A Fifth Yoga

January 3, 2010

Pranams!I wish to suggest a fifth Yoga added to Bhakti, Jnana, Karma & Raja. It is Aesthetic Yoga (if someone can help me with the Sanskrit term for it, I would be much obliged). The reason for my suggestion is that I have heard that great artists in any field - dance, music, poetry, etc - have experienced something of a "communion with the Lord" during the heights of their performances. I believe that followers on this path (with support of Jnana) would have the possibility of reaching enlightenment as with any other path.I would like to point out at the outset that I think this path is different from the Bhakti Marg as many artists do not necessarily perform to please the Lord per se.I would like the esteemed members of the group for their views, if it so please them.Thanks, Mahesh

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January 3, 2010

Dear Sri Mahesh,

Namaste.

It may be a nice idea to add any number of yogas to the existing ones.

But, it is not possible. The authority for these yogas is not one's

wish or what one hears. It is all the testimony of the scriptures.

If something is not available in the scriptures, that cannot be a path

for God Realization(GR). Those paths that are conducive to GR are

amply analyzed, standardized, and made as a system, out of which these

yogas emerge. If you have any authority of the scriptures for your

wish, then, you need not ask anyone to add the same to the existing

list; for it would have been added already.

With regards,

Anupam.

January 3, 2010

Namaste dear Mahesh:

Your comments are quite valid but there is no need to name a new yoga with

another label. The great scientists, artists and poets work with a single focus

on their work without any selfish desires. They will fall into the category

mentioned by you. There is story in Mahabharat which illustrates the Aesthetic

Yoga (proposed by you). The story is also known as Vyadha. The story describes

the teachings imparted by a Vyadh (Butcher) to a Sanyasi (monk) and occurs in

the Vana Parva section of Mahabharat. This story was originally narrated by

Rishi Markandeya to the eldest Pandava - Yudhishra.

A brahmin sanyasi was meditating when a bird's droppings from the tree fell on

him and he was disturbed. He looked at the bird and it fell dead on the ground.

This adds a lot of ego and arrogance in the Sanyasi because he assumed that he

has realized his innate " powers " . He went to the village looking for alms and

came to a house where he asked for food. The housewife inside was attending to

her sick husband and asked the Sanyasi to wait. This angered the Sanyasi and he

said to himsel " How dare this woman make me to wait! She did not seem to know my

power yet " . Suddenly he heard the voice of the housewife from inside the house:

" Hei Sanyasi, don't think too much of yourself. I am not the bird who fell from

the tree!. " The Sanyasi was shocked and asked the lady that how did she know

about the bird?

The lady replied that she did not practice any austerities and by doing her duty

with " cheerfulness and wholeheartedness " she became illumined, so she could read

his mind. She then told him about a dharma-vyadha (the righteous butcher) in the

town of Mithila and said that the Sanyasi should take lessons from this

dharma-vyadha to clear all his doubts.

But the Sanyasi was shocked and after some thoughts he took the ladyfs advice

and went to Mithila. When he reaches Mithila he found the market and there saw,

at a distance, a big fat Vyadha cutting meat with big knives, talking and

bargaining with different people. The Brahmin Sanyasi waited till the evening

and requested the Vyadh (Butcher) to teach him. The subtle message of the story

are the following:

¡No duty is ugly, no duty is impure and duty can only be measured on the basis

of the efforts.

¡All work must be done with full dedication to the work (God)

¡By sincere and unattached performance of onefs alloted duty one can get

illumined

¡Finally, Not birth but dharma and virtuous conduct makes one a Brahmin.

I hope this answers your implied question,

With love and regards,

Happy New Year to all,

Ram Chandran

advaitin , Mahesh Ursekar <maheshursekar wrote:

>

> Pranams!

>

> I wish to suggest a fifth Yoga added to Bhakti, Jnana, Karma & Raja. It is

Aesthetic Yoga (if someone can help me with the Sanskrit term for it, I would be

much obliged).

>

> The reason for my suggestion is that I have heard that great artists in any

field - dance, music, poetry, etc - have experienced something of a " communion

with the Lord " during the heights of their performances. I believe that

followers on this path (with support of Jnana) would have the possibility of

reaching enlightenment as with any other path.

>

> I would like to point out at the outset that I think this path is different

from the Bhakti Marg as many artists do not necessarily perform to please the

Lord per se.

>

> I would like the esteemed members of the group for their views, if it so

please them.

