Guest guest Posted October 25, 2009 Report Share Posted October 25, 2009 Dandavat pranams to all! STUDY OF THE SCRIPTURES (Swaadhyaaya) --- Traditionally, this term indicates regular study of the scriptures. Study of scriptural literature daily, in measured quantities, will provide the necessary inspiration to live the divine life in our day-to-day existence. But, scriptural study is indicated here [ BG 16.1] by a very significant term, which in Sanskrit suggests that the study of the scriptures should not be merely an intellectual appreciation, but as the student reads the text-books, he must be able, simultaneously, to observe, analyse and realise the truth of what he is studying within his own life. Regular studies, coupled with regular practice (Yajna), will give us the courage to live in self-control of the sense-organs, which in its turn will supply us with steadiness in meditation for realising the Highest. ~ Swami Chinmayananda To listen to Swami Brahmanananda of the Chinmaya Mission chanting this Chapter... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B50lu0Oilak & feature=related Summary of Sixteenth Discourse (by Swami Sivananda) This discourse is important and very instructive to all persons who wish to attain happiness, prosperity and blessedness, and to seekers in particular, who wish to attain success in their spiritual life. Lord Krishna brings out quite clearly and unmistakably here the intimate connection between ethics and spirituality, between a life of virtue and God-realisation and liberation. Listing two sets of qualities of opposite kinds, the Lord classifies them as divine and demoniacal (undivine), and urges us to eradicate the latter and cultivate the divine qualities. What kind of nature should one develop? What conduct must one follow? What way should one live and act if one must attain God and obtain divine bliss? These questions are answered with perfect clarity and very definitely. The pure divine qualities are conducive to peace and liberation and the undivine qualities lead to bondage. Purity, good conduct and truth are indispensable to spiritual progress and even to an honourable life here. Devoid of purity, good conduct and truth, and having no faith in God or a higher Reality beyond this visible world, man degenerates into a two-legged beast of ugly character and cruel actions, and sinks into darkness. Such a person becomes his own enemy and the destroyer of the happiness of others as well as his own. Caught in countless desires and cravings, a slave of sensual enjoyments and beset by a thousand cares, his life ultimately ends in misery and degradation. Haughtiness, arrogance and egoism lead to this dire fate. Therefore, a wise person, desiring success, must eradicate vice and cultivate virtue. In this world three gates lead to hell-the gates of passion, anger and greed. Released from these three qualities one can succeed in attaining salvation and reaching the highest goal, namely God. Thus the sacred scriptures teach wisely the right path of pure, virtuous living. One should therefore follow the injunctions of the sacred scriptures that wish his welfare and be guided in his actions by their noble teachings. --------- Chapter 16 The Yoga of the Division Between the Divine and the Demoniacal Sri Bhagavaan Uvaacha: Abhayam sattwasamshuddhih jnaanayogavyavasthitih; Daanam damashcha yajnashcha swaadhyaayastapa aarjavam. The Blessed Lord said: 1. Fearlessness, purity of heart, steadfastness in Yoga and knowledge, alms-giving, control of the senses, sacrifice, study of scriptures, austerity and straightforwardness, Sankara Bhashya (Swami Gambiranda's Translation and Commentary) The divine, fiendish and demoniacal natures of creatures were referred to in the ninth chapter (12, 13). In order to present them elaborately, the chapter opening with, 'Fearlessness, purity of the mind,' etc. is begun. Among them, the divine nature leads to Liberation from worldly existence, while the fiendish and demoniacal lead to bondage. Hence, the divine nature is being presented so that it may be accepted, and the other two rejected. The Blessed Lord said: 1. Fearlessness, purity of mind, persistence in knowledge and yoga, charity and control of the external organs, sacrifice, (scriptural) study, austerity and recititude; Abhayam, fearlessness; sattva-samsuddhih, purtiy of the mind (sattva), mentally avoiding fraud, trickery, falsehood, etc. in dealings, i.e., honest behaviour; jnana-yoga-vyavasthitih, persistence in knowledge and yoga-jnana means knowledge of such subjects as the Self, learnt from scriptures and teachers; yoga means making those things that have been learnt matters of one's own personal experience through concentration by means of withdrawl of the organs etc.; persistence, steadfastness, in those two, knowledge and yoga;-this [This-refers to all the three from 'fearlessness' to 'persistence in knowledge and yoga'.] is the principal divine characteristic which is sattvika (born of the sattva quality). That nature which may occur in persons competent in their respective spheres, [Persons treading the path of Jnana-yoga or Karma-yoga have sattvika qualities. Some of the qualities mentioned in the first three verses occur only in the former, whereas the others are found in both or only in the latter.-Tr.]-that is said to be their sattvika attribute. Danam, charity, distribution of food etc. according to one's ability; and damah, control of the external organs-the control of the internal organ, santih, will be referred to later; yajnah, sacrifices-Agnihotra etc. sanctioned by the Vedas, and sacrifices in honour of gods and others [Others: Those in honour of the manes, humans and other beings. Brahma-yajna, the fifth sacrifice, is referred to separately by svadhyaya.] sanctioned by the Smrtis: svadhyayah, study of the Rg-veda etc. for unseen results; tapah, austerity, those concerning the body, etc., which will be stated (17.14-16); arjavam, rectitude, straigthforwardness at all times-. Swami Chinmayananda's Translation and Commentary The Blessed Lord said: 1. Fearlessness, purity of heart, steadfastness in the YOGA -of-Knowledge, alms-giving, control of the senses, sacrifice, study of the SHASTRAS, and straightforwardness . . . As we read the opening stanza we are reminded on the twenty VALUES of life, that were described earlier by Lord Krishna in His Divine discourse (XIII --- 8 to 12). Herein we find an almost exhaustive list of the noble TRAITS in a cultured man living the spiritual way-of-life; a life wherein he accepts and lives those twenty VALUES of life, while meeting the work-a-day world. And in the enumeration of these qualities, FEARLESSNESS (Abhayam) comes first. Fear is generated in one, only when one is in a field which is clouded by 'ignorance.' Fear is the expression of Avidya. Where there is 'Knowledge' there is fearlessness. By placing this quality of fearlessness at the head of the list, with the unsung music of sheer suggestiveness, the divine Acharya is indicating that true ethical perfection in one is directly proportional to the spiritual evolution attained by the individual. PURITY OF HEART --- No amount of external discipline can supply the student the positive dynamism that is the very core in all moral living. The Geeta preaches a dynamic religion, militant both in theory and practice. The Divine Charioteer is not satisfied by a tame generation of passive goodness. He wants the members of the perfect Hindu society not only to live among themselves the highest values of life, but