Gita Satsangh Chapter 15 Verses 16 & 17

October 4, 2009

Dandavat pranams to all!

Tatah padam tat parimaargitavyam

Yasmin gataa na nivartanti bhooyah;

Tameva chaadyam purusham prapadye

Yatah pravrittih prasritaa puraanee.

Then that goal should be sought after, whither having gone none returns again.

Seek refuge in that Primeval Purusha whence streamed forth the ancient activity

or energy. (BG 15.4)

Gita Satsangh Chapter 15 Verses 16 & 17

To listen to Swami Brahmanananda of the Chinmaya Mission

chanting this Chapter...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HbuMyixulQ & feature=related

To listen to Meena Mahadevan of KailashMusic

chanting this Chapter...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO-zznmflEk & feature=channel

Dwaavimau purushau loke ksharashchaakshara eva cha;

Ksharah sarvaani bhootaani kootastho'kshara uchyate.

16. Two Purushas there are in this world, the perishable and the imperishable.

All beings are the perishable, and the Kutastha is called the imperishable.

Sankara Bhashya

(Swami Gambiranda's Translation and Commentary)

16. There are these two persons in the world-the mutable and the immutable. The

mutable consists of all things; the one existing as Maya is called the

immutable.

There are imau, these; dvau, two-grouped separately; purusau, persons, so called

[Persons-so called only figuratively, since they are the limiting adjuncts of

the supreme Person.]; loke in the world; the ksarah, mutable-one group consists

of the perishable; the other person is the aksarah, immutable, opposite of the

former, the power of God called Maya, which is the seed of the origin of the

person called the mutable. That which is the receptacle of the impressions of

desires, actions, etc. of countless transmigrating creatures is called the

immutable person.

Who are those persons? The Lord Himself gives the answer: Ksarah, the mutable;

consists of sarvani, all; bhutani, things, i.e. the totality of all mutable

things. Kutasthah is the one existing as Maya: Kuta means a heap; kutasthah, is

that which exists like a heap. Or, kuta is maya, deception, falsehood,

crookedness, which are synonymous; that which exists in the diverse forms of

maya etc. is the kutasthah. It is ucyate, called; the aksarah, immutable,

because, owing to the countless seeds of worldly existence, it does not perish.

Swami Chinmayananda's Translation and Commentary

16. Two 'PURUSHAS' are there in this world, the Perishable and the Imperishable.

All beings are the Perishable and the 'KOOTASTHAH' is called the Imperishable.

Earlier, in Chapter XIII, we had an exhaustive discussion of the field-of-Matter

and the Knower-of-the field. The discussion we had so far in this chapter must

prove that the Sun, the warmth in the atmosphere, the earth, its potentialities,

the plant-kingdom, and man and his capacities --- all of them together

constituting the field-of-Matter, are nothing other than the Supreme Itself.

When the Infinite Consciousness becomes the light and heat of the Sun, the

fertility of the earth, the essence in the plant, the Consciousness in the

heart, the faculties of knowing and remembering, etc., they are all different

forms of Consciousness alone. Thus, the fact that the field-of-Matter is nothing

other than the Spirit Itself was already demonstrated. The only difference is

that the Spirit, when It has assumed the form of Matter, looks as though It is

subject to change and destruction. Thus the " realm of Matter " is indicated in

this stanza as the Perishable (Kshara) Purusha.

In the relative field of experience, when we talk with reference to the inert

and perishable world of Matter, the Spirit is indicated as the Conscious

Principle, which is Imperishable. With reference to one's wife alone is one

called a husband; when I have a son I will become a father. Similarly, with

reference to the perishable and the changing Matter-envelopments, the

Consciousness is indicated as the Imperishable and the Changeless. The body

changes; from childhood to youth, from youth to old age; the mind changes in its

quality of feelings and emotions; the intellect expressing differently with each

added knowledge and experience is ever in a state of change. But one is

constantly AWARE OF all these changes. This Consciousness which has been

constantly recognising and illumining all changes, at all levels, all through

the individual's life, is necessarily changeless. This Conscious Principle is

called Akshara only with reference to and as a contrast with the Perishable, the

(Kshara).

