Guest guest Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Dear "old" friend of course "you" are "right" in so many statements... but if your knowledge is INNER KNOWLEDGE why do you still look "at the world" instead of enjoying INNER STILLNESS your "old" brother on the way back home my words are written out of really knowing what "troubles" both of our Egos... enjoy LOVE GD STILLNES michael - Tony OClery Monday, January 19, 2009 7:04 PM Heros and Gurus Namaste,There is something in human nature that needs to worship demi-gods and gurus....Why is that? Is like the rule of apes over their groups?Is it a lack of personal confidence that we invest super human powers in the ordinary humans?The same people that came and will come to Obama's inauguration will be same people clamouring for his demise in four or eight years if he cannot deliver on their perhaps unrealistic expectations of him.Commoners:...But indeed, sir, we make holiday, to seeCaesar and to rejoice in his triumph.Marullus:Wherefore rejoice? What conquest brings he home?What tributaries follow him to Rome,To grace in captive bonds his chariot-wheels?You blocks, you stones, you worse than senseless things!O you hard hearts, you cruel men of Rome,Knew you not of Pompey?..William Shakespeare - The Tragedy of Julius Caesar - Act I.It is the same for a need for a guru, why? worship a human body? Why not turn within to the Self/Guru within. It apparently is a human instinct that has to be overcome.............Cheers Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.9/1902 - Release 19/01/2009 9.37 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 " Tony OClery " <aoclery wrote: > There is something in human nature that needs to worship demi-gods and > gurus....Why is that? Is like the rule of apes over their groups? > It is the same for a need for a guru, why? worship a human body? Why > not turn within to the Self/Guru within. It apparently is a human > instinct that has to be overcome. > Hello Tony, my respects Would you agree with me that in the realization of Brahman as our Ultimate Identity are different grades of understanding? Would you agree that " we " are at different points within that scale of understanding also? Would you agree that all the scales of understanding are Brahman anyway? If you agreed with all of the above, then you should agree that statements at the relative level may be read only at the relative level. Need for a guru, worshipping a " personal " God and many other practices have a place in the whole scheme of things ( " the ten thousand things " ). Although illusory, they are necessary steeping stones, for some, towards the Real, which is all-pervading " us " at any moment, anyways. Yours in Bhagavan, Mouna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 , " Michael Bindel " <michael.bindel wrote: > > Dear " old " friend > > of course " you " are " right " in so many statements... > > but if your knowledge is INNER KNOWLEDGE why do you still look " at the world " instead of enjoying INNER STILLNESS > > your " old " brother on the way back home > > > my words are written out of really knowing what " troubles " both of our Egos... > > > enjoy LOVE > GD > STILLNES > > > michael Namaste M, Even Ramana looked at the world, as it is inseparable from ourselves..Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Namaste, There is something in human nature that needs to worship demi-gods and gurus....Why is that? Is like the rule of apes over their groups? Is it a lack of personal confidence that we invest super human powers in the ordinary humans? The same people that came and will come to Obama's inauguration will be same people clamouring for his demise in four or eight years if he cannot deliver on their perhaps unrealistic expectations of him. Commoners: ....But indeed, sir, we make holiday, to see Caesar and to rejoice in his triumph. Marullus: Wherefore rejoice? What conquest brings he home? What tributaries follow him to Rome, To grace in captive bonds his chariot-wheels? You blocks, you stones, you worse than senseless things! O you hard hearts, you cruel men of Rome, Knew you not of Pompey?.. William Shakespeare - The Tragedy of Julius Caesar - Act I. It is the same for a need for a guru, why? worship a human body? Why not turn within to the Self/Guru within. It apparently is a human instinct that has to be overcome.............Cheers Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 Until one realizes the True Nature of his Self, he is in bondage. He identifies himself with his physical body and mind though intellectually he can understand that his real nature is Sat Chit and Anand Infinite. When we are lost on our way HOME, we need a Guru who can show us the right direction. Until we are able to permanently abide in our Inner Blissful Heart, we may believe in nonduality but we live in duality. We then need our Guru's guidance. When you have intense desire to grow spiritually then the Guru Himself finds you and comes in your life. And then automatically sprouts the devotion and love for your Guru in your heart! Even if you don't want to worship another human