Guest guest Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 advaitin , Sang Kona <sang.kona wrote: > > > Question: If one knows a person who has the masculine qualities of head and heart. This person is also intelligent, dedicated and sincere worker (say almost a very good Karma yogi). But such a person is not exposed to Vedantic scriptures. > > Now if I have to explain such a person to study the scriptures in layman's language and as brief as possible. (Or the other way to look at it is " Why You are studying the scriptures? " ). Without using Vedantic/ Sanskrit terms, how would you do? And assuming I have only one shot / chance to explain? > Regards, > Sang > Hari Om Sri Sang ji, Pranaams! The person depicted in first para - intelligent and wise - is like Arjuna who was in need of the advice. The Lord, the teacher, effectively does the job which you want to do thro second para vide verses 41-45 of Chapter II of Bhagavad Gita. Similar is the purpose of verses 3-7 of Vivekachoodamani. Whether one is a kAmakAmI or a karmayogI, the advice is same - approach a teacher and learn from him (BG 4.34; Vivekachoodamani 8) In Shri Guru Smriti, Br. Pranipata Chaitanya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 Shree Sang - PraNAms Before you can explain to any other, first are you convinced that the study of scriptures is important? Why it is important? Unless you are thoroughly convinced there is no way you can convince any other. Is it possible to live in this world without knowing 'who I am?'? And try to know everything else about the world. The world is not for world sake but for my sake. I want to gain maximum happiness out of this world so that I am absolutely and eternally happy. Any dependence on any person or any thing for happiness is slavery - If I recognize that the happiness comes myself not from any other - that is freedom. Hence Krishna says - prajaahaati yadaa kaamaan sarvaan paartha manogataan, aatmanyeva aatmanaa tuShTaH, sthitaprajnasya uchyate| one who revels in himself by himself is free from dependence and he does not have to depend on anything other than himself for his full and complete happiness. How do I gain that happiness from myself? For that I have to know myself; right now I take myself as this and this which I am not. This is an object and I am the subject and subject cannot be an object. Then who can I know - but any knowledge that I learn from anywhere else is only knowledge of ..this or that only - not about myself. All knowledge of this and that.. is an objective knowledge and subject is that which cannot be objectified. Scriptures are called darshanas or mirrors to show me who I am in contrast to what I think I am. That is the reason I have to look into scripture to learn about myself just as I look into mirror to see my face. Why do I need mirror to see my face? without the mirror is it impossible to see my face. It is for that reason why I need scriptures. For this to communicate, you should first yourself be convinced about this truth. Hope this helps. Hari Om! Sadananda --- On Sun, 4/26/09, Sang Kona <sang.kona wrote: Sang Kona <sang.kona Vivek Choodamani Verse # 5 advaitin Sunday, April 26, 2009, 2:50 PM Vivek Choodamani Verse # 5 itaù konvasti müòhätmä yastu svärthe pramädyati | durlabhaà mänuñaà dehaà präpya taträpi pauruñam || 5|| Meaning: Is there a greater fool than the man who, having got the rare chance of a human birth and there too, the masculine qualities of the head and heart, falls short in his efforts to rediscover himself? Question: If one knows a person who has the masculine qualities of head and heart. This person is also intelligent, dedicated and sincere worker (say almost a very good Karma yogi). But such a person is not exposed to Vedantic scriptures. Now if I have to explain such a person to study the scriptures in layman’s language and as brief as possible. (Or the other way to look at it is “Why You are studying the scriptures?â€). Without using Vedantic/ Sanskrit terms, how would you do? And assuming I have only one shot / chance to explain? Regards, Sang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 Sang Kona <sang.kona wrote: > > Now if I have to explain such a person to study the scriptures in layman's > language and as brief as possible. (Or the other way to look at it is " Why > You are studying the scriptures? " ). Without using Vedantic/ Sanskrit terms, > how would you do? And assuming I have only one shot / chance to explain? Dear Sang, regards Part of the readiness of any person to listen to any kind of knowledge, including wordly knowledge, is the willingness to hear and the necessity to ask for that specific knowledge. Preaching is not teaching. Now then, assuming someone willing to know may ask me " Why are you studying the Scriptures? I will respond " To know myself " . A whole new set of questions may derive from here... If he asks " Why should I study the Scriptures? " I'll respond: " To know yourself " , and another set of questions may also pop out... One shot and a world of possibilities. Yours in Bhagavan, Mouna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 Namaste Sang Kona-Ji: Here is my understanding of V.C # 5. I think the transliteration of the above verse is not correct. The last word as far as I know should be " pauruSham " . Not writing it correctly and looking at the second-hand translation probably adds to the confusion !? Before one can understand the term pauruSham, one needs to understand the term puruShaH, which literally means the entity that really enjoys anything that is manifested and often remains the witnesses! " purishete iti puruShaH " . To me the translation does not make sense as the translator seems to have use the term " masculine " . Literally speaking pruruSha is a masculine but in my opinion does not really express the meaning here. For human birth the central core should be humanity