also to burst forth with the positive glow of righteousness and bathe the entire generation of men in the light of truth and virtue --- virtue that implies honesty of intentions and purity of motives. STEADFASTNESS IN THE YOGA-OF-KNOWLEDGE --- This ethical purity at the level of the heart cannot be brought about when the human mind is turned outward to the flesh. Only when the mind is constantly in unison with the Infinite Song of the Soul, can it discover in itself the necessary courage to renounce its low appetites, clinging attachments and the consequent foul motives GURGLING from within itself. Devotion of Knowledge (Jnana-Yoga) is thus the positive way to persuade the mind to leave all its low temptations. When a child is playing with a delicate glass curio, to save the precious object, the parents generally offer it a piece of chocolate, and the little child, anxious to get at the chocolate, drops the precious thing down. Similarly, a mind that is awakened to the serener joys of the Self will, naturally, never hang on to sensuous objects and their fleeting joys. ALMS-GIVING (CHARITY), CONTROL OF THE SENSES AND SACRIFICE --- These three are now the techniques by which an individual successfully tunes up his inner instruments of knowledge in order to discover the required amount of " steady devotion to Knowledge. " Charity must come from one's sense of abundance. Charity springs only from a sense of oneness in us --- oneness between the giver and the recipient. Unless one is able to identify oneself with others, one will not feel this noble urge to share all that one has with others who do not have it. Thus Daana is born out of a capacity to restrain one's instincts of acquisition and aggrandisement, and to replace them with the spirit of sacrifice, and it consists in sharing with others the objects of the world that one possesses. If charity (daana) develops in one the capacity to detach oneself from the wealth that one possesses and share it with others who are poorer, then we can say that control of the sense-organs (dama) is the application of the same spirit of sacrifice in one's personal life. To give a complete licence for indulgence to the sense-organs is to waste, unproductively, the total human vitality. To economise in the expenditure of energy through the sense organs in the fields of sense-objects is to discover an extra amount of untapped energy. This energy can be made use of as the motive power behind the mind and intellect that is set on a flight to the higher realms of meditation. To keep the mind turned up to the Self, a subtle energy is called forth, and it will be discovered within ourselves when we control our sense excesses. Without dama and daana the pilgrimage to Truth is merely a dream. In the Vedic period, SACRIFICE (Yajna) was the day-to-day devotional ritualism that the average man of spiritual seeking diligently practised. Without this regular prayer-cum-puja --- which is the substitute for Yajna available for us --- control of the sense-organs will be impossible, and without this control, the spirit of charity cannot come. In the absence of both daana and dama, spiritual experience of the Self, recognition of the Divine within us, is impossible. It is interesting to note that each subsequent term in this list is logically connected with the one indicated immediately before. STUDY OF THE SCRIPTURES (Swaadhyaaya) --- Traditionally, this term indicates regular study of the scriptures. Study of scriptural literature daily, in measured quantities, will provide the necessary inspiration to live the divine life in our day-to-day existence. But, scriptural study is indicated here by a very significant term, which in Sanskrit suggests that the study of the scriptures should not be merely an intellectual appreciation, but as the student reads the text-books, he must be able, simultaneously, to observe, analyse and realise the truth of what he is studying within his own life. Regular studies, coupled with regular practice (Yajna), will give us the courage to live in self-control of the sense-organs, which in its turn will supply us with steadiness in meditation for realising the Highest. ASCETICISM (Tapas) --- All conscious self-denials at the body level, whereby an individual reduces his indulgences in the world outside, gains more and more energy within himself, and applies the new-found energy for the purpose of self-development, are called Tapas. UPRIGHTNESS (Arjavam) --- Crookedness in thought, emotion and general conduct has a self-destructive influence upon the personality. Actions belying one's own true intentions and motives, convictions and aspirations, realisation and discrimination will result in the crookedness of one's personality. He who is indulging in this way-of-life will thereby develop in himself a split personality and will soon lose the glow of efficiency and be impoverished in the powers of personal grit. In short, in this very opening stanza of the chapter, while enumerating the qualities of a " Divinely good " man, we find a definite scientific connection among them. Ethical values and moral beauties described in Hinduism are not arbitrary declarations of an imaginative Saint or a melancholy prophet. They are built on the rocky foundations of reason and experience. Sincerely pursued and consciously lived, they contribute to a better expression of the diviner possibilities in man which generally lie dormant. Ethics in India are not, by themselves, a passport to heaven, but are a preparation for a fuller unfoldment of the divine contents in the bosom of man. MOREOVER, HERE ARE LISTED THE MENTAL CONTENTS OF THE GODLY: Ahimsaa satyamakrodhas tyaagah shaantirapaishunam; Dayaa bhooteshvaloluptwam maardavam hreerachaapalam. 2. Harmlessness, truth, absence of anger, renunciation, peacefulness, absence of crookedness, compassion towards beings, uncovetousness, gentleness, modesty, absence of fickleness, Sankara Bhashya (Swami Gambiranda's Translation and Commentary) 2. non-injury, truthfulness, absence of anger, renunciation, control of the internal organ, absence of vilification, kindness to creatures, non-covetousness, gentleness, modesty, freedom from restlessness; Ahimsa, non-injury, abstaining from giving pain to creatures; satyam, truthfulness, speaking of things as they are, without unpleasantness and prevarication; akrodhah, absence of anger, control of anger that might result when offened or assulatd by others; tyagah, renunciation, monasticism-for, charity has been mentioned earlier; santih, control of the internal organ; apaisunam, absence of vilification-paisunam means backbiting; its absence is apaisunam; daya, kindness; bhutesu, to creatures in distress; aloluptvam, non-conveteousness, absence of excitement of the organs in the presence of objects; mardavam, gentleness, absence of hard-heartedness; hrih, modesty;; acapalam, freedom from restlessness, absence of unnecessary use of organs such as speech, hands and feet-. Swami Chinmayananda's Translation and Commentary 2. Harmlessness, truth, absence of anger, renunciation, peacefulness, absence of crookedness, compassion to beings, non-covetousness, gentleness, modesty, absence of fickle-ness . . . Continuing, Lord Krishna enumerates the mental contents of the godly type of men. HARMLESSNESS (Ahimsa) --- It does not consist so much in not causing bodily injury to beings in the physical world, as in not harming any living creature in the world around from the realm of thought. Physical ahimsa is simply impossible. To continue living, some