedicated life, to foster families, to guide the future generations. I was a little hesitant to post this extremely naïve and simple note on the thread. I toyed with the idea that I would send it to you off list. Then I remembered that almost five years ago when I had hesitantly joined this list, on a similar matter, I had written to Prof VK. Like Dennisji to you, he immediately advised me to put it on the list. I greatly benefited from the comments. So I am posting it on the list in the hope that I will also perhaps receive much in the form of help. Please feel free to ask any further questions. Warm regards and God Bless Mohan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2009 Report Share Posted April 18, 2009 Dear Friends, We have taken this birth with certain Prarabdha. What we have to do is only Duties, as per the Dharmas prescribed in the Spiritual Texts. Do them in the name of God, so that Karma becomes Karmayoga. Take the results as Prasada from God. If you can do this daily, there will be no problem. Yes, duties will vary from person to person and from time to time. With Best Regards, N.S. Parasuraman http://in.geocities.com/parasu41/index.html --- On Sat, 18/4/09, smnm1010 <smnm1010 wrote: smnm1010 <smnm1010 Re: seeking guidance on a real life conflict advaitin Saturday, 18 April, 2009, 9:04 PM advaitin@ s.com, " V. Shankar " <shankar_v1@ ...> wrote: > > Dear members of the advaitin list, > I wrote the following mail to Dennis-ji (with whom I have had some earlier exchanges) to get his perspective, since I was a little hesitant initially about posting to the group. But he strongly urged me to post my mail to the entire list, so here it is. Pranams Sri Sankarji, Your post on the `conflict' you have been facing took me back some years ago when I seemed to be facing a similar situation. 1.0 `Three' and not `Two' Aspects of Life I found that there are three aspects to one's life, and not two. They are `life in the world (career)', `life in the family (duty)' and `life within oneself (self)'. Life itself seems to be a kind of circle; one starts with the self as a child, moves into family, enters into a career and finally tries to re-discover one's self. On analysis, the life in the career is an adjunct to life in the family. Career provides the `means' to sustain, nourish and serve the family. Career and family are thus intertwined and mutually supportive. Career provides the funds, social position and community support, to help look after the family. In the normal course, career provides an outlet for one's physical and mental capabilities; family provides an outlet for one's emotional propensities. Thus both family and career form the basis for what is called `duty'. This concept is called `dharma' in spiritual language. This duty is a sine qua non, a necessity, for fulfilling the important objectives of this life. Effective performance of this duty ensures that one's duty in life is fulfilled effectively. Through a reasonably successful career one contributes to the happiness of family. This is the greatest `social service' for a householder or `grihasta'. As a student and a bachelor, I had a particular view of life. But the moment I married, my whole view of life changed. Career and family together is what Sri Krishna, in my humble opinion, calls `Para Dharma'. 2.0 Self and Atma Dharma However, as you have discovered, and as all our scriptures point out, there is `Self'. This is the important aspect. As an individual, my own `Self' is extremely important. If this `Self' is not in a state of balance, in harmony, and at peace, nothing is possible in the outside world. A confused and disturbed person cannot fulfill his duty in the world. A person who is disturbed or confused finds it difficult to perform his duty effectively in his career and hence in his family. A person in this condition experiences `conflict'. This conflict is essentially between himself and the world. How does one get rid of this confusion or conflict? The answer is clearly given by Sri Krishna in the Gita. It is called `Swa Dharma'. The term `Swa' means `Atma'. One has a duty to the Self or Atma just as one has a duty to career and family. The duty to the Self is simply to be able to relate to the Self or Atma. Most of us in our preoccupations with career and family tend to simply forget to relate to the Self; sometimes even to remember the Self. In some cases one may not be even aware of the existence of the Self. In earlier times it was a tradition to induct or initiate a young person into the awareness of the Self through a ceremony called `Upanayanam' . With this the initiate moved into the custody of a teacher and entered formal education called `Brahmacharya' . In this process he was not only taught a variety of secular skills but also a number of