Guest guest Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 Dear Prasanth tku for posting t h i s in ITS Grace michael - Prasanth Jalasutram Tuesday, May 12, 2009 11:22 AM What progress mankind made so far? A dog went to the cremation ground. It picked up a sharp piece of bone from which the flesh had been completely burnt off and started munching it. The sharp edges of the bone pierced the dog’s mouth in many places and there was bleeding. The dog dropped it, but seeing blood smeared all over it, it thought that the blood was coming from the bone because of its ravenous munching. It licked the blood and again started chewing the bone even more ravenously, with the result that there were more wounds in its mouth and more bleeding. The foolish dog went on repeating this process of dropping the bone, licking the blood and again chewing the bone. Little did that foolish dog realize that in fact the blood came from its own mouth and not from the bone!“A foolish dog picked up a bone,Bereft of flesh because ‘twas burnt,Masticated many a roundTill its mouth was filled with wounds,Licked end praised the blood, its own,‘No thing on earth equals this bone’,-- ‘Guru Vachaka Kovai’, verse 585Similarly, when a man enjoys external objects, he only experiences a little of the happiness that is already within him. But, on account of ignorance, he thinks that the happiness comes from the external objects, and thus he behaves like the dog in the story. Exactly like the dog that munched the bone again and again, throughout his life man repeatedly searches for and accumulates external objects. What is the result of all this? Alas ! Untold heaps of misery, with a few iotas of pleasure in between – that is all! Indeed, all this is ignorance, otherwise called maya!All the researches and efforts of mankind, from the stone age to the modern atomic age, in different fields of endeavour, be they intellectual, scientific or social – are they not all similar to the efforts of the dog which untiringly munches the bone? Do not feel offended by this statement, which may seem to be a sweeping one, for when told without reserve, this is the plain truth! Tell me, what indeed has mankind done in the name of progress so far, other than improving and accumulating external objects for the satisfaction of the five senses? All the aforesaid human efforts are based upon nothing but the wrong assumption that happiness comes from external objects. Is there any difference between the dog which thinks that more blood will come out of the dry bone the more it is munched, and the man who thinks that humanity will be made increasingly happy by accumulating more and more external objects through the improvements of scientific and industrial progress? Certainly not!Thus, not knowing the right path for obtaining everlasting happiness, humanity has gone too far and is racing still further in the wrong direction! There is no wrong in man’s love for happiness. It is his birthright. It is in fact the birthright of all living beings. Thus happiness should be obtained and should never be suppressed! But do not toil to achieve objects of worldly pleasure, which give only an iota of fleeting happiness. Direct all your efforts only to towards obtaining happiness in full. By desiring petty external objects you get only a transient and limited happiness. Therefore, be not a person of petty desire! Be a person of full desire! Until perfect happiness is obtained, do not give up your efforts. Know the way to experience always and uninterruptedly that happiness (ananda) which is you,and which exists (sat) and shines (chit) within you as your real nature. This is the goal supreme (purushartha), the very purpose for which you were born.Source: The Path of Sri Ramana Part 1 book by Sadhu Om -- Om namo Bhagavate Sri RamanayaPrashant Jalasutram Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.325 / Virus Database: 270.12.25/2109 - Release 05/11/09 16:14:00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 Dr.Raju wrote: Dear all, I feel that man has progressed both in the material and spiritual dimensions.In the material world man has found many utilities that gives comfort to the humanity like better living conditions by having a good shelter,food,advanced medical care, technological improvement etc.I am using this computer and sending the message which reach all corners of earth in a fraction of second. I dont think that there is nothing wrong in using utilities but problem arises when we mistake utilities as realities.We are identified with the inner utilities like mind,intellect,memory and we are thinking that they are the reality.If we identify with utilities then arises the problem.But if we use an utility it serves our purpose well.Ancient man does not know any meditation techniques, yoga,Tantra,Self-Enquiry in the field of spirituality.Now they are available to all sincere aspirants.I feel that humanity has progressed.Man is an opening,a potentiality for thousand and one things.Many alternatives are available for man at each step. If you love the life you will be able to find.Winston Churchill said " A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity,an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty " . Thanking you all~Dr.Raju. , Prasanth Jalasutram <jvrsprasanth wrote: > > A dog went to the cremation ground. It picked up a sharp piece of bone from > which the flesh had been completely burnt off and started munching it. The > sharp edges of the bone pierced the dog's mouth in many places and there was > bleeding. The dog dropped it, but seeing blood smeared all over it, it > thought that the blood was coming from the bone because of its ravenous > munching. It licked the blood and again started chewing the bone even more > ravenously, with the result that there were more wounds in its mouth and > more bleeding. The foolish dog went on repeating this process of dropping > the bone, licking the blood and again chewing the bone. Little did that > foolish dog realize that in fact the blood came from its own mouth and not > from the bone! > > " A foolish dog picked up a bone, > Bereft of flesh because `twas burnt, > Masticated many a round > Till its mouth was filled with wounds, > Licked end praised the blood, its own, > `No thing on earth equals this bone', > -- `Guru Vachaka