Gita Satsangh Chapter 16 Verses 19 & 20

[Guest guest]

Dandavat pranams to all!

 

 

Tasmaat shaastram pramaanam te kaaryaakaaryavyavasthitau; Jnaatwaa shaastravidhaanoktam karma kartumihaarhasi. Therefore, let the scripture be the authority in determining what ought to be done and what ought not to be done. Having known what is said in the ordinance of the scriptures, thou shouldst act here in this world. (BG 16.24)Gita Satsangh Chapter 16 Verses 19 & 20To listen to Swami Brahmanananda of the Chinmaya Mission chanting this Chapter...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B50lu0Oilak & feature=related

 

Taanaham dwishatah krooraan samsaareshu naraadhamaan; Kshipaamyajasram ashubhaan aasureeshweva yonishu. 19. These cruel haters, the worst among men in the world,—I hurl all these evil-doers for ever into the wombs of demons only.

Sankara Bhashya (Swami Gambiranda's Translation and Commentary)19. I cast for ever those hateful, cruel, evil-doers in the worlds, the vilest of human beings, verily into the demoniacal classes. Because of their defect of unrighteousness, aham, I; ksipami, cast, hurl; ajasram, for ever; all tan, those; who are dvisatah, hateful of Me; kruran, cruel; and asubhan, who are evil doers; samsaresu, in the worlds-who are on the paths leading to hell; who are the nara-adhaman, vilest of human beings, who are opposed to the right path, who are hostile to the pious people; eva, verily; asurisu, into the demoniacal; yonisu, classes-tigers, loins, etc., which are full of evil deeds. The verb cast is to be connected with 'into the classes'.Swami Chinmayananda's Translation and Commentary

THE FALL IN EVOLUTION SUFFERED BY SUCH THOUGHTLESS MATERIALISTS AS A RESULT OF THEIR OWN FALSE VALUES AND FOUL ACTIONS IS BEING TRACED IN THE FOLLOWING STANZAS:

 

19. These cruel haters, worst among men in the world, I hurl these evil-doers for ever into the wombs of the demons only. Specimens of the 'Diabolically Fallen' type of men are characterised here, in a spirit of loving despair by the Lord, "AS THE MOST DEGRADED OF MEN IN THIS WORLD. THEY ARE MALICIOUS AND CRUEL" --- malicious against the dignity of themselves, and cruel to the living beings around. They are, says the Lord, "THROWN BY ME PERPETUALLY INTO THE WOMBS OF DEMONS." Here Krishna is identifying Himself with the 'Law' of Action and Reaction --- wrong action leaves wrong tendencies behind, and, propelled by such negative tendencies, the personality in an individual, after his death in this physical structure, demands an appropriate field of existence. An Asuric individual should necessarily discover his fulfilment only in an Asuric environment. Therefore the 'Law' of Action and Reaction orders that such cruel men, again and again, reach similar wombs until the sheer horror of their experiences brings home to them a sudden realisation of the follies and futilities in following such a low tempo of life. The idea of reincarnation suggested herein has already been exhaustively discussed earlier in our discourses (VIII-6).

 

[bG 8.6. Whosoever, at the end, leaves the body, thinking of any being, to that being only he goes, O Kaunteya (O son of Kunti) , because of his constant thought of that being.

Declaring this well-thought-out conclusion of the Rishis, the Self-dedicated thinkers of India, the Lord says "WHATEVER OBJECT ONE REMEMBERS WHILE LEAVING THE BODY, THAT ALONE IS REACHED BY HIM" --- be it a dog or a god. "As you think so you become" is a theory which is obvious to every intelligent man even without an explanation from any philosopher. Thoughts guide all actions, and at any given moment the run of thoughts in an individual is governed and ordered by the channel of thinking, which he himself has ploughed in his bosom with his conscious and wilful thoughts and actions in the past. Naturally, therefore, a mental equipment that has been struggling during its existence in an embodiment to detach from all its identifications with that embodiment, and to fix itself in the contemplation of the Real and the Eternal, would be creating new channels of divine aspirations (Adhyatma Samskaras). The time of death, when the occupant of the body has packed up to quit, is not the moment to decide or to plan the travel. At such a moment, instinctively, its thoughts would run through its habitual channels, and the flight of thoughts at that moment would determine the direction of the ego's pilgrimage. ]

 

Aasureem yonimaapannaa moodhaa janmani janmani; Maamapraapyaiva kaunteya tato yaantyadhamaam gatim. 20. Entering into demoniacal wombs and deluded birth after birth, not attaining Me, they thus fall, O Arjuna, into a condition still lower than that!