This Immutable and Imperishable principle of Life is the Self, common in all

living creatures at all times. That this Self, in the midst of change remains

changeless and that all changes can take place only in contact with it are both

indicated by the metaphor suggested by the term used here, Kootashah.

DISTINCT FROM THESE TWO --- THE PERISHABLE AND THE IMPERISHABLE --- UNTAINTED BY

THE IMPERFECTIONS OF THESE TWO RELATIVE CONDITIONS, IS THE HIGHEST SPIRIT:

Uttamah purushastwanyah paramaatmetyudaahritah;

Yo lokatrayamaavishya bibhartyavyaya ishwarah.

17. But distinct is the Supreme Purusha called the highest Self, the

indestructible Lord who, pervading the three worlds, sustains them.

Sankara Bhashya

(Swami Gambiranda's Translation and Commentary)

17. But different is the supreme Person who is spoken of as the transcendental

Self, who, permeating the three worlds, upholds (them), and is the imperishable

God.

Tu, but; anyah, different, entirely contrary in characteristics from these; is

the uttamah, supreme, most excellent; purusah, Person, who is different in

characteristics from these-the mutable and the immutable-, untouched by the

mutable and the immutable limiting adjuncts, and is by nature eternal, pure,

conscious and free; udahrtah, spoken of in the Upanisads; iti, as; the

paramatma, supreme Self; He is paramah, supreme, as compared with the selves

like body etc. created by ignorance, and is the atma, Self, the inmost

Consciousness of all beings. Hence He is the supreme Self. He Himself is being

specially described: yah, who, by dint of His own active power inhering in the

energy that is Maya; [Caitanya, consciousness, itself is the bala (energy); the

sakti (active power) therein is Maya. Through that He upholds.] avisya,

permeating; loka-trayam, the three worlds-called Bhuh (Earth), Bhuvah,

(Intermediate Space) and Svah (Heaven); bibharti, upholds (them) by merely being

present in His own nature. (And He) is the avyayah, imperishable; isvarah, God,

the Omniscient One called Narayana, who is the Lord by nature.

This name-the supreme Person-of God as described is well known. Showing that

the name is apt by virtue of its etymological significance, the Lord reveals

Himself saying, 'I am the unsurpassable God':

Swami Chinmayananda's Translation and Commentary

17. But distinct is the Supreme PURUSHA called the Highest Self, the

Indestructible Lord, who, pervading the three worlds (waking, dream and

deep-sleep) , sustains them.

But distinct from all these is the Highest Spirit spoken of as the Supreme Self.

With reference to my own children alone am I really a father. With reference to

my duty or status I may have yet another name. Similarly, the Imperishable is a

status and a dignity gained by the Spirit only with reference to the

field-of-the-perishables around and about It, through which It manifests as the

various expressions of Life. When my children have died, or I am dismissed from

my job, I am no more a father, nor can I any more claim my erstwhile official

dignity. But that does not mean that I am, in the absence of children or work,

an absolute zero, a total non-entity! No. I will exist as " the son of my

father, " or in my individual capacity, though devoid of all my special status

and dignity born out of my relationship with my profession, or with my children.

When the perishable (Kshara) is transcended, what remains is not Imperishable

(Akshara) but that which played as the 'Perishable-Purusha' as well as the

'Imperishable-Purusha.' This Pure Spirit (Purusha) is spoken of as the Supreme

Self, who 'PERVADES AND SUSTAINS THE THREE WORLDS': " World " in Sanskrit means

'realm of experience.' The three realms of experiences in which we eke out our

life's returns are the states of waking, dream, and deep-sleep. The same Self is

the illuminator of the experiences in all the above three

states-of-Consciousness.

