source of the quotation 'na rudro rudram archayet'

[Guest guest]

Namaste learned members,

 

I am looking for the source of the popular quotation 'na rudro rudram

archayet' (one who is not a rudra cannot pray to rudra), which equates

the upaasaka to the upaasya and is perhaps the vedic form of vedantic

aham-grahopaasana or can be seen as a mahaavaakya itself.

 

dhanyavaadaH

Ramakrishna

[Guest guest]

advaitin , Ramakrishna Upadrasta <uramakrishna wrote:

>

> I am looking for the source of the popular quotation 'na rudro rudram

> archayet' (one who is not a rudra cannot pray to rudra), which equates

> the upaasaka to the upaasya and is perhaps the vedic form of vedantic

> aham-grahopaasana or can be seen as a mahaavaakya itself.

>

 

Namaste,

 

I wonder if it is a later distortion of:

 

arudro vaatha rudro vaa suutre.na " sivamarcayet |

ya.h ka " scitpatito vaapi muu.dho vaa mucyate nara.h ||

 

 

kriyaasaara by niilaka.n.tha " sivaachaarya

# vol 2 chapters 5 to 14

# university of mysore oriental research institute publications

#sanskrit series 99

 

 

http://muktalib5.org/DL_CATALOG/TEXTS/ETEXTS/kriyaasaara2VELTHUIS.txt

 

 

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

[Guest guest]

Dear Ramakrishna,

In the Introduction to his bhashya on Vishnu sahasranamam there is a shloka

which says that one who is not himself Vishnu should not worship Vishnu, etc.

The original reference is not given. If you do not have Vishnu sahasranama

bhashya I shall give the shloka itself.

There is another well known statement- shivo bhUtvA shivam pUjayet. I have

quoted this in some of my posts. The original reference of these is not known,

but the statements are well known.

 

S.N.Sastri

 

advaitin , Ramakrishna Upadrasta <uramakrishna wrote:

>

> Namaste learned members,

>

> I am looking for the source of the popular quotation 'na rudro rudram

> archayet' (one who is not a rudra cannot pray to rudra), which equates

> the upaasaka to the upaasya and is perhaps the vedic form of vedantic

> aham-grahopaasana or can be seen as a mahaavaakya itself.

>

> dhanyavaadaH

> Ramakrishna

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Ramakrishna,

This is in continuation of my previous post on this subject.

 

The shloka is as below:

na aviShNuH kIrtayet viShNum na aviShNuH viShNum arcayet |

na aviShNuH samsmared viShNum na aviShNuH viShNum ApnuyAt ||

 

(From Mahabharata, karmakANDa)

 

Meaning—One who does not consider himself as viShNu should not sing the praise

of viShNu. One who does not consider himself as viShNu should not worship

viShNu. One who does not consider himself as viShNu should not meditate on

viShNu. One who does not consider himself as viShNu will not attain to viShNu.

 

In some pujas there is in the beginning an item known as bhUtashuddhi. In this

the worshipper first contemplates his body as having been burnt off and washed

by nectar and replaced by the body of shiva or the deity whom he is worshipping.

The nyAsas are also for the purpose of the worshipper identifying himself with

the deity. Thus, even when the difference between the worshipper and the

worshipped is there, there is the underlying idea that in essence the two are

the same and that is the ultimate goal to be reached.

Best wishes,

S.N.Sastri

 

 

advaitin , Ramakrishna Upadrasta <uramakrishna wrote:

>

> Namaste learned members,

>

> I am looking for the source of the popular quotation 'na rudro rudram

> archayet' (one who is not a rudra cannot pray to rudra), which equates

> the upaasaka to the upaasya and is perhaps the vedic form of vedantic

> aham-grahopaasana or can be seen as a mahaavaakya itself.

>

> dhanyavaadaH

> Ramakrishna

>

[Guest guest]

advaitin , " snsastri " <sn.sastri wrote:

>

> The shloka is as below:

> na aviShNuH kIrtayet viShNum na aviShNuH viShNum arcayet |

> na aviShNuH samsmared viShNum na aviShNuH viShNum ApnuyAt ||

>

> (From Mahabharata, karmakANDa)

>

> Meaning—One who does not consider himself as viShNu should not sing the praise

of viShNu. One who does not consider himself as viShNu should not worship

viShNu. One who does not consider himself as viShNu should not meditate on

viShNu. One who does not consider himself as viShNu will not attain to viShNu.