spiritual skills and knowledge.. This prepared the initiate to face his professional and family life with considerable equanimity. In modern times this process of initiation has lost its meaning and education does not have an iota of spiritual knowledge or skills. This could be the reason for so many of us feeling a sense of conflict with ourselves. The key to the elimination of this feeling of conflict, frustration and helplessness is to rediscover the Self or Atma. 3.0 Spiritual Development an Anchor. All spiritual practices are beneficial for this purpose. In my case, I started with worship and prayer to a personal deity. Slowly I progressed to the Gita, fortunately at the hands of Swami Chinmayananda. I got introduced to Swami Vivekananda and through his writings to all forms of Yoga. Marriage introduced me to the Puranas, to the concept of the Divine Mother and to pilgrimages. I discovered Sri Ramakrishna and got introduced to the concept of Sadhana and Japa and Dhyana, to the possibility of the God Principle being available in human form. Through this I became interested in Advaita and the Unity of Godhead. It was somewhere at this point that I found myself increasingly sensitive to problems at work. This automatically reflected in tensions at home. But somehow, through this process, Divinity seemed to come recurrently to my rescue in the form of my Guru. Holding on to His Feet, I felt anchored and safe, while the storms of all sorts of problems seemed to be waging in the world around me. Today, after nearly a decade and a half after retirement, I cannot quite say there are no conflicts. But increasingly there is a feeling of unity, of being a witness, of appreciation that all is Divine and that that very Divinity is my own Self. 4.0 In Conclusion I sincerely appreciate your feelings. There is no standard panacea for the problems. The world continues to struggle to correct its mistakes and seems to compound them sometimes with more mistakes. But please keep your faith in the Self intact. Your innermost core is the Self. Become interested and develop closeness to the Self. Increasing awareness of your Self will make all external conflicts slowly fade away. In the world, do your duty with dedication, sincerity and ardor, both to your profession and to your family. Be honest to yourself that you did your best. That Self within you, Atman, Brahman, God or by whatever name you want to call it, will show you the way, guide you, protect you and bless you. People like me, at the end of this mortal existence, depend on you and your generation to care for the world, to uphold Dharma, to live an honest and dedicated life, to foster families, to guide the future generations. I was a little hesitant to post this extremely naïve and simple note on the thread. I toyed with the idea that I would send it to you off list. Then I remembered that almost five years ago when I had hesitantly joined this list, on a similar matter, I had written to Prof VK. Like Dennisji to you, he immediately advised me to put it on the list. I greatly benefited from the comments. So I am posting it on the list in the hope that I will also perhaps receive much in the form of help. Please feel free to ask any further questions. Warm regards and God Bless Mohan Cricket on your mind? Visit the ultimate cricket website. Enter http://beta.cricket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2009 Report Share Posted April 18, 2009 --- On Sat, 4/18/09, smnm1010 <smnm1010 wrote: ........ But please keep your faith in the Self intact. Your innermost core is the Self. Become interested and develop closeness to the Self. Increasing awareness of your Self will make all external conflicts slowly fade away. In the world, do your duty with dedication, sincerity and ardor, both to your profession and to your family. Be honest to yourself that you did your best. That Self within you, Atman, Brahman, God or by whatever name you want to call it, will show you the way, guide you, protect you and bless you. ------------ Shree Mohan - PraNAms You have picturized the sanatana dharma beautifully. Thanks for sharing. Hari Om! Sadananda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2009 Report Share Posted April 19, 2009 > > Pranams Sri Sankarji, > Your post on the `conflict' you have been facing took me back some years ago when I seemed to be facing a similar situation. > 1.0 `Three' and not `Two' Aspects of Life > > I found that there are three aspects to one's life, and not two. Pranams Sri Mohan-ji, Thank you so much for your wonderful post. It is so simply and sincerely written that I could connect to it at once. I really appreciate your efforts (and that of other group members too) to share your wisdom and experience. thanks and regards, shankar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2009 