Guest guest Posted December 24, 2005 Report Share Posted December 24, 2005 GURURASA ADVISE TO SINNER..... Story: This man, 'gorakh' is a bitter, angry person who spends most of his spare time attacking gurus on a few groups. The interchange with him and a guru below happened starting October 13, 2005, message 3, at Swami-G_speaks/ After his short friendship with said guru ended, he started attacking her and all other gurus viciously once again. Rasa took the exchange and bestowed her own answers. For Rasa's Christian/Yoga perspective please see her formidable site: http://www.womanthouartgod.com/theology.php ADMITS HIS FAULTS, BUT ALAS, FALLS BACK INTO PATTERNS OF LAZINESS, ANGER AND IMPATIENCE AND ALL IS LOST AGAIN (BAD GOAT nickname, has changed nickname to Avent 86 since Rasa offered this piece) B Goat <gorakh@o...> wrote: > >* I did specifically pray not to have the light show > >experiences that were so common, but instead for > > > transformation, that is for the ego to be dissolved into the IS as you so nicely put it. Sadly I got neither. (Rasa's answers to B Goat preceeded by *** asterisks - Gorakh words, preceeded by *) *** BAD GOAT, HOW CAN YOU EXPECT GOD TO HEAR YOU AND GIVE YOU ANYTHING WHEN YOU ARE SO FILLED WITH EGO AND EVIL? HOW CAN GOD ENTER SUCH FILTH? * I understand that. There are all sorts of phenomena. I didnt want to get distracted by them. *** BETTER YOU GET DISTRACTED BY PHENOMENA FROM GOD THAN BY THE PHENOMENA OF YOUR FLESH OR OF THIS WORLD. * I wanted spiritual growth. *** TO HAVE SPIRITUAL GROWTH YOU WOULD NEED A WHOLE LOT OF CLEANSING FIRST, B GOAT. * But what happened in SY was that my ego sense became more entrenched, not less. And I saw this happening with the people all around me. *** NO, IT WAS YOU. NOT THE PEOPLE AROUND YOU. YOU PROJECTED. IF YOU WOULD JUST WORRY ABOUT YOUR OWN SINS YOU COULD CONQUER THEM, BUT YOU WORRY ABOUT THE SINS OF OTHERS. * There were exceptions but not many. * So many people would arrive and they would be good people with good intentions and genuine spiritual aspirations. Over a period of years, they would become progressively more mean spirited, selfish, manipulative etc. *** AGAIN, WHY ARE YOU WORRIED ABOUT THEIR SINS AND NOT YOUR OWN? THE FAULTS OF OTHERS CAN BE A GOOD CHISEL TO CHIP AWAY AT YOUR OWN BAD TRAITS, IF YOU WOULD JUST HUMBLE YOURSELF AND LET IT HAPPEN - INSTEAD OF STRIKING OUT OR NOTING ALL THEIR FAULTS. * This wasn't a passing phase, it was a one way trip as long as they stayed in the ashram. You could almost tell how long someone had been in the ashrams by how much of an arsehole they were. I can honestly say that living in the ashram brought out the worst in me. *** THE PROBLEM WAS NOT THE ASHRAM, IT WAS YOU. YOU WERE BAD TO BEGIN WITH AND THERE WAS NO MAGIC POTION TO CURE YOU . WHAT YOU NEEDED WAS HARSH DISCIPLINE THE WAY A SARGEANT BREAKS RECRUITS. YOUR EGO NEVER GOT BROKEN. IT IS ONE OF THE WORST I HAVE EVER SEEN. IT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE TO MAKE ANY SPIRITUAL HEADWAY WITH AN EGO SUCH AS YOURS. * That would have been alright if it was some kind of cleansing. But it wasn't. I was in the ashram for six years and it probably took as long afterwards for the negative effects to wear off. *** YOU DID NOT GET CLEANSED BECAUSE YOU RESISTED CLEANSING. YOU HAVE TO BE HUMBLE TO GET CLEANSED. > >* I dont know if I have ever had any kind of Kundalini > >awakening. I do know God has