Kovai', verse 585 > > Similarly, when a man enjoys external objects, he only experiences a little > of the happiness that is already within him. But, on account of ignorance, > he thinks that the happiness comes from the external objects, and thus he > behaves like the dog in the story. Exactly like the dog that munched the > bone again and again, throughout his life man repeatedly searches for and > accumulates external objects. What is the result of all this? Alas ! Untold > heaps of misery, with a few iotas of pleasure in between – that is all! > Indeed, all this is ignorance, otherwise called maya! > > All the researches and efforts of mankind, from the stone age to the modern > atomic age, in different fields of endeavour, be they intellectual, > scientific or social – are they not all similar to the efforts of the dog > which untiringly munches the bone? Do not feel offended by this statement, > which may seem to be a sweeping one, for when told without reserve, this is > the plain truth! Tell me, what indeed has mankind done in the name of > progress so far, other than improving and accumulating external objects for > the satisfaction of the five senses? All the aforesaid human efforts are > based upon nothing but the wrong assumption that happiness comes from > external objects. Is there any difference between the dog which thinks that > more blood will come out of the dry bone the more it is munched, and the man > who thinks that humanity will be made increasingly happy by accumulating > more and more external objects through the improvements of scientific and > industrial progress? Certainly not! > > Thus, not knowing the right path for obtaining everlasting happiness, > humanity has gone too far and is racing still further in the wrong > direction! There is no wrong in man's love for happiness. It is his > birthright. It is in fact the birthright of all living beings. Thus > happiness should be obtained and should never be suppressed! But do not toil > to achieve objects of worldly pleasure, which give only an iota of fleeting > happiness. Direct all your efforts only to towards obtaining happiness in > full. By desiring petty external objects you get only a transient and > limited happiness. Therefore, be not a person of petty desire! Be a person > of full desire! Until perfect happiness is obtained, do not give up your > efforts. Know the way to experience always and uninterruptedly that > happiness (ananda) which is you,and which exists (sat) and shines (chit) > within you as your real nature. This is the goal supreme (purushartha), the > very purpose for which you were born. > > Source: The Path of Sri Ramana Part 1 book by Sadhu Om > > -- > Om namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya > Prashant Jalasutram > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 Dear Drrajunsp let me thank you for your contributions. But this time i feel i have to contrradict you. Ancient times has brought mankind not only ADVAITA, THE ONE GD BELIEF.... Modern times did not bring ANYTHING which can be compared with these achievements. In contrary: mankind has progressed in all possible forms of negativity - like SHOAH and so on. And this "progress" continues day by day. Why? Because "man" do not seek truth, seeks comfort. Neglects the basis of "humanity" - LOVE. The ancient old jewish "proberb" "love thy neighbour as thyself" is NOT lived in practical terms. Of course you are right: modern means can mean a big help - if used with inner intelligence. Which is NOT. Watching TV all over the world, listen to radio news, reading newspaper from all corners of the "world" show us a depressing view of what is going on. Of course if you are not looking at those facts you can live in a dreamland. I prefer living in reality which means accepting ADVAITA as THE TRUTH, living this truth - at least giving my best - in practical day to day affairs. And please do not forget: you are of indian origin like i am of jewish origin, and both people have contributed soooo much to REAL humanity - do not forget this. Nothing to be proud of what modern western "civilization" achieved - its not more than a cheap copying of what ancient real cultures have achieved. Let us follow the holy message of my Sadguru SRI RAMANA MAHARSHA. Let us seek and find the SELF - which is all what is. The neverending TRUTH in Sri Ramana Maharshi michael - drrajunsp Tuesday, May 12, 2009 1:25 PM Re: What progress mankind made so far? Dr.Raju wrote:Dear all,I feel that man has progressed both in the materialand spiritual dimensions.In the material world man has found manyutilities that gives comfort to the humanity like better livingconditions by having a good shelter,food,advanced medical care,technological improvement etc.I am using this computer and sendingthe message which reach all corners of earth in a fraction of second.I dont think that there is nothing wrong in using utilities butproblem arises when we mistake utilities as realities.We are identified with the inner utilities like mind,intellect,memoryand we are thinking that they are the reality.If we identify withutilities then arises the problem.But if we use an utility it servesour purpose well.Ancient man does not know any meditation techniques,yoga,Tantra,Self-Enquiry in the field of spirituality.Now they areavailable to all sincere aspirants.I feel that humanity has progressed.Man is an opening,a potentiality for thousand and onethings.Many alternatives are available for man at each step.If you love the life you will be able to find.Winston Churchillsaid "A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity,an optimistsees the opportunity in every difficulty". Thanking you all~Dr.Raju. , Prasanth Jalasutram <jvrsprasanth wrote:>> A dog went to the cremation ground. It picked up a sharp piece of bone from> which the flesh had been completely burnt off and started munching it. The> sharp edges of the bone pierced the dog's mouth in many places and there was> bleeding. The dog dropped it, but seeing blood smeared all over it, it> thought that the blood was coming from the bone because of its ravenous> munching. It licked the blood and again started chewing the bone even more> ravenously, with the result that there were more wounds in its mouth and> more bleeding. The foolish dog went on repeating this process of dropping> the bone, licking the blood and again chewing the bone. Little did that> foolish dog realize that in fact the blood came from its own mouth and not> from the bone!