form (intellectually!!), still you can't help it! You're completely helpless and your heart is full of overpouring devotion. Only when your heart cries for Him, and becomes wet with the tears of devotion it becomes fertile and the seedling of Jnana sprouts and grows into a beautiful tree bearing a fruit of Self Realization. Jnana without the devotion is very dry I think. You need the heartfelt devotional wetness for the fruition. Indeed I agree that there are those rare great souls who find their Guru within their own hearts instantly! But for the majority of the ordinary souls like me external Guru is necessary to finally reach our Infinite Self/Guru within. Where will be the distinction then between the external Guru, disciple and Internal Self? All will be ONE! In His Service Purnima In , " Tony OClery " <aoclery wrote: > > > Namaste, > > There is something in human nature that needs to worship demi-gods and > gurus....Why is that? Is like the rule of apes over their groups? > > Is it a lack of personal confidence that we invest super human powers > in the ordinary humans? > > The same people that came and will come to Obama's inauguration will be > same people clamouring for his demise in four or eight years if he > cannot deliver on their perhaps unrealistic expectations of him. > > Commoners: > ...But indeed, sir, we make holiday, to see > Caesar and to rejoice in his triumph. > Marullus: > Wherefore rejoice? What conquest brings he home? > What tributaries follow him to Rome, > To grace in captive bonds his chariot-wheels? > You blocks, you stones, you worse than senseless things! > O you hard hearts, you cruel men of Rome, > Knew you not of Pompey?.. > William Shakespeare - The Tragedy of Julius Caesar - Act I. > > It is the same for a need for a guru, why? worship a human body? Why > not turn within to the Self/Guru within. It apparently is a human > instinct that has to be overcome.............Cheers > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 Dear Sri Purnima, Thank you for your excellent posting. This part appeals to me most. " Only when your heart cries for Him, and becomes wet with the tears of devotion it becomes fertile and the seedling of Jnana sprouts and grows into a beautiful tree bearing a fruit of Self Realization. Jnana without the devotion is very dry I think. You need the heartfelt devotional wetness for the fruition. " All best wishes and warm regards, Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 But, you know Alan, I would not wish the suffering that I personally went through to finally look for relief that lays behind the veil, on anyone. It has been hard, when you know the only relief is through death, but you can not end your life, reaching into the emptiness through detachment from this world to find the love and peace, ultimately is the only alternative, and in the process you do sort of die. I know, no one on this earth is capable of giving me the love I have needed. I find that behind the veil in the stillness. I just have to call home. Maybe in my case it was desperation not so much devotion at first, but now it is devotion, because I know that is my only source of peace and I am grateful for it. But, we each have our own path. Others probably are not so stubborn so they don't have to have their arm twisted so much. k - Alan Jacobs Monday, January 19, 2009 9:58 PM Re: Re: Heros and Gurus Dear Sri Purnima, Thank you for your excellent posting. This part appeals to me most."Only when your heart cries for Him, and becomes wet with the tears of devotion it becomes fertile and the seedling of Jnana sprouts and grows into a beautiful tree bearing a fruit of Self Realization. Jnana without the devotion is very dry I think. You need the heartfelt devotional wetness for the fruition."All best wishes and warm regards,Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 Dear Karla, When we are on the 'path' I believe that we are only given the suffering we can bear, in just the right amount for our spiritual development.The Divine Wisdom controlling us, once we have accepted its guidance, knows exactly what to do and when and how to do it. So we welcome all that comes our way, the so called 'good' and the 'bad' as grace. That is surrender . Self Realisation has never been easy for any Soul and many have to undergo great austerities to obtain the Pearl of Great Price, but emerged triumphant in the end. Light and Love for a change, Alan --- On Tue, 20/1/09, karla <docdanes wrote: karla <docdanes Re: Re: Heros and Gurus Tuesday, 20 January, 2009, 4:31 AM But, you know Alan, I would not wish the suffering that I personally went through to finally look for relief that lays behind the veil, on anyone. It has been hard, when you know the only relief is through death, but you can not end your life, reaching into the emptiness through detachment from this world to find the love and peace, ultimately is the only alternative, and in the process you do sort of die. I know, no one on this earth is capable of giving me the love I have needed. I find that behind the veil in the stillness. I just have to call home. Maybe in my case it