 

Sankara Bhashya (Swami Gambiranda's Translation and Commentary)20. Being born among the demoniacal species in births after births, the fools, without ever reaching Me, O son of Kunti, attain conditions lower than that. Apannah, being born, having acquired; (births) asurim, among the demoniacal; yonim, species; janmani janmani, in births after births; the mudhah, fools, non-discriminating ones; being born in every birth into species in which tamas prevails, and going downwards, aprapya eva, without ever reaching, approaching; mam, Me, who am God; O son of Kunti, yanti, they attain; gatim, conditions; tatah adhamam, lower even than that. Since there is not the least possibility of attaining Me, what is implied by saying, 'without ever reaching Me', is, 'by not attaining the virtuous path enjoined by Me.' Swami Chinmayananda's Translation and Commentary

 

 

CONTINUING:

 

20. Entering into demoniacal wombs, and deluded, not attaining to Me, birth after birth, they thus fall, O Kaunteya, into a condition still lower than that. Tracing the line of fall of an Asura type of man, Krishna says that an individual having repeatedly reached, as a result of his previous life, the same Asuric environment, life after life, fails to realise the Infinite joys of the Self. They never climb the heights of cultural beauty but slowly sink lower and lower to reach the bottom grades of beings. So far we had a vivid review of two types of men: the 'DIVINELY GOOD' and the 'DIABOLICALLY FALLEN.' A majority of us, in varying degrees, belong to the latter class. As a spiritual seeker is never satisfied merely with the theoretical explanations and descriptions, Krishna now advises the entire mankind, through Arjuna, on how even he who has fallen so hopelessly to the Asura level, can learn to climb up and steadily progress in his spiritual evolution. None is eternally condemned, nor does anyone deserve a perpetual hell --- such a view is illogical, unphilosophic, and stupid. DESCRIBING THE TECHNIQUE OF HASTENING ONE'S EVOLUTION, THE DIVINE CHARIOTEER SAYS:

 

to be continued....

 

 

Hare Krishna!!!

[Guest guest]

Namaste Satsanghis:

 

Before I state my observations on these two important verses, I just want to say

few words to the fellow seekers. The purpose of this Cyber Satsangh is to

exchange our views, understanding and the relevance of Gita to our life.

Satsangh or study groups provide us an opportunity to clear and enhance our

understanding of the scriptures and also will motivate us to adopt the lessons

into our daily life. I have been participating in Satsanghs and I have

benefitted greatly by participating and meeting like minded people. Each of us

have god-given talents and we should share what we know with the fellow seekers

of Truth. The simple rule, " Give more than what we take " is quite useful and

also practical. Please join the Satsangh and share your thoughts in this very

friendly group of Satsanghis. Swami Chinmayananda used to say, " the question

that has never been asked is the most silly question! " He is quite right, and

let us take few moments of our time to express our views.

 

Bhagawan Sri Krishna through these verses force us to think on the consequences

of possessing Devlish qualities. When a good person enters into a downward path

and entertains HATE and CRUELTY then for such a person there will no possibility

for returning back. It is like falling into the Black-Hole and those who fall

can never return! History has provide us with substantial evidence to What

Bhagawan states through these verses. We have seen, Hitler, Idi Amin and more

recently Sadam Hussein and others who fall into this category of cruel haters,

the worst among men in the world.