and not the masculine as expressed in the translation. The highest good of the human birth needs to be applied to a larger mass of humanity and not just the individual person. If one remains satisfied and limited to his/her own body then that gets classified as a limited selfish purpose. If one looks at Acharya's life he was the greatest proponent of " sannyaasa " , where one discards their " family " per say and expends his energy for a larger good of the society. I regards this as a sacrifice for a larger purpose. If this were not the case then Acharya would have never established various " Matha " throughout India. If his goal was just realization then after realization, he would not not have any reason to travel and go all the way to Kashi to debate Mandanshra. In other words he gave up his own life for a larger purpose for unifying the society that was getting fragmented with individualistic upaasanaa of various individual deities. That is why de-personalized them and encompassed them in a pa~Nacaayatana puujaa. That is what I interpret as the " pauruSham " of our Achaarya. The over all meaning of the V.C. # 5, thus carries a profound meaning that one needs to go and find his/her own purpose for their life and act accordingly because the human beings are the only one who can possibly recognize this. However, if one fails to to do so then the individual is and probably remains the biggest fool (muuDhaatmaa). Hope thois helps. Just my 2 cents. Regards, Dr. Yadu advaitin , Sang Kona <sang.kona wrote: > > Vivek Choodamani Verse # 5 > > itaù konvasti müòhätmä yastu svärthe pramädyati | > > durlabhaà mänuñaà dehaà präpya taträpi pauruñam || 5|| > > Meaning: Is there a greater fool than the man who, having got the rare > chance of a human birth and there too, the masculine qualities of the head > and heart, falls short in his efforts to rediscover himself? > > Question: If one knows a person who has the masculine qualities of head and > heart. This person is also intelligent, dedicated and sincere worker (say > almost a very good Karma yogi). But such a person is not exposed to Vedantic > scriptures. > > Now if I have to explain such a person to study the scriptures in layman's > language and as brief as possible. (Or the other way to look at it is " Why > You are studying the scriptures? " ). Without using Vedantic/ Sanskrit terms, > how would you do? And assuming I have only one shot / chance to explain? > Regards, > Sang > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 PranAms to everyone, Thanks to everyone for the replies. Dr. Yadu-ji => Masculine does not mean the gender here. It is the qualities of the heart and head. Swami Chinmayanandaji’s commentary explains what masculine means, which I did not mention it here. Dr. Sada-ji => I don’t know to what extend my conviction is. But I know that by continuing to do sadhana my conviction is getting stronger. What I was looking for is that, I find it extremely difficult to explain some body “Why I am studying scriptures? “. I generally don’t reply to this to most of the people. For some who are little religiously inclined, but not studying scripture, I ask to attend the study group (at least 3 times) and then decide if you want to continue or not. That’s all I tell, end of the story, no further discussions. When this verse came up, I realized it is very difficult to sum up the answer to this question in a brief and concise manner. At least I am not that articulate or skillful writer. So I thought may someone on this group can give me some insight to answer this question. Summing up in layman’s language is really difficult for me. If some body has a response would appreciate to know. Regards, Sang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 advaitin , Sang Kona <sang.kona wrote: > > > > What I was looking for is that, I find it extremely difficult to > explain some body " Why I am studying scriptures? " Namaste, The Sanskrit word for scripture is 'shAstra', meaning that which 'instructs' (shAsti) and thereby 'protects' (trAyate). One who explains the shAstra by personal example is called an AchArya (Acharati = conducts one's life). The Vedas are regarded as the principal scripture by those who are known as Hindus. The study of shAstra is for the purpose of understanding the goals of life (puruShArtha) and how to fulfil them. The supreme and ideal goal is spoken of as mokSha, spiritual liberation/ salvation/ freedom from bondage (of birth-death cycles), etc. The Gita is the quint-essence of Vedic wisdom, and the ideal person has been described as 'sthitapraj~na/ guNAtIta /yogArUDha/ brahmabhUta/ etc. The moral philosophy underlying the scripture here may be compared to Kant's 'categorical imperative' - " Act only according to that maxim whereby you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law. " Hope this is helpful. Regards, Sunder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 advaitin , Sang Kona <sang.kona wrote: > > PranAms to everyone, > > Thanks to everyone for the replies. > > Dr. Yadu-ji => Masculine does not mean the gender here. It is the qualities > of the heart and head. Swami Chinmayanandaji's commentary explains what > masculine means, which I did not mention it here. > > > Regards, > > Sang > > Namaste Sri Sang-Ji: One of the reason why I commented on the word " pauruSham " was because it was not correctly transcribed in the original post which did not make sense and the term used did not make sense. Not having read original commentry by Swami Chinmayanandaji's I am unable to uderstand " heart & head " at this time. > > ................. präpya taträpi pauruñam || 5|| > IMO - This verse is an importent banner for all the saadhakaa's to keep their eyes on the goal " pauruSham " (and not " pauruñam " !!). Regards, Dr. Yadu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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