>

> Thanks, Mahesh

>

January 3, 2010

Namaskarams to advaitinThe scriptures testified several yogas. These many yogas are to reach the ultimate. Eight yogas - Astanga yogas of Maharshi Patanjali are there. There are 18 yogas in Bhagavadgita, from Arjuna Vishada yoga to Moksha Sanyasa Yoga. Nadayoga,Rasayoga(Aesthetic) are some more. All yogas are for God realization.PranamsDr.Goli. Mahesh Ursekar <maheshursekaradvaitin Sent: Sun, January 3, 2010 12:17:32 AM A Fifth Yoga

Pranams!I wish to suggest a fifth Yoga added to Bhakti, Jnana, Karma & Raja. It is Aesthetic Yoga (if someone can help me with the Sanskrit term for it, I would be much obliged). The reason for my suggestion is that I have heard that great artists in any field - dance, music, poetry, etc - have experienced something of a "communion with the Lord" during the heights of their performances. I believe that followers on this path (with support of Jnana) would have the possibility of reaching enlightenment as with any other path.I would like to point out at the outset that I think this path is different from the Bhakti Marg as many

artists do not necessarily perform to please the Lord per se.I would like the esteemed members of the group for their views, if it so please them.Thanks, Mahesh

The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage.

January 4, 2010

Pranams Sri Rama Chandran:Thanks for your reply. I am familiar with this story but as far as I understand, it elucidates karma yoga. One might conclude that the occupation of an aesthetic e.g. a dancer might categorize him in the class of one engaged in karma. And so adopting the path of karma yoga, s/he is expected to move from selfishness to unselfishness to selflessness while doing his or her karma, in this case dance. However, if I am not mistaken, that is not what an astute dancer would necessarily do. While it would naturally happen that the artist would become selfless on self-realization, it is not due to focus on the performance on her action or karma that this would happen, but due to complete involvement in her art form. It is the art form that is responsible for her being propelled into greater heights of realization and not

how she performs her art form or karma. So a karma yogi such as a doctor would never get realization due to surgery per se but rather it would happen due to his attitude to surgery. But, an artist (or so I think) would get realization on dint of her being an artist of high caliber an not due to her attitude to her art form. While I would not deny that the attitude would necessarily become selfless on self realization, this is only a byproduct, the primary reason being her art form. The difference is subtle possibly but there is a difference as far as I can see.Thanks, Mahesh--- On Sun, 3/1/10, Ram <ramvchandran wrote:Ram <ramvchandran Re: A Fifth Yogaadvaitin Date: Sunday, 3 January, 2010, 10:50 PM

Namaste dear Mahesh:

Your comments are quite valid but there is no need to name a new yoga with another label. The great scientists, artists and poets work with a single focus on their work without any selfish desires. They will fall into the category mentioned by you. There is story in Mahabharat which illustrates the Aesthetic Yoga (proposed by you). The story is also known as Vyadha. The story describes the teachings imparted by a Vyadh (Butcher) to a Sanyasi (monk) and occurs in the Vana Parva section of Mahabharat. This story was originally narrated by Rishi Markandeya to the eldest Pandava - Yudhishra.

A brahmin sanyasi was meditating when a bird's droppings from the tree fell on him and he was disturbed. He looked at the bird and it fell dead on the ground. This adds a lot of ego and arrogance in the Sanyasi because he assumed that he has realized his innate "powers". He went to the village looking for alms and came to a house where he asked for food. The housewife inside was attending to her sick husband and asked the Sanyasi to wait. This angered the Sanyasi and he said to himsel "How dare this woman make me to wait! She did not seem to know my power yet". Suddenly he heard the voice of the housewife from inside the house: "Hei Sanyasi, don't think too much of yourself. I am not the bird who fell from the tree!." The Sanyasi was shocked and asked the lady that how did she know about the bird?

The lady replied that she did not practice any austerities and by doing her duty with "cheerfulness and wholeheartedness" she became illumined, so she could read his mind. She then told him about a dharma-vyadha (the righteous butcher) in the town of Mithila and said that the Sanyasi should take lessons from this dharma-vyadha to clear all his doubts.

But the Sanyasi was shocked and after some thoughts he took the ladyï¿½fs advice and went to Mithila. When he reaches Mithila he found the market and there saw, at a distance, a big fat Vyadha cutting meat with big knives, talking and bargaining with different people. The Brahmin Sanyasi waited till the evening and requested the Vyadh (Butcher) to teach him. The subtle message of the story are the following:

ï¿½ï¿½No duty is ugly, no duty is impure and duty can only be measured on the basis of the efforts.

ï¿½ï¿½All work must be done with full dedication to the work (God)

ï¿½ï¿½By sincere and unattached performance of oneï¿½fs alloted duty one can get illumined

ï¿½ï¿½Finally, Not birth but dharma and virtuous conduct makes one a Brahmin.

I hope this answers your implied question,

With love and regards,

Happy New Year to all,

Ram Chandran

advaitin@ s.com, Mahesh Ursekar <maheshursekar@ ...> wrote:

>

> Pranams!