Report Share Posted April 19, 2009 Namaste, Mohan-ji I like your 'three aspects' of life. Some years ago, when I was vacationing in Wilmington, DE, at my daughter's place, several friends from the University of Delawere, some of whom were my former students at Pilani, gathered together for a dinner and after the dinner the conversation centred on a question very similar to Shankar's question on this thread. When the conversation shifted to the topic of spirituality as a necessary and integral part of one's continuing interest, the question was raised: " How do we find time for all the different interests that we have. We are always short of time " . And then I talked about how we generally waste our time on several trivial things, like directionless chatting, standing before the mirror and decorating ourselves, and so on. They finally pinpointed at my criticism and asked me whether I could apportion the different interests in terms of daily time to be spent. Finally we agreed on the following, which, incidentally, takes good care of your 'three aspects of life': Personal attention and family: 3 hours Food : 2 hours Professional advancement: 2 hours (On office days, this will be merged with office work) Enjoyment: 2 hours (On Office days: Zero) Socialising: 2 hours (On Office days: Zero) Buffer: 2 hours. (On Office days, Zero) Meditation, Worship and Spiritual living: 3 hours. (On Office days, this will be 2 hours) Sleep: 8 hours. Some individual adjustment may have to be made, depending on the commuting time to the Office. This adjustment has to be only between the last two items in the above list. How would you like it? PraNAms to all advaitins. profvk > > Pranams Sri Sankarji, > Your post on the `conflict' you have been facing took me back some years ago when I seemed to be facing a similar situation. > 1.0 `Three' and not `Two' Aspects of Life > > I found that there are three aspects to one's life, and not two. They are `life in the world (career)', `life in the family (duty)' and `life within oneself (self)'. Life itself seems to be a kind of circle; one starts with the self as a child, moves into family, enters into a career and finally tries to re-discover one's self. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2009 Report Share Posted April 19, 2009 namaste Bhaskerji, Saashtaanga namaskarams to you. " I must confess here that I am still a vedanti who knows vairAgya but ONLY on paper " You always hit the hammer on the nail's head properly When there is a slightest disturbance I don't kow where all the vairagya that has been studied and heard from the teachers vanish!!! only finding a solution for the problem remains on the surface. E.g a negligible issue at the dining table - lack of salt or a pinch more. pranams Lakshmi Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to http://messenger./invite/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 praNAm all, Hari Om, Bhaskarji, > > I dont know how efficacious this middle path would be in the severe onslaught of saMsAra...I heard somewhere that *there is no half measure in sAdhana* and rAma & kAma both cannot travel in a same boat etc. etc. The point is well taken. You are right, but it is not a middle path in the sense of balancing Rama as well as Kama. It is a path dedicated to chitta shuddhi, one that fades out Kama and fades in Rama, one that is needed before taking to saMnyAsa. Else, the same person on saMnyAsa just becomes a veshadhAri, not saMnyAsi. Anyway, you know all that, I just wanted to clarify that I find concentrating on sAdhana, while not being more " out into the world " and thereby reducing the " severe onslaught of saMsAra " better suited for me. This too may be a half measure, but its the better half of that measure for me. >....I must confess here that I am still a vedanti who knows vairAgya but ONLY on paper :-)) So must I, there's no dispute there. Hence most of us are stepping through sAdhana cAtushTaya, aren't we. gurorarpaNamastu, --Praveen R. Bhat /* Through what should one know That owing to which all this is known! [br.Up. 4.5.15] */ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 advaitin , " V. Krishnamurthy " <profvk wrote: > > Namaste, Mohan-ji > > I like your 'three aspects' of life. > > Personal attention and family: 3 hours > Food : 2 hours > Professional advancement: 2 hours (On office days, this will be merged with office work) > Enjoyment: 2 hours (On Office days: Zero) > Socialising: 2 hours (On Office days: Zero) > Buffer: 2 hours. (On Office days, Zero) > Meditation, Worship and Spiritual living: 3 hours. (On Office days, this will be 2 hours) > Sleep: 8 hours. > How would you like it? > PraNAms to all advaitins. > profvk Pranams Prof VK ji, Thanks very much for your post on Time Budgeting for young