What is the point of ritual? Samhkya. And Advaita itself.

[Guest guest]

2009/12/29 mrfluffypuff <mrfluffypuff

<<What Is The Point of Ritual? I am aware that even Shankara practiced

ritual to some extent. Afterall, he founded Smartism and instituted a

new Puja to unit the fighting hindu sects.>>

 

 

 

All Hindu-s are ritualists in one way or the other. " Smartism " was not

founded by Shankara. The term " Smarta " essentially refers to the core

Vedic tradition and the ritual-ethical complex that went along with it

(notably the kalpasutra-s and dharmasutra-s). An important element of

this tradition is that the none of the multifarious Vedic deities is

conceptually privileged over the other, though individuals may have

their preferences. Somewhere down the line, sects sprang up which

conceptually privileged one deity over the other. Shankara, in

traditional Smarta spirit, did not accept such a " gradation " between

deities and it is said that he instituted the panchayatana puja to

give concrete expression to this spirit.

 

Let me also add that the so-called " fighting Hindu sects " did not

really fight in a literal sense. What did happen was competition for

royal patronage and debates (sometimes heated). In extreme situations,

this sometimes led to political maneuvering and accusations, captured

in traditional hagiographies.

 

 

 

<<But, my question is, what is the point of ritual when you have

experienced the unity of the self with Brahman? There is no other, so

in effect, you are only worshiping your true self albeit in 5 or 6

different forms. Theres really no " God " in Advaita, is there? At least

not a god that isnt really just you.So whats the point of worhsip?>>

 

If one has clearly understood non-duality, then there is no need for

any action, let alone ritual action. But from an empirical

perspective, the body-mind complex continues to act (the traditional

explanation is that this is on the basis of prarabdha) and such action

may or may not include ritual action. The point is that ritual action

(and any other action) is " transcended " and not " rejected " .

 

From a historical perspective, all the Hindu philosophical traditions,

including the Bauddha-s and Jaina-s, are evolutes of the ritual

traditions. For example, the word " karma " in a strict sense refers to

ritual action. In a broader (and historically later) sense it refers

to any action, and in a still broader sense it refers to the law of

moral cause and effect which we commonly refer to as the " law of

karma " .

 

In a sense all the Indian philosophies evolved out of deliberation on

the relationship between the doer and the deed (kartA and karma),

which has its roots in the ritual tradition in the form of the link

between the ritualist and the ritual itself.

 

 

 

<<Is Sankhya Worth studying? I wonder, is Sankhya philosophy worth

studying with its cosmology of the world we live in? Yes, I know

Advaita explains the ultimate truth. But the fact is, we still live in

Maya, in the world of many forms. And Sankhya explained it. For that

alone, wouldnt it be worth studying for practical purposes? Especially

for the knowledge or Prakriti as here in the world of forms it is what

most seems to be " not us " and the purusha is what seems to be atman.>>

 

Traditionally, all the classical " 6 darshana-s " were studied as an

integrated whole, at least by Advaitin-s. The notion that one studies

Advaita alone on a standalone basis is a recent development.

 

In fact, if one studies Advaita from traditional teachers one will

automatically end up studying all the classical 6 darshana-s plus

elements of vyakarana (grammar) and Bauddha/Jaina philosophies.

 

 

 

<<I recently became aware that Shankara didnt just write a few hymns,

and commentaries on scriptures, but that he also actually wrote some

things expounding his philosophy directly.(Or so I have read) Anyone

know the titles of such works? I have websites I can go to to read

almost anything he wrote but because I dont understand Sanskrit I need

specific titles or I wont know what to look for.>>

 

I suppose you are referring to texts such as the Upadesa-Sahasri and

the Vivekachudamani. You will find a good listing of texts on Dennis

Waite's website <www.advaita.org.uk>

[Guest guest]

advaitin , " mrfluffypuff " <mrfluffypuff wrote:

>

> What Is The Point of Ritual?

>

> I am aware that even Shankara practiced ritual to some extent. Afterall, he

founded Smartism and instituted a new Puja to unit the fighting hindu sects.

But, my question is, what is the point of ritual when you have experienced the

unity of the self with Brahman? There is no other, so in effect, you are only

worshiping your true self albeit in 5 or 6 different forms. Theres really no

" God " in Advaita, is there? At least not a god that isnt really just you.So

whats the point of worhsip?

 

Answer--

If you have actually experienced the unity of the self with Brahman, then you

have no need for rituals or even the upanishads. No doubts of the kind you have

raised will arise in your mind then, because the Mundaka upanishad says that

when one has realized that he is Brahaman, all doubts come to an end. The very

fact that you have questions is proof that you have not yet experienced the

unity of the self and Brahman. You have only intellectual knowledge. You are

therefore still under the influence of avidya, like me and all the other members

of this list. As long as you are in avidya the world is real for you. You cannot

give up eating because you know that hunger is mithya. Similarly you have to

carry out all worldly activities till you cross over avidya.

It is true that in rituals we are worshipping God who is in essence none othan

ourselves. In fact in every ritual worship, there are certain preliminary

procedures calld nyAsa, by which the worshipper has to think of himself as

identical with the God whom he is worshipping. The rule is, " shivo bhUtvA shivam

pUjayet " , which means, " One should worship shiva after looking upon oneself as

shiva " . In worship it is the worshipper's own consciousness that is first

invoked in the idol worshipped. At the end of the worship the worshipper takes

back the consciousness from the idol into himself. Thus it is one's own

consciousness, which is Brahman, that is worshipped, with the idol as a tool for

concentration of the mind. But at the same time the difference caused by avidya

is also there. Worship is a means of attaining concentration of nind, which is

essential for Self-knowledge to dawn.

There are other rituals meant to attain specific results such as children,

wealth, etc. Even these, if performed without desire for the result, will purify

the mind and make it free from all desires, and thus fit for the dawn of

knowledge.

>

>

> Is Sankhya Worth studying?

>

> I wonder, is Sankhya philosophy worth studying with its cosmology of the world

we live in? Yes, I know Advaita explains the ultimate truth. But the fact is, we

still live in Maya, in the world of many forms. And Sankhya explained it. For

that alone, wouldnt it be worth studying for practical purposes? Especially for

the knowledge or Prakriti as here in the world of forms it is what most seems to

be " not us " and the purusha is what seems to be atman.

 

Answer- It is certainly useful to study to study Sankhya and take whatever is

not opposed to advaita.

 

Best wishes,

S.N.Sastri