Guest guest Posted January 6, 2010 Report Share Posted January 6, 2010 I wonder if any member can point me to some references in the Upanishads, Gaudapada or Shankara which advise that one should not actively attempt to tell people about advaita unless they are ‘ready’ for that knowledge and specifically looking for it. I’m sure I have come across some words from Shankara to this effect but cannot immediately locate them.SES (School of Economic Science, where I first heard about this teaching long ago) always insisted that it was actually ‘dangerous’ to impart this knowledge to those who were not yet ready. Best wishes, Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2010 Report Share Posted January 6, 2010 Dear Denni-ji Pranams. Lord Krishna in the Gita cautions about who this teaching should be imparted to and Bhagwan Shankara glosses as follows: ....now after that, the Lord states the rules for handing down the Scripture: 18:67. This (that I have taught) you should not ever be taught to one who is devoid of austerities and to one who is not a devotee; also, neither to one who does not render service, nor as well to one who cavils at Me. Idam, this Scripture; which has been taught by Me te, to you, for your good, for terminating mundane existence; an vacyam, should not be taught; atapaskaya, to one who is devoid of austerities. It should kadacana, never, under any condition whatsoever; be taught abhaktaya, to one who is not a devotee, who is devoid of devotion to his teacher and God, even if he be a man of austerity. Neither should it be taught even asurusave, to one who does not redner service-even though he may be a devotee and a man of austerity. Na ca, nor as well; to him yah, who; abhyasuyati, cavils; mam, at Me, at Vasudeva-thinking that I am an ordinary person; to him who, not knowing My Godhood, imputes self-adulation etc. to Me and cannot tolerate Me. He too is unfit; to him also it should not be imparted. From the force of the context it is understood that the Scripture should be taught to one who has devotion to the Lord, is austere, renders service, and does not cavil. As to that, since it is seen (in a Smrti)-'to one who is intelligent or to one who is austere'-that there is an option between the two, it follows that this should be imparted either to an austere person given to service and devotion, or to an intelligent person endowed with them. It should not be imparted to an austere or even an intelligent person if he lacks service and devotion. It should not be taught to one who cavils at the Lord, even though he be possessed of all the good qualities. And it should be taught to one whoserves his teacher and is devout. This is the rule for transmitting the Scripture. Hari OM Shyam --- On Wed, 1/6/10, Dennis Waite <dwaite wrote: Dennis Waite <dwaite Proselytizing"Advaitin (AT) (DOT) Com" <advaitin >Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 1:31 PM I wonder if any member can point me to some references in the Upanishads, Gaudapada or Shankara which advise that one should not actively attempt to tell people about advaita unless they are ‘ready’ for that knowledge and specifically looking for it. I’m sure I have come across some words from Shankara to this effect but cannot immediately locate them.SES (School of Economic Science, where I first heard about this teaching long ago) always insisted that it was actually ‘dangerous’ to impart this knowledge to those who were not yet ready. Best wishes, Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 Dennis - PraNAms Krishna tells in 18th Ch. that this brahma vidya should not be taught to everyone. He provides the qualifications of the student to whom this can be taught. Hari Om! Sadananda --- On Wed, 1/6/10, Dennis Waite <dwaite wrote: Dennis Waite <dwaite Proselytizing " Advaitin (AT) (DOT) Com " <advaitin > Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 1:31 PM  I wonder if any member can point me to some references in the Upanishads, Gaudapada or Shankara which advise that one should not actively attempt to tell people about advaita unless they are ‘ready’ for that knowledge and specifically looking for it. I’m sure I have come across some words from Shankara to this effect but cannot immediately locate them.SES (School of Economic Science, where I first heard about this teaching long ago) always insisted that it was actually ‘dangerous’ to impart this knowledge to those who were not yet ready.  