Guest guest Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 GuruRatings , " Tony OClery " <aoclery wrote: GuruRatings , ecirada <ecirada@> wrote: > > Tony OClery wrote: > > Namaste, > > > > You may have to copy and paste this.......but it is fantastically > > interesting and turns everyone into Siva. > > > > > > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml? > > xml=/earth/2007/11/21/scicosmos121.xml & CMP=ILC-mostviewedbox > > > > > Tony, a next time, please add a warning one shouldn't read such an article > with a full mouth. This article could be a contender for the Guinness book > of records as the funniest story about quantum effects. Observation of an > object requires reflection (light, sound) and the particles involved > (photons, > phonons) have an impact on the object, negligible on large objects, > noticeable > on small objects like molecules and atoms. Strictly speaking, propulsion > with > a large sail 'hit' by the solar wind, is a large scale result of a small > scale > quantum effect. The sun isn't affected by that, and the earth isn't repelled > from the sun since humans discovered the sun does a blow job :-D > Namaste Jan, " The damaging allegations are made by Profs Lawrence Krauss of Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland, Ohio, and James Dent of Vanderbilt University, Nashville, who suggest that by making this observation in 1998 we may have caused the cosmos to revert to an earlier state when it was more likely to end. " Incredible as it seems, our detection of the dark energy may have reduced the life- expectancy of the universe, " Prof Krauss tells New Scientist. The team came to this depressing conclusion by calculating how the energy state of our universe - a kind of summation of all its particles and all their energies - has evolved since the big bang of creation 13.7 billion years ago. " However Jan this doesn't take into accoung the mind or universal mahat which we all really are in illusion. So at the level of prakriti or potentiality the change occurs.........It occurs in consciousness itself....... --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 GuruRatings , " Tony OClery " <aoclery wrote: GuruRatings , " Tony OClery " <aoclery@> wrote: > > GuruRatings , ecirada <ecirada@> wrote: > > > > Tony OClery wrote: > > > Namaste, > > > > > > You may have to copy and paste this.......but it is fantastically > > > interesting and turns everyone into Siva. > > > > > > > > > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml? > > > xml=/earth/2007/11/21/scicosmos121.xml & CMP=ILC-mostviewedbox > > > > > > > > Tony, a next time, please add a warning one shouldn't read such an > article > > with a full mouth. This article could be a contender for the > Guinness book > > of records as the funniest story about quantum effects. Observation > of an > > object requires reflection (light, sound) and the particles > involved > > (photons, > > phonons) have an impact on the object, negligible on large objects, > > noticeable > > on small objects like molecules and atoms. Strictly speaking, > propulsion > > with > > a large sail 'hit' by the solar wind, is a large scale result of a > small > > scale > > quantum effect. The sun isn't affected by that, and the earth isn't > repelled > > from the sun since humans discovered the sun does a blow job :-D > > > Namaste Jan, > > " The damaging allegations are made by Profs Lawrence Krauss of Case > Western Reserve University in Cleveland, Ohio, and James Dent of > Vanderbilt University, Nashville, who suggest that by making this > observation in 1998 we may have caused the cosmos to revert to an > earlier state when it was more likely to end. " Incredible as it > seems, our detection of the dark energy may have reduced the life- > expectancy of the universe, " Prof Krauss tells New Scientist. > > The team came to this depressing conclusion by calculating how the > energy state of our universe - a kind of summation of all its > particles and all their energies - has evolved since the big bang of > creation 13.7 billion years ago. " > > However Jan this doesn't take into accoung the mind or universal > mahat which we all really are in illusion. So at the level of > prakriti or potentiality the change occurs.........It occurs in > consciousness itself....... Namaste, This is a bit like my idea of everything being a wheel and the spokes are the lives and possibilities, the hub concentrates on one spoke although the others co-exist in the no time state, and so creating that spoke