There are not three different types of Purushas; according to the limitations

and conditions around It, the Spirit, appears different in Its manifestations. A

pot is in a room; now the 'pot-space' is a lesser part of the 'room-space,' and

the room-space is only a negligible portion of the 'total-space.' At the same

time 'pot-space' minus the pot, if understood as " space, " is the same space as

the infinite-space. Now, in the above example, pot-space and room-space are

something other than the outer-space, in as much as, conditioned as they are,

they have gathered unto themselves certain limitations, but the unconditioned

'pot-space' and the 'room-space' are nothing but the infinite-space; break the

pot, pull down the walls, the space that was the 'pot-space' and the space that

was the 'room-space' have both become one with the Infinite-space!

The Infinite Consciousness is Itself the perishable-field in another form, and

as the Knower-of-the-Field, the same Consciousness is the Imperishable Reality

in the perishable conditionings, But when these conditionings are transcended,

the same Self is experienced as the Supreme Self --- Paramatman.

SHOWING THE ETYMOLOGY OF THE VERY TERM, PURUSHOTTAMA, THE LORD SHOWS HOW HE IS

REALLY THE SUPREME:

to be continued...

Hare Krishna!!!

October 10, 2009

Namaste Satsanghis:

For quite sometime, no one seems to participate in the Gita Satsangh. Those who

read the postings of Satsangh by Radheji are requested again to write how the

Satsangh benefits you in conducting your life. Also you can contribute with your

insights or insights that you have read from other commentaries. When we write

using our words and thoughts, we get the benefit of better understanding of what

we heard and read and that is the secret of a Satsangh. Our Paramguru

Sankaracharya says in Bhajagovindham the following with respect to Satsangh:

satsaN^gatve nissN^gatvaM nissaN^gatve nirmohatvam.h .

nirmohatve nishchalatattvaM nishchalatattve jiivanmuktiH – Verse 9

From the company of good and holy people, one develops a state of

non-attachment; from this comes freedom from delusion; this leads to a state of

tranquility of mind, which enables one to attain freedom.

Sri Sankara here gives us a ladder to climb up to the level of salvation. The

first step is satsangha: the company of holy people, saints, good men and women.

This is the basis of all further steps.

It is a well-known fact that good character is developed from the company of

good people and hence the sadhakas (seekers) desirous of God realization should

attempt to keep only the company of really

good people. Satsangha helps them know which is real and which is transitory;

which leads to God and which leads away. Equipped thus with true knowledge, the

aspirant slowly develops non-attachment to

things of the world.

Interestingly the following verses (16 and 17) focus on the subject matter of

what is real and what is transitory. I have provided some additional

explanations to get clarifications of my understanding.

For the purpose of discussions the following questions will be our focus:

Apara and Para Prakriti (Contribute your insights)

Ksara and Aksara (Distinguish these two important concepts)

Ksetra and Ksetrajna (Are they different? If so when and how the differences

melts away?)

Bhutani and Sarvani (who is bhutani and who is the Sarvani?)

Who is the Uttamapursha?

Though the commentaries presented by Swami Chinmayanandaji and Swami

Gambiranandaji provide the explanations we can all benefited more by our own

explanations with examples.

Dwaavimau purushau loke ksharashchaakshara eva cha;

Ksharah sarvaani bhootaani kootastho'kshara uchyate.

16. Two Purushas there are in this world, the perishable and the imperishable.

All beings are the perishable, and the Kutastha is called the imperishable.

The use of the two adjectives `Dvau' and `Imau' with `Purusau' is intended to

convey that the two categories mentioned in this verse under the names of

`Ksara' and `Aksara' form part of the three categories that are being discussed

in the present chapter. And the word `Purusau' refers to no other than the two

categories discussed under the names of the `Apara and `Para' Prakrtis in

Chapter 7 (verses 4-5), under the names of `Adhibhuta' and `Adhyatma' in Chapter

8 (verses 4 and 3), under the names of `Ksetra' and `Ksetrajna' in Chapter 13

(verse 1) and under the names of Asvattha' and `Jiva' in this (15) chapter. By

speaking of the one as `Ksara' and the other as `Aksara' the Lord seeks to

convey that the two are entirely different from each other (at the vyavaharika

level of reality).