>

> I wish to suggest a fifth Yoga added to Bhakti, Jnana, Karma & Raja. It is Aesthetic Yoga (if someone can help me with the Sanskrit term for it, I would be much obliged).

>

> The reason for my suggestion is that I have heard that great artists in any field - dance, music, poetry, etc - have experienced something of a "communion with the Lord" during the heights of their performances. I believe that followers on this path (with support of Jnana) would have the possibility of reaching enlightenment as with any other path.

>

> I would like to point out at the outset that I think this path is different from the Bhakti Marg as many artists do not necessarily perform to please the Lord per se.

>

> I would like the esteemed members of the group for their views, if it so please them.

>

> Thanks, Mahesh

>

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January 4, 2010

Dear Mahesh,

You have pointed out a very wonderful aspect of spiritual path.

Kanchi Mahaswamigal adviced and stressed this aspect of sadhana to a famous

bharatanatyam dancer Smt. Padma Subramanian.

A great Kashmir Saiva Siddhanta Pandita Mahamaheshwara Abhinava Gupta having

wrote beautiful works of Kashmir Saiva Philosphy has also touched this

" Aesthetic Yoga " in his famous work " Abhinavabharati " which is a gloss on the

Bharata Muni's Natya Shastra.

Bharata Muni has recognised on 8 rasas (among nava (9) rasas) whereas Abhinava

Gupta has propounded another rasa called " Shanta Rasa " . This 9th Rasa is the

basis of all the 8 rasas. All the rasas like sringara, bhibhatsa, raudra etc.

emanate from this Shanta Rasa. Infact, Shanta Rasa should be the goal all the

artists which is the Supreme bliss according to Shri Abhinava Gupta. Acharya

describes this Shanta Rasa to be the Aesthetic Bliss which is " Aloukika Ananda "

which is a Mystic Experience.

It is this " Aloukika Ananda " which the famous poet John Keats exclaims in

ecstasy as " A thing of beauty is joy for ever " .

Shri Kapali Sastry, a famous disciple of Shri Kavyakanta Ganapati Muni and Shri

Aurobindo Ghosh in his work " The quintessence of Srividya " the objective of

Tantra & Srividya is to have a glimpse of this Beauty & drink the juice of of

joy to the brim.

Thus, all the sadhana ends in Shanta Rasa.

I would suggest you to read two works of Shri Abhinava Gupta. 1) Abhinava

Bharati 2) Dhvanyaloka

regs,

sriram

advaitin , Mahesh Ursekar <maheshursekar wrote:

>

> Pranams!

>

> I wish to suggest a fifth Yoga added to Bhakti, Jnana, Karma & Raja. It is

Aesthetic Yoga (if someone can help me with the Sanskrit term for it, I would be

much obliged).

>

> The reason for my suggestion is that I have heard that great artists in any

field - dance, music, poetry, etc - have experienced something of a " communion

with the Lord " during the heights of their performances. I believe that

followers on this path (with support of Jnana) would have the possibility of

reaching enlightenment as with any other path.

>

> I would like to point out at the outset that I think this path is different

from the Bhakti Marg as many artists do not necessarily perform to please the

Lord per se.

>

> I would like the esteemed members of the group for their views, if it so

please them.

>

> Thanks, Mahesh

>

> The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage.

http://in./

>

January 4, 2010

Namaste Sri Mahesh:

Thanks for your reply with detailed explanation of your point of view and I

appreciate it very much. Each of us understand try to understand the Truth of

Vedanta using our words and terms. Unfortunately words and language alone will

not be sufficient to explain either " enlightenment " or the path of

enlightenment. At the most the scriptural texts and Mahatmas will be able to

provide some clues and each of us have to figure out a way to understand what

has been already said. Your two posts indicate that you have taken the clues and

provided your explanations. Our disagreement very likely may be with respect to

the words and terms but not necessarily in substance.

With my warm regards,

Ram Chandran

Note: If we take few moments to contemplate, we will be able to recognize that

work gets transformed into an " art " if and when the attitude of the Kartha

(work) changes According to Vedanta (my understanding) this change in attitude

will happen when the Kartha withdraws his/her identity from BMI (body, mind,

intellect) to Atman (Brahman). Yoga is the means by which he/she is able to

detach the false identity of BMI and recognize the True Divine Identity.

advaitin , Mahesh Ursekar <maheshursekar wrote:

>

> Pranams Sri Rama Chandran:

>

> Thanks for your reply. I am familiar with this story but as far as I

understand, it elucidatesÂ karma yoga. One might conclude that the occupation

of an aesthetic e.g. a dancer might categorize him in the class of one engaged

in karma. And so adopting the path of karma yoga, s/he is expected to move from

selfishness to unselfishness to selflessness while doing his or her karma, in

this case dance.