kind of physical harm or the other has to be brought about; it is unavoidable. But even while bringing about unavoidable disturbances around ourselves, if our motives are pure and clean, the harm so wrought is not regarded as causing injury. TRUTH (Satyam) --- We have already discussed this virtue while explaining the last term in the previous stanza " uprightness. " AN EVEN TEMPER (absence of anger --- Akrodha) --- Sometimes it is rendered as 'angerless-ness' which is not very happy. A better rendering would be the capacity to check, at the right time, waves of anger as they mount up in our bosom, so that we do not manifest anger in our actions. It will be almost unnatural to expect the mind to become incapable of anger. But no emotion should be allowed to overwhelm us to such a degree as to render us almost impotent. This anger arises out of an insufferable impatience with others. In short, Akrodha does not mean 'without anger' but only 'keeping, as far as possible, an even temper.' SPIRIT OF RENUNCIATION (Tyaga) this stanza also we find, as we noticed in the previous stanza, that there is a sequential order strictly followed in the development of thought from term to term. If without respect to Truth, we cannot live in the spirit of ahimsa, so also without the spirit of renunciation an even temper is but a vain hope. PEACEFULNESS (Quietude --- Shanti) --- If a seeker is capable of living, conscious of Truth harming none, keeping an even temper, in a spirit of renunciation, inspite of all disturbing environments and happenings around, then he is the one who shall come to experience peace and quietude in himself. Even in the midst of a stormy life and outrageous circumstances, such an individual can successfully keep his inward balance and intellectual poise. ABSENCE OF CROOKEDNESS (Unmalicious tongue --- Apaishunam) --- The ugliness or beauty of the tongue is ordered by the personality behind it. A shattered entity will seek self-gratification in malicious scandal-mongering, and the soft, fleshy tongue can often become more devastating than the most destructive missile. A seeker who is trying to reach a fuller and more exhaustive self-expression should develop such an inward harmony that his speech should echo the fragrance of his soul. A speech with softness of tone, clarity of expression, honesty of conviction, power of bringing a clear picture in the listener's mind with no veiled meaning, overflowing with sincerity, devotion and love, becomes the very quality of the autobiography of the speaker's personality. To develop, therefore, a habit of such speech would be unconsciously training many aspects in ourselves which are all necessary for the perfect disciplining of the inner equipments. COMPASSION (TENDERNESS) TOWARDS BEINGS the society in general, it is not reasonable for a seeker to expect that all will keep up to the ideal that he himself entertains. There will be imperfections around. But to recognise, in and through those imperfections, the Infinite beauty of life expressed, is the secret of enduring tenderness in all Saints and Sages. Love alone can discover an infinite amount of tenderness in us. Unless we train ourselves to see the beauty of life pulsating through even wretched hearts and ugly characters, we will fail to bring forth tenderness to sweeten life within and without. NON-CONVETOUSNESS (Aloluptvam) the subjective life, to live " without covetousness " means controlling our sense-organs from extreme indulgence in sense-enjoyments. An average man has an endless thirst and an insatiable hunger for sense indulgence. To remain in self-control without endless sense-hunger is meant by the term non-covetousness. GENTLENESS AND MODESTY --- These are not so much the particular disciplines of the individual, as the resultant beauty and harmony which an individual brings forth as the fragrance of his culture, in his contacts with the world outside. These two qualities are best seen in one who has established himself in all the above-mentioned noble qualities. The conduct of such a disciplined man will be both gentle and modest. ABSENCE OF FICKLE-NESS --- NOT UNNECESSARILY MOVING THE LIMBS (Achaapalam) --- Restlessness of mind and unsteadiness of character are reflected in the physical movement of a person. The body shadows the condition of the mind. A constant restlessness, a sudden outburst of activity, an immodest shaking of the body and voluptuous tossings of the limbs are all noticed only in individuals who have not yet cultivated a steady character and a purposeful personality. These can be seen in a child and there they are even considered as enhancing its beauty. But as an individual grows, the beauty in him is his mastery over himself as declared by his movements. Shankara explains this as " NOT TO SPEAK OR MOVE HANDS AND LEGS IN VAIN. " This is an extension of the meaning of this term, and implies the promptitude and economy of all physical energy in any efficient activity. Unnecessarily exhausting the muscles with indecisive movements and thoughtless exertions are signs of weakness in the personality. Such individuals are extremely imaginative and miserably weak in their intellectual calibre and emotional vitality. To avoid such movements, therefore, is to cure many simple weaknesses at the various facets of any given personality. MOREOVER, CONTINUING THE LIST OF DIVINE QUALITIES: to be continued... Hare Krishna!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 Pranams. Thank you Radhe-ji for the introductory two verses and the Shankara bhashyas on the same. My humble suggestion to you and Ram-ji would be to take a pause, and take up at this juncture each and every one of these attributes, and allow/encourage all the (2000plus!!) group members to dwell on these divine attributes at some length - one attribute at a time. It would be great if each and every member of this forum contributed a small paragraph, or anecdote, or poem, or anything relevant to any one of these qualities. I shall begin by a small write-up on abhayam the very first quality, and it is my hope that we get a great many members to spend 10 or 15min of their time with one or more original contributions.  Abhayam It is at first glance perhaps surprising that Krishna should start listing the divine qualities with something like “courage†– after all when we think of a saintly person the first quality that comes to our mind is not necessarily one of bravery – conditioned as we are to associating bravery with violence and war – “brave as a lion†is a common epithet. However when one examines this more one realizes that this really is the quality that most characterizes a saint. The fearlessness is at two levels – for a self-realized there is no other that he should feel fear for – and so absolute fearlessness can only come from advaita –as the Chandogya Up declares “abhayam etad-brahmetiâ€; The Katha Upanishad also conveys the same: “abhayam samsaraparam†Fearlessness is the other shore of samsara – i.e. Brahman. But at the level of a seeker abhayam comes from faith coupled with adherence to dharma. Faith in the Supreme Lord as one’s savior and benefactor allows the seeker to be less mindful of the numerous obstacles that may come his way during his sadhana. " Be of good courage, and he shall strengthen your heart, all you that hope in the LORD. " These are exemplified in the story of the young boy Prahlada whose own father tries to kill him in multiple ways and the fearless lad is able to withstand and survive all of these by dint of his exalted devotion. In