>

>

>

> advaitin , Ramakrishna Upadrasta <uramakrishna@> wrote:

> >

> >

> > I am looking for the source of the popular quotation 'na rudro rudram

> > archayet' (one who is not a rudra cannot pray to rudra), which equates

 

Namaste,

 

This is of interest to me. The popular quotation should have been : " na

arudro rudram archayet " , if it has to convey the same meaning as that referring

to Vishnu.

 

What part of Mahabharata is referred to as 'Karma Kanda?' Is it possible

that some texts referred to by Shankara are no longer extant?

 

The word 'arudro' does not occur in any of the Mahabharata chapters (BORI

critical edition or GRETIL collection).

 

The Shiva Mahapurana in fact mentions twice that even an

'arudra' attains mukti by worshipping Shiva.

 

By the way, Shivasahasra-namavali/stotravali occurs in Mahabaharata, Linga

Purana, and Rudrayamala Tantra.

 

 

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

[Guest guest]

Dear Sunder-ji,

It should be arudro. I took it as a typo by Ramakrishna and did not comment on

it.

The quotation I gave and the ref to karma kANDa appear in the Samata edition of

the Complete Works of Sankara. I too was puzzled by the reference as

'mahabharate karmakANDe'. If you look for aviShNu in Mahabharata you may perhaps

find it.

Regards,

S.N.Sastri

 

advaitin , " sunderh " <sunderh wrote:

>

>

>

> Namaste,

>

> This is of interest to me. The popular quotation should have been : " na

arudro rudram archayet " , if it has to convey the same meaning as that referring

to Vishnu.

>

> What part of Mahabharata is referred to as 'Karma Kanda?' Is it possible

that some texts referred to by Shankara are no longer extant?

>

> The word 'arudro' does not occur in any of the Mahabharata chapters

(BORI critical edition or GRETIL collection).

>

> The Shiva Mahapurana in fact mentions twice that even an

> 'arudra' attains mukti by worshipping Shiva.

>

> By the way, Shivasahasra-namavali/stotravali occurs in Mahabaharata,

Linga Purana, and Rudrayamala Tantra.

>

>

>

> Regards,

>

> Sunder

>

[Guest guest]

praNAmaH Shri Sastri-ji and Sunder-ji,

 

It was my mistake when I typed rudro instead of arudro. The subject makes a

strange reading, showing carelessness on my part.

 

Now, the word aviSnu does not seem to appear in BORI critical edition.

Neither does arudro as Shri Sunder-ji pointed out.

 

I checked in the following link, where one can download the text files of

the entire Mahabharatha (BORI) and search for words.

http://bombay.indology.info/cgi-bin/welcome.cgi

Truly we are living in an age when scholars have put in lot of useful

information on the internet, so that people can search for it when they

want!

 

bhavadIyaH

Ramakrishna

 

 

2010/2/14 snsastri <sn.sastri:

> Dear Sunder-ji,

> It should be arudro. I took it as a typo by Ramakrishna and did not

> comment on it.

> The quotation I gave and the ref to karma kANDa appear in the Samata

> edition of the Complete Works of Sankara. I too was puzzled by the

> reference as 'mahabharate karmakANDe'. If you look for aviShNu in

> Mahabharata you may perhaps find it.

 

> advaitin , " sunderh " <sunderh wrote:

>> This is of interest to me. The popular quotation should have been : " na

>> arudro rudram archayet " , if it has to convey the same meaning as that

>> referring to Vishnu.

>>

>> What part of Mahabharata is referred to as 'Karma Kanda?' Is it

>> possible that some texts referred to by Shankara are no longer

>> extant?

>>

>> The word 'arudro' does not occur in any of the Mahabharata chapters

>> (BORI critical edition or GRETIL collection).

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

I am not a student of Krishna Yajur Veda but I believe I have heard the

following quote while listening to mahanyasam recital

Na Rudro Rudra Marchayete

It is supposed to be a shruti quote, also see following web page for reference

 

http://sroutasaivasiddhanta.com/saivamaha.htm

 

 

regards,

Shailendra

 

advaitin , " uramakrsna " <uramakrishna wrote:

>

> praNAmaH Shri Sastri-ji and Sunder-ji,

>

> It was my mistake when I typed rudro instead of arudro. The subject makes a

> strange reading, showing carelessness on my part.

>

> Now, the word aviSnu does not seem to appear in BORI critical edition.

> Neither does arudro as Shri Sunder-ji pointed out.

>

> I checked in the following link, where one can download the text files of

> the entire Mahabharatha (BORI) and search for words.

> http://bombay.indology.info/cgi-bin/welcome.cgi

> Truly we are living in an age when scholars have put in lot of useful

> information on the internet, so that people can search for it when they

> want!

