Guest guest Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 namaste. :-) as much as i am attracted to words, ideas, abstractions, analyses ... i see more and more clearly that i often use them as a way to avoid connecting directly to the divine through meditation. not sure why: fear, laziness, familiarity, habit? perhaps it doesn't matter why. my question: to what extent can one dispense with indirect components of learning (words, ideas, analysis, etc.) and go straight for the direct connection? human meditating (realizing) divine. thank you, friends. :-) rachMiel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 namsakram, to ask a simple question, you have used, apprx 70 words. can you think of asking the same question without these words? How can communication take place except thru language? be it words, pics, sounds ...some form or other? and without communication, can vision transfer take place? without vision transfer, can knowledge be assimilated? namaskaram --- On Thu, 21/5/09, rachmiel <rachmiel wrote: rachmiel <rachmiel are words, readings, study necessary? advaitin Thursday, 21 May, 2009, 9:44 PM namaste. :-) as much as i am attracted to words, ideas, abstractions, analyses ... i see more and more clearly that i often use them as a way to avoid connecting directly to the divine through meditation. not sure why: fear, laziness, familiarity, habit? perhaps it doesn't matter why. my question: to what extent can one dispense with indirect components of learning (words, ideas, analysis, etc.) and go straight for the direct connection? human meditating (realizing) divine. thank you, friends. :-) rachMiel Explore and discover exciting holidays and getaways with India Travel http://in.travel./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 Rachmiel - PraNams In a simple answer - they are all necessary until one understands that the truth is beyond the words, reading, study and even meditation. That understanding is gained by clear understanding the nature of the reality through words, reading, study and meditation. Hence Vedanta says - the proven path for success is shravaNa, manana and nidhidhyaasana - first listening to the scriptures, reflecting on the teaching and contemplating on the truth. There are no other short cuts. All that is necessary to remove the wrong preconceived notions in the mind, which JK calls as conditionings. Hari Om! Sadananda --- On Thu, 5/21/09, rachmiel <rachmiel wrote: rachmiel <rachmiel are words, readings, study necessary? advaitin Thursday, May 21, 2009, 12:14 PM namaste. :-) as much as i am attracted to words, ideas, abstractions, analyses ... i see more and more clearly that i often use them as a way to avoid connecting directly to the divine through meditation. not sure why: fear, laziness, familiarity, habit? perhaps it doesn't matter why. my question: to what extent can one dispense with indirect components of learning (words, ideas, analysis, etc.) and go straight for the direct connection? human meditating (realizing) divine. thank you, friends. :-) rachMiel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 namaste, namaskaram, and thank you for the response. :-) > without communication, can vision transfer take place? no. though i don't think communication necessarily involves words, ideas, concepts. > without vision transfer, can knowledge be assimilated? i don't know. i'm not even sure i understand what you mean by 'vision transfer' and i don't want to guess, for fear of getting it wrong. unless i am mistaken, you are addressing the task of acquiring knowledge. i am addressing that of connecting directly to the divine. in advaita, is the knowledge you speak of NECESSARY to connect to the divine? thank you. rachMiel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 Hi Rachmiel, You seem to be repeatedly making the same wrong assumption. You already *are* the divine. There is no question of 'connecting' - that is one of the misconceptions. The problem is that your mind, filled with these misconceptions, is preventing realization of this truth. The misconceptions have to be removed. This is the function of the teaching of advaita - and it takes place via speech from a guru and listening on your part. Best wishes, Dennis advaitin [advaitin ] On Behalf Of rachmiel Thursday, May 21, 2009 5:53 PM advaitin Re: are words, readings, study necessary? <> no. though i don't think communication necessarily involves words, ideas, concepts. .. unless i am mistaken, you are addressing the task of acquiring knowledge. i am addressing that of connecting directly to the divine. in advaita, is the knowledge you speak of NECESSARY to connect to the divine? thank you. rachMiel .. <http://geo./serv?s=97359714/grpId=15939/grpspId=1705075991/msgId=4 5158/stime=1242924830/nc1=1/nc2=2/nc3=3> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 namaste, dr. sadananda. :-) as always, a delightfully clear and concise response to my question. you should be a scientist. (wait: you ARE a scientist! ;-) ) i shall now research shravaNa, manana and nidhidhyaasana. may i ask one more thing? how can one avoid falling prey to the seduction of words, ideas, concepts? i.e., making intellectual learning a