The bottom line of the message is quite simple and powerful:

We have two choices available:

 

(1) We have the option to choose the upward path by acquiring the Divine

Qualities which will ultimately take us to Liberation – by knowing our True

Nature.

 

(2) The other options to move on the downward path by becoming Cruel and Hate

which will ultimately get us trapped with no means to return!

 

The purpose of the Satsangh is to contemplate on the Truth spoken by the Lord

and recognize the importance and significance of Love and Compassion!

 

With my warmest regards,

Ram Chandran

 

 

advaitin , " Radhe " <shaantih wrote:

>

>

> Gita Satsangh Chapter 16 Verses 19 & 20

>

>

> Taanaham dwishatah krooraan samsaareshu naraadhamaan;

> Kshipaamyajasram ashubhaan aasureeshweva yonishu.

 

> 19. These cruel haters, the worst among men in the world,-I hurl all these

evil-doers for ever into the wombs of demons only.

>

Aasureem yonimaapannaa moodhaa janmani janmani;

> Maamapraapyaiva kaunteya tato yaantyadhamaam gatim.

 

> 20. Entering into demoniacal wombs and deluded birth after birth, not

attaining Me, they thus fall, O Arjuna, into a condition still lower than that!

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Shri Ramji:

 

Dandavat Pranams!!!

 

As I put together the post for today, I could not help but notice that there was a qualitative difference in the interpretations provided by Swami Gambiranda and Swami Chinmayananda. Although the translations use terminology such as forever and perpetual (which is a long time :-), Swami Chinmayananda seems to suggest that there is chance for a way out, when he says...

 

"Therefore the 'Law' of Action and Reaction orders that such cruel men, again and again, reach similar wombs until the sheer horror of their experiences brings home to them a sudden realisation of the follies and futilities in following such a low tempo of life. The idea of reincarnation suggested herein has already been exhaustively discussed earlier in our discourses (VIII-6). "

 

He also says a bit later that...

 

"So far we had a vivid review of two types of men: the 'DIVINELY GOOD' and the 'DIABOLICALLY FALLEN.' A majority of us, in varying degrees, belong to the latter class. As a spiritual seeker is never satisfied merely with the theoretical explanations and descriptions, Krishna now advises the entire mankind, through Arjuna, on how even he who has fallen so hopelessly to the Asura level, can learn to climb up and steadily progress in his spiritual evolution. None is eternally condemned, nor does anyone deserve a perpetual hell --- such a view is illogical, unphilosophic, and stupid." This would also be born out in some scriptural stories; eg, Ravana, as bad as he was, was actually saved in the end, was he not? Valmiki is another example. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valmiki I am not raising this point to suggest that one should be self indulgent in the hope of divine rescue, but to illustrate that the mercy of the Lord includes even the worst of men, when and if the time comes through the operation of Grace. And, as hard as it may sometimes be, while not wanting to invite them to lunch, to feel compassion towards those who have fallen so low as those you describe in your post.

 

Yet, the wording in the verses in some translations is quite specifically "forever" and "perpetual" and your post seems to imply as much. Is there some other meaning to be given to these terms to make sense of and to reconcile them with the operation of Divine Grace which seems to be there to save even the worst of us, bearing the spark of Divinity as our very essence?

 

In HIs Service,

 

Radhe

 

---------------------------

 

The purpose of the Satsangh is to contemplate on the Truth spoken by the Lord and recognize the importance and significance of Love and Compassion!With my warmest regards,Ram Chandran

[Guest guest]

In advaitin , " Ram " <ramvchandran wrote:

>

> " When a good person enters into a downward path and entertains HATE and CRUELTY

then for such a person there will no possibility for returning back. It is like

falling into the Black-Hole and those who fall can never return! "

 

Namaste Dear Ramji,

 

As per my understanding, the idea of an Eternal Hell with no return cannot

equate with the philosophical tenants of Advaita, since only Atman is eternal.

(And when we say eternal we are only defining it from the point of view of time,

the correct approach will be timeless).

 

The Jiva being weaved with the threads of Maya at its very core, may be

beginningless, but it definitely has an end when the understanding dawns that it

never had independent existence from the Whole in the first place (because

mythia).

