Isvara is Karma .

[Guest guest]

- In advaitin , Putran Maheshwar <putranm wrote:

 

Sri Shyamji,

 

Thank you for your lucid post. It is quite clear, but I think the

last sentence really hits the mark. That is where the subjective

thrust of Advaita really is. The objective version almost misleads,

and let me mention why (please correct if wrong).

 

" Ishvara is non-different from His Order ... one begets fruit of one's

karma ... bestows this karmaphala itself is Ishvara. "

 

The karmin-karma-karmaphala-karmaphaladhata all four are within the

Order. Can one put a demarcating line where jiva ends and karma

begins. The karma-karmaphala flux constitutes the entire Order – we

are not even allowed to separate the chaitanya of the jiva from the

rest of the Order. So the jiva itself is only a product, a set of

limiting-adjuncts through which

Ishvara (the " Order " ) realizes Identity.

 

However the objective version always tries to put the karmin as real

and receiving karma-phala from the remaining Order. Moreover it makes

out Ishvara as the Consciousness that bestows the phala. This forces

the karmin to identify Ishvara as a Grand Individual Mind

possessing a Locus of Identity parallel to itself.

 

This misconception is denied, and alternatively Ishvara is affirmed as

" the Chaitanyam that is

immanent in and through every pore of manifest srshti. " This is very

nice to read, but can the karmin really understand this? Karmin, the

individual, is affirmed, but Ishvara is non-individualized. The Name

itself suggests still an Individual although the concept is now like

some homogeneous identity-less Blob reacting to the karmin's actions.

Ishvara appears

as an " Ocean of Consciousness without a locus " .

 

In the last sentence, the truth is revealed " in a sublation of me,

who was never Real. Then Being Is. " Therefore Identity is Reality, but

that Identity of the karmin is the Identity of the Order – of Ishvara

– of the Whole without the limitations. The objective version of

Ishvara is false simply because it rests on the duality of

karmin-karmaphalaDhata, which is " never Real " . I am that Ishvara who

has arisen as this mind, as Putran and as the Universe.

 

 

_______________________

 

Now the actual practisioner (Bhaktha) may bypass these subtleties;

but a rational mind is keenly sensitive to double-play and continues

to wonder this " Isvara " is merely self-delusion to begin with. One

cannot do anything " for Isvara " -- that is non-individual. So all

doing comes down to the Self (or self?) as Br. Up. suggests -- for I

alone am!! But then the mind asks if I alone am, why should I fool

myself into doing this or that? I am free from all compulsion. Then

the stomach says " I am hungry " -- work and enslave yourself in bondage

so you can feed me!

 

It is a vicious cycle of confusion.

 

thollmelukaalkizhu

 

 

 

shyam_md <shyam_md wrote:

Pranams.

I have been greatly enjoying the stimulating series of posts over the

past few days, and wish my time-constraints would permit me a more

active involvement. I esp enjoyed reading Rishi-ji's(what a apt name!)

and Padma-ji's excellent and lucid posts.

 

I am happy to share some thoughts based on my understanding.

 

The concept of " God " as a individual person - either a very old man in

white robes beyond the pearly gates, or a Kaislash-pati, or a shankha-

chakra-gada-wielding Lord of Vaikuntha - is perhaps what may be

considered on a superficial level to be alien to Advaita, and perhaps

this concept is what some people feel gets " sublated " .

 

Advaita considers Ishwara to be non-different from His Order. There is

a Divine Perfect Order in play in manifest Srshti. One aspect of this

Order is that one begets the fruits of one's karma, one's actions.

This Order that faithfully bestows this karmaphala itself is Ishwara.

So every karmaphala is His Grace.

 

Lets take a simple example

I play with fire - karma

- my hand gets scorched - karmaphala - in other words, Ishwara.

 

What was the anugraha - I learn not to play with fire again.

I learn, I mature, I evolve.