>

> bhavadIyaH

> Ramakrishna

>

>

> 2010/2/14 snsastri <sn.sastri:

> > Dear Sunder-ji,

> > It should be arudro. I took it as a typo by Ramakrishna and did not

> > comment on it.

> > The quotation I gave and the ref to karma kANDa appear in the Samata

> > edition of the Complete Works of Sankara. I too was puzzled by the

> > reference as 'mahabharate karmakANDe'. If you look for aviShNu in

> > Mahabharata you may perhaps find it.

>

> > advaitin , " sunderh " <sunderh@> wrote:

> >> This is of interest to me. The popular quotation should have been : " na

> >> arudro rudram archayet " , if it has to convey the same meaning as that

> >> referring to Vishnu.

> >>

> >> What part of Mahabharata is referred to as 'Karma Kanda?' Is it

> >> possible that some texts referred to by Shankara are no longer

> >> extant?

> >>

> >> The word 'arudro' does not occur in any of the Mahabharata chapters

> >> (BORI critical edition or GRETIL collection).

>

[Guest guest]

The meaning of the statement ' na rudro-- ' as given in the link provided by

Shailendraji itself says that one should become Rudra to worship Rudra. The

quotation 'na rudro--- ' is therefore clearly a typo. The correct stt is 'na

arudro--'.

As far as I remember,such a statement does not form part of the yajurveda

Mahanyasa.

 

S.N.Sastri

 

advaitin , " Shailendra Bhatnagar "

<bhatnagar_shailendra wrote:

>

> Namaste,

> I am not a student of Krishna Yajur Veda but I believe I have heard the

following quote while listening to mahanyasam recital

> Na Rudro Rudra Marchayete

> It is supposed to be a shruti quote, also see following web page for reference

>

> http://sroutasaivasiddhanta.com/saivamaha.htm

>

>

> regards,

> Shailendra

[Guest guest]

As far as I remember,such a statement does not form part

of the yajurveda Mahanyasa.

praNAms

Hare Krishna

Yes, this maNtra is not part of mahAnyAsa

(atleast in South Indian smArta tradition). rAvaNOkta mahanyAsa is

comparatively elaborated one which we chant before chanting shata rudreeya

or namakaM but this one is not there even in this elaborated version...Even

in laghunyAsa also we have maNtra-s like :ahamamrute, amrutam brahmaNi

etc. but this na rudro ..statement is not there in laghunyAsa either...Ofcourse

we chant : tyajedajnAna nirmAlyaM sohaM bhavena poojayet..

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar

[Guest guest]

Namaste.

 

Infact, if we go more deep into the statement " na arudro rudram archayet " , there

is an adhikara nirnaya which is prescribed here.

 

Saiva Agamas and even Shri Appayya Dikshitar in his work Sivarchana Chandrika

says that one should have the required " Saiva Diksha " before worshipping the

Siva Linga. Raurava Agama clearly prohibits the consumption of siva prasada &

nirmalya sweekarana to a-dikshitas of Siva. First they should be given to the

foremost devotees of Siva like Chandi, Nandi, Bhringi, Ravana etc. and then

should be consumed by the sivopasaka who is initiated in Siva Diksha.

 

regs,

sriram

 

 

advaitin , Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr wrote:

>

> As far as I remember,such a statement does not form part of the yajurveda

> Mahanyasa.

> praNAms

> Hare Krishna

> Yes, this maNtra is not part of mahAnyAsa (atleast in South Indian smArta

> tradition). rAvaNOkta mahanyAsa is comparatively elaborated one which we

> chant before chanting shata rudreeya or namakaM but this one is not there

> even in this elaborated version...Even in laghunyAsa also we have maNtra-s

> like :ahamamrute, amrutam brahmaNi etc. but this na rudro ..statement is

> not there in laghunyAsa either...Ofcourse we chant : tyajedajnAna

> nirmAlyaM sohaM bhavena poojayet..

> Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

> bhaskar

>

[Guest guest]

Saiva Agamas and even Shri Appayya Dikshitar in his work

Sivarchana Chandrika says that one should have the required " Saiva

Diksha " before worshipping the Siva Linga. Raurava Agama clearly prohibits

the consumption of siva prasada & nirmalya sweekarana to a-dikshitas

of Siva.

praNAms

Hare Krishna

Interesting, but I think 'saiva deeksha'

is mandatory for those who follow 'shaivAgama' for doing rudrArchana...I

dont think it is invariably applicable to one and all...and also I dont

think those who do chandramouleeshvara pooja at shringeri have undergone

'shaiva deeksha'...they are all vaidika brahmins and performing poojAdi

upAsana as per vaidika tradition. What is your opinion on this prabhuji

??

