Guest guest Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 NonDualPhil , " Tony OClery " <aoclery> wrote: NonDualPhil , " greg_goode_2000 " <goode@D...> wrote: > > NonDualPhil , " texasbg2000 " > <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote: > > > > Just to pin you down here: > > Don't you hold that because thoughts return after Samadhi, Samadhi > is > > of no real value. > > ===Well, there's one kind of samadhi that is > not followed by any thoughts - sahaja samadhi. > But then it's not personal in the first place. > > My point is not that nirvikalpa or savikalpa > samadhi is of no real value. It's that it is > not exclusively necessary. The very same > " state " is available from a host of other > experiences, such as being in the " zone, " > or deep sleep, or even being totally captivated > by a beautiful sunset. The major difference > between NS, SS, and these experiences is that > the official samadhis have socially accepted > spiritual cache and the others don't. At least > until one enters a direct path such as taught > by Atmananda or Jean Klein. Then these other > experiences are taught to have the same value. > They don't require expertise in meditation either! > > As for the value they have - I see all these > experiences as metaphors for what is always > and already the case. They are also motivators. > In fact, the very misunderstanding about NS > motivates one to continue their investigation. > Namely, they think that " enlightenment " will be > just like NS, only longer! That's so appealing > that folks stick to the path! > > --Greg Namaste G, This is close to my own opinion also. However when Ramana talks of the Self and the Samadhis and Nisargadatta re Praneaswara, they are all talking of Saguna of some description. It seems to merge with a Self with attributes is fine but without attributes isn't. Why? because it is Nirguna and that presents a problem of 'fear', is it extinction or is it expansion. Saguna sounds a lot better with its merging with Bliss and Love Energy. These are attributes understood by attributes of the mind, which is the mind in fact. The Ego not wanting something unknown, or non experiencable. Most people visualise Moksha as an experience which requires an ego. The fact remains that only the ultimate Nirguna is true Moksha. However if one merges with the Sakti one realises Nirguna at the same time, as does Iswara. The creation disappears, Quelle Horreur!!! I have seen on other sites people get angry over this but at the same time talk of non duality. As Nisargadatta says only one man in Bombay/Mumbai can even understand Advaita intellectually never mind realise it..........It all never happened so anything with an attribute is unreal-------Bliss, Cit-Sat-Ananda or whatever....ONS...Tony. --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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