Guest guest Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 Dear BhaskarReal great explanation on avidaya...if we say avidya is maya, then we get caught in ananyashra ...if i recall, the quotes from Swamy Paramananda Bharathi, he says for avidya samsara beeja, parameshwara through his maya creates world for the jeeva bhoga thanks 2b. Re: mAyA and avidyA cannot be synonyms Posted by: " Bhaskar YR " bhaskar.yr  bhaskaryr Thu Dec 3, 2009 1:08 am (PST) praNAms Sri Sastri prabhuji Hare Krishna Kindly pardon me if I have troubled you with my mail. Actually, I didnot want to debate this issue with your goodself. That is the reason why I shared my understanding of these two concepts under a separate thread without directly replying to your mail. Since you have asked avidyA lakshana & mAya lakshaNa as per shankara bhAshya. I would like to quote the following : avidyA : tAmasO hi pratyayaH, AvaraNAtmakatvAt avidyA vipareeta grAhakaH, saMshayOpasthApakO vA agrahaNAtmakOvA...(geeta 13-2) yadi jnAnAbhAvO, yadi saMshayajnAnam, yadi vipareeta jnAnaM vA uchyate ajnAnaM. (bruhadAraNyaka) and this avidyA is shankara clarifies in adhyAsa bhAshya that : evamayamanAdiranantaH naisargikOdhyAsaH mithyApratyaya rUpaH katrutva bhOktrutva pravartakaH, sarvalOka pratyakshaH..In short, it is jeeva's ignorance about his or her true nature. This is what is called avidyA in shankara bhAshya. mAya : 'mAyA nAma bahiranyathA AtmAnaM prakAshya anyathaiva karyaM karOti sA mAyA' is the shankara's explanation on the concept of mAya in prashna 1-16. And without this mAya there is no creation power to parameshwara, insists shankara in sUtra bhAshya (1-4-3) na hi tayA vinA parameshvarasya srashtrutvaM siddhyati...mAyAvyapAshrayaM cha pravartakatvaM (sUtra bhAshya 2-2-7) without shakti or mAya how can he engage himself in srushti?? : shakti rahitasya tasya pravruttyanupapatteH...And this mAya is called sometime as prakruti, mUla prakruti (mAyAM tu prakrutiM vidyAt) vaishNavi mAyA (daivi hyesha guNamayi mama mAyA duratyayA says lord krishna in geeta, vaishNaveeM svAm mAyAM mUlaprakrutiM vasheekrutya..says shankara in geeta introduction), avyakta (mahataH paraM avyaktaM in katha) and aksharaM (etasmin khalvakshare gArgyAkAsha Otashcha protascha says bruhadAraNyaka)..And this mAya has two forms clarifies geetAchArya i.e. parA & aparA prakruti (geeta 7-4). And, now, what exactly is this mAya according to shankara?? is this word mAya can be substituted to the word avidyA?? Ofcourse, Shankara does say that this causal potentiality or mAyA is nothing but avidyAtmaka (of the nature of avidyA). But here avidyAtmaka does not mean mAyA is identical with avidyA and both words can be used as 'paryAya " . shankara's following bhAshya vAkya-s in ArambhAdhikaraNa, clears this question beyond any doubt. sarvajnasya Ishvarasya Atmabhute iva " avidyA kalpite " nAma rUpe tatva anyatvAbhyAmanirvachaneeye saMsAra prapanchabeejabhute sarvajnasya Ishwarasya mAya, shaktihi, prakruti iti cha shrutismruttOrabhilapyete.. It is quite evident from the above bhAshya vAkya that shankara calls this mAya, shankti, prakruti etc. as 'avidyA kalpita' and this mAya (illusory appearance) cannot be defined to be identical with Ishvara or quite distinct from Ishwara. So, according to shankara, mAya is anirvachaneeya and it is shakti, prakruti,avyakta, akshara etc. when we have taken into consideration the creation. Can we explain avidyA also in the same lines?? can we say avidyA lakshaNa also same as mAya?? can we say avidyA also causal potentiality of Ishwara like mAyA despite shankara himself says mAya is avidyAkalpita, avidyApratyupasthApita, avidyAkruta, avidyAkArya, avidyAlakshana etc.?? Moreover, for avidyA, vidyA is the pratiyOgi, what is the pratiyOgi for the mAya?? mAya lakshaNa is anirvachaneeya and avidya is nirvachaneeya. So, noway, we can use both these terms alternatively. Respected Sri Sastri prabhuji, kindly dont think I am unnecessarily trying to argue with you. I am just sharing my thoughts with the forum. I donot want to disturb your goodself with these debates. Hence, kindly dont take trouble to reply this mail. I onceagain, beg your pardon for stretching this discussion beyond the limit. This is my last mail in this thread prabhuji. Thanks for your time & patience. Hari Hari Hari Bol!!! bhaskar Back to top Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 sorry some typo in my previous mailif we say avidya is maya, then we get caught in anyOnyAshraya dosha..if i recall, the quotes from Swamy Paramananda Bharathi, he says because of avidya samsara beejas of jeeva of previous brahma kalpa, parameshwara