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Antoine wrote----

Apart from thought, there

> > is no independent entity

> > called " world " .

> >

> >

> > In deep sleep, there are no thoughts

> > and there is no world. In waking and

> > dreaming, there are thoughts, and there

> > is a world.

> >

> >

> > Just as the spider emits the thread (of the web)

> > out of itself and then withdraws it, likewise,

> > the mind projects the world out of itself and

> > then withdraws it back into itself.

> >

> > Raman Maharshi, Essential Teaching, A Visual Journey.

 

> Wim wrote:-

> All this is so often totally misunderstood.

> Thought and world are mutually and reciprocal dependent CONCEPTS in

> nondual wholeness...

> We can compare these two concepts to the two ways in which we can

talk

> about light... wave-like or particle-like... it just depends on HOW

> one is dealing with light. What IT actually is, is more than those

> concepts or whatever concepts we use to 'talk about it'.

> Better not to use Ramana's text to value 'thought' more

than 'world'

> or 'world' less then 'thought'. They are conceptual distinctions.

When

> one reads Ramana very carefully one sees that very clearly.

Problem is

> that so many translations and commentaries were done by those who

did

> not understand from the same clarity what Ramana said in clarity.

They

> used words and sentences that show more about their in-

comprehension

> than the clear light that Ramana emanated.

>

> Wim

 

Namaste,

 

I would say Antoine is quite accurate in his understanding. The same

thing is said in many of the Upanishads and other Texts. In fact the

spider analogy is actually Ramana quoting one of these texts

himself. However I would take it one step further and say there is

no mind to subsume the world into ultimately. You are right on one

thing though, thought and world are part of the mind and therefore

unreal, as unreal as the spider.........ONS...Tony.