Guest guest Posted January 23, 2006 Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 GuruRatings , " Tony OClery " <aoclery> wrote: GuruRatings , " Durga " <durgaji108> wrote: > > GuruRatings , " Tony OClery " <aoclery> > wrote: > > > > GuruRatings , " Durga " <durgaji108> > wrote: > > > > > > GuruRatings , " Tony OClery " <aoclery> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Durga,IMHO, > > > > > > snip > > > > It is not logical for there to be a Universe that a bodiless > > Mukta > > > > is unaware of therefore it mustn't exist......... > > > > > > snip > > > ..........ONS...> > > > > > Hi > > > > > > What does the above sentence mean? Can you explain this more > > > thoroughly? I have no idea what you are saying here. > > > > > > Thanks, Durga > > > > > Namaste Durga, > > > > It is reported by the Sages that on Moksha the so called creation > > disappears. However whilst a Mukta is in body he/she sees the > world > > as an appearance. When a Mukta drops the body the tool or mind > which > > was used to perceive the world is also dropped. As the mind is > > dropped and the mind is what everything exists within, including > > the 'appearance of illusion; there is nothing to appear-it never > > happened...........Ajativada...........ONS...Tony. > > Hi Tony, > > I think that is a misunderstanding of what Sages > are saying. The creation disappears, in that > it is seen for what it is. An appearance, > can also be called something which has a > dependent reality. When the body of the jnani > drops, there is no more Self-ignorance to > continue on in the form of an individuated mind. > > However, what now is the jnani's experience? > The jnani's experience is the experience of > Ishwara, the experience of the whole. > > This may be very difficult to understand. It > certainly is for me. But this is what Vedanta > teaches. > > Everything does not exist in the individual mind. > That is solopsism. > > Here try this. From the standpoint of Brahman, > the absolute, nothing ever happened. From that > standpoint, there is no time, there is no space. > So from that standpoint nothing has ever happened. > > And I can know my Self as That. That is moksha. > > Innate and inherent to Brahman is Maya. The > power that projects the creation. Maya projects > from Brahman, time and space, without ever > changing or modifying Brahman in anyway. > > So yes, from the standpoint of Brahman nothing > ever happened. But Maya is. It has its own > 'order of reality.' Brahman is not without > the power of Maya. That is what > Vedanta teaches. And Maya is not a creation > of the individual mind. Maya, if one wants > to go this far, (and one can, and the Upanishads do) > is the mind of Brahman. > > You can liken this creation to a dream or a thought, > which projects from Brahman through the power of Maya. > From the standpoint of your individual mind do your > thoughts and dreams exist or not? They exist, and yet > they do not change who you really are. > > So from the standpoint of Brahman, this creation can > be likened to a dream or a thought, which projects > from Brahman through the power of Maya. It does not > change Brahman, but it cannot be said to have > no existence at all. Therefore it is said to have a > dependent, or apparent existence, which is called > mithya. > > But the creation, which is perceived through the minds > of many individuals, is not a product of any individual's mind. > > Durga > Namaste Durga, No Gaudapada is quite adamant about the non existence of illusion. Even in duality Maya is the Goddesss and the power, the illusion or creation is the so called appearance not Maya herself. Anthying to do with mind is not only unreal but non happening. Appearance, dream, projection, Maya, Saguna Brahman all disappear on bodiless moksha therefore never happened. If they did one is saying that Brahman is duality. For even the appearance must be mind and fine vibration therefore a duality is created but Brahman cannot be dual so it never happened.............Tony. --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2006 Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 GuruRatings , " Tony OClery " <aoclery> wrote: GuruRatings , " Durga " <durgaji108> wrote: > > > > > > > Namaste Durga, > > > > No Gaudapada is quite adamant about the non existence of illusion. > > Even in duality Maya is the Goddesss and the power, the illusion > or > > creation is the so called appearance not Maya herself. > > Anthying to do with mind is not only unreal but non happening. > > Appearance, dream, projection, Maya, Saguna Brahman all disappear > on > > bodiless moksha therefore never happened. If they did one is > saying > > that Brahman is duality. For even the appearance must be mind and > > fine vibration therefore a duality is created but Brahman cannot > be > > dual so it never happened.............Tony. > > > Hi Tony, > > Maybe you need to find a teacher who can explain this > to you better. Or maybe you are content with the > explanation you have. These are not the teachings as I have > been taught. It seems to me that you are missing something > here. > > I know myself as Brahman. Inherent to Brahman is > Maya. Therefore where is Maya? Maya is in me. > Not in me, the individual mind, but in me, > Brahman. Maya projects the creation from Brahman, > without changing Brahman in anyway. > Therefore all of this creation is me. > > And that is what sages and jnanis say. > (I've heard 'em). > > If you want to say it never happened that's > okay. > > But this sentence of yours > > " > Appearance, dream, projection, Maya, > Saguna Brahman all disappear on > > bodiless moksha therefore never happened. " > > is not what my teacher says, nor is it what > her teacher says. So I guess, we'll just > both have to wait and see. > > Durga Namaste, Well never mind what they say what does Durga think for herself, they cannot do your dying or moksha for you.....Your teachers are not going beyond the concept of Saguan which only has a certain validity or compassionate truth but ultimately did't happen...ONS..Tony. --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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