> > "A foolish dog picked up a bone,> Bereft of flesh because `twas burnt,> Masticated many a round> Till its mouth was filled with wounds,> Licked end praised the blood, its own,> `No thing on earth equals this bone',> -- `Guru Vachaka Kovai', verse 585> > Similarly, when a man enjoys external objects, he only experiences a little> of the happiness that is already within him. But, on account of ignorance,> he thinks that the happiness comes from the external objects, and thus he> behaves like the dog in the story. Exactly like the dog that munched the> bone again and again, throughout his life man repeatedly searches for and> accumulates external objects. What is the result of all this? Alas ! Untold> heaps of misery, with a few iotas of pleasure in between – that is all!> Indeed, all this is ignorance, otherwise called maya!> > All the researches and efforts of mankind, from the stone age to the modern> atomic age, in different fields of endeavour, be they intellectual,> scientific or social – are they not all similar to the efforts of the dog> which untiringly munches the bone? Do not feel offended by this statement,> which may seem to be a sweeping one, for when told without reserve, this is> the plain truth! Tell me, what indeed has mankind done in the name of> progress so far, other than improving and accumulating external objects for> the satisfaction of the five senses? All the aforesaid human efforts are> based upon nothing but the wrong assumption that happiness comes from> external objects. Is there any difference between the dog which thinks that> more blood will come out of the dry bone the more it is munched, and the man> who thinks that humanity will be made increasingly happy by accumulating> more and more external objects through the improvements of scientific and> industrial progress? Certainly not!> > Thus, not knowing the right path for obtaining everlasting happiness,> humanity has gone too far and is racing still further in the wrong> direction! There is no wrong in man's love for happiness. It is his> birthright. It is in fact the birthright of all living beings. Thus> happiness should be obtained and should never be suppressed! But do not toil> to achieve objects of worldly pleasure, which give only an iota of fleeting> happiness. Direct all your efforts only to towards obtaining happiness in> full. By desiring petty external objects you get only a transient and> limited happiness. Therefore, be not a person of petty desire! Be a person> of full desire! Until perfect happiness is obtained, do not give up your> efforts. Know the way to experience always and uninterruptedly that> happiness (ananda) which is you,and which exists (sat) and shines (chit)> within you as your real nature. This is the goal supreme (purushartha), the> very purpose for which you were born.> > Source: The Path of Sri Ramana Part 1 book by Sadhu Om> > -- > Om namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya> Prashant Jalasutram> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.325 / Virus Database: 270.12.25/2109 - Release 05/11/09 16:14:00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 I agree with Micheal.Modern civilization is going forward in " mode of passion " currently.Adding to this I also want to share one Bg Gita quotation . Bg Ch7 text 27O scion of Bharata [Arjuna], O conqueror of the foe, all living entities are born into delusion, overcome by the dualities of desire and hate. Om namo Bhagavate Sri RamanayaPrashant JalasutramOn Tue, May 12, 2009 at 12:50 PM, Michael Bindel <michael.bindel wrote: Dear Drrajunsp let me thank you for your contributions. But this time i feel i have to contrradict you. Ancient times has brought mankind not only ADVAITA, THE ONE GD BELIEF.... Modern times did not bring ANYTHING which can be compared with these achievements. In contrary: mankind has progressed in all possible forms of negativity - like SHOAH and so on. And this " progress " continues day by day. Why? Because " man " do not seek truth, seeks comfort. Neglects the basis of " humanity " - LOVE. The ancient old jewish " proberb " " love thy neighbour as thyself " is NOT lived in practical terms. Of course you are right: modern means can mean a big help - if used with inner intelligence. Which is NOT. Watching TV all over the world, listen to radio news, reading newspaper from all corners of the " world " show us a depressing view of what is going on. Of course if you are not looking at those facts you can live in a dreamland. I prefer living in reality which means accepting ADVAITA as THE TRUTH, living this truth - at least giving my best - in practical day to day affairs. And please do not forget: you are of indian origin like i am of jewish origin, and both people have contributed soooo much to REAL humanity - do not forget this. Nothing to be proud of what modern western " civilization " achieved - its not more than a cheap copying of what ancient real cultures have achieved. Let us follow the holy message of my Sadguru SRI RAMANA MAHARSHA. Let us seek and find the SELF - which is all what is. The neverending TRUTH in Sri Ramana Maharshi michael - drrajunsp Tuesday, May 12, 2009 1:25 PM Re: What progress mankind made so far? Dr.Raju wrote:Dear all,I feel that man has progressed both in the materialand spiritual dimensions.In the material world man has found manyutilities that gives comfort to the humanity like better livingconditions by having a good shelter,food,advanced medical care,technological improvement etc.I am using this computer and sendingthe message which reach all corners of earth in a fraction of second.I dont think that there is nothing wrong in using utilities butproblem arises when we mistake utilities as realities.We are identified with the inner utilities like mind,intellect,memoryand we are thinking that they are the reality.If we identify withutilities then arises the problem.But if we use an utility it servesour purpose well.Ancient man does not know any meditation techniques,yoga,Tantra,Self-Enquiry in the field of spirituality.Now they areavailable to all sincere aspirants.I feel that humanity has progressed.Man is an opening,a