 

This is one of the main differences between the Sanatana Dharma with the Law of

Karma and the Roman Catholic approach of " eternal " soul damnation in an

" eternal " Hell. Such eternal Hell would mean that only papas were created and as

they are exhausted only more papas are created, which in itself contradicts the

Law of Karma itself.

 

I understand Bhagavan's verse as implying an " unimaginable long time " for these

papas to be exhausted, that from our limited view will appear as almost

" eternal " , plus the fact that being " embodied " in an inferior realm means not

having the capacity, through free will, to reverse the situation... Who would

want to suffer such a terrible and oppressive amount of time exhausting papas?

 

And by the way, the same applies to Heaven also...

 

Pranams,

Mouna

[Guest guest]

Hari Om,The idea that Swamiji says in his commentary on "how the Asuric tendencies are given up" was very convincing. He says "The sheer horror of their experiences bring home the sudden realization of the Follies...". How does this realization dawn?IMO, that is the divine intervention. Based on one's previous karmas and degree of the Asuric tendencies, the realization may dawn in different ways:1. One may realize after experiencing the affects of those actions ; 2. Or one may realize through Reflection/Introspection/Vichara. But if Asuric tendencies are very strong, introspection will not take place. Even if it takes place, the conclusions will be wrong (becuase Tamas clouds intellect)3. Or as Radheji mentioned below in case of Valmiki it was

Narada's appearance to make him realize the follies.I also think, it is possible that these "Asuric tendencies" might lead the birth into animals. As animals, one experiences the tendencies without attaining new ones. Once fullfilled in those life forms, they come back to human form and then again have different ways to get rid of the remaining ones.Regards,NageshRadhe <shaantihadvaitin Sent: Sun, January 10, 2010 6:42:25 PMRe: Re: Gita Satsangh Chapter 16 Verses 19 & 20

 

 

 

Dear Shri Ramji:

 

Dandavat Pranams!!!

 

As I put together the post for today, I could not help but notice that there was a qualitative difference in the interpretations provided by Swami Gambiranda and Swami Chinmayananda. Although the translations use terminology such as forever and perpetual (which is a long time :-), Swami Chinmayananda seems to suggest that there is chance for a way out, when he says...

 

"Therefore the 'Law' of Action and Reaction orders that such cruel men, again and again, reach similar wombs until the sheer horror of their experiences brings home to them a sudden realisation of the follies and futilities in following such a low tempo of life. The idea of reincarnation suggested herein has already been exhaustively discussed earlier in our discourses (VIII-6). "

 

He also says a bit later that...

 

"So far we had a vivid review of two types of men: the 'DIVINELY GOOD' and the 'DIABOLICALLY FALLEN.' A majority of us, in varying degrees, belong to the latter class. As a spiritual seeker is never satisfied merely with the theoretical explanations and descriptions, Krishna now advises the entire mankind, through Arjuna, on how even he who has fallen so hopelessly to the Asura level, can learn to climb up and steadily progress in his spiritual evolution. None is eternally condemned, nor does anyone deserve a perpetual hell --- such a view is illogical, unphilosophic, and stupid." This would also be born out in some scriptural stories; eg, Ravana, as bad as he was, was actually saved in the end, was he not? Valmiki is another example. http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Valmiki I am not raising this point to suggest that one should be self indulgent in the hope of divine rescue, but to illustrate that the mercy of the Lord includes even the worst of men, when and if the time comes through the operation of Grace. And, as hard as it may sometimes be, while not wanting to invite them to lunch, to feel compassion towards those who have fallen so low as those you describe in your post.

 

Yet, the wording in the verses in some translations is quite specifically "forever" and "perpetual" and your post seems to imply as much. Is there some other meaning to be given to these terms to make sense of and to reconcile them with the operation of Divine Grace which seems to be there to save even the worst of us, bearing the spark of Divinity as our very essence?