>

> However, if I am not mistaken, that is not what an astute dancer would

necessarily do. While it would naturally happen that the artist would become

selfless on self-realization, it is not due to focus on the performance on her

action or karma that this would happen, but due to complete involvement in her

art form. It is the art form that is responsible for her being propelled into

greater heights of realization and not how she performs her art form or karma.

So a karma yogi such as a doctor would never get realization due to surgery per

se but rather it would happen due to his attitude to surgery. But, an artist (or

so I think) would get realization on dint of her being an artist of high caliber

an not due to her attitude to her art form. While I would not deny that the

attitude would necessarily become selfless on self realization, this is only a

byproduct, the primary reason being her art form. The difference is subtle

possibly but there is a

> difference as far as I can see.

>

> Thanks, Mahesh

>

January 4, 2010

Dear Sriram-ji,

You have brought out some very good points.

Your post reminded me of Anandavardhana's Dhvanyaloka on which a commentary

named Lochana has been written by Abhinava Gupta. Anandavardhana says at the end

of Dhvanyaloka that the epic MahAbhArata as a whole is intended to convey the

highest human value, mokSha, when the work is regarded as a scripture, and to

delineate the sentiment of quietude, shAnta rasa, whose nature is of heightened

tranquility and happiness at the cessation of desire, as the predominant rasa or

sentiment in the work when it is regarded as a poem.

Thus shanta rasa in poetry corresponds to, and is the means to, moksha in

vedanta.

Best wishes,

S.N.Sastri

advaitin , " Venkata Sriram " <sriram_sapthasathi

wrote:

> Kanchi Mahaswamigal adviced and stressed this aspect of sadhana to a famous

bharatanatyam dancer Smt. Padma Subramanian.

>

> A great Kashmir Saiva Siddhanta Pandita Mahamaheshwara Abhinava Gupta having

wrote beautiful works of Kashmir Saiva Philosphy has also touched this

" Aesthetic Yoga " in his famous work " Abhinavabharati " which is a gloss on the

Bharata Muni's Natya Shastra.

>

> Bharata Muni has recognised on 8 rasas (among nava (9) rasas) whereas Abhinava

Gupta has propounded another rasa called " Shanta Rasa " . This 9th Rasa is the

basis of all the 8 rasas. All the rasas like sringara, bhibhatsa, raudra etc.

emanate from this Shanta Rasa. Infact, Shanta Rasa should be the goal all the

artists which is the Supreme bliss according to Shri Abhinava Gupta. Acharya

describes this Shanta Rasa to be the Aesthetic Bliss which is " Aloukika Ananda "

which is a Mystic Experience.

>

> It is this " Aloukika Ananda " which the famous poet John Keats exclaims in

ecstasy as " A thing of beauty is joy for ever " .

> regs,

> sriram

January 4, 2010

Pranams Sriram-ji:

Many Thanks for the valuable information you shared on Rasa. And for the pointers to the books of reference.

Pranams Sastri-ji:

Sri Anupam was of the opinion that adding a 'new' Yoga to the well known four is not permissible since it is not talked of in the scriptures. What is your view on that? Thanks, Mahesh--- On Mon, 4/1/10, snsastri <sn.sastri wrote:snsastri <sn.sastri Re: A Fifth Yogaadvaitin Date: Monday, 4 January, 2010, 9:58 PM

Dear Sriram-ji,

You have brought out some very good points.

Your post reminded me of Anandavardhana' s Dhvanyaloka on which a commentary named Lochana has been written by Abhinava Gupta. Anandavardhana says at the end of Dhvanyaloka that the epic MahAbhArata as a whole is intended to convey the highest human value, mokSha, when the work is regarded as a scripture, and to delineate the sentiment of quietude, shAnta rasa, whose nature is of heightened tranquility and happiness at the cessation of desire, as the predominant rasa or sentiment in the work when it is regarded as a poem.

Thus shanta rasa in poetry corresponds to, and is the means to, moksha in vedanta.

Best wishes,

S.N.Sastri

advaitin@ s.com, "Venkata Sriram" <sriram_sapthasathi wrote:

> Kanchi Mahaswamigal adviced and stressed this aspect of sadhana to a famous bharatanatyam dancer Smt. Padma Subramanian.

>

> A great Kashmir Saiva Siddhanta Pandita Mahamaheshwara Abhinava Gupta having wrote beautiful works of Kashmir Saiva Philosphy has also touched this "Aesthetic Yoga" in his famous work "Abhinavabharati" which is a gloss on the Bharata Muni's Natya Shastra.