 

The culmination of all learning, all maturity, all evolution - is

moksha - I learn about my nonseparateness from Him.

 

Once this is clear, then every knock in life which we face as a karma-

phala is nothing but Ishwara's anugraha.

 

So we look upon Ishwara not as a person who is watching a live

telecast about " His creation " and then deciding when and on whom to

bestow Grace

but

as the very Intelligence, the Chaitanyam that is immanent in and

through every pore of manifest srshti.

 

And it is this Intelligence delivers the goods, the Grace.

 

When I pray, I tap into that Grace.

The Grace is ever present in potential form.

My prayer is a karma that helps me invoke It for my benefit.

 

What more Grace can even the Paramtman bestow than to help me reap the

fruits of my actions. And can anything He bestows be considered

anything other than Grace. He is powerless to bestow on anyone

anything but His Grace.

 

Take the mahamrtyunjaya mantra

 

OM Tryambakam Yajamahe Sugandhim Pushtivardhanam

Urvarukamiva Bandhanam Mrityor Mukshiya Mamritat

 

We worship the three-eyed Lord (Siva) who is full of

sweet fragrance and nourishes us human beings. May he

deliver me from bondage into immortality, even as the

cucumber is severed from the vine.

 

What is beautiful in this example is that as the

cucumber is ripened the creeper itself lets go of it

-with no effort to break away from the cucumber..the

cucumber (unlike other fruits) doesnt fall - it stays

where it is!....maya or avidya lets go of you when

with a supremely purified mind the words of the

mahavakyas are understood by you - this is the

meaning. And whose Grace does the cucumber need to grow

and obtain nourishment so it matures - the gardener -

" pushtivardanam " - Ishwara! How beautiful!

 

Through Grace alone, does the jiva mature, and through Grace alone

does he ultimately attain the Self of Being.

 

I may said this before - Ishwara as Paramatman never gets sublated -

it is not a conceptual crutch that an unprepared seeker holds onto

only to discard it when his mind is more prepared - that is never what

advaita is about - what happens when the seeker matures is that

the " seeking " gets sublated, the " phantom ego " which was involved in

the " search " realizes that what Is real about him is only the Is-ness

and that Is-ness is the only thing real about Ishwara as well.

 

" Ishwar Satya Hai, Satya Hi Shiv Hai, Shiv Hi Sundar Hai, Jaago Uthkar

Dekho, Ye Jeevan Jyot Ujaagar Hai "

 

" Ishwara is the only thing that is True, and What is True is what is

Auspicious, what is Blissful, Wake up O Mind and see that Life is

nothing but Living Consciousness. "

 

If there is any " imagination " involved it may simply be in a name and

form that this phantom jeeva projects onto the Whole, the Divine.

 

And for Him who is beyond Forms, and for Him who is beyond Names, any

name and any form that i, the ignorant mind, wants to project to have

an altar to worship, to have an " entity " i want to relate it, is

perfectly fine. I cannot exactly talk to the very vastu that enables

speech, I cannot see that by vitue of which sight is, but I can

certainly relate to a Ganesha or a Shiva or a Jesus or a Divine

Mother - and of all the other ephemereal relationships that i the

ignoramus persist in fostering and nurturing, this is the one

relationship I know is as Real as I know I am Real. And in this

cognition there is freedom - a space which is safe and sacred - where

the mind can rest and ponder on the Real, the Whole, and on me, and on

how i relate to the Real, the Whole.

 

What this process culminates in is not a sublation of the Whole, who

Is always Real, but in a sublation of me, who was never Real. Then

Being Is.

 

Hari Om

Shri Gurubhyo namah

Shyam

 

 

advaitin , " putranm " <putranm@> wrote:

>

> advaitin , " risrajlam " <rishi.lamichhane@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Vinayaka,

> >

> > I remember Shankara identifying karma-phala and ishvara anugraha

> > somewhere in the BGB, and I will try to track that down. (