pleasurable game unto itself, which then acts as a devious escape from learning/doing what truly matters? thank you. rachMiel advaitin , kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada wrote: > > > Rachmiel - PraNams > > In a simple answer - they are all necessary until one understands that the truth is beyond the words, reading, study and even meditation. That understanding is gained by clear understanding the nature of the reality through words, reading, study and meditation. Hence Vedanta says - the proven path for success is shravaNa, manana and nidhidhyaasana - first listening to the scriptures, reflecting on the teaching and contemplating on the truth. There are no other short cuts. All that is necessary to remove the wrong preconceived notions in the mind, which JK calls as conditionings. > > Hari Om! > Sadananda > > > --- On Thu, 5/21/09, rachmiel <rachmiel wrote: > > > rachmiel <rachmiel > are words, readings, study necessary? > advaitin > Thursday, May 21, 2009, 12:14 PM > > namaste. :-) > > as much as i am attracted to words, ideas, abstractions, analyses ... i see more and more clearly that i often use them as a way to avoid connecting directly to the divine through meditation. not sure why: fear, laziness, familiarity, habit? perhaps it doesn't matter why. > > my question: to what extent can one dispense with indirect components of learning (words, ideas, analysis, etc.) and go straight for the direct connection? human meditating (realizing) divine. > > thank you, friends. :-) > > rachMiel > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 Rachmiel - PraNAms You have asked very fundamental problem that can arise - the ego and it rises in many many forms - including as a man of letters, and man of words. In vedanta it is called 'I notion'. Hence it is called razor-edge path. Yes one has to be very very carefull not to fall into that trap. Hence discriminative intellect is required to make sure I am after the truth and not to gain more words or vacubalary to talk. The essence of reality is has to understood and not just mastery of scriptuers. For teaching of course you need that - but only to help others on the path. Hope this hepls. Hari Om! Sadananda --- On Thu, 5/21/09, rachmiel <rachmiel wrote: rachmiel <rachmiel Re: are words, readings, study necessary? advaitin Thursday, May 21, 2009, 1:12 PM namaste, dr. sadananda. :-) as always, a delightfully clear and concise response to my question. you should be a scientist. (wait: you ARE a scientist! ;-) ) i shall now research shravaNa, manana and nidhidhyaasana. may i ask one more thing? how can one avoid falling prey to the seduction of words, ideas, concepts? i.e., making intellectual learning a pleasurable game unto itself, which then acts as a devious escape from learning/doing what truly matters? thank you. rachMiel advaitin@ s.com, kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada@ ...> wrote: > > > Rachmiel - PraNams > > In a simple answer - they are all necessary until one understands that the truth is beyond the words, reading, study and even meditation. That understanding is gained by clear understanding the nature of the reality through words, reading, study and meditation. Hence Vedanta says - the proven path for success is shravaNa, manana and nidhidhyaasana - first listening to the scriptures, reflecting on the teaching and contemplating on the truth. There are no other short cuts. All that is necessary to remove the wrong preconceived notions in the mind, which JK calls as conditionings. > > Hari Om! > Sadananda > > > --- On Thu, 5/21/09, rachmiel <rachmiel@.. .> wrote: > > > rachmiel <rachmiel@.. .> > are words, readings, study necessary? > advaitin@ s.com > Thursday, May 21, 2009, 12:14 PM > > namaste. :-) > > as much as i am attracted to words, ideas, abstractions, analyses ... i see more and more clearly that i often use them as a way to avoid connecting directly to the divine through meditation. not sure why: fear, laziness, familiarity, habit? perhaps it doesn't matter why. > > my question: to what extent can one dispense with indirect components of learning (words, ideas, analysis, etc.) and go straight for the direct connection? human meditating (realizing) divine. > > thank you, friends. :-) > > rachMiel > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 > Hi Rachmiel, namaste, dennis. :-) > You seem to be repeatedly making the same wrong assumption. arrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh! story of my life ... ;-) > You already *are* the divine. oh yeah. i keep forgetting that. probably because i understand it intellectually but have never fully realized it. > There is no question of 'connecting' - that is one of the misconceptions. The problem is that your mind, filled with these misconceptions, is preventing realization of this truth. The misconceptions have to be removed. This is the function of the teaching of advaita - and it takes place via speech from a guru and listening on your part. so you are saying a living guru is needed? even for a beginner? what role does meditation play in this? is it not required? thank you, dennis. always good to hear from you. :-) rachMiel > > Best wishes, > > Dennis > > > > advaitin [advaitin ] On Behalf > Of rachmiel > Thursday, May 21, 2009 5:53 PM > advaitin > Re: are words, readings, study necessary? > > <> > no. though i don't think communication necessarily involves words, ideas, > concepts. > > . > unless i am mistaken, you are addressing the task of acquiring knowledge. i > am addressing that of connecting directly to the divine. in advaita, is the > knowledge you speak of NECESSARY to connect to the divine? > > thank you. > > rachMiel > > . > > > <http://geo./serv?s=97359714/grpId=15939/grpspId=1705075991/msgId=4 > 5158/stime=1242924830/nc1=1/nc2=2/nc3=3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 Dear Rachmiel, Once Sri Ramana was asked about how to find one's true Guru. The Sage replied " through intense meditation " . Sometimes Guru comes first, sometimes meditation comes first,....we don't know. Have you heard that saying of Pascal....something like, the Heart has its reasons which the mind cannot know. People turn to search the meaning of life for some reason. If one is authentic to oneself, things slowly fall in place. I sent you links to a couple of articles on my site via private e-mail which you might find useful. Namaste and love to all Yours in Bhagavan Harsha advaitin [advaitin ] On Behalf Of rachmiel Thursday, May 21, 2009 1:26 PM advaitin Re: are words, readings, study necessary? so you are saying a living guru is needed? even for a beginner? what role does meditation play in this? is it not required? thank you, dennis. always good to hear from you. :-) rachMiel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 advaitin , " rachmiel " <rachmiel wrote: > > so you are saying a living guru is needed? even for a beginner? > > what role does meditation play in this? is it not required? Namaste, This parable from the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad may be instructive: http://celextel.org/ V-ii-1: Three classes of Prajapati's sons lived a life of continence with their father, Prajapati (Viraj) – the gods, men and Asuras. The gods, on the completion of their term, said, `Please instruct us'. He told them the syllable `Da' (and asked), `have you understood ?' (They) said, `We have. You tell us: Control yourselves'. (He) said, `Yes, you have understood'. V-ii-2: Then the men said to him, `Please instruct us'. He told them the same syllable `Da' (and asked), `Have you understood ?' (They) said, `We have. You tell us: Give'. (He) said, `Yes, you have understood'. V-ii-3: Then the Asuras said to him, `Please instruct us'. He told them the same syllable `Da' (and asked), `Have you understood ?' (They) said, `We have. You tell us: Have compassion'. (He) said, `Yes, you have understood'. That very thing is repeated by the heavenly voice, the cloud, as `Da', `Da', `Da': `Control yourselves', `Give', and `have compassion'. Therefore one should learn these three – self-control, charity and compassion. Regards, Sunder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 advaitin , " Sunder Hattangadi " <sunderh wrote: > > advaitin , " rachmiel " <rachmiel@> wrote: > > > That very thing is repeated by the heavenly voice, the cloud, as `Da', `Da', `Da': `Control yourselves', `Give', and `have compassion'. Therefore one should learn these three – self-control, charity and compassion. > Namaste, An explanatory note is in order here. The Sanskrit words for Self-control, Giving, and Compassion, are dama, dAna, and dayA respectively, all words starting with the syllable da. Regards, Sunder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 Dear rachMiel, Namaste. I am a novice and study in Chinmaya Mission. Normally I don't write but, felt like sharing my thoughts today. Your first question was about " Connecting to Divinity " and second about " Necessity of scripture study " . 1. Connecting to Divinity: When we talk about " connecting " , we essentially assume " two things " because that is what " connection " is all about ! So we are talking from " relative " standpoint here. Hence, the " Divinity " that we talk about here is " Lord " (Ishwara, Bhagvan). " Connecting to Lord " is really " Invoking that pure love and goodness within " . This " invoking " is not like invoking something that is not already there. It is like " playing on a See-Saw " . On one end sits the " Jiva " (Individual Ego) and on the other end sits the " Ever pure Lord " (the indweller of All beings). When Ego goes down Lord comes up :-). When Ego comes up Lord goes down. :-( oh no..Ouch! So if we learn the skill of keeping our Ego down (not just while meditating but even otherwise while transacting) then Divinity always remains in our heart smiling (connection to divine doesn't get lost). And when we start losing it we can just pray to Him again (this makes our ego go down) and Lord comes up :-) 2. Necessity of scripture study: Let's take an example. Say, we want to go to the top of Himalaya mountain. This journey has two stages. First stage, going from our door step to foot of Himalaya. Second stage, climbing up from foot of Himalaya to top of mountain. Both stages need different skills, different equipments and the challengs are also different. If we compare this to our spiritual journey