Fwd: The Varna System: Mimamsa

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advaitin , " hersh_b " <hershbhasin wrote:

 

> You have misunderstood what I said about Vedic sentences. I had

>not said that a Vedic sentence is not complete in itself. I had said

>that Vedartha, the One meaning in which all these mantras are

strung,

>together, is obtained by Mimamsa and not by construing the meanings

>of each sentence separately.

 

 

Sri Chittranjanji

 

Re: Mimamsa & Vedic interpretation

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

First please note that I did not provide the reference for my post

on " Devatas " . Most of the material was taken from Swami Dayanands

book " Light on the Vedas " .

 

Following your suit, I to will be withdrawing from the discussion

but before doing so let me point out that in the views of Swami

Dayanand Sarasvati and Sri Aurobindo, Jaimini who wrote the famous

sutras of purva mimamsa and Sayana gave a one sided picture of the

Vedas. According to Jaimini the only purpose of the mantras of the

Veda is their use in the performance of rituals. For the mimamsaka,

a

mantra has no other meaning except its use in the ritual. Sayana

Acharya focuses entirely on the rituals and gives detailed quotes

from the books which give the details of the performance of rites

like the Bodhayana Shrauta Sutras etc. He does not deny the

spiritual

viewpoint, but this is not his interest. Nowadays most of the

English

books on the outline of Hindu scriptures such as those of

Radhakrishnan or Zehner declare blindly that mantra Samhitas deal

only with rituals. Below mentioned are some of Jaimini 's views

which

the orthodox in the Hindu society accept without questioning.

 

Source:http://www.vedah.com/org2/literature/veda_books/vedic_interpre

t

ations.html

 

1. According to Jaimini the only purpose of the mantras of the

Veda is their use in the performance of rituals. Hence Jaimini

declared that the Brahmana books which gave the ritualist

explanations of the Veda mantras are as sacred as mantras.

 

2. Jaimini did not believe in the concept of devotion (bhakti)

or in the existence of Gods like Agni, Indra, etc. He stated that

the " correct performance of the rite " yields the fruits of Yajna

such

as long life, prosperity, sons, a place in heaven, etc. Who gives

the

benefits? Jaimini's answer is: it is the power of the words vak in

all the mantras in the ritual which gives the benefits. "

 

3. If Yajna does not yield the fruit such as sons or

prosperity, it is because the Yajna was not performed according to

the strict guidelines. The Brahmana books and the Shrauta sutras

spell out some details. Whenever there is a doubt about the choice

of

an act among several alternatives, one has to use the full power of

nyaya (logic) and tarka (inference) to find the correct decision

without any doubt. The reason why Sayana's commentary runs to four

thousand pages of small print is that he clarifies the supposedly

correct decision by quoting several texts.

 

4. For the mimamsaka, a mantra has no other meaning except its

use in the ritual. Consider a popular mantra, " agnim ile " . Jaimini

would say that the popular meaning is irrelevant since Agni as a

deity does not exist and as such " ile " " to call " has no meaning. So

we should not even ask " what is the meaning of mantra " .

 

5. Jaimini declares that many of the mantras from Rig Veda

Samhita which have no use in any rite are completely irrelevant.

 

Thus the mimamsaka with their extraordinary debating skills have

convinced most household brahmins (or their leaders) about the

complete validity of their views.

 

However Sayana had great reverence for the Veda and the Gods like

Agni, Indra; he believed that these Gods grant the desires of the

performer of Yajna. He believed that every mantra verse has a

meaning

related to the ritual. He accepts that some verses (Rig Veda 1.164)

may have a spiritual interpretation.

 

In the words of Aurobindo:

 

" Modern European scholarship (Max Muller et al) have followed

Sayana

and it has persuaded the mind of modern India in favour of the view

that the Rishis of the Veda were not only seers but singers and

priests of sacrifice, that their chants were written to be sung at

public sacrifices and refer constantly to the customary ritual and

seem to call for the outward objects of these ceremonies, wealth,

prosperity, victory over enemies. Sayana, the great commentator,

gives us a ritualistic and where necessary a tentatively mythical or

historical sense to the Riks, very rarely does he put forward any

higher meaning though sometimes he lets a higher sense come through

or puts it as an alternative as if in despair of finding out some

ritualistic or mythical interpretation. But still he does not reject

the spiritual authority of the Veda or deny that there is a higher

truth contained in the Riks. This last development was left to our

own times and popularised by occidental scholars. "

 

An Anecdotes

from :http://www.vedah.com/org2/literature/essence/anecdotes.html

 

Max Muller records an interesting incident. Freidrich Rosen was a

noted German scholar, one of the pioneers of western students who

turned to Vedic studies in the early years of the last century. It

appears one day when he was busy in the British Museum copying out

the hymns of the Rig Veda, Raja Rammohan Roy—the leading light of

the

Indian Renaissance—came in and was surprised, disagreeably, at the

work Rosen was engaged in. He admonished the scholar not to waste

any

time on the Vedas and advised him to take to the Upanishads instead.

We do not know if Rosen swallowed the advice at all obviously not.

For he was still engaged in the Veda at the time of his death and

his

edition of the First Book of the Rig Veda with Latin translation did

appear later. The incident is noteworthy for the light it sheds on

the mental attitude of the cultured and educated Indians of the time

towards the Veda. The outlook of the educated section of our

countrymen as regards the Vedic hymns has undergone little change

even after more than a century today. And this is no wonder. For

they

have but dutifully followed all along in the footsteps of the

European professors who have, as a class, studied and regarded the

Vedas, more as specimens of antiquarian and philological interest

than as records of any sustaining value. To them the Vedas are study-

worthy not for anything intrinsically significant but for the side-

lights they throw on the social and other conditions of their times.