fact after slaying his demoniac father Hiranyakashipu, Vishnu in his avatara as Nrsimha was in a state of severe umbrage that even the Gods and Goddess Lakshmi Herself were said to be in no position to approach him because of fear. It was only Prahlad who because of his tremendous devotion to the Lord was able to approach the Lrod who in turn immediately resolved his ferocious form upon seeing his Supreme devotee. Contrast this with Arjuna’s fear on seeing a similar ferocious form of the Lord  whereupon he is simply struck with benumbing fear and requests the Lord to withdraw that form, as he is still not mature enough in his devotion to withstand beholding the Lord in that vicous aspect. Even in everyday practice, we gain fearlessness when we know we are being protected by someone powerful – either the law-giver like the police or in some cases the unlawful like the mafia don. In the case of a true seeker his source of fearlessness is also similar – only difference is he places his trust in the Ultimate Don! – the only one in whom such trust can be reassuringly unfailing. This is the basis for the abhaya mudra which every Deity in Hinduism is portrayed with. In a big cyclonic storm a mother sits with her 2 year old child in a poorly lit room. The wind is blowing hard, the waters are pouring down violently. The mother is highly anxious. The child is playing with his toy – totally fearless. Why? Because he has his mother sitting with him. As long as his mother is with him, he has unshakeable and unflinching faith that nothing untoward can happen to him, he is protected. In our case too, there is the potential for violent thunderstorms at all times. And we do not even have a weather channel to warn us of upcoming inclement weather. Illness to us, diseases for our near and dear ones, even death, personal loss, financial loss or even gain, natural calamaties can befall us - rather very likely WILL befall us at sometime. In these circumstances, maintaining chittanaischalyam may prove impossible - what saves you from that? - faith. Just like that 2 yr old, if we develop unshakable faith and shraddha in our Divine Mother, then no matter what the happenings in my life are I know they are not going to touch me beyond a point - I have Ishwara in my corner. That then is the very basis for abhayam. Hari OM Shri Gurubhyoh namah Shyam --- On Sun, 10/25/09, Radhe <shaantih wrote: Radhe <shaantih Gita Satsangh Chapter 16 Verses 1 & 2 advaitin Sunday, October 25, 2009, 10:05 AM Chapter 16 Sri Bhagavaan Uvaacha: Abhayam sattwasamshuddhih jnaanayogavyavasthi tih; Daanam damashcha yajnashcha swaadhyaayastapa aarjavam. The Blessed Lord said: 1. Fearlessness, purity of heart, steadfastness in Yoga and knowledge, alms-giving, control of the senses, sacrifice, study of scriptures, austerity and straightforwardness , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Dear Shyamji, Thank you for your excellent recent post on abhayam. I wanted to raise some issues regarding abhayam through faith in Ishvara, not by way of argument but to try to better understand what exactly is giving us reassurance (b/c *something* is, no doubt). As you mentioned, the child has faith that " he is protected " . In the case of the child, this is a false faith due to ignorance. There are many things from which he is not protected, even though he feels completely protected. In the case of being protected by Ishvara, what does this protection mean - what are we being protected from, exactly? Also, does this protection apply to everyone or only to those who fully take refuge in Ishvara? If it is only to those who fully take refuge, then faith in Ishvara is dependent on one's faith in one's own ability to take refuge. For many of us, it is the latter that we are more likely to have doubts about... Regards, Rishi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 In the case of Mother-Child relationship, " step into the shoes " of the child and feel his pulse. Imagine yourself to be child and you will feel the gentle touch of the Mother. Because, we are gazing the scene which is something *external* to us, we feel that the child's faith is false. Supposing, we are unaware of the mithyatva of the relationship, just imagine how sweet the relationship would be if we think from the standpoint of the innocent ego-less child. So, i presume, Shri Shyamji has made that statement from the standpoint of an innocent child. SO, ULTIMATELY, THE STATEMENT IS " LET US FACE THE MUSIC OF LIFE " . regs, sriram advaitin , " risrajlam " <rishi.lamichhane wrote: > > Dear Shyamji, > > Thank you for your excellent recent post on abhayam. I wanted to raise some issues regarding abhayam through faith in Ishvara, not by way of argument but to try to better understand what exactly is giving us reassurance (b/c *something* is, no doubt). > > As you mentioned, the child has faith that " he is protected " . In the case of the child, this is a false faith due to ignorance. There are many things from which he is not protected, even though he feels completely protected. > > In the case of being protected by Ishvara, what does this protection mean - what are we being protected from, exactly? Also, does this protection apply to everyone or only to those who fully take refuge in Ishvara? If it is only to those who fully take refuge, then faith in Ishvara is dependent on one's faith in one's own ability to take refuge. For many of us, it is the latter that we are more likely to have doubts about... > > Regards, > > Rishi. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 The 'dhIraM' in BG 2/15 - " yaM .... dhIraM soAmR^itatvAya kalpate " - also indictes the imp of this quality - 'fearlessness'. Regards Balagopal Keep up with people you care about with India Mail. Learn how. http://in.overview.mail./connectmore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Pranams Shri Balagopalji Dhirah is more appropriately understood as a viveki or as a Wise person. We find similar use of the term dhirah with regards to a Wise One in the upanishads as well - tau samparitya vivinakti dhirah, and kaschit dhirah prtyagatmanam aikshat from the Katha Up. and bhutesu bhutesu vicitya dhirah from the Kena Up. among other instances. Needless to say such a Dhirah has Absolute Abhayam. Hari OM Shyam --- On Wed, 10/28/09, balagopal ramakrishnan <rbalpal wrote: balagopal ramakrishnan <rbalpal Re: Gita Satsangh Chapter 16 Verses 1 & 2 advaitin Wednesday, October 28, 2009, 7:14 AM The 'dhIraM' in BG 2/15 - " yaM .... dhIraM soAmR^itatvAya kalpate " - also indictes the imp of this quality - 'fearlessness' . Regards Balagopal Keep up with people you care about with India Mail. Learn how. http://in.overview. mail.. com/connectmore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Dear Rishi-ji Thank you for your post and your very thoughtful posers - I think there are many ways of thinking about the answers to them and I thank Sriram-ji for giving his perspective.  