or life or whatever. This also explains karma and indicates that it is a memory, not necessarily a fact written in stone in one dimension so to speak. In other words there are infinite possibilities for the results of an action, in infinite universes. The result could be different in every dimension of the mind dimensions. So it is the memory that searches the possibility of paying off karma, and it is not as simple as an action has a reaction. What type of reaction, does the mind seek and in which dimension is it paid. This of course proves that there are infinite possibilities in a dream, and any permutation one wants. Just adds up to ultimately Ajativada...............Tony. --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 advaitajnana , " Tony OClery " <aoclery wrote: > > GuruRatings , " Tony OClery " <aoclery@> wrote: > > GuruRatings , " Tony OClery " <aoclery@> wrote: > > > > GuruRatings , ecirada <ecirada@> wrote: > > > > > > Tony OClery wrote: > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > > > You may have to copy and paste this.......but it is > fantastically > > > > interesting and turns everyone into Siva. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml? > > > > xml=/earth/2007/11/21/scicosmos121.xml & CMP=ILC-mostviewedbox > > > > > > > > > > > Tony, a next time, please add a warning one shouldn't read such > an > > article > > > with a full mouth. This article could be a contender for the > > Guinness book > > > of records as the funniest story about quantum effects. > Observation > > of an > > > object requires reflection (light, sound) and the particles > > involved > > > (photons, > > > phonons) have an impact on the object, negligible on large > objects, > > > noticeable > > > on small objects like molecules and atoms. Strictly speaking, > > propulsion > > > with > > > a large sail 'hit' by the solar wind, is a large scale result of > a > > small > > > scale > > > quantum effect. The sun isn't affected by that, and the earth > isn't > > repelled > > > from the sun since humans discovered the sun does a blow job :- D > > > > > Namaste Jan, > > > > " The damaging allegations are made by Profs Lawrence Krauss of Case > > Western Reserve University in Cleveland, Ohio, and James Dent of > > Vanderbilt University, Nashville, who suggest that by making this > > observation in 1998 we may have caused the cosmos to revert to an > > earlier state when it was more likely to end. " Incredible as it > > seems, our detection of the dark energy may have reduced the life- > > expectancy of the universe, " Prof Krauss tells New Scientist. > > > > The team came to this depressing conclusion by calculating how the > > energy state of our universe - a kind of summation of all its > > particles and all their energies - has evolved since the big bang > of > > creation 13.7 billion years ago. " > > > > However Jan this doesn't take into accoung the mind or universal > > mahat which we all really are in illusion. So at the level of > > prakriti or potentiality the change occurs.........It occurs in > > consciousness itself.......> > Namaste, > > This is a bit like my idea of everything being a wheel and the spokes > are the lives and possibilities, the hub concentrates on one spoke > although the others co-exist in the no time state, and so creating > that spoke or life or whatever. > This also explains karma and indicates that it is a memory, not > necessarily a fact written in stone in one dimension so to speak. In > other words there are infinite possibilities for the results of an > action, in infinite universes. The result could be different in every > dimension of the mind dimensions. > So it is the memory that searches the possibility of paying off > karma, and it is not as simple as an action has a reaction. What type > of reaction, does the mind seek and in which dimension is it paid. > > This of course proves that there are infinite possibilities in a > dream, and any permutation one wants. Just adds up to ultimately > Ajativada...............Tony. Namaste, Perhaps it is the act of the mind looking at itself, and this awareness brings about the pralaya of the universe. If it was left in ignorance perhaps it would keep expanding...isn't that what humans do never mind quantum mechanics?..Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2007 Report Share Posted November 24, 2007 advaitajnana , " Tony OClery " <aoclery wrote: > > advaitajnana , " Tony OClery " <aoclery@> > wrote: > > > > GuruRatings , " Tony OClery " <aoclery@> wrote: > > > > GuruRatings , " Tony OClery " <aoclery@> wrote: > > > > > > GuruRatings , ecirada <ecirada@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Tony OClery wrote: > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > > > > > You may have to copy and paste this.......but it is > > fantastically > > > > > interesting and turns everyone into Siva. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml? > > > > > xml=/earth/2007/11/21/scicosmos121.xml & CMP=ILC-mostviewedbox > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tony, a next time, please add a warning one shouldn't read such > > an > > > article > > > > with a full mouth. This article could be a contender for the > > > Guinness book > > > > of records as the funniest story about quantum effects. > > Observation > > > of an > > > > object requires reflection (light, sound) and the particles > > > involved > > > > (photons, > > > > phonons) have an impact on the object, negligible on large > > objects, > > > > noticeable > > > > on small objects like molecules and atoms. Strictly speaking, > > > propulsion > > > > with > > > > a large sail 'hit' by the solar wind, is a large scale result > of > > a > > > small > > > > scale > > > > quantum effect. The sun isn't affected by that, and the earth > > isn't > > > repelled > > > > from the sun since humans discovered the sun does a blow job :- > D > > > > > > > Namaste Jan, > > > > > > " The damaging allegations are made by Profs Lawrence Krauss of > Case > > > Western Reserve University in Cleveland, Ohio, and James Dent of > > > Vanderbilt University, Nashville, who suggest that by making this > > > observation in 1998 we may have caused the cosmos to revert to an > > > earlier state when it was more likely to end. " Incredible as it > > > seems, our detection of the dark energy may have reduced the life- > > > expectancy of the universe, " Prof Krauss tells New Scientist. > > > > > > The team came to this depressing conclusion by calculating how > the > > > energy state of our universe - a kind of summation of all its > > > particles and all their energies - has evolved since the big bang > > of > > > creation 13.7 billion years ago. " > > > > > > However Jan this doesn't take into accoung the mind or universal > > > mahat which we all really are in illusion. So at the level of > > > prakriti or potentiality the change occurs.........It occurs in > > > consciousness itself.......> > > > Namaste, > > > > This is a bit like my idea of everything being a wheel and the > spokes > > are the lives and possibilities, the hub concentrates on one spoke > > although the others co-exist in the no time state, and so creating > > that spoke or life or whatever. > > This also explains karma and indicates that it is a memory, not > > necessarily a fact written in stone in one dimension so to speak. > In > > other words there are infinite possibilities for the results of an > > action, in infinite universes. The result could be different in > every > > dimension of the mind dimensions. > > So it is the memory that searches the possibility of paying off > > karma, and it is not as simple as an action has a reaction. What > type > > of reaction, does the mind seek and in which dimension is it paid. > > > > This of course proves that there are infinite possibilities in a > > dream, and any permutation one wants. Just adds up to ultimately > > Ajativada...............Tony. > > Namaste, > > Perhaps it is the act of the mind looking at itself, and this > awareness brings about the pralaya of the universe. If it was left in > ignorance perhaps it would keep expanding...isn't that what humans do > never mind quantum mechanics?..> Namaste, Having said all that; All quantum mechanics is within the mind and subtle body only. We all go beyond that in deep sleep daily.....Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2007 Report Share Posted November 25, 2007 GuruRatings , " Tony OClery " <aoclery wrote: > > Namaste, > > I'm sorry that this scientific theory doesn't support superstition. > However quantum theory is a fact and I have a book from a conference > of Indian scientists where they translate the scientific theories > into religious jargon such as purusha prakriti, siva sakti etc etc. > Very interesting and obviously in the distant past of a past > civilisation they knew the knowledge would be lost and therefore > couched it in religious or superstitious terms to preserve it. > Knowing that the general public is generally superstitious. When I > say superstitious I am not