>

> Bharata Muni has recognised on 8 rasas (among nava (9) rasas) whereas Abhinava Gupta has propounded another rasa called "Shanta Rasa". This 9th Rasa is the basis of all the 8 rasas. All the rasas like sringara, bhibhatsa, raudra etc. emanate from this Shanta Rasa. Infact, Shanta Rasa should be the goal all the artists which is the Supreme bliss according to Shri Abhinava Gupta. Acharya describes this Shanta Rasa to be the Aesthetic Bliss which is "Aloukika Ananda" which is a Mystic Experience.

>

> It is this "Aloukika Ananda" which the famous poet John Keats exclaims in ecstasy as "A thing of beauty is joy for ever".

> regs,

> sriram

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January 4, 2010

Pranams Mahesh-ji

This is my perspective.

There are no four different yogas or paths to enlightenment. Enlightenment is only through jnana. And for attainment of jnana, there are only two yogas depending on the spiritual level of the aspirant - karmayoga for those who need to develop chittashuddhi or quietude and singlepointedness of mind, and jnanayoga for those whose minds are already rendered fertile so they may receive jnAna through the Vedanta upadesha from a Acharya and devote themselves exclusively to mananam and nidhidhyasanam.

Karmayoga entails any spiritual practice that allows an individual attain chittashuddhi and chittanaischalyam - performance of one's duties in a spirit of dedication to the Lord is one of them. Hatha yoga is another. Similarly any aesthetic pursuit such as music can be a third. All of these come under karmayoga alone.

Bhakti underlies both karmayoga and jnanayoga - without devotion to the Lord, whatever term you may use for Him, no liberation is possible, as it is the Lord alone - and not any individual's effort - that confers liberation. So bhakti is not a separate yoga where one performs some action to please the Lord, like pooja, etc. but represents an intense and singlepointed devotion to the Supreme and a yearning for oneness with the same.

The "experience of communion" that you describe, where a singer for example may los himself at the height of perfection, is but a temporary resolution of the ego - where what shines forth is pure consciousness alone, unimpeded by the shadow of the ego - akin to sushupti, or samadhi - as soon as that state ends, the ahankara will rear its head once again.

Hope this clarifies.

Hari OM

Shyam

--- On Mon, 1/4/10, Mahesh Ursekar <maheshursekar wrote:

Mahesh Ursekar <maheshursekarRe: Re: A Fifth Yogaadvaitin Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 2:07 AM

Pranams Sri Rama Chandran:Thanks for your reply. I am familiar with this story but as far as I understand, it elucidates karma yoga. One might conclude that the occupation of an aesthetic e.g. a dancer might categorize him in the class of one engaged in karma. And so adopting the path of karma yoga, s/he is expected to move from selfishness to unselfishness to selflessness while doing his or her karma, in this case dance. However, if I am not mistaken, that is not what an astute dancer would necessarily do. While it would naturally happen that the artist would become selfless on self-realization, it is not due to focus on the performance on her action or karma that this would happen, but due to complete involvement in her art form. It is the art form that is responsible for her being propelled into greater heights of realization and not how she performs her art form or karma. So a karma yogi such as a doctor would

never get realization due to surgery per se but rather it would happen due to his attitude to surgery. But, an artist (or so I think) would get realization on dint of her being an artist of high caliber an not due to her attitude to her art form. While I would not deny that the attitude would necessarily become selfless on self realization, this is only a byproduct, the primary reason being her art form. The difference is subtle possibly but there is a difference as far as I can see.Thanks, Mahesh--- On Sun, 3/1/10, Ram <ramvchandran@ > wrote:

Ram <ramvchandran@ > Re: A Fifth Yogaadvaitin@ s.comSunday, 3 January, 2010, 10:50 PM

Namaste dear Mahesh:Your comments are quite valid but there is no need to name a new yoga with another label. The great scientists, artists and poets work with a single focus on their work without any selfish desires. They will fall into the category mentioned by you. There is story in Mahabharat which illustrates the Aesthetic Yoga (proposed by you). The story is also known as Vyadha. The story describes the teachings imparted by a Vyadh (Butcher) to a Sanyasi (monk) and occurs in the Vana Parva section of Mahabharat. This story was originally narrated by Rishi Markandeya to the eldest Pandava - Yudhishra. A brahmin sanyasi was meditating when a bird's droppings from the tree fell on him and he was disturbed. He looked at the bird and it fell dead on the ground. This adds a lot of ego and arrogance in the Sanyasi because he assumed that he has realized his innate "powers". He went to the village looking for alms and came to a house

where he asked for food. The housewife inside was attending to her sick husband and asked the Sanyasi to wait. This angered the Sanyasi and he said to himsel "How dare this woman make me to wait! She did not seem to know my power yet". Suddenly he heard the voice of the housewife from inside the house: "Hei Sanyasi, don't think too much of yourself. I am not the bird who fell from the tree!." The Sanyasi was shocked and asked the lady that how did she know about the bird? The lady replied that she did not practice any austerities and by doing her duty with "cheerfulness and wholeheartedness" she became illumined, so she could read his mind. She then told him about a dharma-vyadha (the righteous butcher) in the town of Mithila and said that the Sanyasi should take lessons from this dharma-vyadha to clear all his doubts.But the Sanyasi was shocked and after some thoughts he took the ladyï¿½fs advice and went to Mithila. When he reaches

