Fwd: Letter from a Jnani

July 24, 2009

, " MIchael Cape-Meadows "

<ramanatmosphere wrote:

A private letter has come into my hands from a very old devotee who

completed atma vichara well over a decade ago. It is written to another

devotee who appears to be wallowing in the throes of samsara. As I felt

that the contents were of universal appeal I wrote requesting that the

contents of the letter be posted to this group. The sender and the

recipient have given permission for this; accordingly it is reproduced

below. Apart from the excision of personal details, it is posted as it

was written.

Regards, MC-M

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Many people, I feel sure, would consider that you were very fortunate,

in that you have the opportunity to visit Arunachala fairly often. I am

not one. I feel that the whole Arunachala thing has become a millstone

around the necks of devotees. They have come to have false ideas about

Ramana's path. Attending Arunachala is immaterial. It has become mere

ritual and superstition. Attending to vichara is the one and only

solution. It does not solve life's trials and tribulations [look at me]

but it does establish a perspective which effects a strategy to travel

through life. Ramana believed in the beliefs of devotees as a temporary

staging post on the way to establishing vichara. i.e. he accepted the

devotees' beliefs in Grace, Gods of all shapes and sizes, and at times

their belief in other disciplines. From this it appears that Ramana

devotees have extrapolated that he actually believed in the things his

devotees believed in. If one reads his body of works it is clear He did

not. He allowed a certain leeway to those who came to ask advice in the

hope that his teaching of vichara would take hold. Nowadays there is no

corrective influence. Ramana can no longer remind folks or can he?

" Leave God alone. Speak for yourself. You do not know God. He is only

what you think of Him. Is he apart from you? He is that Pure

Consciousness in which all ideas are formed. You are that

Consciousness. " Advaita has become nothing but dvaita in disguise.

Confusion is now rife. Everyone wants blessing and intercession.

Ramana's primary statements are dismissed. Primary statements are those

which reaffirm ajatavada, which reiterate vichara. Nothing else is of

any help. Until one realises this what can one say?

Namaste,

This letter is important and tells it as it is...On many Ramana sites we have

statements like...'Ramana' blessed this and that...How can that be there is no

Ramana ....Tony.

July 25, 2009

ganges is not aware about its holiness and transcendant nature, with faith many followers take a dip some desiring to cleanse themselves from the cycle of karma., some desiring to gain enlightenment, some desiring out of curiosity to experience its presence etc. etc. does it lead to path of liberation, does it give presence of god, does it give experience of fulfillment. dvaita, advaita, ajatavada are all concepts which gets washed in its flow.

-mahesh

Tony OClery <aocleryadvaitajnana Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 12:19:06 AM Fwd: Letter from a Jnani

, "MIchael Cape-Meadows" <ramanatmosphere@ ...> wrote:A private letter has come into my hands from a very old devotee whocompleted atma vichara well over a decade ago. It is written to anotherdevotee who appears to be wallowing in the throes of samsara. As I feltthat the contents were of universal appeal I wrote requesting that thecontents of the letter be posted to this group. The sender and therecipient have given permission for this; accordingly it is reproducedbelow. Apart from the excision of personal details, it is posted as itwas written.Regards, MC-M= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =Many people, I feel sure, would consider that you were very fortunate,in that you have the opportunity to visit

Arunachala fairly often. I amnot one. I feel that the whole Arunachala thing has become a millstonearound the necks of devotees. They have come to have false ideas aboutRamana's path. Attending Arunachala is immaterial. It has become mereritual and superstition. Attending to vichara is the one and onlysolution. It does not solve life's trials and tribulations [look at me]but it does establish a perspective which effects a strategy to travelthrough life. Ramana believed in the beliefs of devotees as a temporarystaging post on the way to establishing vichara. i.e. he accepted thedevotees' beliefs in Grace, Gods of all shapes and sizes, and at timestheir belief in other disciplines. From this it appears that Ramanadevotees have extrapolated that he actually believed in the things hisdevotees believed in. If one reads his body of works it is clear He didnot. He allowed a certain leeway to those who came to

ask advice in thehope that his teaching of vichara would take hold. Nowadays there is nocorrective influence. Ramana can no longer remind folks or can he?"Leave God alone. Speak for yourself. You do not know God. He is onlywhat you think of Him. Is he apart from you? He is that PureConsciousness in which all ideas are formed. You are thatConsciousness. " Advaita has become nothing but dvaita in disguise.Confusion is now rife. Everyone wants blessing and intercession. Ramana's primary statements are dismissed. Primary statements are thosewhich reaffirm ajatavada, which reiterate vichara. Nothing else is ofany help. Until one realises this what can one say?Namaste,This letter is important and tells it as it is...On many Ramana sites we have statements like...'Ramana' blessed this and that...How can that be there is no Ramana ....Tony.

