Guest guest Posted October 27, 2005 Report Share Posted October 27, 2005 Namaste. AVATARS. What is an Avatar? The name in Sanksrit means `to cross down', so that could mean all Jivas, or individual entities. However it usually refers to a Karana Janma or a person who takes birth, even though they karmically don't need to. The Universal Consciousness or `God' doesn't take birth actually per se, but is ever the witness of this play of Maya. So many entities rise up to eventually become vehicles, as the Avatars of Visnu. It appears that this concept operates at different levels from Amsa- Avatars or partial avatars, to Avatars and finally to PurnaAvatar or `Fully Divine Avatars', like Krishna. Like the Buddhist concept of a Bhodisattava, a Jiva puts off Liberation or Moksha and wills another life, to come back and help humanity. This `willing' is of course is a thought hence an Ego-Mind is preserved, otherwise there would be no rebirth or anything to take rebirth. However there is nothing to prevent such an advanced being from taking Moksha and surrendering the ego anytime in the Avatara, from birth onwards. At his time the Avatar would become a PurnaAvatar or JivanMukta, a surrendered ego and fully merged in the Universal Consciousness. So it follows that a PurnaAvatar at birth took Moksha at that time. Becoming a Jivanmukta with a Prarabda Karma to perform during the lifetime. The signs of a Mukta are usually, being an embodiment of Love, and having no desires/attachments, as this requires a Jiva Ego-Mind. Other than that it takes a Mukta to recognise another one. A Jiva who follows the Bhakti path, and doesn't desire to lose its identity, would rise to a level of consciousness just short of Moksha called the Brahmaloka. At MahaPralaya or Great Dissolution of the Universe this Jiva would merge into Moksha. All this is within the projection of Maya, of course. For nothing ever took birth or is reincarnated-------- " Who am I " ?...ONS..Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2005 Report Share Posted October 28, 2005 MillionPaths , " Tony OClery " <aoclery> wrote: MillionPaths , Dalriada333@a... wrote: > > > Well Tony, > > from my understandings of readings of the writings of others > an Avartar is one so far above that a mere mortal > can not from his understanding even speculate on what they are > > But my understanding for what it's worth > is that an Avatar is one > who on this earthly level can freely communicate, > quite likely without knowing, > that he or she is purely > and very simply > being > Love in action. > > catherine Namaste, We are all avatars but we don't know it they do, that's the difference essentially. It is a matter of not having an ego and levels of awareness. Nothing is higher or lower, because 'God' cannot be divided or subject to value judgements. So they are not so far above the mere mortal. Who am I?...............ONS..Tony. --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 advaitajnana , " Tony OClery " <aoclery> wrote: > > Namaste. > > AVATARS. > > > What is an Avatar? The name in Sanksrit means `to cross down', so > that could mean all Jivas, or individual entities. However it > usually refers to a Karana Janma or a person who takes birth, even > though they karmically don't need to. > > > > The Universal Consciousness or `God' doesn't take birth actually per > se, but is ever the witness of this play of Maya. So many entities > rise up to eventually become vehicles, as the Avatars of Visnu. > > > > It appears that this concept operates at different levels from Amsa- > Avatars or partial avatars, to Avatars and finally to PurnaAvatar > or `Fully Divine Avatars', like Krishna. > > > > Like the Buddhist concept of a Bhodisattava, a Jiva puts off > Liberation or Moksha and wills another life, to come back and help > humanity. > > This `willing' is of course is a thought hence an Ego-Mind is > preserved, otherwise there would be no rebirth or anything to take > rebirth. > > However there is nothing to prevent such an advanced being from > taking Moksha and surrendering the ego anytime in the Avatara, from > birth onwards. At his time the Avatar would become a PurnaAvatar or > JivanMukta, a surrendered ego and fully merged in the Universal > Consciousness. So it follows that a PurnaAvatar at birth took > Moksha at that time. Becoming a Jivanmukta with a Prarabda Karma to > perform during the lifetime. > > > > The signs of a Mukta are usually, being an embodiment of Love, and > having no desires/attachments, as this requires a Jiva Ego-Mind. > Other than that it takes a Mukta to recognise another one. > > > > A Jiva who follows the Bhakti path, and doesn't desire to lose its > identity, would rise to a level of consciousness just short of > Moksha called the Brahmaloka. At MahaPralaya or Great Dissolution of > the Universe this Jiva would merge into Moksha. > > > > All this is within the projection of Maya, of course. For nothing > ever took birth or is reincarnated-------- " Who am I " ?...ONS..Tony. > advaitin , " Nathan Port " <eport924> wrote: > > > > advaitajnana , " Tony OClery " <aoclery> > > wrote: > > Greetings, >> How does one keep a little bit of the ego and decide to be a > Bodhisattva, or be in the Bramhaloka until the Great dissolution? > I assume sadhana under a qualified guru is necessary, or is willing > it enough. For some, isn't final enlightenment something that happens > on it's own, and they never had a choice to stay or not? Namaste, Nathan et al, It isn't a case of keeping a little bit of the ego, that's like being a little bit pregnant. It is about having an almost purified mind and having overcome all vasanas and samskaras, except the one ego thought or desire to take rebirth and help. One doesn't choose to be in the Brahmaloka, it can happen because one doesn't want to lose the identity of a Bhakta that is loving the Lord or Ishtadevata. This again is keeping the ego desire to love without becoming merged with one loved. With regard to your last point on realisation being spontaneous, well if one didn't have the desire to return that would be the case. However people who return don't have a spontaneous thought about it, it is something in their sadhana...............ONS...Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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