a rationalist or denying psychism, just > the use of religion as a superstition by manipulative priests and > hokum salesmen.....After all Hiranyakasipu was said to have > penetrated matter completely, this is just a repeat and it shows that > religion and so called spirituality can be misused....Tony. > ##VG## > Dear Tony, > Siva is only a symbol of the destructive aspect of the universe. And if observing the dark energy must have accelerated the destruction of the universe, then for thousands of years people were observing the Sun, Moon and the Stars and this should have accelerated much more the destruction of the Universe. I feel either it is meant as a joke by the scientist and quoted out of context or the scientist must have told something else and the press people must have quoted something else. Regards Venugopal' Namaste V, One has to think of the universal mind being the Mahat and it projects prana and akasha as unified fields. The process of moksha is to turn the mind back into the mind and reverse the manifestation so to speak. Well scientists observing quantum and sub quantum energy/matter are starting to observe the periphery of the subtle mind. Observing the moon which is gross matter is no different from observing ones own body or a tree. However starting to observe the subtle is a kind of meditation where the human consciousness is involved more with the larger mind. So this is making the larger mind more aware by definition; So why wouldn't it reverse the process for the universe as it does for the human jiva? How many universes are there? they are infinite each one a body so to speak...as is above so is below......... --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2007 Report Share Posted November 25, 2007 GuruRatings , " Tony OClery " <aoclery wrote: GuruRatings , " Tony " <tonyco@> wrote: > > > > > > _____ > > GuruRatings [GuruRatings ] On > Behalf Of ecirada > Monday, 26 November 2007 5:35 a.m. > GuruRatings > Re: [GuruRatings] Re: Mankind destroying the universe or Siva? > > > > Tony wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > HYPERLINK > " GuruRatings " GuruRatings@ [HYPERLINK > " GuruRatings " GuruRatings@] On > Behalf Of Tony OClery > > Sunday, 25 November 2007 7:09 a.m. > > HYPERLINK > " GuruRatings " GuruRatings@ > > [GuruRatings] Re: Mankind destroying the universe or Siva? > > > > > > > > HYPERLINK > " GuruRatings " GuruRatings@, Venugopal > AK HYPERLINK " akvenugopal@ " <akvenugopal@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Tony OClery HYPERLINK " aoclery@ " <aoclery@> wrote: --- > > In HYPERLINK > " GuruRatings " GuruRatings@, " > OClery " <aoclery@> wrote: > > > > > > > > HYPERLINK > " GuruRatings " GuruRatings@, " > OClery " <aoclery@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > HYPERLINK > " GuruRatings " GuruRatings@, ecirada > <ecirada@> wrote: > > Snip > > Namaste, > > > > I'm sorry that this scientific theory doesn't support superstition. > > However quantum theory is a fact and I have a book from a conference > > of Indian scientists where they translate the scientific theories > > into religious jargon such as purusha prakriti, siva sakti etc etc. > > Very interesting and obviously in the distant past of a past > > civilisation they knew the knowledge would be lost and therefore > > couched it in religious or superstitious terms to preserve it. > > Knowing that the general public is generally superstitious. When I > > say superstitious I am not a rationalist or denying psychism, just > > the use of religion as a superstition by manipulative priests and > > hokum salesmen....-.After all Hiranyakasipu was said to have > > penetrated matter completely, this is just a repeat and it shows that > > religion and so called spirituality can be misused. > > > > Translated:- My book is bigger than yours. > > > > Tbony > > Another translation would have been > " Quantum physics is a great religion too and can be fiddled into an existing > one, > I like a lot " . > > Since the commercialization of science, everything has to be spectacularized > in order to receive maximum funding benefits from a publication. > So instead of 'nonlocality'-, the label becomes 'faster than light > communication'-. > > True believers in physics often forget the unpleasant stuff, like the > presupposition of > mathematical points for location of charges and mass, inviting forces of > 'infinite' > magnitude when (charged) particles get close. So there's need of > 'unification theory' > to prevent that whereas a postulate