advaita vedanta and western advaita (was: and buddhism)

[Guest guest]

advaitin , " Sitara " <smitali17 wrote:

>

> Dear Shastriji, dear Nairji

> Pranams

>

> I am very glad that this kind of opening can happen in the list, even if not

all members will agree with it. It is my experience that quite a few of the

Western Satsang teachers and also of the neo-advatins say exactly what is stated

in the Upanishads. Not all but many seem to be authentic. I owe immensily to

Gangaji and Dolano for example. (I mention them because their are many more

besides Tolle worth listening to, if you are interested.)

>

> Dennisji has quoted many of them in his Book of One and always made a point

that he is not necessarily doubting their realization. He doubts their ability

to teach.

>

> As Durgaji pointed out: They are all sort of mystics, singing their truth in a

thousand ways, again and again.

>

> And I would like to add: If you happen to be at the right point with your own

development, by chance you might even get " it " by one of their " songs " . But it

is a remote possibility.

>

> They don't have the methodology to pick someone up from the point of being

immersed in misunderstandings and lead him step by step towards realization. As

Vedanta has.

>

> Also Tolle does not have that. He and others did develop certain methods, but

their use is kind of random. As Dennisji again and again stressed in his books,

there is no teaching going on.

>

> Still, isn't it better that there are thousands of Western people listening to

advaita truths with fascination and awe, than if they didn't? Isn't it a huge

potential?

 

Namaste S,

 

I agree with what you are saying...Tolle who lives locally claimed he became

enlightened after sitting on a park bench unemployed for six months..Now he is

well employed writing books and people paying for expensive tickets to hear him

speak....This activity would indicate to me at least that it is unusual for

enlightened beings.

Tolle is eclectic and touches on Oupensky, Gurdjieff and Indian Vedanta...His

first book was a composite of talks he had given...His main thrust apart from

selling books etc...is to advise on the Ego and living in the Now...He writes in

an everyday style that ordinary non philosophical people, like Oprah can

understand, and that is the reason for his acceptance by many. He writes for

people early on the path but as mentioned he doesn't really teach a method or a

system. So even if people find out the have an ego, what do they do with it?

Also living in the Now isn't really fully explained either.

 

So my personal assessment is that he is regurgitating mostly and writing in

everyday language..This serves a purpose for those that wouldn't ordinarily

follow Vedanta or Buddhism or whatever.

 

I have no objection to him other than his claims to enlightenment, and I have a

question about all the books selling and paid speeches..................Other

than that he is perfect for ordinary people early on the path so to

speak....Cheers Tony.

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

this statement of " Old wine in new bottles " has come up twice now. I have to ask

all of you:

 

What is wrong with new bottles??

 

The other way round: New wine in old bottles might be an attempt to fake.

 

But old wine in new bottles is only a problem if the old wine itself or rather

the old wines owners have an egoic interest in THEIR wine being recognized as

THEIRS.

 

That said: Yes, it is a pity that the immense value of Vedanta is not recognized

in the West (yet?). It is also a loss to those who deny it because they would

gain so much more if they knew about it and went deeper into it as a result.

 

But basically I am all for new bottles, they should just be properly labelled

....

 

Om Shanti

Sitara

[Guest guest]

advaitin , " Sitara " <smitali17 wrote:

 

> What is wrong with new bottles??

>

> The other way round: New wine in old bottles might be an attempt to fake.

>

> But basically I am all for new bottles, they should just be properly labelled

....

 

Namaste Smt. Sitara-ji,

 

At the beginning of chapter 4 of Gita, Lord Krishna says that this teaching,

which He (Lord Krishna) is currently imparting to Arjuna, has been

previously imparted by Himself (Lord Krishna) to beings of the lore (Sun God

and others).

 

Explaining this topic, Swami Dayananda jokes that effectively what Lord

Krishna is saying that, what Arjuna is getting is " not new wine in new

bottle " , it is not even " old wine in new bottle " . It is " old wine in old

bottle, which has been previously tasted " !