potentiality for thousand and onethings.Many alternatives are available for man at each step.If you love the life you will be able to find.Winston Churchillsaid " A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity,an optimistsees the opportunity in every difficulty " . Thanking you all~Dr.Raju. , Prasanth Jalasutram <jvrsprasanth wrote:>> A dog went to the cremation ground. It picked up a sharp piece of bone from> which the flesh had been completely burnt off and started munching it. The> sharp edges of the bone pierced the dog's mouth in many places and there was> bleeding. The dog dropped it, but seeing blood smeared all over it, it> thought that the blood was coming from the bone because of its ravenous> munching. It licked the blood and again started chewing the bone even more> ravenously, with the result that there were more wounds in its mouth and> more bleeding. The foolish dog went on repeating this process of dropping> the bone, licking the blood and again chewing the bone. Little did that> foolish dog realize that in fact the blood came from its own mouth and not> from the bone!> > " A foolish dog picked up a bone,> Bereft of flesh because `twas burnt,> Masticated many a round> Till its mouth was filled with wounds,> Licked end praised the blood, its own,> `No thing on earth equals this bone',> -- `Guru Vachaka Kovai', verse 585> > Similarly, when a man enjoys external objects, he only experiences a little> of the happiness that is already within him. But, on account of ignorance,> he thinks that the happiness comes from the external objects, and thus he> behaves like the dog in the story. Exactly like the dog that munched the> bone again and again, throughout his life man repeatedly searches for and> accumulates external objects. What is the result of all this? Alas ! Untold> heaps of misery, with a few iotas of pleasure in between – that is all!> Indeed, all this is ignorance, otherwise called maya!> > All the researches and efforts of mankind, from the stone age to the modern> atomic age, in different fields of endeavour, be they intellectual,> scientific or social – are they not all similar to the efforts of the dog> which untiringly munches the bone? Do not feel offended by this statement,> which may seem to be a sweeping one, for when told without reserve, this is> the plain truth! Tell me, what indeed has mankind done in the name of> progress so far, other than improving and accumulating external objects for> the satisfaction of the five senses? All the aforesaid human efforts are> based upon nothing but the wrong assumption that happiness comes from> external objects. Is there any difference between the dog which thinks that> more blood will come out of the dry bone the more it is munched, and the man> who thinks that humanity will be made increasingly happy by accumulating> more and more external objects through the improvements of scientific and> industrial progress? Certainly not!> > Thus, not knowing the right path for obtaining everlasting happiness,> humanity has gone too far and is racing still further in the wrong> direction! There is no wrong in man's love for happiness. It is his> birthright. It is in fact the birthright of all living beings. Thus> happiness should be obtained and should never be suppressed! But do not toil> to achieve objects of worldly pleasure, which give only an iota of fleeting> happiness. Direct all your efforts only to towards obtaining happiness in> full. By desiring petty external objects you get only a transient and> limited happiness. Therefore, be not a person of petty desire! Be a person> of full desire! Until perfect happiness is obtained, do not give up your> efforts. Know the way to experience always and uninterruptedly that> happiness (ananda) which is you,and which exists (sat) and shines (chit)> within you as your real nature. This is the goal supreme (purushartha), the> very purpose for which you were born.> > Source: The Path of Sri Ramana Part 1 book by Sadhu Om> > -- > Om namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya> Prashant Jalasutram> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.325 / Virus Database: 270.12.25/2109 - Release 05/11/09 16:14:00 -- Om namo Bhagavate Sri RamanayaPrashant Jalasutram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 Dr.Raju wrote: Dear Bindel, I love your message.I do not expect that my views should not be contradicted by anybody.I feel that the contradictions are not antagonistic to each other.Life itself is contradictory and because of contradictions life is more alive,it gives possibilities for dynamic,moving,varieties,vastness. Life is dialectical,paradoxical,it is a movement between polarities. As Prasanth rightly pointed it out,modern civilization is deepely, intensely,authentically passionate.Only such persons become cool, silent,quiet.Buddha upto the age of 33 is a passionate womeniser but later he became one of the greatest mystic of all times. If one remains choiceless,one can see the play of polarity,both have to be lived.If you reject one pole that means you are trying to be wiser than God himself.If you choose ingoing breath and outgoing breath you will die.If your exhalation is not deep,your inhalation cannot be deep.They keep balancing each other. The deeper you go out,the deeper you go in.If we live both positive and negative we touch the " Essential Truth " which is beyond both. But if we go on condemning one pole we are unlikely to touch the Ultimate reality.I prefer choicelessness i.e just witnessing without judging the life.This is my way.Everybody has freedom to contradict me. , " Michael Bindel " <michael.bindel wrote: > > Dear Drrajunsp > > let me thank you for your contributions. > But this time i feel i have to contrradict you. > > Ancient times has brought mankind not only ADVAITA, THE ONE GD BELIEF.... > Modern times did not bring ANYTHING which can be compared with these achievements. > In contrary: mankind has progressed in all possible forms of negativity - like SHOAH and so on. > And this " progress " continues day by day. > Why? > Because " man " do not seek truth, seeks comfort. > Neglects the basis of " humanity " - LOVE. > > The ancient old jewish " proberb " " love thy neighbour as thyself " is NOT lived in practical terms. > > Of course you are right: modern means can mean