people . I am sorry for the delay in commenting because of some preoccupations ending with casting my vote today. I was very disinclined to vote because of various problems I perceived in the world around me. But then, agonizing over it, I recollected that my paternal grandfather and my father's eldest brother were both very serious Gandhians in their time and the family had apparently given up lucrative professions and gone to jail in the 1920s as part of the Non-Co-operation movement. The family had subsequently struggled hard to survive and it was only in the next generation that some stability had come. I realized that to exercise this precious franchise for which so many people had sacrificed so much was a sacred duty and finally went and voted. I reorganized your time allocations and compared it with my own framework when I was in my forties. It looks as follows: Self in 1979 Work 12 hrs ( incl 3hrs commute) ---- nil on holiday Family 1hr 15 hrs on holiday incl food Food 2hrs Sleep 8hrs 8hrs on holiday Self 1 hr ( mostly ablutions, bath,etc) same on holiday A young working executive finds practically no time for himself on a normal working day, whether in India or the US. Indeed he may find practically no time even for family. For all intents and purposes I was what could be called a `workaholic'. I gradually became more and more irritable and fussy. It took some remarkable yelling, banging and throwing tantrums by my daughters to bring home to me that they were in fact missing me . I changed forever and it became a routine for them to wait for me to wash and change them in the evenings and put them to bed with a story or two. Holidays were one great romp and we invariably went out to Juhu beach or to see the latest films. We discovered the Ramakrishna Mission at Khar and it slowly became a routine to attend the evening lecture at the Mission on Sundays and then attend the arathi before returning home. Festival days were great fun at the Mission. That was how my life revolved around work and family. All professional activities came under work. I am sure your suggestion would have worked well for many of the young people. I am inclined to feel that if one were to spend all one's time in a Dharmic way with career and family during our younger years, that itself will take us very far. I am deeply impressed by Sri Bhaskarji, for example, who seems to manage to make some of his most enlightening expressions from his workplace. I am also sure so many variations of this theme must be there right on this list. But I worry whether it would be correct to seek sharing of that on this list? In fact I was in two minds whether this message itself should go off-list to you. But again I thought it might interest someone out there so am sending it. So glad to hear from you and see that you are active as always with your beautiful translations. One remembers the `Soundarya Lahiri' series of 2004. I am also so happy that people in your vicinity are benefiting from you spiritually. Warm regards and God Bless Mohan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 advaitin , kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada wrote: > You have picturized the sanatana dharma beautifully. Thanks for sharing. > Hari Om! > Sadananda Pranams Sri Sadanandaji, Thanks to you for a beautiful response which I truly value. I continue to ponder how all this links with the Advaitic approach. When I feel a trifle confident that I may have some clue I will seek the members' help. Warm regards and God Bless Mohan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 advaitin , " V. Shankar " <shankar_v1 wrote: > Pranams Sri Mohan-ji, > Thank you so much for your wonderful post. It is so simply and sincerely written that I could connect to ........ thanks and regards, > shankar Pranams Sri Shankarji, Thanks for your post indicating that you found my message reasonably logical and interesting. I do hope that the tensions and anxieties you were experiencing would have substantially abated in the knowledge that what you (and so many of us) are experiencing is perfectly natural in human life. Your positive response as also the very kind comments of Sri Sadanandaji and Prof VKji tempt me to try and peel off at least one more layer from the simplistic and practical ideas contained in the first post. 1.0 A Strategy for Living - PurushArtha. What we have been talking of when we refer to `duty to career' and `duty to family' is actually a strategy for human life. This approach to life is the beautiful guideline given in our scriptures called `PurushArtha'. It outlines a broad approach to human life. The most important segment of human society is the `Grihastha'. Students, retired folks and ascetics form a relatively small segment of society. They are all sustained and