Best wishes, Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 Namaste, Brahmasutra Bhashya, the very first sutra emphasizes the qualifications while explaining the words atha ataH brahmajij~nAsA . advaitinBrahmasuutra%20Notes/ [see the Folder : BSB Notes - K.Sadananda.PDF Brahma Sutra Bhashya Notes - K. Sadananda ] Vivekachudamani, verses 14-20 also elaborate on this. Regards, Sunder advaitin , kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada wrote: >> > --- On Wed, 1/6/10, Dennis Waite <dwaite wrote: > > > Dennis Waite <dwaite > Proselytizing > " Advaitin (AT) (DOT) Com " <advaitin > > Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 1:31 PM > > > I wonder if any member can point me to some references in the Upanishads, Gaudapada or Shankara which advise that one should not actively attempt to tell people about advaita unless they are ‘ready’ for that knowledge and specifically looking for it. I’m sure I have come across some words from Shankara to this effect but cannot immediately locate them.SES (School of Economic Science, where I first heard about this teaching long ago) always insisted that it was actually ‘dangerous’ to impart this knowledge to those who were not yet ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 Dear Sri Dennis-ji, Namaste. The " atha " word itself in the Brahmasutra 1.1.1 points out the same. Sri Shankara in his bhasya says that " atha " means " afterwards " that is, after the attainment of the four fold qualifications. The implied meaning is " not before the attainment of the four fold qualifications " . All the scriptures (especially prakaraNa grantas), which talk about these four-fold qualifications; Those who are endowed with these four-fold qualifications are the competent persons in pursuit of the said matter. In Katha Upanishad: There is a beautiful introduction given by Sri Shankara for the verse (1.1.20) " yeyam prete vicikitsa manushye... " He says: " ...dvitiiya vara praptya api akritaartatvam tritiiya vara gocharam aatmajnaanam antareNa iti aakhyaayikayaa prapanchayati. yataH puurvasmaat karma gocharaat saadhya-saadhana-lakshanaat, anityaat viraktasya aatmajnaane adhikaaraH... " That is: " ... even after getting the first two boons (one for the welfare of his father and the other the vidya through which one can enjoy heaven for a time), without the Self-Knowledge, one does not get satisfied. This is being stated by this story. He is the competent person for Self-Knowledge, who relinquishes the ephemeral which are attainable through action (or of the form of action and its result). " There are many more such instances. With regards, Anupam. > I wonder if any member can point me to some references in the Upanishads, Gaudapada or Shankara which advise that one should not actively attempt to tell people about advaita unless they are ‘ready’ for that knowledge and specifically looking for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 > > --- On Wed, 1/6/10, Dennis Waite <dwaite@> wrote: > > > > > > Dennis Waite <dwaite@> > > Proselytizing > > " Advaitin (AT) (DOT) Com " <advaitin > > > Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 1:31 PM > > > > > > I wonder if any member can point me to some references in the Upanishads, Gaudapada or Shankara which advise that one should not actively attempt to tell people about advaita unless they are ‘ready’ for that knowledge and specifically looking for it. I’m sure I have come across some words from Shankara to this effect but cannot immediately locate them.SES (School of Economic Science, where I first heard about this teaching long ago) always insisted that it was actually ‘dangerous’ to impart this knowledge to those who were not yet ready. > Namaste. Sage Vasishtha says: ajnasya ardha-prabuddhasya sarvam brahmeti yo vadet . mahaa-niraya-jaaleShu sa tena viniyojitaH .