was desperation not so much devotion at first, but now it is devotion, because I know that is my only source of peace and I am grateful for it. But, we each have our own path. Others probably are not so stubborn so they don't have to have their arm twisted so much. k - Alan Jacobs Monday, January 19, 2009 9:58 PM Re: Re: Heros and Gurus Dear Sri Purnima, Thank you for your excellent posting. This part appeals to me most. " Only when your heart cries for Him, and becomes wet with the tears of devotion it becomes fertile and the seedling of Jnana sprouts and grows into a beautiful tree bearing a fruit of Self Realization. Jnana without the devotion is very dry I think. You need the heartfelt devotional wetness for the fruition. " All best wishes and warm regards, Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 Alan, you are full of wisdom, and I am glad I have you in my life. God does give us what we need at the right time and so here you are, a teacher and friend to help me along the way. By the way I have decided to be a Hermit, except for work of course, well maybe I have always been a hermit and just didn't realize it. :-). - Alan Jacobs Monday, January 19, 2009 10:46 PM Re: Re: Heros and Gurus Dear Karla,When we are on the 'path' I believe that we are only given the suffering we can bear, in just the right amount for our spiritual development.The Divine Wisdom controlling us, once we have accepted its guidance, knows exactly what to do and when and how to do it. So we welcome all that comes our way, the so called 'good' and the 'bad' as grace. That is surrender . Self Realisation has never been easy for any Soul and many have to undergo great austerities to obtain the Pearl of Great Price, but emerged triumphant in the end.Light and Love for a change,Alan--- On Tue, 20/1/09, karla <docdanes (AT) earthlink (DOT) net> wrote:karla <docdanes (AT) earthlink (DOT) net>Re: Re: Heros and Gurus Date: Tuesday, 20 January, 2009, 4:31 AMBut, you know Alan, I would not wish the suffering that I personally went through to finally look for relief that lays behind the veil, on anyone. It has been hard, when you know the only relief is through death, but you can not end your life, reaching into the emptiness through detachment from this world to find the love and peace, ultimately is the only alternative, and in the process you do sort of die. I know, no one on this earth is capable of giving me the love I have needed. I find that behind the veil in the stillness. I just have to call home. Maybe in my case it was desperation not so much devotion at first, but now it is devotion, because I know that is my only source of peace and I am grateful for it. But, we each have our own path. Others probably are not so stubborn so they don't have to have their arm twisted so much. k - Alan Jacobs Monday, January 19, 2009 9:58 PMRe: Re: Heros and GurusDear Sri Purnima, Thank you for your excellent posting. This part appeals to me most."Only when your heart cries for Him, and becomes wet with the tears of devotion it becomes fertile and the seedling of Jnana sprouts and grows into a beautiful tree bearing a fruit of Self Realization. Jnana without the devotion is very dry I think. You need the heartfelt devotional wetness for the fruition."All best wishes and warm regards,Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 Dear karla, Naturally I will endeavour to assist you if I can. Love and Light, Alan--- On Tue, 20/1/09, karla <docdanes wrote: karla <docdanesRe: Re: Heros and Gurus Date: Tuesday, 20 January, 2009, 5:17 AM Alan, you are full of wisdom, and I am glad I have you in my life. God does give us what we need at the right time and so here you are, a teacher and friend to help me along the way. By the way I have decided to be a Hermit, except for work of course, well maybe I have always been a hermit and just didn't realize it. :-). - Alan Jacobs Monday, January 19, 2009 10:46 PM Re: Re: Heros and Gurus Dear Karla,When we are on the 'path' I believe that we are only given the suffering we can bear, in just the right amount for our spiritual development. The Divine Wisdom controlling us, once we have accepted its guidance, knows exactly what to do and when and how to do it. So we welcome all that comes our way, the so called 'good' and the 'bad' as grace. That is surrender . Self Realisation has never been easy for any Soul and many have to undergo great austerities to obtain the Pearl of Great Price, but emerged triumphant in the end.Light and Love for a change,Alan--- On Tue, 20/1/09, karla <docdanes (AT) earthlink (DOT) net> wrote:karla <docdanes (AT) earthlink (DOT) net>Re: Re: Heros and GurusTuesday, 20 January, 2009, 4:31 AMBut, you know Alan, I would not wish the suffering that I personally went through to finally look for relief that lays behind the veil, on anyone. It has been hard, when you know the only relief is through death, but you can not end your life, reaching into the emptiness through detachment from this world to find the love and peace, ultimately is the only alternative, and in the process you do sort of die. I know, no one on this earth is capable of