Guest guest Posted July 21, 2009 Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 GuruRatings , " Tony OClery " <aoclery wrote: GuruRatings , " olodumare_4all " <olodumare_4all@> wrote: > > GuruRatings , " Tony OClery " <aoclery@> wrote: > > > Problem is all this universe mind and consciousness ultimately never did happen...so there is no Personal God planning anything...just NirGuna...Tony. > > > > *_* Maybe there is no personal God planning > and maybe nothing ultimately ever happened, > but to believe that, one has to also believe > one of two things. > > One has to believe > something that someone else has told them. > > Or, upon experiencing a view that makes it > appear to be the case, one has to overlook > the possibility that one's view, no matter > how it might change, is still only a show > displayed in a private room. > > How does one come to see a view where it > seems that nothing ever happened? Literally, > all one has to do is eliminate some of the > working functions of the mind. One might > just as well come to the conclusion that > the mind is correct as long as it's > functioning within normal parameters.. > and incorrect when parts are missing. > > When I see that nothing appears to have > happened, I say instead that what happened > is gone forever as every manifestation in > consciousness is fleeting and fragile. > > There is a choice we make, which is the > choice to experience this fleeting moment > in one way as opposed to another. To > experience it as a hazy but sometimes > emotional fantasy of the past or probable > future, or to experience it in a sensual > way, or do neither but block it all out > instead and call the lack of content the > Truth. > > Not the only options, of course, > as a few basics mixed together create > huge possibilities, but all of these > possibilities are explorations of human > consciousness, never of anything else. > Namaste, Where is what happened yesterday? where is what happens tomorrow? Where is what happens now, which already is the past as I speak? Experiencing is the problem not the process,,,we have to step back and observe rather than participate in the experience, even whilst performing the action...So we start out thinking we are making things happen then we realise they are happening to us.....and eventually they don't happen at all. Just like all time is at once and then not at all. The mind itself is also the problem...we have to get to the sahaja nirvikalpa samadhi state all the time-----hard to do.. Human consciousness is really another illusion, just as big as consciousness itself is... We are sort of participating in a dream that ultimately isn't happening............We use a thorn to remove a thorn....but lets not forget it is a thorn all the same....Cheers Tony. --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 GuruRatings , " Tony OClery " <aoclery wrote: GuruRatings , " Durga " <durgaji108@> wrote: > > GuruRatings , " Tony OClery " <aoclery@> wrote: > > > > GuruRatings , " Tony OClery " <aoclery@> wrote: > > > > > > GuruRatings , " Durga " <durgaji108@> wrote: > > > > > > > > GuruRatings , " Tony OClery " <aoclery@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > > > snip > > > > > > > > > > The mind itself is also the problem...we have to get to the sahaja nirvikalpa samadhi state all the time-----hard to do.. > > > > > > > > > snip > > > > > > > > Cheers Tony. > > > > > > > > Hi Tonyji, > > > > > > > > Here's my question. Who or what is 'getting to the sahaja > > > > nirvikalpa samadhi state?' Or is my being already sahaja > > > > and nirvikalpa, and it is only a matter of recognizing that > > > > fact? > > > > > > > > IOW how can I get somewhere I already am? The mind > > > > sees duality, but what is it that is 'behind,' as it were, > > > > and lighting up the mind? That which lights up the mind > > > > is already sahaja and nirvikalpa, is always, has always > > > > been, will always be so. > > > > > > > > So, who or what is going to get into that state? > > > > > > > > Reference can be to Kena Upanishad, > > > > the ear of the ear, eye of the eye, etc. > > > > > > > > Durga > > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > Sure I don't understand that, but is just words as a vehicle to get something across....In fact there is nothing to light up the mind, for there is ultimately no mind..........> > > > > Namaste, > > > > I meant understand that of course, as there is the illusion to merge with.........\ > > 'The Way to the Father is through me'...Jesus talking as the son or sakti...........> > But Tonyji, Here is where I think you are a dualist. > > In Vedanta we say the illusion itself has satyam > as its basis, therefore, we can say 'nondual.' > > If we say the illusion doesn't exist, then > we have two things, one, an illusion or if > you prefer, saguna, and two, satyam, or nirguna. > > Just today, I was listening to a talk of Swami > Dayanandaji's where he says, " Saguna is Nirguna. " > > If the illusion has satyam for its basis, then > we can say advaita, not two. Despite appearances, > there are not two things. > > Then we can live comfortably, interacting within this apparently > dual world, knowing all the while that all it > truly is is satyam, and that sataym, tat satyam, > sa atma, is your self. Tat tvam asi. You > are That, because despite any appearance to > the contrary, there is nothing else you can be. > > Otherwise, we've got a split, and this is what > Swami Dayananda calls 'dissociative thinking.' Namaste Durga, I think the Swami is afraid of spreading dissociative thinking, as his audience may not grasp his words. When one listens to a guru one must look at the audience for he reflects their minds. To me the world in total is like a dream of Saguna that only exists as long as one is unrealised. Once one merges with the siva sakti one realises nirguna simultaneously. This is why jnana and bhakti end up in the same place. Removing obstacles to our true state that is. Duality at the human level is thinking we are separate from the world, separate from the mind, etc etc and we are an individual. If you practise you will see the world appears as a dream. At this level as Sankara said it is real while we are in it....it is with this projected unreality that we must merge, for that is all we are...it is the ground. The greatest duality is to believe that NirGuna could project this appearance for that takes a mind....Cheers Tony. --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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