 

Let us also remember the gita-dhyaana shloka which refers to Lord Krishna

*just* as a milkman, milking from the Cow of Upanishads, with Arjuna as a

calf and the seeker as the person who tastes the milk.

 

A true Advaitic master, like Lord Krishna, would confirm His own eternality,

the disciples' eternality (as Lord Krishna did earlier in chapter 2) and

also confirm the eternality of the teaching itself. He is repeating what the

seers of Isha Upanishad repeat *twice* in mantras 10 and 13.

 

In short, any master who has not acknowledged the source of his teaching,

has perhaps, not felt the sense of discovery properly. As you have

said, behind it is perhaps an ego driven thinking, that may have caused

the misunderstanding of the discovery as an invention!

 

Swami Prabhavananda, in his introduction to the Upanishads, writes that we

known nothing about the seers who heard the truths of the Upanishads. They

felt the eternality of the truths, and did not care about attaching their

names to them.

 

praNAms to all Advaitic Masters,

Ramakrishna

[Guest guest]

Very well said...Proper labelling is a must  and should be proper warning

messages

..

When the original teachings are available in their pure form why go for

imitations.?

 

Pranams

 

ramesh

 

--- On Sun, 6/7/09, Sitara <smitali17 wrote:

 

 

Sitara <smitali17

advaita vedanta and western advaita (was: and buddhism)

advaitin

Sunday, June 7, 2009, 12:09 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Namaste,

 

this statement of " Old wine in new bottles " has come up twice now. I have to ask

all of you:

 

What is wrong with new bottles??

 

The other way round: New wine in old bottles might be an attempt to fake.

 

But old wine in new bottles is only a problem if the old wine itself or rather

the old wines owners have an egoic interest in THEIR wine being recognized as

THEIRS.

 

That said: Yes, it is a pity that the immense value of Vedanta is not recognized

in the West (yet?). It is also a loss to those who deny it because they would

gain so much more if they knew about it and went deeper into it as a result.

 

But basically I am all for new bottles, they should just be properly labelled

....

 

Om Shanti

Sitara

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Sitara-ji,

 

Thank you very much for a beautifully worded message.

 

I have read Gangaji. I will revisit her and also try to get to know Dolano.

 

I have addressed some of your questions in my reply today to Durgaji. What I

have expressed may not be answers. They are my doubts - doubts of one who has

not yet found his traditinoal guru, for which I don't mind waiting till

eternity.

 

Best regards.

 

Madathil Nair

________________

 

advaitin , " Sitara " <smitali17 wrote:

>

> Dear Shastriji, dear Nairji

> Pranams

>

> I am very glad that this kind of opening can happen in the list, even if not

all members will agree with it. It is my experience that quite a few of the

Western Satsang teachers and also of the neo-advatins say exactly what is stated

in the Upanishads. Not all but many seem to be authentic. I owe immensily to

Gangaji and Dolano for example. (I mention them because their are many more

besides Tolle worth listening to, if you are interested.)

[Guest guest]

Namaste Shri Ramashrishnaji

 

Pranams

 

thank you for the wise reply. I agree in toto. Just in practical terms labels

are sometimes good to have, essentially they serve no purpose.

 

Om Shanti

Sitara

 

 

advaitin , " Ramakrishna Upadrasta " <uramakrishna

wrote:

 

> Namaste Smt. Sitara-ji,

>

> At the beginning of chapter 4 of Gita, Lord Krishna says that this teaching,

> which He (Lord Krishna) is currently imparting to Arjuna, has been

> previously imparted by Himself (Lord Krishna) to beings of the lore (Sun God

> and others).

>

> Explaining this topic, Swami Dayananda jokes that effectively what Lord

> Krishna is saying that, what Arjuna is getting is " not new wine in new

> bottle " , it is not even " old wine in new bottle " . It is " old wine in old

> bottle, which has been previously tasted " !

>

> Let us also remember the gita-dhyaana shloka which refers to Lord Krishna

> *just* as a milkman, milking from the Cow of Upanishads, with Arjuna as a

> calf and the seeker as the person who tastes the milk.