giving me the love I have needed. I find that behind the veil in the stillness. I just have to call home. Maybe in my case it was desperation not so much devotion at first, but now it is devotion, because I know that is my only source of peace and I am grateful for it. But, we each have our own path. Others probably are not so stubborn so they don't have to have their arm twisted so much. k - Alan Jacobs Monday, January 19, 2009 9:58 PMRe: Re: Heros and GurusDear Sri Purnima, Thank you for your excellent posting. This part appeals to me most."Only when your heart cries for Him, and becomes wet with the tears of devotion it becomes fertile and the seedling of Jnana sprouts and grows into a beautiful tree bearing a fruit of Self Realization. Jnana without the devotion is very dry I think. You need the heartfelt devotional wetness for the fruition."All best wishes and warm regards,Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 Hello That which worships demi-gods is the ego. The ego is not something in man's nature. The ego is an abberration from man's nature. The ego is incapable of worship, the ego can either look up to some one or something or look down on some one or something. As for the rule of the apees, I will quote Lao Tzu in the Hua Hu Ching # 10 "The ego is a monkey catapulting through the jungle: Totally fascinated by the realm of the senses, it swings from one desire to the next, one conflict to the next, one self-centered idea to the next. If you threaten it, it actually fears for its life. Let this monkey go. Let the senses go. Let desires go. Let conflicts go. Let ideas go. Let the fiction of life and death go. Just remain in the center, watching. And then forget that you are there." mourad , "Tony OClery" <aoclery wrote:>> > Namaste,> > There is something in human nature that needs to worship demi-gods and > gurus....Why is that? Is like the rule of apes over their groups?> > Is it a lack of personal confidence that we invest super human powers > in the ordinary humans?> > The same people that came and will come to Obama's inauguration will be > same people clamouring for his demise in four or eight years if he > cannot deliver on their perhaps unrealistic expectations of him.> > Commoners:> ...But indeed, sir, we make holiday, to see> Caesar and to rejoice in his triumph.> Marullus:> Wherefore rejoice? What conquest brings he home?> What tributaries follow him to Rome,> To grace in captive bonds his chariot-wheels?> You blocks, you stones, you worse than senseless things!> O you hard hearts, you cruel men of Rome,> Knew you not of Pompey?..> William Shakespeare - The Tragedy of Julius Caesar - Act I.> > It is the same for a need for a guru, why? worship a human body? Why > not turn within to the Self/Guru within. It apparently is a human > instinct that has to be overcome.............Cheers Tony> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 Dear Mourad thank you so much for this posting specially RULE OF THE APES michael - mourad Tuesday, January 20, 2009 4:04 PM Re: Heros and Gurus Hello That which worships demi-gods is the ego. The ego is not something in man's nature. The ego is an abberration from man's nature. The ego is incapable of worship, the ego can either look up to some one or something or look down on some one or something. As for the rule of the apees, I will quote Lao Tzu in the Hua Hu Ching # 10 "The ego is a monkey catapulting through the jungle: Totally fascinated by the realm of the senses, it swings from one desire to the next, one conflict to the next, one self-centered idea to the next. If you threaten it, it actually fears for its life. Let this monkey go. Let the senses go. Let desires go. Let conflicts go. Let ideas go. Let the fiction of life and death go. Just remain in the center, watching. And then forget that you are there." mourad , "Tony OClery" <aoclery wrote:>> > Namaste,> > There is something in human nature that needs to worship demi-gods and > gurus....Why is that? Is like the rule of apes over their groups?> > Is it a lack of personal confidence that we invest super human powers > in the ordinary humans?> > The same people that came and will come to Obama's inauguration will be > same people clamouring for his demise in four or eight years if he > cannot deliver on their perhaps unrealistic expectations of him.> > Commoners:> ...But indeed, sir, we make holiday, to see> Caesar and to rejoice in his triumph.> Marullus:> Wherefore rejoice? What conquest brings he home?> What tributaries follow him to Rome,> To grace in captive bonds his chariot-wheels?> You blocks, you stones, you worse than senseless things!> O you hard hearts, you cruel men of Rome,> Knew you not of Pompey?..> William Shakespeare - The Tragedy of Julius Caesar - Act I.