always been a focus of my > >life, from birth and before. do consider myself to be a sincere > >seeker, albeit a lazy one in some ways. *** AT LEAST YOU ARE ADMITTING TO ONE OF YOUR FAULTS. THAT IS A BEGINNING. * The laziness is huge. I have to overcome the laziness before I can do anything about it :-) What is surprising to me is that this lazy streak a mile wide could remain hidden from me till recently. Its very sneaky. *** BUT I AM SURE OTHERS AROUND YOU COULD SEE IT. NOW LOOK AT YOURSELF. WHAT DO YOU DO WITH YOUR TIME? YOU ARE BUSY SEEKING OUT PEOPLE TO ATTACK AND RIDICULE, DOING RESEARCH FOR HARM, LOOKING FOR BAD POSTS YO CAN MAKE. YOU ARE BUSY DOING THE DEVIL'S WORK. BUT WHAT ARE YOU DOING FOR YOUR SOUL? ARE YOU PRAYING, MEDITATING, CHANTING, READING SPIRITUAL MATTER? NO POSTING DIRT ON GROUPS. THIS IS SLOTH, A GREAT SIN. WORKING FOR THE DEVIL, NEGLECTING THE GOOD OF YOUR SOUL. * Anger and impatience are also issues. I could go on. *** YOU HAVE UNBRIDLED ANGER, BORDERLINE RAGE. YOU NEED TO STOP ALL THIS NEGATIVE ACTIVITY ON GROUPS - LOOKING FOR PEOPLE TO HURT - AND LOOK INTO YOURSELF. WHAT IS THE SOURCE OF THIS NEGATIVITY? WHY DO YOU HATE YOURSELF SO MUCH? YOUR HATE TOWARD OTHERS PROVES YOU REALLY HATE YOURSELF AND HAVE LOW SELF ESTEEM! > >* I have even started meditating again on (rare) occasions. I think I have a good intellectual grasp of the samadhi states but then again at times I feel like I'm not even a beginner on the path. *** YOU NEVER WENT INTO THE FIRST STAGES OF WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A SADHAKA. IT WILL TAKE A LOT OF BRUTAL LESSONS OF LIFE TO BRING YOU TO YOUR KNEES, PERHAPS. SO THAT IS HOW GOD WILL HAVE TO DEAL WITH YOU! BRING YOU TO YOUR KNEES SO YOU COULD HUMBLE YOURSELF AND GET CLEANSED! * I feel like I've been on a spiritual path my whole life, but when I read some of the kundalini experiences on guru satsang, I realise I'm just not in the same league. Pride takes a dent, LOL. *** I PRAY THAT GOD WILL BRING YOU TO YOUR KNEES SOON SO THE PROCESS CAN BEGIN. * When I do meditate I use ham sa, ham in, sa out. When my mind settles down a bit I begin focusing on the space between the in breath and the out breath, still using ham in, sa out. As my focus centres on that space, my breathing slows right down. On a good day my mind will then have slowed down enough for me to experience stillness for short spells.. Not perfect stillness but close. * There is still ME experiencing the stillness. And usually what brings me out is cognition of experiencing stillness. Just enough movement for the mind to get a foothold and get moving again. * The other thing thats happened a few times is that my breathing slows down to the point where I feel like I could stop altogether. But this engenders a panic attack from the mind. I feel like if I stopped breathing, my consciousness would leave my body and I dont know if I would ever make it back. And even if I did make it back, my sense of I or ME would be gone. * I would lose what I normally think of as my core identity, and this is very scary. I dont know what would take its place. *** LOSING YOU WOULD BE A GOOD THING - FOR EVERYONE. * Essentially its the same as dying, but in a more profound way than merely having the body die. *** DYING IS EASY. IT'S LIVING THAT'S HARD. * I dont doubt that. The image I had in my head of what I was looking for in a guru before I was in SY and before I went to India was