By themselves the Vedic hymns are 'singularly deficient in

simplicity, natural pathos or sublimity', they have 'no sublime

poetry as in Isaiah or Job or the Psalms of David'. They are

primitive chants where 'cows and bullocks are praised in most

extravagant expressions' as among the 'Dinkas and Kaffirs in Africa

whose present form of economics must be fairly in agreement with

that

of the Vedic Aryan'. Even such a famous scholar as Oldenburg must

needs note that here is 'the grossly flattering garrulousness of an

imagination which loves the bright and the garish', while

Winterneitz

records, with approval evidently, that Leopold Von Schroder finds

similarity between some of these hymnal chants and 'notes written

down by insane persons which have been preserved by psychiatrists'.

 

Yaska Muni, Aurobindo & Dayanand

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yaska (Circa 1000 BCE or earlier) predates Sayana. He comments in

detail on a hundred suktas of Rigveda. He first vigorously answers

the critics of Veda like Kautsa who declared that Veda had no

meaning. He then declares that Veda has at least thrice levels of

meaning namely

 

1)the physical or naturalistic (adibhautic) interpretation in which

the various cosmic powers like Agni, Indra are regarded as the

physical powers of nature such as fire, rain etc.

 

2)the interpretation (adidaivic) of Veda as rituals or prayers for

the popular deities like Agni, Indra etc., here yajna is viewed as

external rites to please the deities who will give them favours.

 

3)The spiritual, psychological interpretation (adhyatmic) in which

everything both within man and cosmos is viewed as one aspect of the

Supreme One.

 

Swami Dayanand has based his commentary of the Rigveda on Yasaka

Nirukta, upholding the idea that Veda deals with dharma and giving

the adhyatmic meaning of mantras . Sri Aurobindo has commented that

Swami Dayanand has provided the clues for understanding the Vedas.

These three vedic scholars maintain that the Veda employs a double-

language method, because there are two distinct approaches prevalent

among human beings: one that relies on the senses, employs reason,

and holds the intellect in high regard; and the other that depends

on

revelation and inspiration, and employs intuition and insight. The

two approaches may be designated " practical " and " spiritual " .

 

Two-Fold Meaning of Mantras

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

source :

http://www.vedah.com/org2/literature/deeper_meaning/twofold_meaning.h

t

ml

 

A striking feature of the vedic verse or mantra is that it yields

several widely different interpretations. This is possible because

both common nouns like go, ashvah, adri and the proper nouns like

Agni, Indra, Vrtra, Vala, etc., yield two or more meanings. Thus one

can get different interpretations for the same verse by assigning

appropriate specific meanings for the common and proper nouns

occurring in the verse. This is true for many verses, not just

isolated ones. This feature is absent in most languages.

 

For the vedic sages, every aspect of the external nature is a symbol

of an aspect of the supreme spirit, called as ekam sat, That One.

 

For instance " go " in common usage is the quadruped animal cow. But

for the vedic sages each go represented a distinct ray of Light of

the Supreme. Recall that root meaning for deva deity is div, to

shine. Thus even in later literature, the animal cow was supposed to

be the home of all the Light or all the deities; so much so that

even

today in the temples of the supreme deity Vishnu, a cow is the first

one every morn to have the vision darshan of the deity Vishnu

symbolizing that all the other deities want to have the darshan of

the Supreme One.

 

Similarly ashva is the horse which symbolizes strength and all our

vital energies, the energies associated with our life-force prana.

 

Adri is commonly a hill or a mountain. Also it is a synonym of

cloud.

It is the standard symbol of something that is hard and unchanging,

specifically a symbol of the forces of ignorance and falsehood.Again

take Surya, also known as savitr. Its ordinary meaning is the

physical sun in the sky, the solar orb. But for the vedic sages,

Surya represents the supreme deity, the source of all Light,

spiritual and physical, the deity who supports the entire cosmos.

 

Now see how Aurobindo, Sayana & Griffith comment on the same mantras:

 

 

Verse (1.7.3)

 

gobhih adrim airayat

go: cow, water (Sayana), ray of knowledge

adri: cloud, force of ignoranc

airayat: destroy

 

Translation 1: (Indra) destroys the forces of ignorance with the

knowledge.(Aurobindo)

Translation 2: (Indra) charged the clouds with water [sayana].

Translation 3: (Indra) smashed the hill for getting the cows

[Griffith].

 

Translation 1 is the esoteric interpretation. It is difficult to

understand the translation 3. Supposedly the cows are hidden in the

caves by robbers. By smashing the hill, even the cows are destroyed

along with the hill. Translation 2 is acceptable but where is the

wisdom in

 

Verse (1.53.4)

 

nirundhano amatim gobhir ashvina;

nirundhano: dispel

amatim: ignorance, poverty [sayana]

gobhir: Light, cows

ashvina: Life-energy, horses

 

Translation 1: Dispel our ignorance using the Light and Life

energies. (Aurobindo)

Translation 2: Dispel our poverty by (giving us) cows and horses.

(Sayana)

 

Sayana does not tell us how he assigns the meaning poverty for amati.

 

Pranams

 

Hersh

 

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