through his maya creates world for the jeeva bhoga so maya is action of eshwara for avidya of jeevawe CANNOT destroy maya, but we CAN destroy avidya thanksOn Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 12:41 PM, narendra sastry <narendra.sastry wrote: Dear BhaskarReal great explanation on avidaya...if we say avidya is maya, then we get caught in ananyashra ...if i recall, the quotes from Swamy Paramananda Bharathi, he says for avidya samsara beeja, parameshwara through his maya creates world for the jeeva bhoga thanks 2b. Re: mAyA and avidyA cannot be synonyms Posted by: " Bhaskar YR " bhaskar.yr  bhaskaryr Thu Dec 3, 2009 1:08 am (PST) praNAms Sri Sastri prabhuji Hare Krishna Kindly pardon me if I have troubled you with my mail. Actually, I didnot want to debate this issue with your goodself. That is the reason why I shared my understanding of these two concepts under a separate thread without directly replying to your mail. Since you have asked avidyA lakshana & mAya lakshaNa as per shankara bhAshya. I would like to quote the following : avidyA : tAmasO hi pratyayaH, AvaraNAtmakatvAt avidyA vipareeta grAhakaH, saMshayOpasthApakO vA agrahaNAtmakOvA...(geeta 13-2) yadi jnAnAbhAvO, yadi saMshayajnAnam, yadi vipareeta jnAnaM vA uchyate ajnAnaM. (bruhadAraNyaka) and this avidyA is shankara clarifies in adhyAsa bhAshya that : evamayamanAdiranantaH naisargikOdhyAsaH mithyApratyaya rUpaH katrutva bhOktrutva pravartakaH, sarvalOka pratyakshaH..In short, it is jeeva's ignorance about his or her true nature. This is what is called avidyA in shankara bhAshya. mAya : 'mAyA nAma bahiranyathA AtmAnaM prakAshya anyathaiva karyaM karOti sA mAyA' is the shankara's explanation on the concept of mAya in prashna 1-16. And without this mAya there is no creation power to parameshwara, insists shankara in sUtra bhAshya (1-4-3) na hi tayA vinA parameshvarasya srashtrutvaM siddhyati...mAyAvyapAshrayaM cha pravartakatvaM (sUtra bhAshya 2-2-7) without shakti or mAya how can he engage himself in srushti?? : shakti rahitasya tasya pravruttyanupapatteH...And this mAya is called sometime as prakruti, mUla prakruti (mAyAM tu prakrutiM vidyAt) vaishNavi mAyA (daivi hyesha guNamayi mama mAyA duratyayA says lord krishna in geeta, vaishNaveeM svAm mAyAM mUlaprakrutiM vasheekrutya..says shankara in geeta introduction), avyakta (mahataH paraM avyaktaM in katha) and aksharaM (etasmin khalvakshare gArgyAkAsha Otashcha protascha says bruhadAraNyaka)..And this mAya has two forms clarifies geetAchArya i.e. parA & aparA prakruti (geeta 7-4). And, now, what exactly is this mAya according to shankara?? is this word mAya can be substituted to the word avidyA?? Ofcourse, Shankara does say that this causal potentiality or mAyA is nothing but avidyAtmaka (of the nature of avidyA). But here avidyAtmaka does not mean mAyA is identical with avidyA and both words can be used as 'paryAya " . shankara's following bhAshya vAkya-s in ArambhAdhikaraNa, clears this question beyond any doubt. sarvajnasya Ishvarasya Atmabhute iva " avidyA kalpite " nAma rUpe tatva anyatvAbhyAmanirvachaneeye saMsAra prapanchabeejabhute sarvajnasya Ishwarasya mAya, shaktihi, prakruti iti cha shrutismruttOrabhilapyete.. It is quite evident from the above bhAshya vAkya that shankara calls this mAya, shankti, prakruti etc. as 'avidyA kalpita' and this mAya (illusory appearance) cannot be defined to be identical with Ishvara or quite distinct from Ishwara. So, according to shankara, mAya is anirvachaneeya and it is shakti, prakruti,avyakta, akshara etc. when we have taken into consideration the creation. Can we explain avidyA also in the same lines?? can we say avidyA lakshaNa also same as mAya?? can we say avidyA also causal potentiality of Ishwara like mAyA despite shankara himself says mAya is avidyAkalpita, avidyApratyupasthApita, avidyAkruta, avidyAkArya, avidyAlakshana etc.?? Moreover, for avidyA, vidyA is the pratiyOgi, what is the pratiyOgi for the mAya?? mAya lakshaNa is anirvachaneeya and avidya is nirvachaneeya. So, noway, we can use both these terms alternatively. Respected Sri Sastri prabhuji, kindly dont think I am unnecessarily trying to argue with you. I am just sharing my thoughts with the forum. I donot want to disturb your goodself with these debates. Hence, kindly dont take trouble to reply this mail. I onceagain, beg your pardon for stretching this discussion beyond the limit. This is my last mail in this thread prabhuji. Thanks for your time & patience. Hari Hari Hari Bol!!! bhaskar Back to top Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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