a good one. It was of an old white bearded Indian man, sadhu type perhaps (I know this sounds corny) sitting under a tree with perhaps a dozen disciples. He was established in THAT and had the ability to see into the hearts of each us. > There was no hiding anything from him. * He could see exactly where each of us were at and knew just what we needed to do. He was compassionate but > fierce, and ruthless when it came to working on ego. * Muk kind of fitted that image, but I never met him so had to go on stories. * That was probably the Achilles heel that let me get myself caught up in SY. Gurumayi didnt fit the mold at all for me. I had to jump through a lot of mental hoops to excuse the sorts of things SY was doing. *** WHAT EXACTLY ARE YOU LOOKING FOR, GORAKH? * Good question. Basically its just to still the mind. All the experiences I've ever had involved a ME and I'd like to learn to let that go. *** YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD AND I WILL GIVE YOU THE EASY AND OBVIOUS ANSWER - ONE THAT ANY SCHOOLBOY WOULD KNOW. IT IS LOVE OF ANOTHER. WHEN YOU LOVE ANOTHER, YOU LOSE YOURSELF IN THE OTHER. IF THAT OTHER IS THE GURU, THEN YOU'VE GOT IT MADE. THE GRACE OF THE GURU WILL COME TO YOU ONCE THE SELF-LOVE (EGO CRAP) IS OUT OF THE WAY. One thing I dont understand is the relationship between kundalini and stilling the mind. I dont see what kundalini energy has to do with the mind being still or why its necessary. You are probably laughing at this question. :-) *** YOU WORRY TOO MUCH ABOUT TECHNIQUE AND NOT ENOUGH ABOUT HUMILITY AND LOVE. DO NOT THINK ABOUT TECHNIQUE, JUST LEARN HUMILITY. IN HUMILITY OR SPIRITUAL POVERTY, ALL GOOD THINGS WILL COME TO YOU. YOU THINK ABOUT TECHNIQUE AS YOU GO ALONG.... YOU NEED TO FIND THE RIGHT GURU! * Precisely. I've seen way too many people out there who announce: I was enlightened on such and such a day. Yeah, right. Next!!! LOL. *** WHY THE CYNICAL ATTITUDE? I KNOW WHEN I WAS ENLIGHTENED, WHEN I SAW GOD FACE TO FACE. ALL MY MOMENTOUS EVENTS ARE WRITTEN IN JOURNALS. HOW CAN YOU DISPARAGE THAT? IF YOU ARE SEEKING THE LIGHT, SHOULD YOU NOT BOW TO THOSE WHO HAVE IT AND RECEIVE IT FROM THEM? THAT IS WHAT THE GURU/DEVOTEE RELATIONSHIP IS ALL ABOUT. (RASA) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SECOND LETTER Re: Thank You from B Goat <gorakh@o...> wrote: > > Dear (Guru name withheld) * You must have been reading my mind. I was thinking it would be a great idea to have an ex SY group with someone like you to help clarify matters, someone with some authority. *** YOU ACCEPT AUTHORITY BUT THEN QUICKLY, YOU REBEL AGAINST IT. TERRIBLE EGO/PRIDE PROBLEM. * The eXSY group has been steadily deconstructing the lies, misinformation and confusion of SY and slowly replacing it with critical thinking and intelligent questioning. * However when it comes to subjects like shaktipat and kundalini, we are really speculating. *** AGAIN, YOU ARE HUNG UP ON TECHNIQUE AND MANNER RATHER THAN SUBMISSION, LOVE, HUMILITY.....NOTHING CAN TAKE PLACE WITHOUT THESE VIRTUES.....UNLESS YOU HAVE LOVE NO TECHNIQUE WILL TAKE YOU THERE QUICKLY. AT THE LEAST, IF ONE LOVES ONESELF AND RENOUNCES ALL THINGS BUT GOD, ONE CAN GET THERE. BUT LOVING A GURU AND RECEIVING THEIR POWER IS THE QUICKEST AND SUREST WAY. EVEN A SMALL SAINT OF A GURU IS BETTER THAN NONE. * It seems none of us really understands these things at all. *** YOU ARE A GROUP OF LOST SOULS, SEEKING