 

In HIs Service,

 

Radhe

 

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---

 

The purpose of the Satsangh is to contemplate on the Truth spoken by the Lord and recognize the importance and significance of Love and Compassion!With my warmest regards,Ram Chandran

[Guest guest]

> " When a good person enters into a downward path

and entertains HATE and CRUELTY then for such a person there will no possibility

for returning back. It is like falling into the Black-Hole and those who

fall can never return! "

 

Namaste Dear Ramji,

 

As per my understanding, the idea of an Eternal Hell with no return cannot

equate with the philosophical tenants of Advaita, since only Atman is eternal.

(And when we say eternal we are only defining it from the point of view

of time, the correct approach will be timeless).

praNAms Sri Mouna prabhuji

Hare Krishna

After long time seeing your mail!! how are you prabhuji

??

I am not following geeta thread, hence, I donot know

what Sri Ramachandra prabhuji exactly said on this particular point. Since

I've seen your name in the list after long time, I read this mail.

IMO, being a staunch advaitin, Sri rAmachandra prabhuji

too would be of the same opinion as yours. In all probability, he

does not intend to propagate the theory of andha tamas / eternal hell &

permanent residents of it!! 'Eternal Hell' is the mind baby of our tattvavAdi

(dvaitins) prabhuji-s, for which there is no legitimate place in vedAnta

in general & advaita in particular:-)). So, I hope, as you mentioned

at the end, Sri rAmachandra prabhuji too would be saying here about the

'long stay' in hell or heaven...But I am bit surprised to read Sri Rama

prabhuji's example of black hole & his statements such as :'there is

no possibility of return', 'can never return'etc. which do give us

the impression that he is saying something in favour of 'permanent andha

tamas' & eternal citizens of this den :-))

Anyway, I am sure Sri rama prabhuji would reply to

you appropriately.

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar

[Guest guest]

--- On Mon, 1/11/10, carlosartista2000 <fineart wrote:

 

 

This is one of the main differences between the Sanatana Dharma with the Law of

Karma and the Roman Catholic approach of " eternal " soul damnation in an

" eternal " Hell. Such eternal Hell would mean that only papas were created and as

they are exhausted only more papas are created, which in itself contradicts the

Law of Karma itself.

---------

Mouna - PraNAms

 

If I understand correctly there is a hierarchy in the souls according Madhva

dviata. Some are destined to eternal hell as per their nature. Hence eternal

hell is not exclusive to catholic approach.

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

[Guest guest]

In advaitin , kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada wrote:

>

> If I understand correctly there is a hierarchy in the souls according Madhva

dviata. Some are destined to eternal hell as per their nature. Hence eternal

hell is not exclusive to catholic approach.

 

Pranams Sadanandaji,

 

Thank you for the correction, I should have said Advaita Vedanta instead of

Sanatana Dharma... apparently Hell is a bigger misconception than I thought...

 

Regards,

Mouna

[Guest guest]

Dear Mouna-ji,

Verses 19 and 20 speak of those persons who continue to be evil in birth after

birth and make no attempt to improve their conduct. Such persons cannot progress

spiritually. In every birth they have the opportunity to improve their conduct,

but they do not take advantage of it. This is different from the Roman Catholic

view according to which a person has only one birth and if he does not make use

of it properly he is doomed to eternal damnation.

According to the Gita even such a person is not doomed for ever. He can improve

his conduct in some birth and advance spiritually. This is where free will comes

in. Gita 9. 30 and 31 say that even a person of the vilest character can improve

if he develops devotion to God. No one is condemned for ever.

 

Best wishes,

S.N.Sastri

 

 

advaitin , " carlosartista2000 " <fineart wrote:

> Namaste Dear Ramji,

>

> As per my understanding, the idea of an Eternal Hell with no return cannot

equate with the philosophical tenants of Advaita, since only Atman is eternal.

(And when we say eternal we are only defining it from the point of view of time,

the correct approach will be timeless).

>

> The Jiva being weaved with the threads of Maya at its very core, may be

beginningless, but it definitely has an end when the understanding dawns that it

never had independent existence from the Whole in the first place (because

mythia).

