Fwd: Atman experience, liberation in time, etc

[Guest guest]

advaitin , " Sundar Rajan " <avsundarrajan

wrote:

 

Namaste Shyam-ji

>

> Hence to entertain notions about " me " experienceing

> " brahman " or " me " knowing " brahman " objectively do not

> represent " schools " of vedanta, they simply represent

> grave misunderstandings of vedanta.

>

> One cannot therefore have a timebound " brief " glimpse

> of Brahman. One cannot have a timebound brief

> " subjective experience " of Brahman either. If at the

> end of this trance you say - " I " experienced " brahman "

> - then what you experienced was with certitude other

> than brahman.

>

 

As I mentioned before, these discussions are making me take a closer

look at my own understanding..

 

Sankara says in Gita 6.26 commenting on the verse 'yato yato

niscarati' :

 

// evam yogabhyasabhalat yoginah atmanyeva prasamyati manah //

 

// Thus, through the power of practice of Yoga, the mind of the yogi

merges in the Self Itself. //

 

Here the " practice " is the practice of meditation (dhyana) as it is

obvious from the verses preceding it and also by the Gita verse

itself " (The yogi) should bring (this mind) under the subjugation of

the Self Itself, by restraining it from all those causes whatever

due to which the restless, unsteady mind wanders away. "

 

I don't know what your reading of Sankara's words would be but to me

it seems very clear that Sankara is clearly talking about a time-

bound practice resulting in " the mind of the yogi merging in the

Self Itself. "

 

So, if we apply the logic from your message, Sankara surely must

have a grave misunderstanding of Vedanta :-)

 

In fact, His misunderstanding is even more 'graver' because a couple

of verses later Sankara also says that this same 'practice' also

leads to the Ultimate!.

 

//

" idanim yogasya phalan brahmaikatva darsanam sarvasamsara

vicchedakaranam tat pradarsyate "

 

(6.28) Now is being shown that result of Yoga which is the

realization of identity with Brahman and which is the cause of the

extinction of the whole mundane existence.

//

 

Not only Sankara but Sri Ramana also mentions about a time-bound,

sequenced process:

(advaitin/message/33520)

 

//

one should completely

surrender one's mind, turn it inwards and see `you' the Self

within and then see the Self in `you' in everything.

//

and AGAIN

//

It is only after seeing the Self within that one will be able to see

the Self in everything.

//

 

and AGAIN

//

One must first realise there is nothing but the

Self and that he is that Self , and then only he can see everything

as the form of the Self.

//

 

Sri Ramana repeats this THREE times! The very fact there is a FIRST

and a NEXT step tells me there is a sequence involved and this is a

process in TIME.

 

So does Sri Ramana too have a 'grave misunderstanding of Vedanta'?

 

Finally, let me point to some passages in a book held in very high

esteem by Sri Ramana (Tripura Rahasya). The passage in chapter 17

describes the process for liberation

 

//

I shall now tell you the scheme of liberation.

63. One learns true devotion to God after a meritorious

life continued in several births, and then worships Him for a

long time with intense devotion.

64. Dispassion for the pleasures of life arises in a devotee

who gradually begins to long for knowledge of the truth and

becomes absorbed in the search for it.

65. He then finds his gracious Master and learns from

him all about the transcendental state. He has now gained

theoretical knowledge.

[Note: This is Sravana.]

66. After this he is impelled to revolve the whole matter

in his mind until he is satisfied from his own practical

knowledge with the harmony of the scriptural injunctions

and the teachings of his Master. He is able to ascertain

the highest truth with clearness and certitude.

[Note: This is Manana.]

67. The ascertained knowledge of the Oneness of

the Self must afterwards be brought into practice, even

forcibly if necessary, until the experience of the truth occurs

to him.

[Note: This is Nidhidhyasana.]

68. After experiencing the Inner Self, he will be able

to identify the Self with the Supreme and thus destroy the

root of ignorance. There is no doubt of it.

69. The inner Self is realised in advanced

contemplation and that state of realisation is called

nirvikalpa samadhi.

Memory of that realisation enables one to identify

the Inner Self with the Universal Self (as `I am That').

 

[Commentary: Contemplation is designated in its progressive

stages, as savikalpa samadhi (qualified samadhi) and

nirvikalpa samadhi (unqualified samadhi). Dhyana (contemplation)

leads to the repose consequent on the resolve that

the mind in its absolute purity is only the Self. There are

interruptions by thought obtruding in the earlier stages.

Then the practice goes by the name of Dhyana. When the

repose remains smooth and uninterrupted for some appreciable

time, it is called savikalpa samadhi. If by its constant

practice, the repose ensues without any previous resolve

(i.e., effortlessly) and continues uninterrupted for some

time, it is called nirvikalpa samadhi. The Inner Self glows

in all its purity, in the last stage.

 

After rising from it, the memory of the uncommon

experience of the Self remains; it enables him to identify

the transcendence of the one with that same One which is

in all.] (This is the Sahaja State, as is often said by Sri

Ramana. Translator.)

//

 

Please see how closely the above 'scheme' corresponds to the

sequence indicated by Bhagavan Krishna Himself in verses 25-30 of

the 6th chapter of Gita and Sankara's commentary on it:

 

1. Highest Instruction about yoga:

'atma samstham manah krtva na kincidapi cintayet' (6.25)

Making the mind fixed in the Self, one should not think of ANYTHING

WHATSOEVER.

 

2. Culmination in the practice of yoga = Samadhi:

// evam yogabhyasabhalat yoginah atmanyeva prasamyati manah // 6.26

Thus, through the power of practice of Yoga, the mind of the yogi

merges in the Self Itself.

 

3. Result of the practice of Yoga:

// idanim yogasya phalan brahmaikatva darsanam sarvasamsara

vicchedakaranam tat pradarsyate // 6.28

Now is being shown that result of Yoga which is the realization of

identity with Brahman and which is the cause of the extinction of

the whole mundane existence.

 

4. The fruit of this realization of the unity of the Self:

One who sees Me in everything, and sees all things in Me-I do not

out of his vision, and he also is not lost to My vision. 6.30

 

 

regards

Sundar Rajan

 

--- End forwarded message ---