Mithila he found the market and there saw, at a distance, a big fat Vyadha cutting meat with big knives, talking and bargaining with different people. The Brahmin Sanyasi waited till the evening and requested the Vyadh (Butcher) to teach him. The subtle message of the story are the following:ï¿½ï¿½No duty is ugly, no duty is impure and duty can only be measured on the basis of the efforts.ï¿½ï¿½All work must be done with full dedication to the work (God)ï¿½ï¿½By sincere and unattached performance of oneï¿½fs alloted duty one can get illuminedï¿½ï¿½Finally, Not birth but dharma and virtuous conduct makes one a Brahmin.I hope this answers your implied question,With love and regards,Happy New Year to all,Ram Chandranadvaitin@ s.com, Mahesh Ursekar <maheshursekar@ ...> wrote:>> Pranams!> > I wish to suggest a fifth Yoga added to

Bhakti, Jnana, Karma & Raja. It is Aesthetic Yoga (if someone can help me with the Sanskrit term for it, I would be much obliged). > > The reason for my suggestion is that I have heard that great artists in any field - dance, music, poetry, etc - have experienced something of a "communion with the Lord" during the heights of their performances. I believe that followers on this path (with support of Jnana) would have the possibility of reaching enlightenment as with any other path.> > I would like to point out at the outset that I think this path is different from the Bhakti Marg as many artists do not necessarily perform to please the Lord per se.> > I would like the esteemed members of the group for their views, if it so please them.> > Thanks, Mahesh>

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January 5, 2010

Note: If we take few moments to contemplate, we will be

able to recognize that work gets transformed into an " art " if

and when the attitude of the Kartha (work) changes According to Vedanta

(my understanding) this change in attitude will happen when the Kartha

withdraws his/her identity from BMI (body, mind, intellect) to Atman (Brahman).

Yoga is the means by which he/she is able to detach the false identity

of BMI and recognize the True Divine Identity.

praNAms Sri Ram prabhuji

Hare Krishna

Yes, the attitude of the kartha has to

change after doing the selfless act then only we can say the act which

the kartha performed is in the line of vedAntic sAdhana. It is a

matter of fact that each & every 'selfless' act would not qualify to

be called as vedAntic sAdhana. To say the least, a complete involvement

in 'shrungAra rasa' would not lead one to self realization, is it not??

A professional killer or a theif or a sportsperson also would do

or engage him/herself completely without any sense of individuality

at the time of discharging his/her respective duties...that does not mean

that they are doing sAdhana as prescribed in shAstra & through this

type of selfless act ultimately they will get the realization...Hence

lord krishna says yogaH karma sukaushalam...Sri Ramachandra prabhuji rightly

pointed out this very important point in the last sentence of the above

para which is worth mentioning here once again :

//quote//

Yoga is the means by which he/she is able to detach the

false identity of BMI and recognize the True Divine Identity.

//unquote//

The recognition of the 'true divine identity'

comes only through shAstra pratipAdita vedAntic sAdhana not my any other

means. nAnyapathA vidyateyanAya says shruti.

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar

January 5, 2010

Dear Mahesh-ji,

According to Madhusudana Sarasvati the first six chapters of the Gita expound

karma yoga, the second six chapters bhakti yoga and the last six chapters jnAna

yoga. Raja yoga is not considered as a separate yoga. In the expressions 'karma

yoga', etc, the word yoga is used in the sense of 'means to union, i.e., to

liberation'. Ultimately liberation is only through jnAna, but karma and bhaki

yogas are necesary to make the mind fit for jnAna. I do not know what additional

benefit will be attained by naming one more yoga. The substance is what is

important and not names.

Best wishs,

S.N.Sastri

advaitin , Mahesh Ursekar <maheshursekar wrote:

> Pranams Sastri-ji:

>

> Sri Anupam was of the opinion that adding a 'new' Yoga to the well known four

is not permissible since it is not talked of in the scriptures. What is your

view on that?