> > It is the same for a need for a guru, why? worship a human body? Why > not turn within to the Self/Guru within. It apparently is a human > instinct that has to be overcome.............Cheers Tony> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.10/1903 - Release 19/01/2009 20.52 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 , " mourad " <mourad_shamel wrote: > > > Hello > > That which worships demi-gods is the ego. The ego is not something in > man's nature. The ego is an abberration from man's nature. The ego is > incapable of worship, the ego can either look up to some one or > something or look down on some one or something. > > As for the rule of the apees, I will quote Lao Tzu in the Hua Hu Ching > # 10 > > " The ego is a monkey catapulting through the jungle: Totally fascinated > by the realm of the senses, it swings from one desire to the next, one > conflict to the next, one self-centered idea to the next. If you > threaten it, it actually fears for its life. Let this monkey go. Let the > senses go. Let desires go. Let conflicts go. Let ideas go. Let the > fiction of life and death go. Just remain in the center, watching. And > then forget that you are there. " > > > > mourad > > > , " Tony OClery " <aoclery@> > wrote: > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > There is something in human nature that needs to worship demi- gods and > > gurus....Why is that? Is like the rule of apes over their groups? > > > > Is it a lack of personal confidence that we invest super human powers > > in the ordinary humans? > > > > The same people that came and will come to Obama's inauguration will > be > > same people clamouring for his demise in four or eight years if he > > cannot deliver on their perhaps unrealistic expectations of him. > > > > Commoners: > > ...But indeed, sir, we make holiday, to see > > Caesar and to rejoice in his triumph. > > Marullus: > > Wherefore rejoice? What conquest brings he home? > > What tributaries follow him to Rome, > > To grace in captive bonds his chariot-wheels? > > You blocks, you stones, you worse than senseless things! > > O you hard hearts, you cruel men of Rome, > > Knew you not of Pompey?.. > > William Shakespeare - The Tragedy of Julius Caesar - Act I. > > > > It is the same for a need for a guru, why? worship a human body? Why > > not turn within to the Self/Guru within. It apparently is a human > > instinct that has to be overcome.............Cheers > > >Namaste, Yes so it must be the proto ego in the monkey and ape clans that worship the leader of the tribe then........Which apparently comes down to us as well.........Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 Of course I have to throw my two cents in, for a Hermit, I do write a lot. My social life and I don't have to leave my environment. I think a person who has reached a certain level of development, does give off an energy, a vibration or something that has a positive effect on the people around them. It may not be worship but a desire to be in the presence of a Guru and respect for that person for what he had to offer those who sought his help. - mourad Tuesday, January 20, 2009 9:04 AM Re: Heros and Gurus Hello That which worships demi-gods is the ego. The ego is not something in man's nature. The ego is an abberration from man's nature. The ego is incapable of worship, the ego can either look up to some one or something or look down on some one or something. As for the rule of the apees, I will quote Lao Tzu in the Hua Hu Ching # 10 "The ego is a monkey catapulting through the jungle: Totally fascinated by the realm of the senses, it swings from one desire to the next, one conflict to the next, one self-centered idea to the next. If you threaten it, it actually fears for its life. Let this monkey go. Let the senses go. Let desires go. Let conflicts go. Let ideas go. Let the fiction of life and death go. Just remain in the center, watching. And then forget that you are there." mourad , "Tony OClery" <aoclery wrote:>> > Namaste,> > There is something in human nature that needs to worship demi-gods and > gurus....Why is that? Is like the rule of apes over their groups?> > Is it a lack of personal confidence that we invest super human powers > in the ordinary humans?> > The same people that came and will come to Obama's inauguration will be > same people clamouring for his demise in four or eight years if he > cannot deliver on their perhaps unrealistic expectations of him.> > Commoners:> ...But indeed, sir, we make holiday, to see> Caesar and to rejoice in his triumph.> Marullus:> Wherefore rejoice? What conquest brings he home?> What tributaries follow him to Rome,> To grace in captive bonds his chariot-wheels?> You blocks, you stones, you worse than senseless things!> O you hard hearts, you cruel men of Rome,> Knew you not of Pompey?..> William Shakespeare - The Tragedy of Julius Caesar - Act I.> > It is the same for a need for a guru, why? worship a human body? Why > not turn within to the Self/Guru within. It apparently is a human > instinct that has to be overcome.............Cheers Tony> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 , " karla " <docdanes wrote: > > Of course I have to throw my two cents in, for a Hermit, I do write a lot. My social life and I don't have to leave my environment. I think a person who has reached a certain level of development, does give off an energy, a vibration or something that has a positive effect on the people around them. It may not be worship but a desire to be in the presence of a Guru and respect for that person for what he had to offer those who sought his help. Namaste Karla, But this is all within illusion, and delusion. It is a delusion in the first place to think that another person can be ultimately different from you...that is dualism.