re free will and the imaginary doer

[Guest guest]

advaitajnana , " Tony OClery " <aoclery>

wrote:

> In advaitin , " Dennis Waite " <dwaite@a...> wrote:

> > Hi Tony-ji,

> >

> > <<So one can make a choice to suffer, enjoy or to learn..>>

> >

> > I don't know that an alcoholic would agree with this (or their

> > family/friends).

>

> Namaste,

>

> As it happens I am a recovering alcoholic and haven't drank since

> 1985, and I am fully aware that the choice to stop was up to me and

> me alone. People don't stop until they are bad enough. Recovering

> from alcohol is a dummy run on recovering from birth after birth

and

> other attachments. I learned by giving up smoking, then alcohol and

> finally meat. It is a process, but the will is definately the key,

> not the addiction.

>

> My spoke and wheel and bleed throughs is from myself not from

> Sankara, as far as I know...Perhaps he did say something

> similar....?...ONS...Tony.

>=========================

ONS There is no difference only the words. I thought I recovered from

alcohol and drugs in 1980 .. I was proud of myself as were a lot of

relatives-friends. I was a real bad dude when it came to drugs

and booze, so deep inside I somehow knew that as bad as I was I

could not have had anything to do with recovery.

Then about 5 years ago I suddenly discovered what " surrender "

was all about and I accepted/ surrendered that if I had nothing to

do with " recovery " then I also had nothing to do with being a

drug- addict+ alcoholic.

As Advaita and the Gita keep trying to tell us " there is no

doer. "

As long as the mind thinks it is doing things life is an exercise if

futility. Ask anyone, a " doer " trying to control an

addiction.

 

And if the mind somehow accepts that there is no doer then life is

still an exercise in futility but at least I can laugh at all the

imaginary doers that think they are controlling their addictions,

recoveries, when in fact " control " is just like the

imaginary doer, and his imaginary free-will -- a thought.

 

just thoughts

[Guest guest]

advaitajnana , " Gene Polotas " <gpalotas>

wrote:

> advaitajnana , " Tony OClery " <aoclery>

> wrote:

> > In advaitin , " Dennis Waite " <dwaite@a...> wrote:

> > > Hi Tony-ji,

> > >

> > > <<So one can make a choice to suffer, enjoy or to learn..>>

> > >

> > > I don't know that an alcoholic would agree with this (or their

> > > family/friends).

> >

> > Namaste,

> >

> > As it happens I am a recovering alcoholic and haven't drank

since

> > 1985, and I am fully aware that the choice to stop was up to me

and

> > me alone. People don't stop until they are bad enough.

Recovering

> > from alcohol is a dummy run on recovering from birth after birth

> and

> > other attachments. I learned by giving up smoking, then alcohol

and

> > finally meat. It is a process, but the will is definately the

key,

> > not the addiction.

> >

> > My spoke and wheel and bleed throughs is from myself not from

> > Sankara, as far as I know...Perhaps he did say something

> > similar....?...ONS...Tony.

> >=========================

> ONS > There is no difference only the words. I thought I recovered from

> alcohol and drugs in 1980 .. I was proud of myself as were a lot

of

> relatives-friends. I was a real bad dude when it came to drugs

> and booze, so deep inside I somehow knew that as bad as I was I

> could not have had anything to do with recovery.

> Then about 5 years ago I suddenly discovered what " surrender "

> was all about and I accepted/ surrendered that if I had nothing

to

> do with " recovery " then I also had nothing to do with being a

> drug- addict+ alcoholic.

> As Advaita and the Gita keep trying to tell us " there is no

> doer. "

> As long as the mind thinks it is doing things life is an exercise

if

> futility. Ask anyone, a " doer " trying to control an

> addiction.

>

> And if the mind somehow accepts that there is no doer then life is

> still an exercise in futility but at least I can laugh at all the

> imaginary doers that think they are controlling their addictions,

> recoveries, when in fact " control " is just like the

> imaginary doer, and his imaginary free-will -- a thought.

>

> just thoughts

 

Namaste,

 

There is truth in what you say about surrender, for didn't succeed

in giving up alcohol until I was way into meditation. So I can agree

with your above thoughts. Even though it is all karmic, and choice I

made was predestined. If I had chosen to stay drinking etc, then the

karma would come around again. When the slate is clean--nothing ever

happened...........ONS..Tony.