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar

[Guest guest]

For kind attention of all members,

The opening sentence from Bhodhyanokta Mahanyasa Khandah is " nArudro rudramarchayEt " . (na arudro rudram archayet) meaning that one should become rudra before his archana, which is same as advitIyam/ advaita, one with the Brahmaikatvam.

But in South as Mr Bhaskar mentioned  in one of his posts that we start chanting Panchanga Rudranyasah in the Mahanyasa Prayoga and continues.

I would like to quote here an instance(heard from somebody), that the previous pontiff of Shringeri while doing archana of Godess Sharadamba started pouring kumkum on his own head, that he himself was one with the Godess. Dont ask for source and all.

 

 

On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 2:45 PM, Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Saiva Agamas and even Shri Appayya Dikshitar in his work Sivarchana Chandrika says that one should have the required " Saiva Diksha " before worshipping the Siva Linga. Raurava Agama clearly prohibits the consumption of siva prasada & nirmalya sweekarana to a-dikshitas of Siva.

praNAms Hare Krishna Interesting, but I think 'saiva deeksha' is mandatory for those who follow 'shaivAgama' for doing rudrArchana...I dont think it is invariably applicable to one and all...and also I dont think those who do chandramouleeshvara pooja at shringeri have undergone 'shaiva deeksha'...they are all vaidika brahmins and performing poojAdi upAsana as per vaidika tradition.  What is your opinion on this prabhuji ??

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!! bhaskar

 

 

 

 

 

 

-- Warm regardsU H Subramanya080-23284740, 9341323940#39, 11th Cross, I Main, Prashanthanagar, Bangalore 560079

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

I feel quite content reciting Acharya's Shiva-manasa- and Nirguna-manasa-

Puja stotra-s.

 

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

 

 

advaitin , Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr wrote:

>

> Saiva Agamas and even Shri Appayya Dikshitar in his work Sivarchana

> Chandrika says that one should have the required " Saiva Diksha " before

> worshipping the Siva Linga. Raurava Agama clearly prohibits the

> consumption of siva prasada & nirmalya sweekarana to a-dikshitas of Siva.

> praNAms

> Hare Krishna

> Interesting, but I think 'saiva deeksha' is mandatory for those who follow

> 'shaivAgama' for doing rudrArchana...

[Guest guest]

I feel quite content reciting Acharya's Shiva-manasa- and

Nirguna-manasa- Puja stotra-s.

praNAms Sri Sunder prabhuji

Hare Krishna

For the purified souls & stithaprajna-s

like your goodself, kevala mAnasa pooja is more than enough for self

aggrandizement...But for the ordinary mortals like me, minimum 2 hours

pooja with all physical kriya required...In those 2 hours, if my mind is

there with bhagavan for atleast 2 minutes, that would be a great achievement...

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar

[Guest guest]

Namaste.

 

I have mis-named the Siva Panchakshari & Rudra Dashakshari as " Saiva Diksha " and

hence the misunderstanding of Siddhanta Saiva. I meant initiation of

Panchakshari, Dashakshari & Shata Rudriya Vidya.

 

Shruti (Tai. Samh.) Declares Agni-abhinna-Rudra having 5 rupas ie., 1) udadhih

2) drudrah 3) guhyah 4) kimkilah 5) vanyah. These 5 aspects of Agni are the

pancha (5) brahma mantras in the form of 1) Ishana 2) Tatpurusha 3) Aghora 4)

Vamadeva 5) Sadyojata.

 

The core principle beneath these 5 Agnis / 5 Pancha Brahma Mantras is the " Rudra

Dashakshara Mahamantra " which forms the Basic Pillar on which stands the entire

tantra prayoga of Mahanyasa. Extreme importance is given to the number 5 aspect

in terms of Panchanga Rudras and hence Mahanyasa Prayoga is also classified into

5 Nyasa Khandas.

 

There is a parampara in Andhra desa where mahanyasa purvaka rudrabhisheka is

done to a wonderful yantra called " Nava trikonAtmaka Rudra Yantra " which is

envisioned the above mentioned Rudra Mantra " Om Namo Bhagavate Rudraya " . The

design of this yantra is : pranava or Om in the middle of a padma with 9

triangles around it. Along these 9 triangles are placed the bijas Na, Mo, Bha,

Ga, Va, Te, Ru, Dra, Ya respectively. The vyashti bijas ie., 10 bijas and the

samashti bijas comprising of all the 10 bijas is the 11th Tattva collectively

form the Ekadasa Rudra Yantra. Some of the ancient temples in Andhra Desa have

this " Navatrikonatmaka Rudra Yantra " installed at the basement of the Garbhalaya

on which Siva Linga is installed.

 

******************

But in mahAnyAsa itself after mahAnyAsa, we do offer sAshAtAnga namasakArams to

umAmaheshwara or sAmba parameshwara is it not?? we do chant 'urasA shirasA

drushtvA......praNamOshtAnga uchyate...etc. to know that which are all the

eight parts of our body to be touched to the ground while doing namaskArams...I

am afraid, anga nyAsa, karanyAsa have become more mechanical nowadays in pooja

vidhAna without really feeling the bhAva of it...

 

**************

 

The Mahanyasa Abhisheka comprises of 3 phases: 1) Mahanyasa 2) Rudra Archana 3)

Rudra Abhisheka respectively. So, the 1st phase called Mahanyasa involves the

tantric initiation of invoking Rudra Tattva on oneself with Rudra Dashakshara

Mantra, Pancha Brahma Mantras, Sata Rudriya and Hamsa Mantra. Not everybody is

entitled to chant the Hamsa Mantra here which is a part of Mahanyasa. One must

first be initiated in Saiva Shadakshari & Rudra Dashakshari Mahamantra in order

to chant this Hamsa Vidya. The nyasa bhaga involves: 1) Ishana – shiro bhaga –

akasa tattva 2) Tatpurusha – mukha bhaga – vayu tattva 3) Aghora – Hridaya bhaga

– Agni tattva 4) Vamadeva – Guhya Bhaga – Jala tattva 5) Sadyojata – pada bhaga

– Prithivi tattva.

 

So, in a nutshell Mahanyasa Khanda is called " Raudrikarana Vidhana " . Unless

this Raudrikarana is done, the upasaka is not entitled to enter into the 2nd &

3rd phase of worship. And hence, probably, the vakya " na arudro rudram

archayet " . Without the " Raudrikarana Vidhana " , one cannot perform the above

Archana & Abhisheka.

 

And for this, upadesa of Siva Panchakshari, Rudra Dashakshari are necessary.

 

Regs,

sriram

 

 

 

advaitin , Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr wrote:

>

> Saiva Agamas and even Shri Appayya Dikshitar in his work Sivarchana

> Chandrika says that one should have the required " Saiva Diksha " before

> worshipping the Siva Linga. Raurava Agama clearly prohibits the

> consumption of siva prasada & nirmalya sweekarana to a-dikshitas of Siva.

> praNAms

> Hare Krishna

> Interesting, but I think 'saiva deeksha' is mandatory for those who follow

> 'shaivAgama' for doing rudrArchana...I dont think it is invariably

> applicable to one and all...and also I dont think those who do

> chandramouleeshvara pooja at shringeri have undergone 'shaiva

> deeksha'...they are all vaidika brahmins and performing poojAdi upAsana as

> per vaidika tradition. What is your opinion on this prabhuji ??

> Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

> bhaskar

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste.

 

Contentment is a relative term which cannot be defined. To follow the sastra,

achara vidhi, shoucha niyamas, veda parayana, deva pachayatana puja is the

nitya vidhi of a smartha.

 

Some so-called smarthas may feel " contended " from Reiki Meditation by throwing

Sandhya Vandana & Gayatri Japa & Panchayatana to winds.

 

Sastra says

 

// antaryAga bahiryAgou grihasthaH sarvdAcharEt //

 

Which means the householder should worship with both the means ie., internal

(antaryaga) as well as external (bahiryaga).

 

Manasika Puja is the apath dharma while one is travelling or in ashoucha state.

 

The sadhana panchakas of Acharya Sankara is a very simple treatise but the

entire 5 slokas are the roadmap to a sincere sadhaka.

 

Regs,

Sriram

 

 

advaitin , " sunderh " <sunderh wrote:

>

> Namaste,

>

> I feel quite content reciting Acharya's Shiva-manasa- and

Nirguna-manasa- Puja stotra-s.

>

>

> Regards,

>

> Sunder

>

>

> advaitin , Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr@> wrote:

> >

> > Saiva Agamas and even Shri Appayya Dikshitar in his work Sivarchana

> > Chandrika says that one should have the required " Saiva Diksha " before

> > worshipping the Siva Linga. Raurava Agama clearly prohibits the

> > consumption of siva prasada & nirmalya sweekarana to a-dikshitas of Siva.

> > praNAms

> > Hare Krishna

> > Interesting, but I think 'saiva deeksha' is mandatory for those who follow

> > 'shaivAgama' for doing rudrArchana...

>