society itself survives on the basis of the efforts and contributions of the `Grihastha'. As an interesting analogy, in modern times in free societies like India and the USA, the so-called `middle class' have become the engine for economic survival and social well being. The concept of the PurushArtha is said to have originated from the Vedas. In 2004, Sri Ken Knightji, an eminent member of this list, and a keen student of the Vedas had stated that this term originated from the Rig Veda (Post No 23076). The term comprises two words, `Purusha' and `Artha'. The word `Purusha' means not only the Divine Principle or Brahman, but also the human spirit. The word `Artha' means not only wealth or value, but also purpose or objective. Thus the concept of `PurushArtha' can be said to indicate `The purpose of human life'. From a spiritual perspective, it can be said to mean `The purpose of Divinity'. Human life can thus be conceived as the ultimate expression of Divine Purpose. PurushArtha is defined as `DharmArtha KAma Moksha'. This aphorism or concise statement includes the four components of PurushArtha that is, Dharma, Artha, Kama and Moksha. 2.0 Strategic Means I - Duty to Career - Dharmya Artha. Righteous performance in one's career or profession is an important means of achieving the purpose of life. `Artha' in this context refers to the economic aspect of life, through which assets, possessions, wealth and steady flow of money is achieved. In this process, one is forced to communicate and interact with other people. Professional life, like every limb of society is a huge network of people. Interrelationships are critical to helping the network to operate comfortably. Occasionally flare-ups may occur. What is important is how one carries oneself in this scenario. What is the context, the framework, in which one should operate? The scriptures indicate this context as `Dharma'. This is generally translated as `righteousness'. It is, in itself, a subject matter worthy of careful study. There are many scintillating expositions in this very list on `Dharma'. Thus, when we are talking of `Artha' as a strategic means for fulfilling the purpose of life, we are talking of `Dharmya Artha' , not just `Artha', that is, career or profession carried out in an honest manner, following the dictates of one's conscience rather than the exigencies of the situation. Sri Krishna explains this beautifully when He explains what has come to be called `Karma Yoga' to Arjuna in the Gita. Sri Krishna seems to anticipate the tensions and conflict that so many of us face in our career when He states in 3.30: " Mayi SarvANi KarmANi SanyasyAthAtmachetasa NirAshir Nirmamo Bhuthwa Yuddhyaswa Vigatajwaraha " `Renouncing all actions in Me, with thy thought resting on the Self, being free from hopes, free from selfishness, devoid of fever (anxiety), do thou fight.' In my very first exposure to the Gita, I was blessed to hear Swami Chinmayananda's brilliant exposition on this stanza and the whole of the Chapter III in the summer of 1958. It made an everlasting impression on the young student. A study of `Karma Yoga' will give you an excellent basis for `Dharmya Artha'. 3.0 Strategic Means II - Duty to Family - Dharmya Kama. In modern psychology it is said that the human brain operates in two modes. The left brain focuses on logic, rationality and thought. The right brain is oriented towards intuition, creativity and feelings. Our scriptures recognize these two aspects of the human psyche or mind, the rational and the emotional. If `Artha' represents logical thought as largely applicable in one's career, `KAma' represents the potential for human emotionality. Just as modern psychology suggests that success comes to the person who balances the left and right brain functions, in the PurushArtha strategy also, importance is given to balancing the rational with the emotional potential of the human being. As career is the means to operate in the realms of thought, the family is the means to express one's emotions. It is significant that the Vedas do not talk of the `Arthashta' ashrama but call that phase of life as `Grihastha'. The home is a very important aspect of life because it allows one's emotional potential to have a free play in a safe and sacred environment. `KAma' is often described as `lust' or `desire'. There is another meaning ( Monier Williams) that is, `longing for'. KAma can be said to be a `longing for fulfillment'. This longing for fulfillment or completeness or perfection is a natural, in-built trait in the human being. Human life is a search for fulfillment and that motivational impulse is `KAma'. There are three expressions in Sanskrit, `Sphruha', `AkAnksha' and ` KAma'. `Sphruha' has a touch of envy associated with it. Monier Williams translates it as `desire, long