>

> This is one of the main differences between the Sanatana Dharma with the Law

of Karma and the Roman Catholic approach of " eternal " soul damnation in an

" eternal " Hell. Such eternal Hell would mean that only papas were created and as

they are exhausted only more papas are created, which in itself contradicts the

Law of Karma itself.

> Pranams,

> Mouna

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste Mounaji:

 

Good to see you back by contributing your view points. Already Sastriji,

Sadaji, Nageshji and Bhaskarj have provided their observations with respect to

yours' and Radheji's doubts. Purely on theoretical ground that one can exhaust

the vasanas and get back to the mainstream and attain self-realization. But we

should take account of the context of these verses and contemplate on why Lord

makes those strong statements. Let me try to explain my observations:

The purpose of Gita Satsangh is to provide opportunity for seekers to meet and

associate with fellow seekers and help all to make wise decisions by exchanging

one's own experiences in life. In this sense, the purpose is help the

Satsanghis to deal with day to day problems (vyavaharika level) of life. Gita

has multiple utilities - first as a philosophical reference text, second as a

manual to help and guide day to day decisions (manual of human life) and third

as a psychological counselor to reduce stress. In the Satsangh format the

discussions should include all the three aspects.

 

With the above understanding, I believe that the Lord sincerely warns us the

potential consequences of evil (giving pain sufferings to all others including

the actor) acts. What has been portrayed is the worst case scenario and with

those strong statements Lord tries His level best to stop us in undertaking any

evil act. It is like the parents and (good teachers) threaten the children with

severe punishments to discipline them but at the same time show lots of

compassion later to help them understand their true intent!

In the real life those get into habits such as smoking, drinking, addicting to

drugs and gambling find it very difficult to get rid of those habits. Very few

do succeed but a vast majority got trapped without any relief. These are facts

of life that we have been observing and the lesson that we learn will prevent us

not to try those habits if we want to safeguard our life.

 

Swamiji (Chinmayanandaji) has quoted the verse 6 of Chapter 8 in Gita:

 

Yam yam vaapi smaran bhaavam tyajatyante kalevaram;

Tam tamevaiti kaunteya sadaa tadbhaavabhaavitah.

 

6. Whosoever at the end leaves the body, thinking of any being, to that being

only does he go, O son of Kunti (Arjuna), because of his constant thought of

that being!

 

Since the most prominent thought of one's life occupies the mind at the time of

death which determines the nature of the body to be attained in the next birth.

The person who practices cruelty and hate will likely be thinking (remembering)

cruelty at the time of death and consequently will likely born again possessing

the same qualities.

 

The secret of reaching the Divine Being and thus freeing oneself forever from

birth and death and the pains and sufferings of this earth-life, is to

constantly practice unbroken remembrance of the Lord at all times, in all places

and even amidst one's daily activities. If one practices such steady remembrance

through regular daily Sadhana, then such persons will be rooted in His

remembrance even at the time of departing from this body at death. Thus

departing, such a person will go beyond darkness and bondage and attain the

realm of eternal blessedness. Hence the best insurance policy is to keep the

Divine and evict the Devil from one's heart for every.

 

Bhagawan Sri Krishna also hints that the worst among all sinners will be able to

get relief through Verse 36 of Chapter 4:

Api chedasi paapebhyah sarvebhyah paapakrittamah;

Sarvam jnaanaplavenaiva vrijinam santarishyasi.

36. Even if you art the most sinful of all sinners, yet you shall verily cross

all sins by the raft of knowledge. By this statement He confirms that one can

overcome sin through Self-knowledge.

 

I am glad to see larger participation and let us keep going by participating and

contributing.

 

With my warm regards,

 

Ram Chandran

 

advaitin , " carlosartista2000 " <fineart wrote:

>

> In advaitin , " Ram " <ramvchandran@> wrote:

> >

> > " When a good person enters into a downward path and entertains HATE and

CRUELTY then for such a person there will no possibility for returning back. It

is like falling into the Black-Hole and those who fall can never return! "

>

> Namaste Dear Ramji,

>

> As per my understanding, the idea of an Eternal Hell with no return cannot

equate with the philosophical tenants of Advaita, since only Atman is eternal.