-the basis of all religions. Being in the aura of somebody else doesn't cut it----one has to cut it oneself. At the level of the animal and human animal the Guru and having Darshan are fine and par for the course...No matter how much an energy is given off from a person, it really is coming from within oneself,,,,and the feeling doesn't last as we all know.... I may sound negative to some but it is just neti neti --not thism not this...It is may sadhan to deny everything that is manifest as being real. Devotion or Bhakti is fine but only those that have realised are Bhaktas the rest are caught in emotion,,,,and results in becoming a dweller of Brahmaloka so to speak not realisatin---due to the duality. I only talk like this on forums that are dedicated to the great non dualists as per Ramana..........Cheers Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 I am of the opinion that you speak from ignorance. Yes, this is an illusion, but it is a very real illusion to most and full of emotion and life experiences. While we walk on this earth it is necessary to deal with the problems that confront us. If we understand that the real reality is behind the veil, it is easier to approach life without the emotions of fear, anger, self gratification etc. We can connect with the love and peace and walk through the hardships of this life knowing this is temporary and not really that important. That we are not alone, and we will be taken care of. Your thoughts are scattered. Dualism, Illusion, the bases of all religions. I try not to judge religions too much. For most, religion helps to form the initial understanding of right from wrong and an understanding that we are not alone. Maybe not worrying so much with what is going on with everyone else, you can devote more time to looking inside of yourself for a better understanding of what is going on in the world around you. Others frequently reflect back to you what you are yourself. You see in the world around you what maybe a defect in yourself. I know I am being a little harsh. But, I really think some time quieting your mind would help, I sense a little hostility in some of your posts. Try to watch a sunset with a quiet appreciation and joy. Love and Light, and I really mean it. k - Tony OClery Tuesday, January 20, 2009 5:48 PM Re: Heros and Gurus , "karla" <docdanes wrote:>> Of course I have to throw my two cents in, for a Hermit, I do write a lot. My social life and I don't have to leave my environment. I think a person who has reached a certain level of development, does give off an energy, a vibration or something that has a positive effect on the people around them. It may not be worship but a desire to be in the presence of a Guru and respect for that person for what he had to offer those who sought his help. Namaste Karla,But this is all within illusion, and delusion. It is a delusion in the first place to think that another person can be ultimately different from you...that is dualism.-the basis of all religions. Being in the aura of somebody else doesn't cut it----one has to cut it oneself. At the level of the animal and human animal the Guru and having Darshan are fine and par for the course...No matter how much an energy is given off from a person, it really is coming from within oneself,,,,and the feeling doesn't last as we all know....I may sound negative to some but it is just neti neti --not thism not this...It is may sadhan to deny everything that is manifest as being real.Devotion or Bhakti is fine but only those that have realised are Bhaktas the rest are caught in emotion,,,,and results in becoming a dweller of Brahmaloka so to speak not realisatin---due to the duality.I only talk like this on forums that are dedicated to the great non dualists as per Ramana..........Cheers Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Dear Tony, I commend you on your being solidly and deeply rooted in Bhagvan's teachings of non-duality. In all your postings I can see that you look at life from a very high standpoint of non-dualism. For me, I can say that intellectually I know the theory and philosphy so very well but in the day to day life when ups and downs come into my way, it is very hard to feel that it is all illusion at that very moment because the feeler, thinker and doer still exists though the inquiry into who this individuality is still going on..... to uncover the UNITY in the diversity! In His Service, Purnima In , " Tony OClery " <aoclery wrote: > > , " karla " <docdanes@> wrote: > > > > Of course I have to throw my two cents in, for a Hermit, I do write > a lot. My social life and I don't have to leave my environment. I > think a person who has reached a certain level of development, does > give off an energy, a vibration or something that has a positive > effect on the people around them. It may not be worship but a desire > to be in the presence of a Guru and respect for that person for what > he had to offer those who sought his help. > > Namaste Karla, > > But this is all within illusion, and delusion. It is a delusion in > the first place to think that another person can be ultimately > different from you...that is dualism.