July 25, 2009

GuruRatings , " Tony OClery " <aoclery wrote:

GuruRatings , Venugopal AK <akvenugopal@> wrote:

>

> --- On Sat, 25/7/09, Tony OClery <aoclery@> wrote:

> <snipped in reverence to Shri Ramana Maharishi ! "

>

> Namaste,

>

> This letter is important and tells it as it is...On many Ramana sites we have

statements like...'Ramana' blessed this and that...How can that be there is no

Ramana ....Tony.

>

> --- End forwarded message ---#VG#Dear Tony, It is

understood well, in India, that what a Guru tells a disciple/devotee is often

specific for that person and particular situation. One should not extrapolate it

to cover every one and all situations.

> I have written this here earlier : One day Shri Nisargadatta Maharaj tells

some villagers who had come to meet him " I am a great Guru. Greater than any

Guru alive today. Even greater than Sri Krishna !! " . A westerner who was sitting

nearby was aghast at these words. Shri Nisargadatta Maharaj noticed this and

tells to the westerner. " What I told is not meant for you. It is exclusively for

the benefit of these villagers " .I have seen extreme possesiveness about Shri

Ramana Maharishi on some web site. As if the great sage is their private

property and nobody should meddle with that ownership ! It simply is indicative

of the spiritual immaturity of the person concerned. Anyways I don't want to be

judgemental. Hence snipping here.

> RegardsVG

Namaste,

Technically Nisargadatta was right..for Niz was a Jnani and Krishna was an

Avatar which requires residual ego/mind.........I think the point of the

original post was not to intellectualise but to point out that the 'followers'

of Ramana had not fully grasped or follow his teachings...There are plenty of

other gurus and godmen who don't understand or teach what Ramana did...

As the writer said Ramana is no longer there to advise and guide their

superstitions...........Tony.

--- End forwarded message ---

July 26, 2009

It seems that Ramana was okay with bhakti-minded devotees having all sorts of

conceptual dissonance in how their imaginations interpreted his words. If you

came to him with a question, okay, THEN he'd give you the straight algorithms

for the logic minded, but he knew that a simple uneducated person at the back of

the crowd could be independent of egoic attachments far more than any intellect

in the room was capable of. Those folks, by merely bowing to Ramana, may have

moved along their evolutionary path more than those concept lovers who were

satisfied with the answer to a question and walked away without clarity about

the need for inquiry.

It was the heart dynamics solely that mattered to Ramana -- to " merge " with the

Ultimate doesn't take a giant intellect. Are we not all, whether by heart or

intellect, merely like the villagers who tried to help baby Krishna hold up the

mountain by using insignificant sticks? Whether we are resonant with the

realization of the expansion of silence into the interstices of OM by the

grasping of concepts or if we are resonant by the hugging of heart, what matters

it? I say that Ramana would not be entirely displeased with the bhaktis extant.

A fool who persists in his folly will succeed eventually -- that concept applies

to either path. The intellect must eventually come to the realization that the

intellect is incapable of encapsulating the real -- that a stick is being used

for merely a symbolic attempt to shed the ego by beating it with concepts

whereas the Real was actually the source of all manifestations. The heart, too,

must come to the realization that loving the godhead so well that one's own

individuality is lost like a cricket's song when a fire engine blares by is not

the ultimate tool for gaining unity.

Both methods always leads to that same doorway: where Grace must dawn and

freedom is given instead of being earned. The intellectual must drop concepts

like Arjuna dropped Gandiva. The heart must give up being so attached to

worship as a method and do that which is impossible for angels -- close one's

loving eyes -- end one's loving gazing -- and thus allow realization's peace to

overwhelm the noisy need to consume the divine.

Edg

advaitajnana , " Tony OClery " <aoclery wrote:

>

> GuruRatings , " Tony OClery " <aoclery@> wrote:

>

> GuruRatings , Venugopal AK <akvenugopal@> wrote:

> >

> > --- On Sat, 25/7/09, Tony OClery <aoclery@> wrote:

> > <snipped in reverence to Shri Ramana Maharishi ! "

> >

> > Namaste,

> >

> > This letter is important and tells it as it is...On many Ramana sites we

have statements like...'Ramana' blessed this and that...How can that be there is

no Ramana ....Tony.

> >

> > --- End forwarded message ---#VG#Dear Tony, It is

understood well, in India, that what a Guru tells a disciple/devotee is often

specific for that person and particular situation. One should not extrapolate it

to cover every one and all situations.

> > I have written this here earlier : One day Shri Nisargadatta Maharaj tells