Q. In the case of being protected by Ishvara, what does this protection mean -what are we being protected from, exactly? A. Let us look at the famous shantimantra - vang me manasi - it has the following lines: Tanmamavatu Tadvaktaaramavatu Avatu Maam Avatu Vaktaaram Avatu Vaktaaram Om Shantih, Shantih, Shantih May that (Brahman) protect me; May That protect the the teacher, may That protect me; may That protect the speaker – may That protect the speaker. As seekers the protection we ask is for this - protection from obstacles to our sadhana. And we repeat Shanti three times because the obstacles are three-fold. These obstacles are AdhyAtmikam, Adhibhautikam, Adhidaivikam. And all three lead to or have the potential of leading to great impediments to our sadhana; Adhyamtmikam - this is the most perverse of the three obstacles - suffering casued by one's own self ie the vagrancies and turmoils of one's mind. Greed, anger, jealousy, desire, and other such mental disturbances are constantly causing in us great upheavel and have the potential to derail any progress we may attempt to make. Adhibhautikam - is suffering brought about by others - these could be from our enemies, our neighbours, our friends, even our own family members - kith and kin, or other creatures like pesky mosquitoes,etc. Adhidaivikam - is generally thought to mean natural disasters like floods or earthquakes, etc. But a better reading would be look at it as that ordained by the very Order which is the Lord - our " ill-gotten gains " are nothing but the fruits of our own past adharmic actions, to the innumerous times since beginningless times that we have been violaltion of dharma and which lay in store for us as the futures we have ourselves shaped. So prayer allows us to tap into that very Order and obtain the Grace to help ward off or mitigate these obstacles - or alternatively give us the strength to withstand their downpour with fortitude and patience. Protection in a more general sense is also from that which we fear. We who harbor under the notion of our individuality are constantly in fear. I am so utterly limited and helpless that the entire Universe is a source of fear unto me.  bhoge roga bhayaM kule cyuti bhayaM vitta nRpAlAd bhayaM mAne dainya bhayaM bale ripu bhayaM rUpe jarAyA bhayam zAstre vAdi bhayaM guNe khala bhayaM kAye kRtAntAd bhayaM sarvaM vastu bhayAnvitaM bhuvi nRNAM vairAgyam evAbhayam (Vairagya Shatakam. 31) In enjoyment is the fear of disease, in wealth is the fear of hostile rulers, in honour is the fear of humiliation, in knowledge the fear of opponents, in beauty the fear of old age, in power the fear of backbiters, in virtue the fear of jealousy, even in body is the fear of death. Everything on this earth is fraught with fear. He alone is fearless who has given up everything. Thus we see that our greatest fears are the ones we fashion for ourselves. A truckload of a thousand bricks has absolutely no capacity to instill an iota of fear in my mind. A few skilled artisans fashion out of those very bricks a structure which I call my house and now those very bricks have become a great source of fear for me - because it is mine there is fear of loss. Same way if we introspect on these famous lines of Bhrthari we realize that it is the honor we consider our own that we fear its loss, in the kith'n'kin we consider our own we fear their demise, and so on. So protection then is solicited for that very thing which our own minds have latched on to with a sense of infatuated possessiveness. Q. Also, does this protection apply to everyone or only to those who fully take refuge in Ishvara? If it is only to those who fully take refuge, then faith in Ishvara is dependent on one's faith in one's own ability to take refuge. A. These are indeed sublime thoughts Rishi-ji. There is a beautiful prayer to Ishwara, (which is my personal favorite) - humko sharanagati ki shakti dena - O Lord, please bestow unto me the strength so I may surrender. There is tremendous depth in these simple words. Surrender is thought of as belonging to the meek, and misunderstood as being a sign of the weak. In reality surrender itself requires tremendous strength. That in us which refuses to surrender is the Ego, and it does so because of fear and deeprooted insecurity that betray its own falsitude. How then to develop and nurture this Ego's ability to take refuge? Prayer - I ask of the Order to strengthen my yet feeble faith so that as it deepens so does my capacity to surrender. Our prayer is to " Help me understand that as my Ego " I " am nothing, and as my Lord, my antaryamin, " I " alone am everything. " In this manner then, as I gain in both shraddha, and hence in sharanagati, - faith and surrender - naturally then do I develop fearlessness abhayam. Once again my pranams to Rishi-ji for stimulating more thought on this subject - it is a lesson in satsanga that as we start to scratch the surface of these " qualities " we uncover so many layers of perspectives and understandings,and dwelling on these at some length is what is truly beneficial about satsanga. I look forward to more perspectives from the learned members of our group. Hari OM Shri Gurubhyoh namah Shyam --- On Wed, 10/28/09, risrajlam <rishi.lamichhane wrote: risrajlam <rishi.lamichhane Re: Gita Satsangh Chapter 16 Verses 1 & 2 advaitin Wednesday, October 28, 2009, 5:46 AM  Dear Shyamji, Thank you for your excellent recent post on abhayam. I wanted to raise some issues regarding abhayam through faith in Ishvara, not by way of argument but to try to better understand what exactly is giving us reassurance (b/c *something* is, no doubt). As you mentioned, the child has faith that " he is protected " . In the case of the child, this is a false faith due to ignorance. There are many things from which he is not protected, even though he feels completely protected. In the case of being protected by Ishvara, what does this protection mean - what are we being protected from, exactly? Also, does this protection apply to everyone or only to those who fully take refuge in Ishvara? If it is only to those who fully take refuge, then faith in Ishvara is dependent on one's faith in one's own ability to take refuge. For many of us, it is the latter that we are more likely to have doubts about... Regards, Rishi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Namaste Satsanghis: I have requested Shyamji to lead the discussions for Chapter 16 and I ham happy to report that he enthusiastically accepted my request. Already the Satsangh is filled with interactions from many members and it seems that everyone is keen in acquiring the 'Divine Virtues.' We the participants of the Gita Satsangh are all truly blessed with the services from both Radheji (posting verses, translation and commentary) and Shyamji (leading the discussions). With my warm regards, Ram Chandran advaitin , Shyam <shyam_md wrote: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 -.. " Needless to say such a Dhirah has Absolute Abhayam " Dear Shyamji, Right Shyamji. When 'vivek' matures 'wisdom' dawns and 'fear' recedes. 'Fear' is the emotion of lack of right knowledge. Can we say 'nistraiguNyo bhavA' of BG 2/45 is the practical suggestion ? Regards Balagopal India has a new look. Take a sneak peek http://in./trynew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 Dear Gopalji, Namaste. Nirbhayatva comes when the sadhaka treads the path of " Dharma " . It is the Dharma that bestows the Fearlessness. That is why Bhartrihari in his Vairagya shataka says: **************** bhoge rogabhayam kule chyutibhayam vitte nR^ipAlAdbhayam mAne dainyabhayam bale ripubhayam rUpe jarAyA bhayam shAstre vAdibhayam guNe khalabhayam kAye kRtAntAdbhayam sarvam vastu bhayAnvitam bhuvi nR^iNAm vairAgyamevAbhayam ************************** regs, sriram advaitin , balagopal ramakrishnan <rbalpal wrote: > > > > -.. " Needless to say such a Dhirah has Absolute Abhayam " > > Dear Shyamji, > > Right Shyamji. When 'vivek' matures 'wisdom' dawns and 'fear' recedes. 