Guest guest Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 Durga-ji wrote: Everything in the dream comes from me, is sustained by me, and resolves into me. And yet all the while nothing has actually happened to me. Namaste Durga-ji, This appears to be in accord with the main thrust of the section of Brh.Up. IV.iii.10 seq. which deals with the nature of the dream state vis-a-vis the waking. What Swami is saying is fine and useful as an analogy as long as we do not take the misstep of viewing the dream state as free standing. Drawing Cartesian type implications are not according to the understanding of the Upanishad. In summation Shankara writes: " Thus the idea that has been established by the last three paragraphs is that this self is itself the light and distinct from the body and the organs and their stimulating causes, desire and work, on account of its non-attachment - 'For this infinite being is unattached'. How do we know that the self is unattached ? Because it moves by turn from the waking to the dream state, from this to the state of profound sleep, from that again to the dream state, and so on, which proves that it is distinct from the three states. " Comm. on IV.iii.15: " If he actually did anything in dream, he would be bound by it; and it would pursue him even after he woke up. " Therefore the activity in the dream is not the same as the activity which gives the activity its meaning. Even in the dream this is known because we simply do not place the same value on dream activity as we would on the ostensibly similar activity of the waking state. We can only speak of being mislead if we can be lead in the first instance. It is clear that we cannot. Best Wishes, Michael. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 advaitin , " durgaji108 " <durgaji108 wrote: > > Namaste Respected Members, > > > So that is the way I have heard the dream > primarily used in teaching. As a device > to get us to understand and appreciate > what the jagat is, what Ishwara is. > > Pranams, > Durga Namaste Durgaji, IMHO Jagrat and Ishwara are not separate but one consciousness with prana that's all....Praneaswara NIZ would call it. Ishwara, god, krisna etc are all names for the consciousness that is ourselves. So there is no real difference between dream svapna and jagrat state...The ego doesn't control anything or do anything all is consciousness, even if this Saguna is ultimately unreal....Tony. List Moderators's Note: Inspite of our repeated requests, you continue to include the entire message of the previous poster. Please follow the guidelines and keep only the necessary part with your reply as it is done here. Also, you continue to repeatedly make abstract statements without detailed explanations with references. Please take more time to explain clearly how your opinion differs from the other posters' views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 advaitin , " aoclery " <aoclery wrote: > > advaitin , " durgaji108 " <durgaji108@> wrote: > > > > Namaste Respected Members, > > > > > > So that is the way I have heard the dream > > primarily used in teaching. As a device > > to get us to understand and appreciate > > what the jagat is, what Ishwara is. > > > > Pranams, > > Durga > > Namaste Durgaji, > > IMHO Jagrat and Ishwara are not separate but one consciousness with prana that's all....Praneaswara NIZ would call it. Ishwara, god, krisna etc are all names for the consciousness that is ourselves. So there is no real difference between dream svapna and jagrat state...The ego doesn't control anything or do anything all is consciousness, even if this Saguna is ultimately unreal....Tony. > > List Moderators's Note: Inspite of our repeated requests, you continue to include the entire message of the previous poster. Please follow the guidelines and keep only the necessary part with your reply as it is done here. Also, you continue to repeatedly make abstract statements without detailed explanations with references. Please take more time to explain clearly how your opinion differs from the other posters' views. > Namaste. Quotes with page numbers from I am that....Nisargadatta Maharaj. The dreams are not equal, but the dreamer is one. I am the insect, I am the poet - in dream. But in reality I am neither. I am beyond all dreams. I am the light in which all dreams appear and disappear. I am both inside and outside the dream. Just as a man having a headache knows the ache and also knows that he is not the ache, so do I know the dream, myself dreaming and myself not dreaming - all at the same time. I am what I am before, during and after the dream. But what I see in dream, I am not. (117) Ultimately nothing is mine or yours, everything is ours. Just be one with yourself and you will be one with all, at home in the entire universe. (462) Even to talk of re-uniting the person with the self is not right, because there is no person, only a mental picture given a false reality by conviction. Nothing was divided and there is nothing to unite. (143) There is no " my self " and " his self " . There is the Self, the only Self of all. Misled by the diversity of names and shapes, minds and bodies, you imagine multiple selves. We both are the self. (137) The one witness reflects itself in the countless bodies as " I am " . As long as the bodies, however subtle, last, the " I am " appears as many. Beyond the body there is only the One. (157) I am one, but appear as many. (529) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 advaitin , " aoclery " <aoclery wrote: > > > > advaitin , " aoclery " <aoclery@> wrote: > > > > advaitin , " durgaji108 " <durgaji108@> wrote: > > > > > > Namaste Respected Members, > > > > > > > > > So that is the way I have heard the dream > > > primarily used in teaching. As a device > > > to get us to understand and appreciate > > > what the jagat is, what Ishwara is. > > > > > > Pranams, > > > Durga > > seeing consciousness as it is By looking at the mirror every day, you begin to know your own face, and you say: " That is me. " Now, can you in the same way know what you are by watching yourself? Can you watch your gestures, the way you walk, the way you talk, the way you behave, whether you are hard, cruel, rough, patient? Then you begin to know yourself. You know yourself by watching yourself in the mirror of what you are doing, what you are thinking, what you are feeling. That is the mirror—the feeling, the doing, the thinking. And in that mirror you begin to watch yourself. The mirror says this is the fact; but you do not like the fact. So you want to alter it. thank you sekhar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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