the first leg of our journey needs all kinds of sadhanas to purify our mind e.g. Serving others, Devotion to Lord, Yoga, Pranayam, meditation etc. This makes our mind pure. We grow in Sattva and learn to keep connected with divinity. Then comes second leg of our journey. This leg is very hard. So, in this leg of our journey, the compassionate divinity that we were connecting to in our first leg of journey, actually manifests in front of us. That is who " Guru " is. This Guru, like a " skilled Sherpa " instructs and guides us how to climb to the top of mountain (Brahman - the absolute) (He doesn't just guide..He literally carries us on His divine shoulders many times :-)). For this second leg of journey Shravan, Manan, Nididhyasan (Study of Scriptures) are most essential. To summarize: 1. To reach our destination both legs of journey are essential. 2. Journey always starts from our door step, so first leg of our journey is essential. Hence, all preliminary sadhanas for purification of mind are needed. We cannot just skip these and directly jump to " inquiry " etc. (just like we can't start our journey from some distant point. If we did that then it will remain in 'planning' phase only ! ) Better to accept what we are, where we are than to pretend something we are not. When mind starts getting pure, inquiry comes easy. (By the way, you might be ready for second leg of journey. I am writing this as information only and not to you personally. I am on my first leg. I can still see the door if I turn around :-).) 3. We can't reach top of the mountain without second leg of journey so shravan, manan, nididhyasan is also most essential. 4. Just like while walking on the path, we study map carefully, we constantly keep track of our whole route, not just first few miles of our journey. So too, even while we are in first leg of our journey we have to know about second leg of our journey also. Hence, along with sadhans for purification of mind; Shravan, Manan, Nididhyasan is also needed. These are my 2 cents on your questions. Love and Regards, Padma > advaitin , kuntimaddi sadananda > > In a simple answer - they are all necessary until one understands that the truth is beyond the words, reading, study and even meditation. That understanding is gained by clear understanding the nature of the reality through words, reading, study and meditation. Hence Vedanta says - the proven path for success is shravaNa, manana and nidhidhyaasana - first listening to the scriptures, reflecting on the teaching and contemplating on the truth. There are no other short cuts. > > --- On Thu, 5/21/09, rachmiel <rachmiel@> wrote: > > as much as i am attracted to words, ideas, abstractions, analyses ... i see more and more clearly that i often use them as a way to avoid connecting directly to the divine through meditation. not sure why: fear, laziness, familiarity, habit? perhaps it doesn't matter why. > > > > my question: to what extent can one dispense with indirect components of learning (words, ideas, analysis, etc.) and go straight for the direct connection? human meditating (realizing) divine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 Padmaji - PraNAms Where have you been! beautiful post. - should be discussing quite often. If your 2 cents are that much, we like to see the whole dollar. Hari Om! Sadananda --- On Fri, 5/22/09, pjoshi99 <pjoshi99 wrote: 4. Just like while walking on the path, we study map carefully, we constantly keep track of our whole route, not just first few miles of our journey. So too, even while we are in first leg of our journey we have to know about second leg of our journey also. Hence, along with sadhans for purification of mind; Shravan, Manan, Nididhyasan is also needed. These are my 2 cents on your questions. Love and Regards, Padma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2009 Report Share Posted May 23, 2009 namaste, padma. i am joyful and honored to receive your responses to my naive (and sincere) beginner questions. i will study this over the next few days. if i have any further questions, i will post them here and await your response (provided, of course, that you have the time). thank you. :-) rachMiel advaitin , " pjoshi99 " <pjoshi99 wrote: > > Dear rachMiel, > Namaste. > > I am a novice and study in Chinmaya Mission. Normally I don't write but, felt like sharing my thoughts today. > > Your first question was about " Connecting to Divinity " and second about " Necessity of scripture study " . > > 1. Connecting to Divinity: > > When we talk about " connecting " , we essentially assume " two things " because that is what " connection " is all about ! So we are talking from " relative " standpoint here. Hence, the " Divinity " that we talk about here is " Lord " (Ishwara, Bhagvan). > > " Connecting to Lord " is really " Invoking that pure love and goodness within " . This " invoking " is not like invoking something that is not already there. It is like " playing on a See-Saw " . On one end sits the " Jiva " (Individual Ego) and on the other end sits the " Ever pure Lord " (the indweller of All beings). When Ego goes down Lord comes up :-). When Ego comes up Lord goes down. :-( oh no..Ouch! So if we learn