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advaitin , " subrahmanian_v "

<subrahmanian_v wrote:

>

> --- > > hariH OM! tonyji,

> > >

> > > i got the information re purushottama yoga from ramana, but

> cannot

> > > find the reference.

> > >

> > > purushottama means supreme Self, and is therefore equivalent

to

> > > paramatman or parabrahman (nirguna brahman), which in bg: ch.

15

> > is

> > > what is being surrendered to (and is thus considered

parabhakthi

> > and

> > > not merely bhakthi [which, as i'm sure you know, is the

> surrender

> > to

> > > an ishta devata of saguna brahman]). therefore bg: ch. 15 has

> > > nothing to do with vishistadvaita.

> > >

> > > one of the more learned members of our community will correct

me

> > if

> > > i'm wrong.

> > >

> > > namaskaaram,

> > > frank

> > >

> > Namaste F-ji,

> >

> > Pardon me if give my opinion. Supreme Self is not Nirguna

Brahman

> by

> > description, it is the Saguna Brahman concept. Purusha is a man

or

> a

> > person, so Supreme Being, again Saguna not Nirguna. One cannot

> > surrender to NirGuna by description, so this is where I get my

> > description of partial advaita or visishtadvaita....ONS...Tony.

>

>

>

> Sub: 'Purushottama' in the Scriptures

>

> Namaste Tony ji,

>

> Trust this will interest you. The most familiar place where we

find

> this word 'Purushottama' is in the Gita Chapter XV. It would be

> beneficial to go through the four verses, 16, 17, 18 and 19 to get

a

> complete and correct meaning of the word. This is what Acharya

> Shankara says about this word (in all these verses put together):

>

> Verse 16 :Within samsara, there are two categories: Kshara, the

> perishable and Akshara, the (relatively) imperishable. These are

> the two upadhis, adjuncts, of the One spirit called the Purusha.

> Being upadhis of that Supreme Being, Purusha, these two are also

> figuratively called purushas , says Anandagiri. The perishable,

> kshara, comprises the whole universe of changing forms. The

> (relatively) imperishable, akshara, is the Maya Shakti, the

illusion

> power of the Lord. This akshara is the germ from which the

> perishable being takes its birth.

>

> (As an aside note, it would be helpful to bear in mind that the

> word 'Akshara', Imperishable, takes different meanings depending

on

> the context. Here, in this chapter it means the Maya shakti, the

> higher upadhi of Brahman. This same word Akshara occurs in the

> eighth chapter, verse 3. There it is Brahman Itself. All this is

> as per Acharya Shankara's commentary.)

>

> Verse 17: Uttama Purusha: is the Highest Spirit, untainted by the

> evils of the two upadhis, higher and lower, spoken of above as

> akshara and kshara. This Uttama Purusha is eternal, pure,

> intelligent and free by nature. This Uttama Purusha is quite

> distinct from the two upadhis. He is the Paramaatma = Supreme

Self.

> He is Parama, Supreme, as compared with the other embodied selves

> (jivas) set up by avidya. He is Atma, Self, that is, the

Innermost

> unfailing Consciousness of all beings.

>

> Verse 18: He is well-known in the world and the Vedas as

> Purushottama because He transcends both the kshara, the

perishable

> ( the tree of samsara spoken of in the beginning of this chapter)

> and the akshara, the (relatively) imperishable (the seed of the

tree

> of samsara). The uttamatva, superiority, of the Purusha, the

Self,

> is because of the transcending these two upadhis.

>

> Verse 19: He who knows Me , the Purushottama, he knowing all

> (Sarvavit), worships Me with his whole being. The Acharya,

> Bhagavatpada Shankara, says: Now, the fruit accruing to the one

who

> knows the Atma as specified in the foregoing is set forth: He who

> knows Me thus, being undeluded, as 'I am He',….

>

> Then the Acharya begins to delineate the 'grand finale' thus:

> A knowledge of the true nature of the Lord having been imparted in

> this discourse, a knowledge which leads to Moksha……The whole

> teaching of the Gita shastra has been summed up in this chapter.

> Not only of the Gita, the teaching of the whole of the Veda is

here

> embodied. …. On knowing this science as taught above, but not

> otherwise, a man becomes wise, Buddhimaan. He has accomplished

all

> duties, krta-krtyaH .

>

> Sri Madhusudana Saraswati in his commentary to the 18th verse

above

> says that the Lord has been referred to as Purushottama in the

Veda

> thus: 'sa UttamaH PurushaH', He is the Supreme Being, in the

> Chandogya Upanishad (viii. 12. 3). The Acharya's commentary for

this

> mantra is on these lines: There are four purushas: one each in the

> waking, dream and sleep states and the fourth is the Turiya. The

> Uttamatva, superiority is due to the transcendence of the Turiya

> over the other three. The Acharya says here that this has been

> explained by Himself in the Gitabhashya, what we saw above.

>

> A word about the word Prusha: This word is derived in Sanskrit in

> scriptural context thus: 1. Puri shayanaat purushaH = Because He

is

> dwelling, as Consciousness, in the body-city. 2. Purnatvaat

PurushaH

> = Because He is Purna, Ever Full (never wanting in anything). 3.

In

> the Mahanarayanopanishat, (Taittiriya Aranyaka just before the

> famous mantra 'na karmanaa na prajayaa..' there occurs this

> portion: 'tenedam purnam Purushena sarvam…' meaning, 'by Him all

> this is filled'…

>

> Now, to sum up, the Gita calls the Ultimate Truth by the name

> Purushottama. If this word could mean Saguna Brahman, our Acharya

> would not have commented, 'by knowing Him as 'I am He', aham

> Brahmasmi. This realisation alone would lead to Moksha,

liberation

> as the Acharya points out. It is impossible to have the

> realisation 'Aham Brahmasmi' in respect of Saguna Brahman. The

> knowledge of Saguna Brahman would not lead to Moksha, but here the

> Lord Himself says in the concluding verse that 'knowing Me thus

one

> becomes wise…'. And the Chandogya bhashyam calls the Purushottama

> as the Turiya, the transcendental Truth. The etymological meaning

> also supports this. Thus Purushottama of the Fifteenth Chapter is

> undoubtedly the Nirguna Brahman dear to your heart.

>

> Om Tat Sat

> Pranams

> subbu

>

Namaste Subbu-ji,

 

I find this very interesting and some thought must be spent on what

the Acharya said and even more important what he didn't say. 'I am

He' leads to Moksha and indicating this refers only to Nirguna

Brahman concept. Of course is is even logical to point out that one

cannot have Moksha in Saguna Brahman alone, for Saguna is with

atttributes.

'I Am' indicates 'being' therefore of course is Saguna Brahman, but

Saguna is not bound and is aware if its identity with Nirguna.

 

So my conclusion is that........yes if one were to remain with

Saguna, (which is ultimately impossible), that is not liberation or

Moksha, but unsaid is the fact that union with Saguna brings

realisation of Nirguna instantaneously.

 

This is no doubt whey there are different Samadhis, Savikalpa,

Nirivkalpa, Kevala and finally Sahaja. And then there is the

dropping of the residual body, and the final culmination in the

destruction of the ego and its adjuncts in favour of Ajativada or

destruction of illusion as well; considering the Ego is already

destroyed...................ONS...Tony