Fwd: Talk 487. #1

[Guest guest]

ThePowerOfSilence , " viorica " <viorica

wrote:

 

 

 

Talk 487.

 

An English lady, a young woman, came here dressed in a Muslim sari.

 

She had evidently been in North India and met Dr. G. H. Mees.

 

Sri Bhagavan read out a stanza " The Black Sun " from the anniversary

 

number of The Vision, written by Swami Bharatananda.

 

After a few minutes, Miss J. asked: One gathers from the stanza that

 

one should keep on meditating until one gets merged in the state of

 

consciousness. Do you think it right?

 

M.: Yes.

 

D.: I go further and ask: Is it right that one should, by conscious

will,

 

go into that state from which there is no return?

 

(No answer) - Dinner bell.

 

Afternoon

 

D.: What is the object of Self-Realisation?

 

M.: Self-Realisation is the final goal and it is the end in itself.

 

D.: l mean, what is the use of Self-Realisation?

 

M.: Why should you seek Self-Realisation? Why do you not rest content

 

with your present state? It is evident that you are discontented with

 

the present state. The discontent is at an end if you realise the

Self.

 

D.: What is that Self-Realisation which removes the discontent? I am

in the

 

world and there are wars in it. Can Self-Realisation put an end to

it?

 

M.: Are you in the world? Or is the world in you?

 

D.: I do not understand. The world is certainly around me.

 

M.: You speak of the world and happenings in it. They are mere ideas

 

in you. The ideas are in the mind. The mind is within you. And so

 

the world is within you.

 

D.: I do not follow you. Even if I do not think of the world, the

world

 

is still there.

 

M.: Do you mean to say that the world is apart from the mind and it

 

can exist in the absence of the mind?

 

D.: Yes.

 

M.: Does the world exist in your deep sleep?

 

D.: It does.

 

M.: Do you see it in your sleep?

 

D.: No, I don't. But others, who are awake, see it.

 

M.: Are you so aware in your sleep? Or do you become aware of the

 

other's knowledge now?

 

D.: In my waking state.

 

M.: So you speak of waking knowledge and not of sleep-experience. The

 

existence of the world in your waking and dream states is admitted

 

because they are the products of the mind. The mind is withdrawn in

 

sleep and the world is in the condition of a seed. It becomes

manifest

 

over again when you wake up. The ego springs forth, identifies itself

 

with the body and sees the world. So the world is a mental creation.

 

D.: How can it be?

 

M.: Do you not create a world in your dream? The waking state also

 

is a long drawn out dream. There must be a seer behind the waking

 

and dream experiences. Who is that seer? Is it the body?

 

D.: It cannot be.

 

M.: Is it the mind?

 

D.: It must be so.

 

M.: But you remain in the absence of the mind.

 

D.: How?

 

M.: In deep sleep.

 

D.: l do not know if I am then.

 

M.: If you were not how do you recollect yesterday's experiences? Is

it

 

possible that there was a break in the continuity of the `I' during

sleep?

 

D.: It may be.

 

M.: If so, a Johnson may wake up as a Benson. How will the identity

 

of the individual be established?

 

D.: I don't know.

 

M.: If this argument is not clear, follow a different line. You admit

 

" I slept well " , " I feel refreshed after a sound sleep " . So sleep was

 

your experience. The experiencer now identifies himself with the

 

`I' in the speaker. So this `I' must have been in sleep also.

 

D.: Yes.

 

M.: So `I' was in sleep, if the world was then there, did it say

that it

 

existed?

 

D.: No. But the world tells me its existence now. Even if I deny its

 

existence, I may knock myself against a stone and hurt my foot.

 

The injury proves the existence of the stone and so of the world.

 

M.: Quite so. The stone hurts the foot. Does the foot say that there

 

is the stone?

 

D.: No. - `I'.

 

M.: Who is this `I'? It cannot be the body nor the mind as we have

 

seen before. This `I' is the one who experiences the waking, dream

 

and sleep states. The three states are changes which do not affect

 

the individual. The experiences are like pictures passing on a screen

 

in the cinema. The appearance and disappearance of the pictures

 

do not affect the screen. So also, the three states alternate with

one

 

another leaving the Self unaffected. The waking and the dream

 

states are creations of the mind. So the Self covers all. To know

 

that the Self remains happy in its perfection is Self-Realisation.

Its

 

use lies in the realisation of Perfection and thus of Happiness.

 

D.: Can it be complete happiness to remain Self-realised if one does

 

not contribute to the happiness of the world? How can one be

 

so happy when there is a war in Spain, a war in China? Is it not

 

selfishness to remain Self-realised without helping the world?

 

M.: The Self was pointed out to you to cover the universe and also

 

transcend it. The world cannot remain apart from the Self. If the

 

realisation of such Self be called selfishness that selfishness must

 

cover the world also. It is nothing contemptible.

 

D.: Does not the realised man continue to live just like a non-

realised

 

being?

 

M.: Yes, with this difference that the realised being does not see

the

 

world as being apart from the Self, he possesses true knowledge and

 

the internal happiness of being perfect, whereas the other person

 

sees the world apart, feels imperfection and is miserable. Otherwise

 

their physical actions are similar.

 

D.: The realised being also knows that there are wars being waged

 

in the world, just like the other man.

 

M.: Yes.

 

D.: How then can he be happy?

 

M.: Is the cinema screen affected by a scene of fire burning or sea

 

rising? So it is with the Self.

 

The idea that I am the body or the mind is so deep that one cannot

get

 

over it even if convinced otherwise. One experiences a dream and

knows

 

it to be unreal on waking. Waking experience is unreal in other

states.

 

So each state contradicts the others. They are therefore mere changes

 

taking place in the seer, or phenomena appearing in the Self, which

is

 

unbroken and remains unaffected by them. Just as the waking, dream

 

and sleep states are phenomena, so also birth, growth and death are

 

phenomena in the Self. which continues to be unbroken and unaffected.

 

Birth and death are only ideas. They pertain to the body or the

mind. The

 

Self exists before the birth of this body and will remain after the

death of

 

this body. So it is with the series of bodies taken up in

succession. The

 

Self is immortal. The phenomena are changeful and appear mortal. The

 

fear of death is of the body. It is not true of the Self. Such fear

is due to

 

ignorance. Realisation means True Knowledge of the Perfection and

 

Immortality of the Self. Mortality is only an idea and cause of

misery.

 

You get rid of it by realising the Immortal nature of the Self.

 

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