'Fear' is the emotion of lack of right knowledge. Can we say 'nistraiguNyo bhavA' of BG 2/45 is the practical suggestion ? > > > Regards > > Balagopal > > > > > > > > > > > India has a new look. Take a sneak peek http://in./trynew > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 Pranams Sriram-ji 'Nirbhayatva comes when the sadhaka treads the path of " Dharma " .' a pithy statement indeed. How and why does dharma lead to abhayam? Of course the simplistic example may be that if one does not cheat - either the teacher, as a grade 5 student, or the government, as in the case of the CEO of Enron or Satyam - one has no fear of getting caught. But how else might adherence to dharma lead to fearlessness when seen out of the context of this simplistic mold? In anything I do, does simply knowing I am adhering to dharma help me overcome fear, even if the actual act or content of my actions be unchanged? If adherence to dharma is putting me in a situation of obvious " personal risk " - health-wise, wealth-wise, etc - would this relationship still hold - after all doesnt risk entail fear as well? Would you be able to throw more light on this? Once again I request our esteemed list members to pitch in with their thoughts as well. Hari OM Shyam --- On Thu, 10/29/09, babi <sriram_sapthasathi wrote: babi <sriram_sapthasathi Re: Gita Satsangh Chapter 16 Verses 1 & 2 advaitin Thursday, October 29, 2009, 8:32 AM Dear Gopalji, Namaste. Nirbhayatva comes when the sadhaka treads the path of " Dharma " . It is the Dharma that bestows the Fearlessness. That is why Bhartrihari in his Vairagya shataka says: ************ **** bhoge rogabhayam kule chyutibhayam vitte nR^ipAlAdbhayam mAne dainyabhayam bale ripubhayam rUpe jarAyA bhayam shAstre vAdibhayam guNe khalabhayam kAye kRtAntAdbhayam sarvam vastu bhayAnvitam bhuvi nR^iNAm vairAgyamevAbhayam ************ ********* ***** regs, sriram advaitin@ s.com, balagopal ramakrishnan <rbalpal > wrote: > > > > -.. " Needless to say such a Dhirah has Absolute Abhayam " > > Dear Shyamji, > > Right Shyamji. When 'vivek' matures 'wisdom' dawns and 'fear' recedes. 'Fear' is the emotion of lack of right knowledge. Can we say 'nistraiguNyo bhavA' of BG 2/45 is the practical suggestion ? > > > Regards > > Balagopal > > > > > > > > > > > India has a new look. Take a sneak peek http://in.. com/trynew > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 advaitin , Shyam <shyam_md wrote: >> > --- On Thu, 10/29/09, babi <sriram_sapthasathi wrote: > > > babi <sriram_sapthasathi > Re: Gita Satsangh Chapter 16 Verses 1 & 2 > advaitin > Thursday, October 29, 2009, 8:32 AM > > > > That is why Bhartrihari in his Vairagya shataka says: > > ************ **** > > bhoge rogabhayam kule chyutibhayam vitte nR^ipAlAdbhayam > mAne dainyabhayam bale ripubhayam rUpe jarAyA bhayam > shAstre vAdibhayam guNe khalabhayam kAye kRtAntAdbhayam > sarvam vastu bhayAnvitam bhuvi nR^iNAm vairAgyamevAbhayam 31. http://sanskritdocuments.org/doc_z_misc_major_works/vairagya.itx There is fear of disease in the enjoyment of sensual pleasures; in lineage, fear of decline; in riches, fear of kings; fear of humiliation in honor; fear of enemies when in power; fear of old age in beauty; in learning, fear of disputants; in virtue, fear of the wicked; in body, fear of death. All facets of man's life on earth engender fear; renunciation alone is fearless. ##bhoga ## = enjoyments ##asthairya## = trasitoriness ##varNanaM ## = description ##bhoge ## = in enjoyment ##roga ## = disease ##bhaya.n ## = fear ##kule ## = in lineage ##chyutibhaya.n ## = fear of disgrace ##vitta ## = wealth ##nR^ipaalaadbhayaM ## = fear of more powerful kings ##maane ## = in honor ##dainyabhayaM ## = dishonor ##bale ## = in strength ##ripubhaya.n ## = fear of enemies ##ruupe ## = in beauty ##jaraayaa ## = old age ##bhayaM ## = fear ##shaastre ## = in scriptural knowledge ##vaadibhaya.n ## = fear of debaters ##guNe ## = in virtue ##khalabhaya.n ## = fear of the wicked ##kaaye ## = in body ##kR^itaantaadbhaya.n ## = fear of death ##sarva.n ## = all ##vastu ## = existece ##bhayaanvitaM ## = pervaded by fear ##bhuvi ## = in this world ##nR^iNaa.n ## = of persons ##vairaagyaM ## = renunciation ##eva ## = alone ##abhayaM ## = fearless http://sanskritdocuments.org/doc_z_misc_major_works/vairagya.itx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 Dear Shyamji, Perhaps one way that living in accordance with dharma leads to fearlessness is that it does not reinforce fear. As with desires, acting in accordance with a fear only makes the fear stronger and more deeply rooted. On the other hand, not coming under the sway of fear (tayor na vasham aagacchet) naturally weakens fear. So for someone who acts according to dharma and not according to fear, even if fear arrises, it does not have much of an impact and just naturally subsides. Regards, Rishi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 Dear Shyamji, *********** 'Nirbhayatva comes when the sadhaka treads the path of " Dharma " .' a pithy statement indeed ****************** I don't understand why this is a pithy statement. Infact, one should have the *guts* of following the dharma marga. Take atleast one criteria of dharma marga ie., speaking truth. Can we?? I really doubt. One need to be *Fearless* to speak the Truth. Because we have a sense of guilt and inherent, we cannot speak the truth. The life of Rama is a splendid example of this. If we look at the entire Ramayana, the most wonderful quality of the Rama is Nirbhayatva. This Nirbhayatva comes only through " Dharma Nishta " . And hence called " Ramo vigrahavan dharmah " . Now, one can add many vedantic colours to this " Fearlessness " like Samsara Bhaya, Dvaita bhaya or whatever...because when there is 2 ie., Iness & Myness this *bhaya* is likely to be there unless one sees his own self in all beings. Only then, the real *fearlessness* dawns. The real fearless dawns only when one sees the same brahman in all the creatures equally in Lion / Tiger, human beings, ants etc. Shri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa used to tell during his lighter moments in Bengali that " bAg narayan ke dur theke namashkar koro " . The meaning in English goes as: Do the prostration to Tiger Narayana from far off place lest the Tiger Narayana would kill you. So, if one is really fearless and sees the same paramatma in Tiger also, he is free to do so. Just my 2 cents. sriram advaitin , Shyam <shyam_md wrote: > > Pranams Sriram-ji > > 'Nirbhayatva comes when the sadhaka treads the path of " Dharma " .' a pithy statement indeed. > > How and why does dharma lead to abhayam? Of course the simplistic example may be that if one does not cheat - either the teacher, as a grade 5 student, or the government, as in the case of the CEO of Enron or Satyam - one has no fear of getting caught. > But how else might adherence to dharma lead to fearlessness when seen out of the context of this simplistic mold? In anything I do, does simply knowing I am adhering to dharma help me overcome fear, even if the actual act or content of my actions be unchanged? If adherence to dharma is putting me in a situation of obvious " personal risk " - health-wise, wealth-wise, etc - would this relationship still hold - after all doesnt risk entail fear as well? > > Would you be able to throw more light on this? Once again I request our esteemed list members to pitch in with their thoughts as well. > > Hari OM > Shyam > > --- On Thu, 10/29/09, babi <sriram_sapthasathi wrote: > > > babi <sriram_sapthasathi > Re: Gita Satsangh Chapter 16 Verses 1 & 2 > advaitin > Thursday, October 29, 2009, 8:32 AM > > > > > Dear Gopalji, > > Namaste. > > Nirbhayatva comes when the sadhaka treads the path of " Dharma " . It is the Dharma that bestows the Fearlessness. > > That is why Bhartrihari in his Vairagya shataka says: > > ************ **** > > bhoge rogabhayam kule chyutibhayam vitte nR^ipAlAdbhayam > mAne dainyabhayam bale ripubhayam rUpe jarAyA bhayam > shAstre vAdibhayam guNe khalabhayam kAye kRtAntAdbhayam > sarvam vastu bhayAnvitam bhuvi nR^iNAm vairAgyamevAbhayam > > ************ ********* ***** > > regs, > sriram > > advaitin@ s.com, balagopal ramakrishnan <rbalpal@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > -.. " Needless to say such a Dhirah has Absolute Abhayam " > > > > Dear Shyamji, > > > > Right Shyamji. When 'vivek' matures 'wisdom' dawns and 'fear' recedes. 