a big help - if used with inner intelligence. > Which is NOT. > > Watching TV all over the world, listen to radio news, reading newspaper from all corners of the " world " show us a depressing view of what is going on. Of course if you are not looking at those facts you can live in a dreamland. > I prefer living in reality which means accepting ADVAITA as THE TRUTH, living this truth - at least giving my best - in practical day to day affairs. > > And please do not forget: you are of indian origin like i am of jewish origin, and both people have contributed soooo much to REAL humanity - do not forget this. > Nothing to be proud of what modern western " civilization " achieved - its not more than a cheap copying of what ancient real cultures have achieved. > Let us follow the holy message of my Sadguru SRI RAMANA MAHARSHA. > Let us seek and find the SELF - which is all what is. > The neverending TRUTH > > > in Sri Ramana Maharshi > > michael > - > drrajunsp > > Tuesday, May 12, 2009 1:25 PM > Re: What progress mankind made so far? > Dr.Raju wrote: > Dear all, > I feel that man has progressed both in the material > > and spiritual dimensions.In the material world man has found many > > utilities that gives comfort to the humanity like better living > > conditions by having a good shelter,food,advanced medical care, > > technological improvement etc.I am using this computer and sending > > the message which reach all corners of earth in a fraction of second. > > I dont think that there is nothing wrong in using utilities but > > problem arises when we mistake utilities as realities.We are > > identified with the inner utilities like mind,intellect,memory > > and we are thinking that they are the reality.If we identify with > > utilities then arises the problem.But if we use an utility it serves > > our purpose well.Ancient man does not know any meditation techniques, > > yoga,Tantra,Self-Enquiry in the field of spirituality.Now they are > > available to all sincere aspirants.I feel that humanity has > > progressed.Man is an opening,a potentiality for thousand and one > > things.Many alternatives are available for man at each step. > > If you love the life you will be able to find.Winston Churchill > > said " A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity,an optimist > > sees the opportunity in every difficulty " . > > Thanking you all~Dr.Raju. > > , Prasanth Jalasutram <jvrsprasanth@> wrote: > > > > A dog went to the cremation ground. It picked up a sharp piece of bone from > > which the flesh had been completely burnt off and started munching it. The > > sharp edges of the bone pierced the dog's mouth in many places and there was > > bleeding. The dog dropped it, but seeing blood smeared all over it, it > > thought that the blood was coming from the bone because of its ravenous > > munching. It licked the blood and again started chewing the bone even more > > ravenously, with the result that there were more wounds in its mouth and > > more bleeding. The foolish dog went on repeating this process of dropping > > the bone, licking the blood and again chewing the bone. Little did that > > foolish dog realize that in fact the blood came from its own mouth and not > > from the bone! > > > > " A foolish dog picked up a bone, > > Bereft of flesh because `twas burnt, > > Masticated many a round > > Till its mouth was filled with wounds, > > Licked end praised the blood, its own, > > `No thing on earth equals this bone', > > -- `Guru Vachaka Kovai', verse 585 > > > > Similarly, when a man enjoys external objects, he only experiences a little > > of the happiness that is already within him. But, on account of ignorance, > > he thinks that the happiness comes from the external objects, and thus he > > behaves like the dog in the story. Exactly like the dog that munched the > > bone again and again, throughout his life man repeatedly searches for and > > accumulates external objects. What is the result of all this? Alas ! Untold > > heaps of misery, with a few iotas of pleasure in between - that is all! > > Indeed, all this is ignorance, otherwise called maya! > > > > All the researches and efforts of mankind, from the stone age to the modern > > atomic age, in different fields of endeavour, be they intellectual, > > scientific or social - are they not all similar to the efforts of the dog > > which untiringly munches the bone? Do not feel offended by this statement, > > which may seem to be a sweeping one, for when told without reserve, this is > > the plain truth! Tell me, what indeed has mankind done in the name of > > progress so far, other than improving and accumulating external objects for > > the satisfaction of the five senses? All the aforesaid human efforts are > > based upon nothing but the wrong assumption that happiness comes from > > external objects. Is there any difference between the dog which thinks that > > more blood will come out of the dry bone the more it is munched, and the man > > who thinks that humanity will be made increasingly happy by accumulating > > more and more external objects through the improvements of scientific and > > industrial progress? Certainly not! > > > > Thus, not knowing the right path for obtaining everlasting happiness, > > humanity has gone too far and is racing still further in the wrong > > direction! There is no wrong in man's love for happiness. It is his > > birthright. It is in fact the birthright of all living beings. Thus > > happiness should be obtained and should never be suppressed! But do not toil > > to achieve objects of worldly pleasure, which give only an iota of fleeting > > happiness. Direct all your efforts only to towards obtaining happiness in > > full. By desiring petty external objects you get only a transient and > > limited happiness. Therefore, be not a person of petty desire! Be a person > > of full desire! Until perfect happiness is obtained, do not give up your > > efforts. Know the way to experience always and uninterruptedly that > > happiness (ananda) which is you,and which exists (sat) and shines (chit) > > within you as your real nature. This is the goal supreme (purushartha), the > > very purpose for which you were born. > > > > Source: The Path of Sri Ramana Part 1 book by Sadhu Om > > > > -- > > Om namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya > > Prashant Jalasutram > > > > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.325 / Virus Database: 270.12.25/2109 - Release 05/11/09 16:14:00 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 Dear Drrajunsp, I applaud your Spirit of Grace. Indeed we each one, ARE THAT behind Our dream of Dualistic polarities. The Only Love, Crys , " drrajunsp " <drrajunsp wrote: > > Dr.Raju wrote: > Dear Bindel, > I love your message.I do not expect that my > > views should not be contradicted by anybody.I feel that the > > contradictions are not antagonistic to each other.Life itself is > > contradictory and because of contradictions life is more alive,it > > gives possibilities for dynamic,moving,varieties,vastness. > > Life is dialectical,paradoxical,it is a movement between polarities. > > As Prasanth rightly pointed it out,modern civilization is deepely, > > intensely,authentically passionate.Only such persons become cool, > > silent,quiet.Buddha upto the age of 33 is a passionate womeniser > > but later he became one of the greatest mystic of all times. > > If one remains choiceless,one can see the play of polarity,both > > have to be lived.If you reject one pole that means you are trying > > to be wiser than God himself.If you choose ingoing breath and > > outgoing breath you will die.If your exhalation is not deep,your > > inhalation cannot be deep.They keep balancing each other. > > The deeper you go out,the deeper you go in.If we live both positive > > and negative we touch the " Essential Truth " which is beyond both. > > But if we go on condemning one pole we are unlikely to touch the > > Ultimate reality.I prefer choicelessness i.e just witnessing without > > judging the life.This is my way.Everybody has freedom to contradict > > me. > > > , " Michael Bindel " <michael.bindel@> wrote: > > > > Dear Drrajunsp > > > > let me thank you for your contributions. > > But this time i feel i have to contrradict you. > > > > Ancient times has brought mankind not only ADVAITA, THE ONE GD BELIEF.... > > Modern times did not bring ANYTHING which can be compared with these achievements. > > In contrary: mankind has progressed in all possible forms of negativity - like SHOAH and so on. > > And this " progress " continues day by day. > > Why? > > Because " man " do not seek truth, seeks comfort. > > Neglects the basis of " humanity " - LOVE. > > > > The ancient old jewish " proberb " " love thy neighbour as thyself " is NOT lived in practical terms. > > > > Of course you are right: modern means can mean a big help - if used with inner intelligence. > > Which is NOT. > > > > Watching TV all over the world, listen to radio news, reading newspaper from all corners of the " world " show us a depressing view of what is going on. Of course if you are not looking at those facts you can live in a dreamland. > > I prefer living in reality which means accepting ADVAITA as THE TRUTH, living this truth - at least giving my best - in practical day to day affairs. > > > > And please do not forget: you are of indian origin like i am of jewish origin, and both people have contributed soooo much to REAL humanity - do not forget this. > > Nothing to be proud of what modern western " civilization " achieved - its not more than a cheap copying of what ancient real cultures have achieved. > > Let us follow the holy message of my Sadguru SRI RAMANA MAHARSHA. > > Let us seek and find the SELF - which is all what is. > > The neverending TRUTH > > > > > > in Sri Ramana Maharshi > > > > michael > > - > > drrajunsp > > > > Tuesday, May 12, 2009 1:25 PM > > Re: What progress mankind made so far? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dr.Raju wrote: > > Dear all, > > I feel that man has progressed both in the material > > > > and spiritual dimensions.In the material world man has found many > > > > utilities that gives comfort to the humanity like better living > > > > conditions by having a good shelter,food,advanced medical care, > > > > technological improvement etc.I am using this computer and sending > > > > the message which reach all corners of earth in a fraction of second. > > > > I dont think that there is nothing wrong in using utilities but > > > > problem arises when we mistake utilities as realities.We are > > > > identified with the inner utilities like mind,intellect,memory > > > > and we are thinking that they are the reality.If we identify with > > > > utilities then arises the problem.But if we use an utility it serves > > > > our purpose well.Ancient man does not know any meditation techniques, > > > > yoga,Tantra,Self-Enquiry in the field of spirituality.Now they are > > > > available to all sincere aspirants.I feel that humanity has > > > > progressed.Man is an opening,a potentiality for thousand and one > > > > things.Many alternatives are available for man at each step. > > > > If you love the life you will be able to find.Winston Churchill > > > > said " A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity,an optimist > > > > sees the opportunity in every difficulty " . > > > > Thanking you all~Dr.Raju. > > > > , Prasanth Jalasutram <jvrsprasanth@> wrote: > > > > > > A dog went to the cremation ground. It picked up a sharp piece of bone from > > > which the flesh had been completely burnt off and started munching it. The > > > sharp edges of the bone pierced the dog's mouth in many places and there was > > > bleeding. The dog dropped it, but seeing blood smeared all over it, it > > > thought that the blood was coming from the bone because of its ravenous > > > munching. It licked the blood and again started chewing the bone even more > > > ravenously, with the result that there were more wounds in its mouth and > > > more bleeding. The foolish dog went on repeating this process of dropping > > > the bone, licking the blood and again chewing the bone. Little did that > > > foolish dog realize that in fact the blood came from its own mouth and not > > > from the bone! > > > > > > " A foolish dog picked up a bone, > > > Bereft of flesh because `twas burnt, > > > Masticated many a round > > > Till its mouth was filled with wounds, > > > Licked end praised the blood, its own, > > > `No thing on earth equals this bone', > > > -- `Guru Vachaka Kovai', verse 585 > > > > > > Similarly, when a man enjoys external objects, he only experiences