Thyagena eka amrutatwam

[Guest guest]

Namaste Shyamji,

From your mananam exercise of Tyaga and sanyasa I have some

doubts in the following paragraphs:

( Please have in mind that I am a novice to the whole vedanta manam exercise.

The doubt may be a silly one, but I wish to get them cleared).

 

 

Paras referred:

 

Thus we find the Shruti clearly affirming that the proximate cause to Moksha is

JnAnA ALONGWITH tyaga and sannyasa. And these terms tyaga and sannyasa here IS

meant in the most literal sense of the term - a complete and total renunciation

of worldly life.

Is there some laxity or relaxation of rules in this? Is it possible to maintain

some degree of mundane wordly existence , with a spirit of detachment or

karmayoga, as even one contemplates on the mahavakyas? According to Shankara the

answer is a resounding NO.

Some of his bhashyas where he addresses this -

Chandogya 2,23,1

There are 3 kinds of virtue. First is sacrifice,study and charity, Second is

austerity itself. THird is a brahmacharin living in the house of his teacher -

wholly dedicating himself there for life. All these become attainers of the

virtuous worlds. The man established in Brahman attaines

immortality.(Brahmasamsathoamrtatvameti)

Opponent: Can it not be said that whoever among the persons following the

virtues prescribed for their own stae of life remains established in Brahman he

attains immortality? [in other words, as a grhastha or a householder, by

practicing a life of virtue and right conduct and at the same time established

in the idea of Brahman-oneness, can one not attain immortality?]

Shankara: NO, because knowledge required for performance of rites and duties and

the knowledge needed for the realization of Brahman are opposed to each

other.........because the conviction arising from Knowledge and ignorance are

opposed to each other. This being so, whoever has got rid of the conviction

about differences based on which the injunction about rites and duties come into

effect, he desists from all kinds of rites and duties becasue all causes for

this cease to exist as a result of the conviction of the Oneness arising from

the vedic texts....and he who has ceased from all rites and duties is spoken of

as one established in Brahman and HE MUST BE A MONK because it is impossible for

ANYONE ELSE to be so. For the other has not got his conviction about differences

removed. because of his seeing hearing thinking and knowing differences he

believes I shall get this by doing this. In the case of such a man who is

engaged thus there cannot be any establishment in Brahman for he is possessed of

the ideas arising from his attachment to false transformations whihc have speech

alone as their basis.

.....Because remaining established in Brahman is possible for the monk alone.

And we said he alone remained unmentioned.Therefore the man of Realization alone

who has ceased from rites and duties is meant by the word parivrajakah(monk)

..... And the term parivrajakah is not used conventionally for the phrase one

remaining established in Brahman like the words barley and pig - this has been

rebutted since remaining established in Brahman is possible for him(the monk)

ALONE and NOT FOR ANYONE ELSE.

 

 

My doubt:

1.........

 

After reading the above paras , How are we to understand the Bhaja Govindam

sloka by the same Shankara? Does He talk of the state of the one already

established in Brahman? Sanyasa does not allow Bhoga and sanga.

Is this sloka not refering to a sanyasi (monk) then?

 

Yogarathova Bhogarathova sangarathova sangaviheenaha

yasya brahmani ramathey chithham nandati nandati nandateva

 

My doubt:

2.........

 

What about king janaka?

what about Meera ?

 

Where do I place them? What do I learn from their lives to attain moksha

(amrutatva)?

 

With Gurusmaranam,

sumitha.

[Guest guest]

Pranams Sumitha-ji

***

My doubt:

1. After reading the above paras , How are we to understand the Bhaja Govindam

sloka by the same Shankara? Does He talk of the state of the one already

established in Brahman? Sanyasa does not allow Bhoga and sanga.

Is this sloka not refering to a sanyasi (monk) then?

Yogarathova Bhogarathova sangarathova sangaviheenaha

yasya brahmani ramathey chithham nandati nandati nandateva

***

Bhoga can refer to any inadvertent contact with sense objects - whatever food a

muni consumes as bhiksha, whatever sights his eyes see, he is not affected by

the pair of opposites.

Sanga - again can be sangati with followers, students, devotees, other monks, -

whether such an association comes about or not

....the jnAni's absorption in self-awareness is constant....such is the meaning. 

 

[incidentally, the authorship of the bhaja govindam to Adi Shankara is very

likely an error according to many scholars and Swami Dayananda-ji as well - it

is believed to be written possibly by a much more recent Shankaracharya - not to

take away anything from its beauty and sublime message - it is one of favorite

bhajans.]

 

***

My doubt:

2.........

What about king janaka?

what about Meera ?

Where do I place them? What do I learn from their lives to attain moksha

(amrutatva)?

