Doing it for real.

[Guest guest]

Namaste M,

 

The science of liberation is also the science of life. All on this

planet have their Dharma, humans, plants, animals. Humans violate

their Dharma constantly, it seems to describe them. This is because

of self interest seated in the ephemeral ego.

 

There is no point in providing for one's family like Valmiki did as

a Dacoit. He was fulfilling his grihasta dharma but look at the

karma he incurred from the method.

 

These discussion groups are full of vicarious attainers and

discussers that talk the talk but don't walk the walk. Don't change

their behaviours or get their hands dirty. This seems to predominate

in the intellectual middle classes of western society.

 

So many argue from a point of weakness, in their lives, perhaps we

all do to a certain extent. Some may condone an illicit condition,

occupation or life but at the same time spout all kinds of vedanta

and advaita. The mind has this ability to ignore what is adharmic in

oneself it seems.

 

Ashatanga Yoga is a help to identify the path to take. Ahimsa,

Asteya etc etc.

 

My father was an Irish Officer in the Indian Army and had

conversations with Gandhi. This had an effect on him, but didn't

make him non violent,hahahah although I am. He was quite sympathetic

to Swaraj and consequently was 'sent home' early. hahaha. So even

though many of the colonial class picked up Vedanta, as long as they

enjoyed the fruits of the illegal occupation of India, their karma

was not good. For even the houses they lived in and the food they

ate was stolen as per Asteya. So Swaraj when it came not only freed

the Indians from an illicit occupation but also freed the British. I

myself have visited India more than once and can see that they are

making their own progress and their own mistakes.

 

So I agree with you that Sadhana is much more than an intellectual

or pollyana emotional exercise. However according to Nisargadatta's

calculations, only 60,000 people on the planet even understand

Advaita intellectually, so there isn't much hope for the other yogas

either. It is far more difficult than one thinks, for one has to be

full of Sathya or Truth and not hypocrisy.

 

Even though I am not suited to them, I notice groups like the Hare

Krishna's tend to live what they believe, and it is not just

intellectual entertainment or an expectation of instant

gratification................One has to purify oneself and one's

Buddhi.

 

Being a Bhakta is a lot more difficult than most imagine, for

without Dharma there isn't any, just empty

movements.........ONS..Tony.

[Guest guest]

NonDualPhil , " josesiem " <josesiem> wrote:

 

 

Hi Tony --

 

This group tends to be more questioning of taken-for-granted things,

assumptions, beliefs that we carry around with no good evidence

except for maybe some old Indian dude said it in some book.

 

NonDualPhil , " Tony OClery " <aoclery>

wrote:

>

> Namaste ,

>

> The science of liberation is also the science of life. All on this

> planet have their Dharma, humans, plants, animals. Humans violate

> their Dharma constantly, it seems to describe them. This is

because

> of self interest seated in the ephemeral ego.

 

What if it's our dharma to violate our dharma? You assume some state

of affairs other than what-is now. You assume it COULD be different,

and indeed SHOULD be different. What is this based on? Try not to

argue from texts and Sri So-and-so, but rather from your own

experience.

 

Why should things be different than they are? That's a tough

question.

 

You know, I think everyone on the planet should have access to clean

drinking water, food, and shelter. This seems like a fairly benign

and non-controversial belief/ideal.

 

But if it actually happened, if I got my wish, the planet would be

an

utter disaster and would be destroyed with 10 yrs! Environment, and

most economic and social systems would collapse.

 

My point is, things are as they are. Creating what could be in our

minds is just fantasy. In fact, it may seem like a great idea, but

we

don't know. It's an egotistical pursuit IMO to worry about this

following the dharma business. It's about me and my pleasure/state

of

mind. It's just another version of the " pleasure me " game.

 

 

>

> These discussion groups are full of vicarious attainers and

> discussers that talk the talk but don't walk the walk. Don't

change

> their behaviours or get their hands dirty. This seems to

predominate

> in the intellectual middle classes of western society.

 

True.

 

>

> Even though I am not suited to them, I notice groups like the Hare

> Krishna's tend to live what they believe, and it is not just

> intellectual entertainment or an expectation of instant

> gratification................One has to purify oneself and one's

> Buddhi.

 

Yeah, this is what the Jihadists say too. They're good at living

what

they believe.

 

>

> Being a Bhakta is a lot more difficult than most imagine, for

> without Dharma there isn't any, just empty

> movements.........ONS..Tony.

 

I don't think the dharma vs. non-dharma distinction holds up if you

really look at it.

 

Joe

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