'Fear' is the emotion of lack of right knowledge. Can we say 'nistraiguNyo bhavA' of BG 2/45 is the practical suggestion ? > > > > > > Regards > > > > Balagopal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > India has a new look. Take a sneak peek http://in.. com/trynew > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 Shyam advaitin Thursday, October 29, 2009 5:51 PM Re: Re: Gita Satsangh Chapter 16 Verses 1 & 2 Pranams Sriram-ji 'Nirbhayatva comes when the sadhaka treads the path of " Dharma " .' a pithy statement indeed. How and why does dharma lead to abhayam? Of course the simplistic example may be that if one does not cheat - either the teacher, as a grade 5 student, or the government, as in the case of the CEO of Enron or Satyam -one has no fear of getting caught. But how else might adherence to dharma lead to fearlessness when seen out of the context of this simplistic mold? In anything I do, does simply knowing I am adhering to dharma help me overcome fear, even if the actual act or content of my actions be unchanged? If adherence to dharma is putting me in a situation of obvious " personal risk " - health-wise, wealth-wise, etc -would this relationship still hold - after all doesnt risk entail fear as well? Dear Sriramji and Shyamji... I am not quite sure where saint Mirabai fits into your equation? There are so many examples in her life where she adhered to what I will call her personal swadharma as a devotee of Lord Krishna, so as to violate the mores of her time and her culture repeatedly, abandoning her so-called " duties " as a Rajiput woman to express her love for the Lord. As a woman, she was expected to perform sati (self immolation in the funeral fires) upon her husband's death. But she refused, not out of fear of death, but out of fearlessness of the consequences of her refusal to do so, maintaining that she was married to the Lord, not to the man she had been forced by convention to marry. She did not stop there, but spent her life devoted to Him regardless of the many dire consequences which her unhappy in laws tried to wreak upon her for her failure to abide by custom. One perfect example of this is the famous story wherein she willingly drank the drink which she knew contained poison given to her by her in-laws in their efforts to rid themselves of her embarassing behaviors. But in her fearlessness lay His blessings and she was spared each time. Not that this was what she wanted!!! She clearly had no fear of death of the body. One of my favorite Mirabai poems... Guide this little boat over the waters, what can I give you for fare? Our mutable world holds nothing but grief, bear me away from it. Eight bonds of karma have gripped me, the whole of creation swirls through eight million wombs, through eight million birth-forms we flicker. Mira cries. Dark One take this little boat to the far shore, put an end to coming and going. http://www.obooks.com/books/indiabk.htm She gave up her wealth, her health, her family, her physical comforts to devote herself to her Lord, Giridhrar naagara. It is almost as if BG 18.66 was written for her, or perhaps she was born to exemplify its meaning! Setting aside all Dharma, surrender completely to My will with firm faith and loving devotion. I shall liberate you from the bonds of Karma. Do not grieve. (BG18.66) (These comments are of relevance ONLY from the standpoint of the ignorant jiva who demands a cause, for a Duality that has no Reality to begin with;-) Not grieving, Radhe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 Namaste Radheji: You have raised an interesting question by giving the example of Saint Mirabai, the great devotee of Lord Krishna. Though you addressed your question to Shyamji and Sriramji, let me provide my understanding with the following observations. The answers to your question can be collected through Gita verses. Your statement that Mirabai was fearless was quite correct and she was truly following what Lord Krishna said in Bhagavad Gita, chapter 18, verse 26: Sarvadharmaanparityajya maamekam sharanamvraja Aham tvaa sarvapaapebhyo mokshayishyaami maa shuchah Here is the Sankara Bhashya as translated by Swami Gambirananda: " Abandoning all forms of rites and duties, take refuge in Me alone. I shall free you from all sins. (Therefore) do not grieve. Sarva-dharman, all forms of rites and duties: Here the word dharma (righteousness) includes adharma (unrighteousness) as well; for, what is intended is total renunciation of all actions, as is enjoined in Vedic and Smrti texts like, 'One who has not desisted from bad actions' (Ka. 1.2.24), 'Give up religions and irreligion' (Mbh. Sa. 329.40), etc. Parityajya, abandoning all rites and duties; [being a Ksatriya, Arjuna is not qualified for steadfastness in Knowledge through monasticism in the primary sense. Still, the Gita being meant for mankind as a whole, monasticism is spoken of here by accepting Arjuna as a representative man.] saranam vraja, take refuge; mam ekam, in Me alone, the Self of all, the same in all, existing in all beings, the Lord, the Imperishable, free from being in the womb, birth, old age and death-by knowing that I am verily so. That is, know it for certain that there is nothing besides Me. By revealing My real nature, aham, I; moksayisyami, shall free; tva, you, who have this certitude of understanding; sarva-papebhyah, from all sins, from all bondages in the form of righteousness and unrighteousness. It has also been stated, 'I, residing in their hearts, destroy the dark-ness born of ignorance with the luminous lamp of Knowledge' (10.11). Therefore, ma, do not; sucah, grieve, i.e. do not sorrow. " Dr. Radhakrishnan in his book sites this beautiful quotation from Ruysbroeck: " He only is fit to contemplate the Divine light who is the slave to nothing, not even to his virtues. " With unreserved surrender to the Supreme, we will always attain total perfection. When we didn't reach the highest level of perfection, we should know that we didn't totally surrender our Ego! The Sanskrit word Dharma is quite complex and Dharma has ladders and one has to choose that which is of the highest order. By observing the highest level of dharma, one is forced to abandon lower order of dharma. For example, when a king has to perform his duties, the duty of the king is of higher order than his commitment to his family. In our life, we always get into similar conflicting situations and in those situations we have to make the correct judgment. For example, doctors who perform open heart surgery have to use a knife to cut open the chest area of their patients and they are fearless! A robber who uses the knife to harm an innocent citizen is adharmic and is fearful. Now coming back to Mirabai, she followed the highest order of dharma by surrendering all her