Guest guest Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 , christiane cameron <christianecameron@m...> wrote: > Dear Tony, > > yes yes yes > > but even Ramana Maharshi loved Arunachala better than any other place > > > > > OAS > Chris Namaste Chris, One must distinguish between Ramana the body and its prarabda karma, which may appear human, and the Jivanmukta. This confusion is what causes further misunderstandings. People talk of being Ramana devotees etc etc. What are they devotees of? Ramana the body with its karma or The Universal Jivanmukta? Ramana doesn't exist anymore than Jesus or Krishna. What does exist, for arguments sake, is the Higher Consciousness, upon which we give names like Jesus Buddha or Ramana. Ultimately this is also unreal but that is another discussion altogether. So worshipping pictures and images of Ramana is just putting a face on our own Higher Self. It can be useful as a point of concentration as Ramana has said..........ONS...Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 Dear Tony, I cannot believe that you are lecturing me in this way. Either this is not meant for me at all or you never read anything I wrote. Again, we are aware of everything you say, but if we take all interaction to the last consequence of Nirguna, then we might as well stop posting here, as neither you nor I nor this Sangha exists. There was a Jnani called Ramana Maharshi, my beloved Guruji, and he loved Arunachala, that is all. Ramana is Arunachala and Arunachala is Shiva and Shiva is Self. Has the red mountain called you? Om Arunachala Shiva Chris On Jan 3, 2005, at 18:30, Tony OClery wrote: > > , christiane cameron > <christianecameron@m...> wrote: > > Dear Tony, > > > > yes yes yes > > > > but even Ramana Maharshi loved Arunachala better than any other > place > > > > > > > > > > OAS > > Chris > > Namaste Chris, > > One must distinguish between Ramana the body and its prarabda karma, > which may appear human, and the Jivanmukta. This confusion is what > causes further misunderstandings. > > People talk of being Ramana devotees etc etc. What are they devotees > of? Ramana the body with its karma or The Universal Jivanmukta? > Ramana doesn't exist anymore than Jesus or Krishna. What does exist, > for arguments sake, is the Higher Consciousness, upon which we give > names like Jesus Buddha or Ramana. Ultimately this is also unreal > but that is another discussion altogether. > > So worshipping pictures and images of Ramana is just putting a face > on our own Higher Self. It can be useful as a point of concentration > as Ramana has said..........ONS...Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 advaitajnana , christiane cameron <christianecameron@m...> wrote: > Dear Tony, > > I cannot believe that you are lecturing me in this way. Either this is > not meant for me at all or you never read anything I wrote. > > Again, we are aware of everything you say, but if we take all > interaction to the last consequence of Nirguna, then we might as well > stop posting here, as neither you nor I nor this Sangha exists. > > There was a Jnani called Ramana Maharshi, my beloved Guruji, and he > loved Arunachala, that is all. Ramana is Arunachala and Arunachala is > Shiva and Shiva is Self. Has the red mountain called you? > > Om Arunachala Shiva > Chris Namaste Chris et al, No it isn't meant for you personally, it is meant for me and anybody. No I haven't had any red mountains talking to me recently, that I am aware of. Although a few rocks have been, thrown my way. Just because one uses a form of devotion doesn't mean that is the way of all. If one wishes to use pictures and mountains or even bodily forms for a point of concentration that is fine, but it is all external. Ramana's teaching was all internal 'Who am I?', I'm sure he had to tolerate people worshipping him as did many other Muktas, but that doesn't mean it was his teaching. One has to distinguish between the body and its prarabda and the Mukta/Self. Some people cannot easily go within due to mental capacity so they worship things, as a representation. Ramana didn't come to start a new religion, in fact he didn't get involved so. There is no Ramana anyway but in people's imaginations, as the same with Jesus, Buddha etc------they were probably all Muktas, most with prarabda that gave them the illusion of being a person. Many even have impressions of omniscience in Gurus etc etc. This is also misunderstood IMO. A guru can only have the siddhis that were decided for the body by prarabda and that's all. When the Ego is gone it is the Universal Consciousness that motivates the 'shell'. The UC is universal and so therefore doesn't have value judgments. So a 100,000 people karmically killed in say a hurricane is no different from a hundred thousand ants killed by someone poisoning them in the garden. The Self doesn't ever interfere, in this exchange and movement of illusory energy. So gurus cannot be expected to display omniscience to the nth degree. An Avatar may be slightly different from a Mukta in that they are not fully realised, but held off to return and help. However they usually become Muktas once in the lifetime anyway,IMO. They also carry out the prescribed task they have set out for themeslves and no more, including which siddhis etc etc. In the end result pictures, mountains, idols, guru- humans and all are for concentration only. This is because the lower mind loves ritual and this behaviour. Go Within is the teaching.......Ramana especially taught this and didn't come to found a new religion of image worshippers. Who am I? Ko-Ham. So yes I don't worship people, pictures, mountains, or any other manifestation of illusion. I try to go within. Even praying achieves nothing but a little peace of mind, it cannot change any karma. Only meditation is really effective...........I am not saying stop worshipping if at this state of one's mental capacity one needs it for concentration.........but lets not forget what the concentration is for...............ONS.............Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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