>

> Thanks, Mahesh

January 6, 2010

Namaste,I think the different 'yogas', namely the 'karma', 'bhakthi' and 'jnana', are highlighted to comfort the leanings of the personality. IMHO all three have to be present, in appropriate degrees, to receive the end result - whatever it be -physical, material, mental, emotional, devotional, spiritual.. as BG verse 7 / 22 -" sa tayA ....vihitAnhi tAn " - suggests. One can label more 'yogas' like - 'hatha', 'raja', 'budhi'.. but as Shree SNSastriji remarked - let us look at the substance and for this the three main mentioned in the 'gita' is quite sufficient.RegardsBalagopal

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January 6, 2010

Pranams Shyam-ji:Thanks for your views. I share slightly different views - I think that one cannot reach self realization based solely on one or even two yogas. An element of all yogas - bhakti, karma, jnana & raja needs to be present. While one may lean towards one Yoga due to the temperament of one's mind, one ought to have in-depth understanding of all the others too. You cannot be self realized through jnana & not know the secret of work (and I don't merely mean only intellectually but you should be able to function as a karma yogi). If as a jnani, you choose not to worship a personal God but you see God in all around you - worship THEM as God, that is purer Bhakti. The point being that the element of Bhakti should be present. However, you need not be conversant with 'Aesthetic Yoga' per se. It is a specialized path. Another path is

that of Tantra (where sex, which is traditionally to be controlled in the other Yogas, is given free reign).Thanks, Mahesh--- On Mon, 4/1/10, Shyam <shyam_md wrote:Shyam <shyam_mdRe: Re: A Fifth Yogaadvaitin Date: Monday, 4 January, 2010, 10:57 PM

Pranams Mahesh-ji

This is my perspective.

There are no four different yogas or paths to enlightenment. Enlightenment is only through jnana. And for attainment of jnana, there are only two yogas depending on the spiritual level of the aspirant - karmayoga for those who need to develop chittashuddhi or quietude and singlepointedness of mind, and jnanayoga for those whose minds are already rendered fertile so they may receive jnAna through the Vedanta upadesha from a Acharya and devote themselves exclusively to mananam and nidhidhyasanam.

Karmayoga entails any spiritual practice that allows an individual attain chittashuddhi and chittanaischalyam - performance of one's duties in a spirit of dedication to the Lord is one of them. Hatha yoga is another. Similarly any aesthetic pursuit such as music can be a third. All of these come under karmayoga alone.

Bhakti underlies both karmayoga and jnanayoga - without devotion to the Lord, whatever term you may use for Him, no liberation is possible, as it is the Lord alone - and not any individual's effort - that confers liberation. So bhakti is not a separate yoga where one performs some action to please the Lord, like pooja, etc. but represents an intense and singlepointed devotion to the Supreme and a yearning for oneness with the same.

The "experience of communion" that you describe, where a singer for example may los himself at the height of perfection, is but a temporary resolution of the ego - where what shines forth is pure consciousness alone, unimpeded by the shadow of the ego - akin to sushupti, or samadhi - as soon as that state ends, the ahankara will rear its head once again.

Hope this clarifies.

Hari OM

Shyam

--- On Mon, 1/4/10, Mahesh Ursekar <maheshursekar@ > wrote:

Mahesh Ursekar <maheshursekar@ >Re: Re: A Fifth Yogaadvaitin@ s.comMonday, January 4, 2010, 2:07 AM

Pranams Sri Rama Chandran:Thanks for your reply. I am familiar with this story but as far as I understand, it elucidates karma yoga. One might conclude that the occupation of an aesthetic e.g. a dancer might categorize him in the class of one engaged in karma. And so adopting the path of karma yoga, s/he is expected to move from selfishness to unselfishness to selflessness while doing his or her karma, in this case dance. However, if I am not mistaken, that is not what an astute dancer would necessarily do. While it would naturally happen that the artist would become selfless on self-realization, it is not due to focus on the performance on her action or karma that this would happen, but due to complete involvement in her art form. It is the art form that is responsible for her being propelled into greater heights of realization and not how she performs her art form or karma. So a karma yogi such as a doctor would

never get realization due to surgery per se but rather it would happen due to his attitude to surgery. But, an artist (or so I think) would get realization on dint of her being an artist of high caliber an not due to her attitude to her art form. While I would not deny that the attitude would necessarily become selfless on self realization, this is only a byproduct, the primary reason being her art form. The difference is subtle possibly but there is a difference as far as I can see.Thanks, Mahesh--- On Sun, 3/1/10, Ram <ramvchandran@ > wrote:

Ram <ramvchandran@ > Re: A Fifth Yogaadvaitin@ s.comSunday, 3 January, 2010, 10:50 PM