personal duties in favor of taking refuge at the feet of Lord Krishna. She was totally unselfish with the only desire to be with the Lord. As I have stated earlier that the Sanskrit word Dharma is complex and needs careful understanding of the context. As a matter of fact the story of Mirabai also needs to be understood carefully by looking into fine prints by fully taking account of what was told in the story and what was not told. From Mirabai's point of view there were no violations, and all others who were around and those who read the story may have different opinions. Those of you who come from southern part of India may be familiar with the story of Aandal which is very parallel to Mirabai. Aandal, the daughter of temple priest in Srivalliputhur (a small town near south of Madurai) used to try the garland on her neck before offering to the Lord. See the complete story at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aandaal Her father thought that she has committed a sin but the Lord refused to take the garland before it was tried by Aandal. Both Mirabai and Aandal were fearless because they had the full protection from the Lord: Lord Krishna once again said in Gita chapter 9, verse 22: ananyaash-chintayanto maa.n yejanaaH paryupaasate. teshhaa.n nityaabhiyuk{}taanaa.n yogakshemaM vahaamyaham.h .. " To those men who worship me alone, thinking of no other, of those ever-united, I secure that which is not already possessed and preserve what they already possess " . The Lord loves and protect us as much we love the Lord. Those who understood and follow this Dharma (like Mirabai and Aandal will be always fearless! With my warm regards, Ram Chandran General note: To a larger extent clearer understanding of Gita can be enhanced with the study of epics such as the Mahabharat and Ramayana. The roles played by the key personalities such as Rama, Ravana, Yudhishtira, Duryodhana,Karna, Bhisma, Drona, Dhrishtrashtra, Sanjaya will help us to understand more about Dharma and the violation of dharma. Some familiarity with the key Upanishads can also be helpful to get the complete interpretation of the message of Gita. This may explain why we need to listen to the words and writings of great Mahatmas instead of just reading Gita using a book and a Sanskrit dictionary. We are quite fortunate to get engaged in this Cyber Satsangh where we are able to explore our understanding of Lord Krishna's advice to Arjuna with a focus on Sankara's advaita philosophy by exchanging our ideas and view points. advaitin , " Radhe " <shaantih wrote: > > > I am not quite sure where saint Mirabai fits into your equation? > There are so many examples in her life where she adhered to what > I will call her personal swadharma as a devotee of Lord Krishna, so > as to violate the mores of her time and her culture repeatedly, > abandoning her so-called " duties " as a Rajiput woman to express > her love for the Lord. As a woman, she was expected to perform > sati (self immolation in the funeral fires) upon her husband's death. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2009 Report Share Posted November 3, 2009 Dear Radhe-ji, If we have to take the example of Mirabai, who is nevertheless, a fearless devotee, we have to take all the devotees like nayannars / alwars, the vira saiva saint & poetess of Karnataka Akka Mahadevi etc. who are verily & truly fearless given the fact that they lived in their own plane of consciousness (from paramarthika view, if i am not wrong). But i am talking in terms of vyavaharika view by considering the fearlessness as a quality or one of the facets of the human personality. A few decades ago, a frail, scantily clad old man walked amidst us *fearlessly* who lead the National Freedom Struggle with a silent revolution called Satyagraha. His name was Mahatma Gandhi. Was he not fearless who stuck to his principles of non-violence & truth (if we leave aside his political policies for some time...). So, ultimately what i say is " A man of principles is always fearless, come what may " . Just my 2 cents. With warm regards, sriram advaitin , " Radhe " <shaantih wrote: > > Shyam > advaitin > Thursday, October 29, 2009 5:51 PM > Re: Re: Gita Satsangh Chapter 16 Verses 1 & 2 > > Pranams Sriram-ji > > 'Nirbhayatva comes when the sadhaka treads the path of > " Dharma " .' a pithy statement indeed. > > How and why does dharma lead to abhayam? Of course the > simplistic example may be that if one does not cheat - either the > teacher, as a grade 5 student, or the government, as in the case of > the CEO of Enron or Satyam -one has no fear of getting caught. > > But how else might adherence to dharma lead to fearlessness when > seen out of the context of this simplistic mold? In anything I do, > does simply knowing I am adhering to dharma help me overcome > fear, even if the actual act or content of my actions be unchanged? > If adherence to dharma is putting me in a situation of obvious > " personal risk " - health-wise, wealth-wise, etc -would this > relationship still hold - after all doesnt risk entail fear as well? > > Dear Sriramji and Shyamji... > > I am not quite sure where saint Mirabai fits into your equation? > There are so many examples in her life where she adhered to what > I will call her personal swadharma as a devotee of Lord Krishna, so > as to violate the mores of her time and her culture repeatedly, > abandoning her so-called " duties " as a Rajiput woman to express > her love for the Lord. As a woman, she was expected to perform > sati (self immolation in the funeral fires) upon her husband's death. > > But she refused, not out of fear of death, but out of fearlessness of > the consequences of her refusal to do so, maintaining that she was > married to the Lord, not to the man she had been forced by > convention to marry. She did not stop there, but spent her life > devoted to Him regardless of the many dire consequences which > her unhappy in laws tried to wreak upon her for her failure to > abide by custom. One perfect example of this is the famous story > wherein she willingly drank the drink which she knew contained > poison given to her by her in-laws in their efforts to rid themselves > of her embarassing behaviors. But in her fearlessness lay His > blessings and she was spared each time. Not that this was what > she wanted!!! She clearly had no fear of death of the body. > > One of my favorite Mirabai poems... > > Guide this little boat over the waters, > what can I give you for fare? > Our mutable world holds nothing but grief, > bear me away from it. > Eight bonds of karma have gripped me, > the whole of creation > swirls through eight million wombs, > through eight million birth-forms we flicker. > Mira cries. > Dark One take this little boat to the far shore, > put an end to coming and going. > > http://www.obooks.com/books/indiabk.htm > > She gave up her wealth, her health, her family, her physical > comforts to devote herself to her Lord, Giridhrar naagara. It is > almost as if BG 18.66 was written for her, or perhaps she was > born to exemplify its meaning! > > Setting aside all Dharma, surrender completely to My will with > firm faith and loving devotion. I shall liberate you from the bonds > of Karma. Do not grieve. (BG18.66) > > (These comments are of relevance ONLY from the standpoint of > the ignorant jiva who demands a cause, for a Duality that has no > Reality to begin with;-) > > Not grieving, > > Radhe > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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