the skill of keeping our Ego down (not just while meditating but even otherwise while transacting) then Divinity always remains in our heart smiling (connection to divine doesn't get lost). And when we start losing it we can just pray to Him again (this makes our ego go down) and Lord comes up :-) > > 2. Necessity of scripture study: > > Let's take an example. Say, we want to go to the top of Himalaya mountain. This journey has two stages. First stage, going from our door step to foot of Himalaya. Second stage, climbing up from foot of Himalaya to top of mountain. Both stages need different skills, different equipments and the challengs are also different. > > If we compare this to our spiritual journey the first leg of our journey needs all kinds of sadhanas to purify our mind e.g. Serving others, Devotion to Lord, Yoga, Pranayam, meditation etc. This makes our mind pure. We grow in Sattva and learn to keep connected with divinity. Then comes second leg of our journey. This leg is very hard. So, in this leg of our journey, the compassionate divinity that we were connecting to in our first leg of journey, actually manifests in front of us. That is who " Guru " is. This Guru, like a " skilled Sherpa " instructs and guides us how to climb to the top of mountain (Brahman - the absolute) (He doesn't just guide..He literally carries us on His divine shoulders many times :-)). For this second leg of journey Shravan, Manan, Nididhyasan (Study of Scriptures) are most essential. > > To summarize: > > 1. To reach our destination both legs of journey are essential. > > 2. Journey always starts from our door step, so first leg of our journey is essential. Hence, all preliminary sadhanas for purification of mind are needed. We cannot just skip these and directly jump to " inquiry " etc. (just like we can't start our journey from some distant point. If we did that then it will remain in 'planning' phase only ! ) Better to accept what we are, where we are than to pretend something we are not. When mind starts getting pure, inquiry comes easy. > > (By the way, you might be ready for second leg of journey. I am writing this as information only and not to you personally. I am on my first leg. I can still see the door if I turn around :-).) > > 3. We can't reach top of the mountain without second leg of journey so shravan, manan, nididhyasan is also most essential. > > 4. Just like while walking on the path, we study map carefully, we constantly keep track of our whole route, not just first few miles of our journey. So too, even while we are in first leg of our journey we have to know about second leg of our journey also. Hence, along with sadhans for purification of mind; Shravan, Manan, Nididhyasan is also needed. > > These are my 2 cents on your questions. > > Love and Regards, > Padma > > > advaitin , kuntimaddi sadananda > > > In a simple answer - they are all necessary until one understands that the truth is beyond the words, reading, study and even meditation. That understanding is gained by clear understanding the nature of the reality through words, reading, study and meditation. Hence Vedanta says - the proven path for success is shravaNa, manana and nidhidhyaasana - first listening to the scriptures, reflecting on the teaching and contemplating on the truth. There are no other short cuts. > > > --- On Thu, 5/21/09, rachmiel <rachmiel@> wrote: > > > as much as i am attracted to words, ideas, abstractions, analyses ... i see more and more clearly that i often use them as a way to avoid connecting directly to the divine through meditation. not sure why: fear, laziness, familiarity, habit? perhaps it doesn't matter why. > > > > > > my question: to what extent can one dispense with indirect components of learning (words, ideas, analysis, etc.) and go straight for the direct connection? human meditating (realizing) divine. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2009 Report Share Posted May 23, 2009 namaste, padma. :-) > When we talk about " connecting " , we essentially assume " two things " because that is what " connection " is all about ! So we are talking from " relative " standpoint here. Hence, the " Divinity " that we talk about here is " Lord " (Ishwara, Bhagvan). if one looks instead from the absolute standpoint, there is only one thing, and that is brahman, which encompasses jiva and ishwara (and everything else). is that correct? > Just like while walking on the path, we study map carefully, we constantly keep track of our whole route, not just first few miles of our journey. So too, even while we are in first leg of our journey we have to know about second leg of our journey also. does a map of the advaitin journey to realization exist? from the first step onwards? a simple, clear map that even a beginner like me could understand? if so, how can i get a copy? ;-) i look forward to your response. :-) thank you again, padma. happy mission-ing! rachMiel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2009 Report Share Posted May 23, 2009 PranAms Rachmiel-ji The Sage of Kanchi has extensively outlined precisely such a step-by-step map, in his work - Advaita Sadhana- which has been translated and uploaded so kindly