A LEADER OR A DIRECTION. * Some even deny that there is any such thing as Kundalini or shaktipat, that its purely psychosomatic projection. I don't buy that line myself. *** PEOPLE DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE LIFE OF THE SPIRIT LEST THEY ARE BORN IN THE SPIRIT * However I also dont buy the stories we were spun in SY, which were really tailored to turn our thinking minds off and make us obedient sheep. * I have been reluctant to post on Guru_Satsang because of the presence of Miss Rasa. There are things I want to say that I do not want her to hear - not to throw pearls before swine, so to speak. *** GURU RASA IS A SWINE? TSK TSK, SHOW A LITTLE MORE RESPECT. HOW CAN YOU GET SOMETHING FROM ANY GURU WHEN YOU DISPARAGE THE SAINTS? THIS IS SIN. SIN BLOCKS THE GRACE OF GOD. SIN MAKES YOU INCAPABLE OF RECEIVING IT. (THE GURU (NOT RASA OBVIOUSY) SAYS): i can understand this ..... have no fear she will not grace this site ...... she will be banned .... she now has a site of her own and that should keep her occupied ..... back to Gorakh: * I must say I am impressed with the patient way you have dealt with her. It is one thing to preach compassion, quite another to practice it in what could be very trying circumstances. (THE GURU AGAIN SPEAKS ABOUT RASA ): she is trying .... her past is her past ..... most everyone has something in their past which is not sterling .... but must admit her past seems to be extremely shall we say colorful..... but be that as it may what is important is what is here and now .... so all who come get a chance ..... everyone has the same essence it is just some are a bit more covered over than others..... *** GURU RASA SPEAKS: TSK TSK, GURU. HERE YOU ARE PANDERING TO GORAKH, WHO WILL SOON TURN AGAINST YOU AND SPIT VILE AT YOU BEHIND YOUR BACK. AND WHAT IS RASA DOING? FIGHTING YOURS AND GOD'S ENEMIES ON GURU RATINGS AND EXSY. BE CAREFUL WHO YOU LIE DOWN WITH, AS YOU WILL GET FLEAS, OR MUD, OR SOMETHING. RASA BANNED? HAHAHA. RASA COVERED OVER? YES, WITH LIGHT ETERNAL, GOD'S HOLY LIGHT. * My experience of SY is perhaps different from others' in that I do not think I ever got anything like shaktipat there. *** ISN'T THAT OBVIOUS? YOU WERE NEVER BORN AGAIN, NEVER INITIATED. THE LIGHT OF GOD COULD NOT GET INTO YOU. AND HERE YOU ARE, STILL IN DARKNESS, STILL ATTACKING ALL OTHERS WHO DO HAVE THE LIGHT OF GOD IN THEM. YOU ARE SPIRITUALLY DEAD, AND IF YOU DIED RIGHT NOW YOU'D GO STRAIGHT TO HELL. REPENT OF YOUR SINS AND RECEIVE THE LIGHT OF GOD, SON, THAT IS MY BEST ADVISE TO YOU. * I did specifically pray not to have the light show experiences that were so common, but instead for > transformation, that is for the ego to be dissolved into the IS as you so nicely put it. Sadly I got neither. *** THERE IS ANOTHER PROBLEM. TELLING GOD WHAT TO DO. LET GOD BE GOD, AND YOU THE NO-NOTHING SINNER. JUST ASK GOD FOR HELP ON YOUR KNEES. DON'T OUTLINE THE GAMEPLAN OR PROGRAM TO GOD. AS A MATTER OF FACT, PHENOMENONS ARE ONE OF THE MAJOR WAYS GOD OPENS HEARTS, STRENGTHENS THEIR FAITH AND CONFIDENCE AND KEEPS THEM GOING. YOU NEED PHENOMENONS. THESE MARKERS GIVE YOU SOME IDEA OF WHERE YOU ARE AT WITH GOD. YOU NEED THESE SIGNPOSTS. WHAT MAKES YOU THINK YOU CAN TELL GOD YOU DON'T NEED THEM? IT'S LIKE SAYING TO GOD - JUST GIVE ME THE WHOLE MEGILLA BY A SHORTCUT. I NEED NO SIGNS FROM YOU ALONG THE WAY. JUST GET ME THERE RIGHT NOW. SO ARROGANT, SO STUPID. * I dont