(And when we say eternal we are only defining it from the point of view of time,

the correct approach will b

[Guest guest]

In advaitin , " Ram " <ramvchandran wrote:

>

Verse 36 of Chapter 4:

> Api chedasi paapebhyah sarvebhyah paapakrittamah;

> Sarvam jnaanaplavenaiva vrijinam santarishyasi.

> 36. Even if you art the most sinful of all sinners, yet you shall verily cross

all sins by the raft of knowledge. By this statement He confirms that one can

overcome sin through Self-knowledge.

 

 

Dear Ramji, Pranams

 

Thank you for clarifying your view on this point, allowing us to know the

intention behind your statements.

 

Yours in Bhagavan,

Mouna

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

I join Ramji in his request for more participation. As he rightly said - "Give more than what we take" . He has also quoted Swami Chinmayanandaji - "the question that has never been asked is the most silly question!" . Let me add a request to be cautious while responding to somebody's seemingily 'silly' questions or on a point one may be disagreeing totally. War like accusitions has a sombre effect and makes more people remain unto themselves not genuinely responding. 'Knowledge' seeking has only this pitfall. It's but natural that nobody wants to be labelled a fool. So silence becomes golden and the members lose this chance of gaining the right knowledge from those who are in the know .

 

Regards

 

Balagopal

 

 

The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Homepage.

[Guest guest]

Dandavat pranams to you, dear Balagopalji:

 

Thank you for your post below. The very same thoughts have been going

through my mind and I was going to write to address this as well. While

there may be a handful of scholars on this list, I suspect that the majority

of the list membership consists of students like myself. Speaking for

myself, I don't mind looking up a few sanskrit words, and even enjoy it.

However, when one uses sanskrit constantly in a post, I am lost, my brain

shifts gears, and I would rather go off somewhere and sing!

 

At least for the Gita postings, I would like to make the request that the

scholars who feel they possess knowledge of the Gita, add their valuable

input, even if they think it is elementary for this list. I suggest that it

is elementary only for a handful of the members, not the majority, and that

the majority would welcome, even embrace, the opportunity to read more in

depth commentary on the Gita postings, as long as the sanskrit terms are

explained (in parentheses next to the word used, please:-) and there are not

too many paragraphs. And, if the philosophical, esoteric meanings can be

included along with the most relevant and practical applications in our

everyday life, this would surely be such a gift to others on the list.

 

I would also like to request that those who have questions or comments and

would like to participate, but feel intimidated, please take the ego plunge

! In case you had not noticed, I have done so, and even though I am quite

bruised from falling straight down on my head, I keep on going ;-) Why?

Because I am working on killing my ego. Our new esteemed moderator, Shri

Shyamji, had requested that we take the divine qualities one by one, and I

am doing it because no one else is, not because I think I know what I am

talking about, but because I am trying to learn what I am talking about. The

next divine quality on the list is naanayogavyavasthitih (or steadfastness

in Yoga and knowledge). If we could take that kind of interest in each

verse, those of us who need to, would all gain so much in our study of the

scriptures. Our gift would be in the form of gratitude.

 

Hari OM!!!

 

In His Service,

 

Radhe

 

 

 

 

Namaste,

 

I join Ramji in his request for more participation. As he rightly said -

" Give more than what we take " . He has also quoted Swami Chinmayanandaji -

" the question that has never been asked is the most silly question! " . Let

me add a request to be cautious while responding to somebody's seemingily

'silly' questions or on a point one may be disagreeing totally. War like

accusitions has a sombre effect and makes more people remain unto themselves

not genuinely responding. 'Knowledge' seeking has only this pitfall. It's

but natural that nobody wants to be labelled a fool. So silence becomes

golden and the members lose this chance of gaining the right knowledge

from those who are in the know .

 

Regards

 

Balagopal