***

Wit regards to King Janaka it is the " stock " example given for a non-sannyasi

jnani - there are two explanations - a. a rare exception - and in this case it

is a good example of the exception proving the rule. and b. that he already took

to sannyasa ashrama in a prior birth, but due to some obstacle could not attain

jivanmukti and attained the same in this birth while not in sannyasa ashrama.

Perhaps both may be true, perhaps only one - it matters little.

With regards to Meera-bai, there is very little reliable information available,

certainly very little that I am aware of - indisputably she was a ParaBhakta

engrossed in the Supreme love of Her Master Giridhar Gopala. Her lifestory -

based on what is known - very much embodies the fundamental traits of sannyasa -

a devotion to the Lord to the exclusion of everyhting else - home, family,

wealth, freed of -- she was a wandering Saint very much similar to a

" traditional " sannyasi - and an embodiment of the Highest form of bhakti - which

is what we learn from her and her beautiful bhajans.

 

Hari OM

Shri Gurubhyoh namah

Shyam   

 

 

 

--- On Sat, 9/12/09, sumitha_rama <sumitha_rama wrote:

 

 

sumitha_rama <sumitha_rama

Re: Re: Thyagena eka amrutatwam

advaitin

Saturday, September 12, 2009, 11:54 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

Namaste Shyamji,

From your mananam exercise of Tyaga and sanyasa I have some doubts in the

following paragraphs:

 

With Gurusmaranam,

sumitha.

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Incidentally, the authorship of the bhaja govindam to Adi Shankara is very

likely an error according to many scholars and Swami Dayananda-ji as well

- it is believed to be written possibly by a much more recent

Shankaracharya - not to take away anything from its beauty and sublime

message - it is one of favorite bhajans.

praNAms

Hare Krishna

that's very interesting...if you dont mind kindly give more details of the

above. How Sri Dayananda-ji explains the above in more detail. Does

paramArthAnanda also says something on this?? kindly let me know more

details. BTW, Swamy chimayananda-ji himself has written a beautiful

commentary on bhaja gOvindaM without raising voice against authorship.

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar

 

 

[Guest guest]

Wit regards to King Janaka it is the " stock " example given for a

non-sannyasi jnani - there are two explanations - a. a rare exception -

and in this case it is a good example of the exception proving the rule.

and b. that he already took to sannyasa ashrama in a prior birth, but due

to some obstacle could not attain jivanmukti and attained the same in this

birth while not in sannyasa ashrama. Perhaps both may be true, perhaps

only one - it matters little.

 

 

praNAms Sri Shyam prabhuji

Hare Krishna

What about vidhura, dharmavyAdha, yAjnAvalkya?? I dont think 'saNyAsa' as

an 'ashrama dharma' is applicable all the time!! thyAga or saNyAsa could

be interpreted sometime as 'giving up prohibited immoral acts' or

sometimes renouncing the karma-s enjoined for the various fruits

(kAmyakarma thyAga) or giving up the desire for the enjoyment of fruits of

all acts. For example krishna in geeta says kAmyAnAm karmaNAm nyAsaM

saNyAsaM kavayO viduH, sarvakarmaphala tyAgaM, prAhustyAgaM

vichakshaNAH..So, a gruhasthA may also get that 'jnAna' without undergoing

a formal saNyAsa initiation but following the above sAdhana meticulously &

religiously. The nature of mind what is important here rather than

outward dress & appearance..If a gruhastha possessing a mind unattached to

anything if he is self-controlled amidst the turbulations of 'his'

saMsAra, if he is void of all desires even in seven star hotel than he is

good to be called saNyAsi...pravruttena chet lOka saMgrahArthaM nivruttena

chet jeevana mAtrArthaM taM, jnAnAgni dagdha karmANaM...says shankara in

geeta bhAshya. so, a pravrutti jnAni (or a saMsAri) can continue 'acting'

in lOka for the lOka kalyAna whereas a nivrutti mArgi saNyAsi could 'act'

just for surviving...no need to mention here this division in jnAni is for

the convenience of us who are still 'seeing' the 'cheshtA-s' of these

jnAni-s...shankara elsewhere clarifies that these acts are 'mudhaiva

cheshtA mAtra'... So, in this context of 'saNyAsa', the 'karma yOga' can

also be called as 'saNyAsa'. Because the 'state of mind' is what counts

in a formal saNyAsi & a karma yOgi gruhastha.So, gruhasthA-s, atyAshrami-s

and antyaja-s also equally eligible for that saMyak jnAna. etena

gruhasthasya ekatva vijnAne sati pravrAjyaM arthasiddhaM is shankara's own

assurance in chAndOgya shruti bhAshya.

And finally why this justification?? because I am also a gruhastha and

right now donot want to take saNyAsa :-))

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar