Dispelling Illusion.

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advaitin , " V. Krishnamurthy " <profvk>

wrote:

>

> advaitin , " Dennis Waite " <dwaite@a...>

wrote:

> > Hi Atagrasin,

> > << The point is who is it that is going to choose to make the

> effort? How

> > can a illusion dispel itself?>>

> >

> > It is only at the pAramArthika level that all these arguments

make

> sense

> > (and it is not possible to *have* an argument at that level

since

> there are

> > not two to take part).

>

> Namaste

>

> This dialogue between Altagrasin and Dennis reminds me of the

> following question which frequently arises in the discussion of

> advaita by scholars:

>

> A person X is sleeping. Another person Y comes and wakes him up

> without physically touching him. How does Y wake X up? Y

> calls " Hey, X, get up; X, get up " . And X gets up. Now tell me.

> Did X hear the call while he was asleep? No, it cannot be. Did X

> hear the call, after he woke up? Then how did he get up? The

> philosophy of advaita says, that the two things, namely,, hearing

> the call and getting up, were simultaneous. So also they say, the

> realisation that I am IT and moksha are simultaneous. This, they

> say is the explanation for illusion dispelling itself from itself

> by a 'call' from the guru!

>

>

> PraNAms to all the advaitins.

> profvk

 

Namaste VK et al,IMO,

 

I gave not deleted anything for my response is to all of it. First

of all how does a sleeping person wake up on hearing 'wake up' etc.

Well if they are in the dream plane it will be easier, if they are

in sushupti or deep sleep one may have to repeat the command or

touch the person.

 

I have found that in meditation or yoga nidra or whatever it is that

happens with me, I will awake from complete unconsciousness. This is

because I started doing meditation many years ago I programmed

myself to awaken to the phone or somelike. So provided I follow the

same procedure into meditation the command doesn't need to be

repeated..Why? Because even though my consciousness may be in

sushupti or dhyana, some part of my lower mind and kosas is not.

Medititation or deep sleep/sushupti is a thought about one thing or

one thought of ignorance. Samadhi is something else altogether above

all thought, depending on the level----savikalpa or nirvikalpa.

It has all to do with vibrations, being attracted to like and being

attached. This is why Devadas wakes up everyday as Devadas, he still

has samskaras and vibrations called Devadas. If these sankaras or

vibrations don't exist then one is realised of course.

 

Now they say realisation or Moksha happens like the Sun rising

although one can see the sun starting to rise with the Dawn. But it

bursts into full life immediately. A Guru or rather Sadguru can only

be a Jivanmukta. All other Gurus are really teachers or Saints, that

may or may not be returned to help---Avatars, Bhodisattvas etc. You

can tell a true or Sadguru by the fact that he/she encourages less

action/activity not more. A Jivanmukta is a realised person an

Avatar has preserved a thought to return and help, so isn't fully

realised. Some would say a dweller in the Brahma loka.

 

The Guru that helps you to realisation is in the end result You,

Guru/God/You are the same.

 

It seems to me there are two instantaneous steps to moksha.

Realising that we are Praneaswara/Saguna and at the same time

realising Nirguna. Which is the only Truth.

This is what is meant by Jesus saying 'The Way to the Father is

through Me. The way to Nirguna is through Sakti-Saguna, and on

realisation all Sakti-Prana-Karma-Saguna disappears as never having

happened at all...........ONS...Tony.IMHO.