-the basis of all religions. > Being in the aura of somebody else doesn't cut it----one has to cut > it oneself. At the level of the animal and human animal the Guru and > having Darshan are fine and par for the course...No matter how much > an energy is given off from a person, it really is coming from within > oneself,,,,and the feeling doesn't last as we all know.... > > I may sound negative to some but it is just neti neti --not thism not > this...It is may sadhan to deny everything that is manifest as being > real. > > Devotion or Bhakti is fine but only those that have realised are > Bhaktas the rest are caught in emotion,,,,and results in becoming a > dweller of Brahmaloka so to speak not realisatin---due to the duality. > > I only talk like this on forums that are dedicated to the great non > dualists as per Ramana..........Cheers > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 , " karla " <docdanes wrote: > > I am of the opinion that you speak from ignorance. Yes, this is an illusion, but it is a very real illusion to most and full of emotion and life experiences. While we walk on this earth it is necessary to deal with the problems that confront us. If we understand that the real reality is behind the veil, it is easier to approach life without the emotions of fear, anger, self gratification etc. We can connect with the love and peace and walk through the hardships of this life knowing this is temporary and not really that important. That we are not alone, and we will be taken care of. Your thoughts are scattered. Dualism, Illusion, the bases of all religions. I try not to judge religions too much. For most, religion helps to form the initial understanding of right from wrong and an understanding that we are not alone. Maybe not worrying so much with what is going on with everyone else, you can devote more time to looking inside of yourself for a better understanding of what is going on in the world around you. Others frequently reflect back to you what you are yourself. You see in the world around you what maybe a defect in yourself. I know I am being a little harsh. But, I really think some time quieting your mind would help, I sense a little hostility in some of your posts. Try to watch a sunset with a quiet appreciation and joy. Love and Light, and I really mean it. k Namaste, There is no hostility in my posts that is your perception of my directness...Truth in the main is always painful to attachments. Right and wrong can be taught without religion as they were for millions of years. For as Shakespeare said...there is no right nor wrong but thinking that makes it so. I actully don't care what people do as long as they don't scare the horses. What you express is illusion and really delusion, there is nothing behind the veil looking out for you. This is the learning process that anything other than you ie.God, Devas etc are only as real as you think that you are........ There is nothing going on in the world. 1. We start out life thinking we are making things happen. 2. Next we realise that things are actually happening to us and we are not making anything happen. 3. The final truth that nothing is happening at all. May mystics, sufis, and others have burnt at the stake of martyred for uttering these truths.......Even Jesus was condemned for blasphemy. Then we have martyrs like Mansour and others. It is not necessary per se to deal with lifes problems. If you don't deal with them they will still be there. We have to rise above them so to speak and let them take care of themselves........ There is nothing truer than the expression 'Ignorance is bliss'..for rising above knowing is bliss and the final impediment to realisation. .....Cheers Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 , andreas farsatis <born010405 wrote: > > Namaste, >  > this morning i had a sincere Satsangh here in tiru > with Ganeschan,he pointed out how extraordinary compassionate was >  Sri Ramana, and also said that wisdom and realisation would be worthless without > compassion,and that compassion is the very essence > of true spirituality.. >  > Does that mean anything to you Tony? >  > In His compassion and Grace, >  > Sandosham. >  Namaste, Compassion in the end has to be overcome as it is an emotion and a aspect of the mind. Ramana's compassion was no doubt tolerance as well. One must remember the body/mind complex of Ramana still had its karmas to complete. Compassion is not pollyanna emotion, but recognising that 'All is One' and not doing harm..By realising all is one the ego is reduced----that is the reason for compassion. Sometimes compassion can be painful..........It is all delusion to be overcome anyway.................Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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