>

> A true Advaitic master, like Lord Krishna, would confirm His own eternality,

> the disciples' eternality (as Lord Krishna did earlier in chapter 2) and

> also confirm the eternality of the teaching itself. He is repeating what the

> seers of Isha Upanishad repeat *twice* in mantras 10 and 13.

>

> In short, any master who has not acknowledged the source of his teaching,

> has perhaps, not felt the sense of discovery properly. As you have

> said, behind it is perhaps an ego driven thinking, that may have caused

> the misunderstanding of the discovery as an invention!

>

> Swami Prabhavananda, in his introduction to the Upanishads, writes that we

> known nothing about the seers who heard the truths of the Upanishads. They

> felt the eternality of the truths, and did not care about attaching their

> names to them.

>

> praNAms to all Advaitic Masters,

> Ramakrishna

>

[Guest guest]

Rameshji,

 

Pranams

 

I do not quite agree. I would rather say: Proper labelling is useful.

 

As to your other remark:

 

If the original teachings in their pure form are not digestable anymore, the

form has to be changed without changing the content. That does not make the

result an imitation. It is the same wine!

 

Om Shanti

Sitara

 

 

advaitin , ramesh chivukula <ramesh_chiv wrote:

>

> Very well said...Proper labelling is a must  and should be proper warning

messages

> .

> When the original teachings are available in their pure form why go for

imitations.?

>  

> Pranams

>  

> ramesh

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Nairji:

 

Hare Krishna!

 

There are so many who, like you have done below,

express this desire for a living, embodied Guru and/

or teacher to manifest in the traditional sense of what

that means. This is a wonderful thing to receive and

celebrate when you feel you have received it. But to

assume that this is the only way to receive it surely

places limits on that which knows no limits...the

gift of Grace which you have also mentioned.

 

And you have been talking about thoughts...perhaps

opening the mind enough to empty it of all those

thoughts and ideas and books and CDs so that

there is room for Grace to enter would not be such

a bad idea :-) Did not Ramana Maharshi tells us...

the Grace is always there? Just where do you think

" there " is? In someone's speech? In a plastic CD?

Written on some page with black ink?

 

I am not saying that any of these are the wrong

direction...there is nothing which is wrong on the

path each of us follows. Still, there is also nothing

wrong with stopping to take a look at the path

to wonder if a stop on the way might be in order.

Stop your mind and open your heart to Bhagavan.

You might find that eternity is right there, waiting

for you.

 

And now, having said that, I am going to go prepare

this morning's post on the Holy Geeta :-)

 

Sending love to you.

 

In His Service,

 

Radhe

====================================================

 

 

I have read Gangaji. I will revisit her and also try to get to know Dolano.

 

I have addressed some of your questions in my reply today to Durgaji. What I

have expressed may not be answers. They are my doubts - doubts of one who

has not yet found his traditinoal guru, for which I don't mind waiting till

eternity.

 

Best regards.

 

Madathil Nair

[Guest guest]

Sitaraji..

 

Thank you for the clarification..The only intent is that the teachings do not

get diluted or distorted to individual's whims.. That is all..

 

Anyway , it is my belief that  HIS GRACE is ever at work .. ever being received

by those who are eager and well prepared..

 

Pranams

 

ramesh

 

 

--- On Sun, 6/7/09, Sitara <smitali17 wrote:

 

 

Sitara <smitali17

Re: advaita vedanta and western advaita (was: and buddhism)

advaitin

Sunday, June 7, 2009, 5:25 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rameshji,

 

Pranams

 

I do not quite agree. I would rather say: Proper labelling is useful.

 

As to your other remark:

 

If the original teachings in their pure form are not digestable anymore, the

form has to be changed without changing the content. That does not make the

result an imitation. It is the same wine!

 

Om Shanti

Sitara

 

advaitin@ s.com, ramesh chivukula <ramesh_chiv@ ...> wrote:

>

> Very well said...Proper labelling is a must  and should be proper warning

messages

> .

> When the original teachings are available in their pure form why go for

imitations.?

>  

> Pranams

>  

> ramesh

>