a little > > > of the happiness that is already within him. But, on account of ignorance, > > > he thinks that the happiness comes from the external objects, and thus he > > > behaves like the dog in the story. Exactly like the dog that munched the > > > bone again and again, throughout his life man repeatedly searches for and > > > accumulates external objects. What is the result of all this? Alas ! Untold > > > heaps of misery, with a few iotas of pleasure in between - that is all! > > > Indeed, all this is ignorance, otherwise called maya! > > > > > > All the researches and efforts of mankind, from the stone age to the modern > > > atomic age, in different fields of endeavour, be they intellectual, > > > scientific or social - are they not all similar to the efforts of the dog > > > which untiringly munches the bone? Do not feel offended by this statement, > > > which may seem to be a sweeping one, for when told without reserve, this is > > > the plain truth! Tell me, what indeed has mankind done in the name of > > > progress so far, other than improving and accumulating external objects for > > > the satisfaction of the five senses? All the aforesaid human efforts are > > > based upon nothing but the wrong assumption that happiness comes from > > > external objects. Is there any difference between the dog which thinks that > > > more blood will come out of the dry bone the more it is munched, and the man > > > who thinks that humanity will be made increasingly happy by accumulating > > > more and more external objects through the improvements of scientific and > > > industrial progress? Certainly not! > > > > > > Thus, not knowing the right path for obtaining everlasting happiness, > > > humanity has gone too far and is racing still further in the wrong > > > direction! There is no wrong in man's love for happiness. It is his > > > birthright. It is in fact the birthright of all living beings. Thus > > > happiness should be obtained and should never be suppressed! But do not toil > > > to achieve objects of worldly pleasure, which give only an iota of fleeting > > > happiness. Direct all your efforts only to towards obtaining happiness in > > > full. By desiring petty external objects you get only a transient and > > > limited happiness. Therefore, be not a person of petty desire! Be a person > > > of full desire! Until perfect happiness is obtained, do not give up your > > > efforts. Know the way to experience always and uninterruptedly that > > > happiness (ananda) which is you,and which exists (sat) and shines (chit) > > > within you as your real nature. This is the goal supreme (purushartha), the > > > very purpose for which you were born. > > > > > > Source: The Path of Sri Ramana Part 1 book by Sadhu Om > > > > > > -- > > > Om namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya > > > Prashant Jalasutram > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.5.325 / Virus Database: 270.12.25/2109 - Release 05/11/09 16:14:00 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 Raju Sir i like your final conclusion statement " I prefer choicelessness i.e just witnessing without judging the life. " I want to bring in views of Swami Vivekananda and J Krishna Murthy here. If there is a wrestling match, who enjoys it, those who take part in it, or those who are looking on — the outsiders? The more and more you are the witness of anything in life, the more you enjoy it. And this is Ânanda; and, therefore, infinite bliss can only be yours when you have become the witness of this universe; then alone you are a Mukta Purusha. It is the witness alone that can work without any desire, without any idea of going to heaven, without any idea of blame, without any idea of praise. The witness alone enjoys, and none else. - Swami Vivekananda Freedom is found in the choiceless awareness of our daily existence and activity. - J Krishna MurthyOm namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya Prashant JalasutramOn Tue, May 12, 2009 at 2:10 PM, crystaqueous <crystaqueous wrote: Dear Drrajunsp, I applaud your Spirit of Grace. Indeed we each one, ARE THAT behind Our dream of Dualistic polarities. The Only Love, Crys , " drrajunsp " <drrajunsp wrote: > > Dr.Raju wrote: > Dear Bindel, > I love your message.I do not expect that my > > views should not be contradicted by anybody.I feel that the > > contradictions are not antagonistic to each other.Life itself is > > contradictory and because of contradictions life is more alive,it > > gives possibilities for dynamic,moving,varieties,vastness. > > Life is dialectical,paradoxical,it is a movement between polarities. > > As Prasanth rightly pointed it out,modern civilization is deepely, > > intensely,authentically passionate.Only such persons become cool, > > silent,quiet.Buddha upto the age of 33 is a passionate womeniser > > but later he became one of the greatest mystic of all times. > > If one remains choiceless,one can see the play of polarity,both > > have to be lived.If you reject one pole that means you are trying > > to be wiser than God himself.If you choose ingoing breath and > > outgoing breath you will die.If your exhalation is not deep,your > > inhalation cannot be deep.They keep balancing each other. > > The deeper you go out,the deeper you go in.If we live both positive > > and negative we touch the " Essential Truth " which is beyond both. > > But if we go on condemning one pole we are unlikely to touch the > > Ultimate reality.I prefer choicelessness i.e just witnessing without > > judging the life.This is my way.Everybody has freedom to contradict > > me. > > > , " Michael Bindel " <michael.bindel@> wrote: > > > > Dear Drrajunsp > > > > let me thank you for your contributions. > > But this time i feel i have to contrradict you. > > > > Ancient times has brought mankind not only ADVAITA, THE ONE GD BELIEF.... > > Modern times did not bring ANYTHING which can be compared with these achievements. > > In contrary: mankind has progressed in all possible forms of negativity - like SHOAH and so on. > > And this " progress " continues day by day. > > Why? > > Because " man " do not seek truth, seeks comfort. > > Neglects the basis of " humanity " - LOVE. > > > > The ancient old jewish " proberb " " love thy neighbour as thyself " is NOT lived in practical terms. > > > > Of course you