The word `Bhutani, in this verse denotes the three bodies of a Jiva, viz., the

physical, the astral and the causal. It is these three types of bodies that have

been referred to under the collective name of `Ksetra' in the opening verse of

Chapter 13 and their constituent elements enumerated in verse 5 of the same

chapter. The word `Bhutani', qualified by the adjective `Sarvani' would come to

mean the entire world of matter. This world of matter is perishable and

transient. This is what is borne out by such statements as `All these bodies

have been spoken of as perishable' (2.l8) and `All perishable objects are

Adhibhuta' (8.4). The word `Kutastha' denotes the Self dwelling in all bodies.

The Self continues to be the same under all circumstances, it never changes;

hence it is termed as `Kutastha' or immutable. And it is beyond decay,

destruction or extinction; hence it is imperishable.

Essentially, Lord Krishna wants us to understand the distinction between

transient and transcendent. The discriminating intellect should pay attention to

distinguish between temporary (perishable) and permanent (imperishable).

Uttamah purushastwanyah paramaatmetyudaahritah;

Yo lokatrayamaavishya bibhartyavyaya ishwarah.

17. But distinct is the Supreme Purusha called the highest Self, the

indestructible Lord who, pervading the three worlds, sustains them.

The `Uttama Purusa' mentioned in this verse is none other than the Parabrahman

(Supreme Person) or God, who is eternal, pure, enlightened free, all-powerful,

supremely compassionate and full of virtues. The use of the particle `Tu' and

the adjective `Anyah' is intended to distinguish God from the `Ksara' and

`Aksara' Purusas mentioned in the preceding verse (16). The intention is to show

that the Supreme Person is distinct from and far superior to both. The

implication is simple but powerful – Our understanding of the Parabrahman at the

Paramarthika level is not how we perceive the Brahman through pairs of opposites

(which do not exist!) at the vyavaharika level. The words `Yo lokatrayam avisya

bibharti' constitute a definition of the Supreme Person or Purusottama. In other

words, the Supreme Person or Purusottama is no other than the all-supporting and

all-pervading God who, having entered the whole universe, upholds the two

categories `Ksara' and `Aksara' referred to under the common name of `Purusa',

and maintains all living beings. Our understanding of the " Absolute " at the

" relative level " differs from our experience at the Absolute level.

I am hoping to see more discussions in Gita Satsangh.

With my warm regards,

Ram Chandran

advaitin , " Radhe " <shaantihwrote

October 10, 2009

Namaste,

Many thanks for this excellent series. Gita satsangh is something very close to

my heart and I don't think you should feel nobody is participating. I am sure

there are members like me who are interested in the posts. Sometimes the sheer

force of intellect applied to some of the discussions in this forum can get

quite intimidating.

-----------------------

On the subject of Uttamma Purusha and the idea that the Supreme Person is

distinct from and far superior to both Ksara and Aksara- Can we try to

understand this in terms of the analogy of the potter? (or some other simple

analogy) - Bhagwan is the instrumental, material, and auxillary cause. So He is

the potter, the clay, and the wheel. When it is said that the Supreme Person is

" distinct from and superior to " , how would that fit in the world of the potter?

Is the Supreme Person a micro-manager? or it is only 'Nature' as set forth by

Him that operates at a micro-level and He (It) does not concern Himself (Itself)

with the daily running of this universe? Then what is His role? When

'mana-naatha is jagannaatha' and 'mad-aatma is sarvabhutaatma' how do we

reconcile the idea that the Uttama Purusha is over and above " mad-aatma " ?

I hope these questions are within the scope of the current thread.

Warm regards,

Veena.

-------------------

Aum Namo Narayanaya.

--- On Sat, 10/10/09, Ram <ramvchandran wrote:

Ram <ramvchandran

Re: Gita Satsangh Chapter 15 Verses 16 & 17

advaitin

Saturday, October 10, 2009, 8:06 AM

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