for, envy'. `AkAnksha' on the other hand seems to imply `desire, long for, endeavor to gain'. The word `KAma' has a touch of pleasure and enjoyment. These are natural characteristics of a human being. However, just as one can be obsessed with wealth no matter what the means is, similarly one can be obsessed with enjoyment no matter what the means is. The PurushArtha concept prescribes the path of `Dharmya KAma' instead of just KAma just as it suggests `Dharmya Artha' instead of just `Artha'. Dharmya KAma is that means of fulfilling one's desires which will permit one to evolve as a human being. That is the basis of family life and seeking the happiness not of oneself alone but of all members of the family. It sets out the parameters for one's relationships with spouse, children, parents and other members of the family. By seeking the fulfillment of family happiness one paves the way to the ultimate personal happiness called `AnandA'. Dharmya KAma teaches one to forget oneself in the affection and enjoyment of the family. There is no selfishness here at all. Devotion to the family is the foundation for devotion to the Divine Principle or God. 4.0 The Strategic Objective - Moksha. Our scriptures define the strategic objective of human life as `Moksha'. The term `Moksha' derives from the same root as `Mukthi' which means freedom. Freedom from what? The answer is freedom from re-birth. The strategic objective of human life, considered as the pinnacle of evolution of the soul, is to become completely free from the possibility of being born again. How is this to be attained? The answer is inbuilt in the term `Moksha' when considered as a combination of two terms `Moha' (attachment) and `Kshaya' (destruction). Thus the means of attaining it is said to be the destruction of attachment. This is a conundrum which is typical of Indian philosophical thought and discourse. It calls for a great deal of careful analysis to accept that all that we enjoy and celebrate as `life' with all its commitments, involvements and consequent attachments, has to be given up one day to achieve the very purpose of this life. But this apparent contradiction embodies within itself, the need to learn detachment. It is this attitude of detachment that is cultivated at every stage (or ashrama) of human life. `Brahmacharya', `Grihastha', `Vanaprastha' and `Sanyasa' are progressive steps in the cultivation of detachment. Everyone goes through `Brahmacharya'; however, a small minority of `evolved' humans jumps straight to `Sanyasa' because the requisite detachment has already been achieved in an earlier life. The majority of us go through `Grihastha' and `Vanaprastha' before reaching, if at all, `Sanyasa'. In effect, therefore, after leading a Dharma-based life, after carrying out one's duties to career and family, one has to give up all attachments. This is expressed by Sri Krishna in Sloka 66 of Chapter 18, the chapter of the Gita that deals with `Sanyasa Yoga', when He says : " Sarva Dharman Parithyajya Mamekam Sharanam Vraja Aham Tvam Sarva Papebhyo Moksha Ishyami Ma Shucha! " `Abandoning all righteous duties, seek Me as thy Sole Refuge, I will liberate thee from all sins; do thou not grieve!' 5.0 Conclusion. The PurushArtha concept thus not only gives guidelines for leading life but also prepares one for the ultimate discovery of Self. Moksha is not only freedom from the life of career and family but the realization of one's true identity. Strange as it may seem, that identity is itself nothing other than Dharma. The Self appears in human life as Dharma. Thus Paradharma becomes the stepping stone for Swadharma. May that Brahman Himself bless you with this discovery! 6.0 Some References on the Web : http://www.advaita.org.uk/discourses/teachers/objectives_ram.htm advaitin/message/30424 advaitin/message/25140 advaitin/message/23434 advaitin/message/23071 advaitin/message/23076 http://members.tripod.com/antibjp/archives/chapter2a.html http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/disc/disc_76.html http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/sadh/sadh_07.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purusharthas http://www.vmission.org.in/vedanta/articles/4puru.htm Some of the writings may sound different to what I have stated above. But as we are observing from Sri Ananda Woodji's recent writings on the etymological and other aspects of our Scriptures many interpretations are possible and there is always the need to look at these thoughts from the fresh angle of current experiences. What matters is that by this process you discover your individual way of looking at it and that will take you to the truth! Warm regards and God Bless Mohan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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