know if I have ever had any kind of Kundalini awakening. I do know God has always been a focus of my life, from birth and before. do consider myself to be a sincere seeker, albeit a lazy greatly ..... *** LASY FOR GOD, BUT NOT FOR SATAN'S WORK, OBVIOUSLY. POSTING VILE ON SITES WHEREVER MISCREANTS GATHER. * When I left SY, it left a huge gap. For a number of years I did no spiritual practice of any kind, and for the first time in my life there was no thinking about God. This made me uneasy at times as it was something I had identified myself with. It is only in the last couple of years that my spiritual life has started to re-emerge. * I have even started meditating again on (rare) *** WHEN YOU CAN GET AWAY FROM RANKING OUT OTHER PEOPLE AND SEEING THE SPLINTER IN THEIR EYE, WHILE HIDING THE BOARD IN YOUR OWN? occasions. I think I have a good intellectual grasp of the samadhi states but then again at times I feel like I'm not even a beginner >on the path. *** THE LATTER IS CORRECT * Sometimes I feel quite lost. *** YOU ARE * This all doesnt say much for SY does it. *** SY IS NOT THE PROBLEM. YOU ARE! * To have spent years living in an ashram practising earnestly *** YOU WERE NOT PRACTICING EARNESTLY. YOU THOUGHT YOU WERE, BUT YOU WERE NEVER BORN AGAIN AND SO YOUR PRACTICE HAD LITTLE OR NO RESULTS. YOUR FAILURE TURNED YOU INTO A BITTER AND ANGRY PERSON - PERHAPS WORSE THAN EVER BEFORE and to have so little to show for it. *** MUK. WANDERED FOR MANY YEARS DOING THIS AND THAT, LEARNING, BUT HE NEVER GOT THE INITIATION UNTIL HE WAS ABOUT 48. IT WAS HIS ARROGANCE. THIS PREVENTS GRACE. NOT A TOTAL WASTE, THE PAST, BUT BEARS LITTLE FRUIT. * I dont think it was a complete waste - just that I could have made more progress elsewhere or on my own. I have come to terms with the spiritual betrayal I felt. *** YOU BETRAYED YOURSELF. NOBODY COULD DO IT BETTER THAN YOU. SO BEAT YOURSELF UP FOR A CHANGE, THAT IS WHO DESERVES IT. * The question is where now from here? *** NOW GET THIS GORAKH, AND GET IT STRAIGHT. BECAUSE I AM NOT GOING TO TELL YOU A SECOND TIME. WHAT YOU NEED IS A HANDBOOK ON SIN. WHAT SIN IS, AND HOW TO AVOID IT. AND REPENT OF SIN. AND THEN SAY THE SINNER'S PRAYER. IT IS BEST FOR YOU TO CHOOSE A DEAD GURU, LIKE JESUS, OR KRISHNA OR SOMEONE, BECAUSE YOU HAVE A SERIOUS PROBLEM WITH PEOPLE, RESENTMENT, BITTERNESS AND SO ON. REALIZE YOU ARE A SINNER IN NEED OF SALVATION AND GET ON YOUR KNEES AND SAY, 'LORD, ENTER INTO MY HEART. TAKE ME, AN UNWORTHY SINNER, AND GIVE ME SALVATION. I PROMISE YOU THAT I WILL AMEND MY WAYS, RENOUNCE THE DEVIL AND ALL HIS WORKS AND ALL HIS PRETENSIONS, AND I WILL FOLLOW THE LIGHT.' ASSUME THAT THE LORD WILL ANSWER YOU AS GOD NEVER FAILS. NOW JUST TRUST, HAVE FAITH AND CONFIDENCE THAT ALMIGHTY GOD WILL BEGIN WORKING IN YOU. DO NOT TELL GOD WHAT TO, GET BEHIND GOD AND FOLLOW. JUST OBSERVE WHAT IS HAPPENING INSIDE YOU AND AROUND YOU, ALWAYS WORKING AGAINST YOUR SINS AND FORWARD INTO VIRTUE. STOP THINKING SO MUCH ABOUT TECHNIQUE AND KUNDALINI AND ALL THAT. 'DEAD PEOPLE CAN'T EAT.' A DEAD PERSON CANNOT RECEIVE GRACE. GET THE GRACE FIRST, BE BORN AGAIN, AND ALL THINGS WILL START TO HAPPEN. THIS IS THE BEGINNING, AND I TRUST THAT GOD WILL TAKE CARE OF THE REST FOR YOU. YOUR NEW GURU, RASA Discussions on this group and: isawgodandlived/?yguid=213672955 TastingSugar/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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