and patiently by our dear Prof-VK-ji - a slow, deliberate, and thorough reading of this will be of tremendous benefit to all sincere sadhakas. http://www.advaita.org.uk/discourses/downloads/sadhana.pdf For a synopsis of shravana manana and nidhidhyasana, you can read my perspective at http://poornamadam.blogspot.com/2009/04/shravanammananamnidhidhyasanam.html Hari OM Shri Gurubhyoh namah Shyam --- On Sat, 5/23/09, rachmiel <rachmiel wrote: rachmiel <rachmiel Re: are words, readings, study necessary? advaitin Saturday, May 23, 2009, 12:39 PM namaste, padma. :-) does a map of the advaitin journey to realization exist? from the first step onwards? a simple, clear map that even a beginner like me could understand? if so, how can i get a copy? ;-) i look forward to your response. :-) rachMiel Recent Activity 8 New Members 1 New FilesVisit Your Group Give Back for Good Get inspired by a good cause. Y! Toolbar Get it Free! easy 1-click access to your groups. Start a group in 3 easy steps. Connect with others. .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2009 Report Share Posted May 23, 2009 Dear rachMiel, Namaste. advaitin , " rachmiel " <rachmiel wrote: > if one looks instead from the absolute standpoint, there is only one > thing, and that is brahman, which encompasses jiva and ishwara (and > everything else). is that correct? > There is only ONE. Brahman. Absolute means 'as-is'. Relative means 'seeing it otherwise' e.g. what it appears like or the way we want to see it or the way others see it etc. etc. I am not sure if 'encompasses' is the correct word but then again English is not my first languge. If you say " waking state encompasses everybody's dream states " then probably you can use that word. > does a map of the advaitin journey to realization exist? from the > first step onwards? a simple, clear map that even a beginner like me > could understand? if so, how can i get a copy? ;-) Yes, you can start here - http://www.chinfo.org/e_vedanta/f_evCourse.asp I am doing advanced E-Vedanta course there. I also attend classed in Chinmaya Mission and participate in study groups. Learning systematically and properly is the best approach, rather than collecting bits and pieces here and there out of context from half-baked people like me. Manan (Reflection ) comes after Shravan (Listening(studying)). Not the other way round. One cannnot learn through dicussions. One learns properly first and then discusses to resolve doubts. The only reason I wrote you is because I am a devotee. I love my Lord a lot. I could understand what it feels like when connection to 'divine' gets lost. I wanted to tell you 'there is hope'. That hope is Advaita. I won't be engaging in discussion after this. Please ask somebody like Respected Sada-ji who is well versed in scriptures. Wish you all the best in connecting to Divine. When you succeed in keeping permanent connection with 'divine' please don't forget this simple devotee, drop me a line.. :-) Love and Regards, Padma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2009 Report Share Posted May 24, 2009 thank you again, padma. :-) rachMiel advaitin , " pjoshi99 " <pjoshi99 wrote: > > Dear rachMiel, > Namaste. > > advaitin , " rachmiel " <rachmiel@> wrote: > > if one looks instead from the absolute standpoint, there is only one > > thing, and that is brahman, which encompasses jiva and ishwara (and > > everything else). is that correct? > > > > There is only ONE. Brahman. Absolute means 'as-is'. Relative means 'seeing it otherwise' e.g. what it appears like or the way we want to see it or the way others see it etc. etc. > > I am not sure if 'encompasses' is the correct word but then again English is not my first languge. If you say " waking state encompasses everybody's dream states " then probably you can use that word. > > > does a map of the advaitin journey to realization exist? from the > > first step onwards? a simple, clear map that even a beginner like me > > could understand? if so, how can i get a copy? ;-) > > Yes, you can start here - > http://www.chinfo.org/e_vedanta/f_evCourse.asp > > I am doing advanced E-Vedanta course there. I also attend classed in Chinmaya Mission and participate in study groups. Learning systematically and properly is the best approach, rather than collecting bits and pieces here and there out of context from half-baked people like me. > > Manan (Reflection ) comes after Shravan (Listening(studying)). Not the other way round. One cannnot learn through dicussions. One learns properly first and then discusses to resolve doubts. > > The only reason I wrote you is because I am a devotee. I love my Lord a lot. I could understand what it feels like when connection to 'divine' gets lost. I wanted to tell you 'there is hope'. That hope is Advaita. I won't be engaging in discussion after this. Please ask somebody like Respected Sada-ji who is well versed in scriptures. Wish you all the best in connecting to Divine. When you succeed in keeping permanent connection with 'divine' please don't forget this simple devotee, drop me a line.. :-) > > Love and Regards, > Padma > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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