Namaste dear Mahesh:Your comments are quite valid but there is no need to name a new yoga with another label. The great scientists, artists and poets work with a single focus on their work without any selfish desires. They will fall into the category mentioned by you. There is story in Mahabharat which illustrates the Aesthetic Yoga (proposed by you). The story is also known as Vyadha. The story describes the teachings imparted by a Vyadh (Butcher) to a Sanyasi (monk) and occurs in the Vana Parva section of Mahabharat. This story was originally narrated by Rishi Markandeya to the eldest Pandava - Yudhishra. A brahmin sanyasi was meditating when a bird's droppings from the tree fell on him and he was disturbed. He looked at the bird and it fell dead on the ground. This adds a lot of ego and arrogance in the Sanyasi because he assumed that he has realized his innate "powers". He went to the village looking for alms and came to a house

where he asked for food. The housewife inside was attending to her sick husband and asked the Sanyasi to wait. This angered the Sanyasi and he said to himsel "How dare this woman make me to wait! She did not seem to know my power yet". Suddenly he heard the voice of the housewife from inside the house: "Hei Sanyasi, don't think too much of yourself. I am not the bird who fell from the tree!." The Sanyasi was shocked and asked the lady that how did she know about the bird? The lady replied that she did not practice any austerities and by doing her duty with "cheerfulness and wholeheartedness" she became illumined, so she could read his mind. She then told him about a dharma-vyadha (the righteous butcher) in the town of Mithila and said that the Sanyasi should take lessons from this dharma-vyadha to clear all his doubts.But the Sanyasi was shocked and after some thoughts he took the ladyï¿½fs advice and went to Mithila. When he reaches

Mithila he found the market and there saw, at a distance, a big fat Vyadha cutting meat with big knives, talking and bargaining with different people. The Brahmin Sanyasi waited till the evening and requested the Vyadh (Butcher) to teach him. The subtle message of the story are the following:ï¿½ï¿½No duty is ugly, no duty is impure and duty can only be measured on the basis of the efforts.ï¿½ï¿½All work must be done with full dedication to the work (God)ï¿½ï¿½By sincere and unattached performance of oneï¿½fs alloted duty one can get illuminedï¿½ï¿½Finally, Not birth but dharma and virtuous conduct makes one a Brahmin.I hope this answers your implied question,With love and regards,Happy New Year to all,Ram Chandranadvaitin@ s.com, Mahesh Ursekar <maheshursekar@ ...> wrote:>> Pranams!> > I wish to suggest a fifth Yoga added

to

Bhakti, Jnana, Karma & Raja. It is Aesthetic Yoga (if someone can help me with the Sanskrit term for it, I would be much obliged). > > The reason for my suggestion is that I have heard that great artists in any field - dance, music, poetry, etc - have experienced something of a "communion with the Lord" during the heights of their performances. I believe that followers on this path (with support of Jnana) would have the possibility of reaching enlightenment as with any other path.> > I would like to point out at the outset that I think this path is different from the Bhakti Marg as many artists do not necessarily perform to please the Lord per se.> > I would like the esteemed members of the group for their views, if it so please them.> > Thanks, Mahesh>

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January 6, 2010

pranams,

"tanyate vistaryate jnanam iti tantrah" ie., that which widens the horizons of knowledge is tantra. Tantra doesn't preach "wham bam thank you sam". If you think so, then some reconsiderations have to be done on this opinion.

Some of the westerners under the guidance of "fake gurus" are being highly misguided as far as the tantra is concerned. Of late there have been many such useless gurus who claim to be tantrics and indulge in "wine & women".

Beware such gurus and such false philosophies.

regs,

sriram--- On Wed, 6/1/10, Mahesh Ursekar <maheshursekar wrote:

Mahesh Ursekar <maheshursekarRe: A Fifth Yogaadvaitin Date: Wednesday, 6 January, 2010, 10:45 AM

Pranams Shyam-ji:Thanks for your views. I share slightly different views - I think that one cannot reach self realization based solely on one or even two yogas. An element of all yogas - bhakti, karma, jnana & raja needs to be present. While one may lean towards one Yoga due to the temperament of one's mind, one ought to have in-depth understanding of all the others too. You cannot be self realized through jnana & not know the secret of work (and I don't merely mean only intellectually but you should be able to function as a karma yogi). If as a jnani, you choose not to worship a personal God but you see God in all around you - worship THEM as God, that is purer Bhakti. The point being that the element of Bhakti should be present. However, you need not be conversant with 'Aesthetic Yoga' per se. It is a specialized path. Another path is that of Tantra (where sex, which is traditionally to be controlled in the other

Yogas, is given free reign).Thanks, Mahesh--- On Mon, 4/1/10, Shyam <shyam_md > wrote:

Shyam <shyam_md >Re: Re: A Fifth Yogaadvaitin@ s.comMonday, 4 January, 2010, 10:57 PM