that charge is distributed over a > certain > space would prevent forces from becoming infinite on paper but that flies in > the face of the doctrine that charge is quantized, although it nowadays is > known > that the charge of the electron isn't a 'unity' charge :-D > > Not to mention the fun that moving charges 'must' radiate so the notion of > 'orbiting > electrons' was abandoned, to be replaced with 'wave function' - hoping that > nobody would discover that whatever waves, dissipates energy, just like > orbiting > electrons would - but don't. String theory, dubbed as 'eternal vibrations', > suffers > from the same omission: whatever oscillates / vibrates / waves, dissipates > energy > so either requires a conservation fairy or is just an incorrect model. > > IOW engagement in quantum physics still is like being a policeman and > newcomer > in a city, at night trying to keep an eye on the crooks when the only > light is a randomly > moving / working stroboscope ;-) > > Dear Jan, > > Yes, I think I can see what you are saying but my understanding > of quantum electrodynamics is very limited. > What I was getting at is the tendency to generate a TOE that will explain > everything. A bit like Roger Penrose's notion of quantum tunnelling in > microtubules within the neurone to explain `consciousnesses. > Now we have quantum healing, quantum consciousness quantum this and quantum > that. > Now I know practically nothing about quantum tunnelling, perhaps a bit more > about neurones. But enough to know that attempting to explain consciousness > by such means is a bit like Grandma's lye soap; > Good for everything in the home, the pots and pans the dirty dishes but it > doesn't suds and it doesn't foam. > > :-) > > TBony Namaste, One has to understand first that we are in a 'dream' created by an illusory mind. Therefore at the more subtle level the mind of the observer is operating on a more subtle frequency and so affecting the observed wave-particle. This is because the subtle mind is more universal so to speak. I use the word 'subtle' as there isn't another word and it shouldn't be really equated with the understood 'subtle body', in Vedanta...Tony. --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2007 Report Share Posted November 26, 2007 GuruRatings , " Tony OClery " <aoclery wrote: GuruRatings , " Tony " <tonyco@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Tony OClery HYPERLINK " aoclery@ " <aoclery@> wrote: --- > > > In HYPERLINK > > " HYPERLINK > " GuruRatings%40 " GuruRatings@ " GuruRati > ngs@, " > > OClery " <aoclery@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > HYPERLINK > > " HYPERLINK > " GuruRatings%40 " GuruRatings@ " GuruRati > ngs@, " > > OClery " <aoclery@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > HYPERLINK > > " HYPERLINK > " GuruRatings%40 " GuruRatings@ " GuruRati > ngs@, ecirada > > <ecirada@> wrote: > > > Snip > > > Big snip > > ess > > by such means is a bit like Grandma's lye soap; > > Good for everything in the home, the pots and pans the dirty dishes > but it > > doesn't suds and it doesn't foam. > > > > :-) > > > > TBony > > Namaste, > > One has to understand first that we are in a 'dream' created by an > illusory mind. > Therefore at the more subtle level the mind of the observer is > operating on a more subtle frequency and so affecting the observed > wave-particle. This is because the subtle mind is more universal so > to speak. > I use the word 'subtle' as there isn't another word and it shouldn't > be really equated with the understood 'subtle body', in > Vedanta.. > > Dear Tony O, > > Could you explain what a `more subtle level' that the mind of > the observer is operating on means? > And what are subtle frequencies as opposed to say, unsubtle frequencies. > I am familiar with wavelength, amplitude, and frequency with respect to > waves but properties such as their `subtleties' eludes me. > What is a `subtle body' in Vedanta? > > I am ignorant in such matters. > > Thanks > > Regards > > Tbony Namaste Tone, Everything is the mind actually, but for arguments sake it is divided up. The subtle body in Vedanta is the body behind or beyond the material body. All of these quantums etc are really in the material for they didn't manifest until the big bang or whatever theory one espouses....However one doesn't have to understand the atomic and molecular structure of water to get out of the swimming pool.. --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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