(Yoga VAsishTha) // He who preaches to the ignorant and the half-learned that everything is Brahman, verily entangles him in a mesh of horrible hells. // There is another verse, slightly in a different context: sAmsArika-sukhAsaktam aham bramheti vAdinam. karma-brahmobhaya-bhraShTam taM tyajet antyajam yathaa. A rough translation: Someone who is indulgent in worldly pleasures but proclaims 'I am Brahman' is actually fallen from both the path of karma (yoga) and jnana (yoga). He is to be rejected as someone who is unworthy of being associated with. (the source of this verse is not known) In the Bhagavadgita bhashya Shankara has said that Arjuna is not fit to receive the Vedantic teaching of jnana yoga since he is not yet an adhikAri. Om Tat Sat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 Namaste,-Krishna tells in 18th Ch. that this brahma vidya... Also remember the Bhagavan's words in BG verse 18/67 -"ida.n te.... yo.abhyasUyati" - is said without a trace of prejudice. HH Swami Chinmayanadaji continues -" it is equivalent to saying - PLEASE DO NOT SOW SEEDS ON ROCKS - for, the sower will never be able to reap, as nothing can grow on rocks.RegardsBalagopal The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 praNAms Shri Dennis-ji, [i have seen that members more learned than me have replied, but here is mine.] advaitin , " Dennis Waite " <dwaite wrote: > > I wonder if any member can point me to some references in the Upanishads, > Gaudapada or Shankara which advise that one should not actively attempt to > tell people about advaita unless they are 'ready' for that knowledge and > specifically looking for it. I'm sure I have come across some words from > Shankara to this effect but cannot immediately locate them.SES (School of > Economic Science, where I first heard about this teaching long ago) always > insisted that it was actually 'dangerous' to impart this knowledge to > those who were not yet ready. According to my understanding, there is no other means for a guru to impart vedantic knowledge to a shishya, other than my seeing his dispassion to the world. Shankara, when introducing Chapter 15 of gItA (which He concludes, saying that it is is the summum-bonum of all vedanta), says " viraktasya hi saMsaaraat.h bhagavattatvaj~naane adhikaaraH\, na anyasyeti " meaning " The competence for the knowledge of the nature of God is only his who has become detached from the world; not of any other " . Hope this helps! praNAmaH to all advaitins Ramakrishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 Dear Dennis-ji, Namaste. Mundaka Upanishad talks about the qualifications of the Spiritual Teacher as well as the Aspirant. Please see 1.2.12 and 1.2.13 of the same Upanishad. Thanks and regards, Anupam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 My sincere thanks to all who responded to this request. The group really is the most wonderful source of Vedantic wisdom and we are all fortunate indeed to be able to participate. Best wishes, Dennis advaitin [advaitin ] On Behalf Of anupam srivatsav 07 January 2010 14:37 advaitin Re: Proselytizing Dear Dennis-ji, Namaste. Mundaka Upanishad talks about the qualifications of the Spiritual Teacher as well as the Aspirant. Please see 1.2.12 and 1.2.13 of the same Upanishad. Thanks and regards, Anupam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 Namaste, Mudgala Upanishad quote: etatpurushhasuuktaarthamatirahasyaM raajaguhyaM devaguhyaM guhyaadapi guhyataraM naadiikshitaayopadishet.h . naanuuchaanaaya . naayaj~nashiilaaya . naavaishhNavaaya . naayogine . na bahubhaashhiNe . naapriyavaadine . naasa.nvatsaravedine . naatushhTaaya . naanadhiitavedaayopadishet.h . http://sanskritdocuments.org/doc_1_index.html " Therefore one should not impart to an uninitiated person this Purusha-sukta which is a secret, nor to one who does not know the Vedas, a non-sacrificer, a non-Vaishnava, non-Yogin, a talkative person, a harsh talker, one who takes more than a year to learn, the discontented. " ... http://www.celextel.org/108upanishads/mudgala.html Regards, Sunder advaitin , anupam srivatsav <anupam.srivatsav wrote: > > Dear Dennis-ji, > Namaste. > > Mundaka Upanishad talks about the qualifications of the Spiritual > Teacher as well as the Aspirant. Please see 1.2.12 and 1.2.13 of the > same Upanishad. > > Thanks and regards, > Anupam. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 Namaste,A balanced mind with immense sense of strength and fairness sprung from wisdom is a requirement.( BG verse 2 / 15 - "ya.n hi na...... kalpate"). RegardsBalagopal The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 Namaste Shri Dennis, In reply to your posting #47269, another reference would be the Shvetashvatara Upanishad, stanza 6.22: vedAnte paramaM guhyam purAkalpe pracoditam nAprashAntAya dAtavyam nAputrAyAshiShAya vA punaH . [The highest secret in Vedanta, as declared in a past age, must not be given out to one who does not come to peace, who's not a son or a disciple.] Ananda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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