are right: modern means can mean a big help - if used with inner intelligence. > > Which is NOT. > > > > Watching TV all over the world, listen to radio news, reading newspaper from all corners of the " world " show us a depressing view of what is going on. Of course if you are not looking at those facts you can live in a dreamland. > > I prefer living in reality which means accepting ADVAITA as THE TRUTH, living this truth - at least giving my best - in practical day to day affairs. > > > > And please do not forget: you are of indian origin like i am of jewish origin, and both people have contributed soooo much to REAL humanity - do not forget this. > > Nothing to be proud of what modern western " civilization " achieved - its not more than a cheap copying of what ancient real cultures have achieved. > > Let us follow the holy message of my Sadguru SRI RAMANA MAHARSHA. > > Let us seek and find the SELF - which is all what is. > > The neverending TRUTH > > > > > > in Sri Ramana Maharshi > > > > michael > > - > > drrajunsp > > > > Tuesday, May 12, 2009 1:25 PM > > Re: What progress mankind made so far? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dr.Raju wrote: > > Dear all, > > I feel that man has progressed both in the material > > > > and spiritual dimensions.In the material world man has found many > > > > utilities that gives comfort to the humanity like better living > > > > conditions by having a good shelter,food,advanced medical care, > > > > technological improvement etc.I am using this computer and sending > > > > the message which reach all corners of earth in a fraction of second. > > > > I dont think that there is nothing wrong in using utilities but > > > > problem arises when we mistake utilities as realities.We are > > > > identified with the inner utilities like mind,intellect,memory > > > > and we are thinking that they are the reality.If we identify with > > > > utilities then arises the problem.But if we use an utility it serves > > > > our purpose well.Ancient man does not know any meditation techniques, > > > > yoga,Tantra,Self-Enquiry in the field of spirituality.Now they are > > > > available to all sincere aspirants.I feel that humanity has > > > > progressed.Man is an opening,a potentiality for thousand and one > > > > things.Many alternatives are available for man at each step. > > > > If you love the life you will be able to find.Winston Churchill > > > > said " A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity,an optimist > > > > sees the opportunity in every difficulty " . > > > > Thanking you all~Dr.Raju. > > > > , Prasanth Jalasutram <jvrsprasanth@> wrote: > > > > > > A dog went to the cremation ground. It picked up a sharp piece of bone from > > > which the flesh had been completely burnt off and started munching it. The > > > sharp edges of the bone pierced the dog's mouth in many places and there was > > > bleeding. The dog dropped it, but seeing blood smeared all over it, it > > > thought that the blood was coming from the bone because of its ravenous > > > munching. It licked the blood and again started chewing the bone even more > > > ravenously, with the result that there were more wounds in its mouth and > > > more bleeding. The foolish dog went on repeating this process of dropping > > > the bone, licking the blood and again chewing the bone. Little did that > > > foolish dog realize that in fact the blood came from its own mouth and not > > > from the bone! > > > > > > " A foolish dog picked up a bone, > > > Bereft of flesh because `twas burnt, > > > Masticated many a round > > > Till its mouth was filled with wounds, > > > Licked end praised the blood, its own, > > > `No thing on earth equals this bone', > > > -- `Guru Vachaka Kovai', verse 585 > > > > > > Similarly, when a man enjoys external objects, he only experiences a little > > > of the happiness that is already within him. But, on account of ignorance, > > > he thinks that the happiness comes from the external objects, and thus he > > > behaves like the dog in the story. Exactly like the dog that munched the > > > bone again and again, throughout his life man repeatedly searches for and > > > accumulates external objects. What is the result of all this? Alas ! Untold > > > heaps of misery, with a few iotas of pleasure in between - that is all! > > > Indeed, all this is ignorance, otherwise called maya! > > > > > > All the researches and efforts of mankind, from the stone age to the modern > > > atomic age, in different fields of endeavour, be they intellectual, > > > scientific or social - are they not all similar to the efforts of the dog > > > which untiringly munches the bone? Do not feel offended by this statement, > > > which may seem to be a sweeping one, for when told without reserve, this is > > > the plain truth! Tell me, what indeed has mankind done in the name of > > > progress so far, other than improving and accumulating external objects for > > > the satisfaction of the five senses? All the aforesaid human efforts are > > > based upon nothing but the wrong assumption that happiness comes from > > > external objects. Is there any difference between the dog which thinks that > > > more blood will come out of the dry bone the more it is munched, and the man > > > who thinks that humanity will be made increasingly happy by accumulating > > > more and more external objects through the improvements of scientific and > > > industrial progress? Certainly not! > > > > > > Thus, not knowing the right path for obtaining everlasting happiness, > > > humanity has gone too far and is racing still further in the wrong > > > direction! There is no wrong in man's love for happiness. It is his > > > birthright. It is in fact the birthright of all living beings. Thus > > > happiness should be obtained and should never be suppressed! But do not toil > > > to achieve objects of worldly pleasure, which give only an iota of fleeting > > > happiness. Direct all your efforts only to towards obtaining happiness in > > > full. By desiring petty external objects you get only a transient and > > > limited happiness. Therefore, be not a person of petty desire! Be a person > > > of full desire! Until perfect happiness is obtained, do not give up your > > > efforts. Know the way to experience always and uninterruptedly that > > > happiness (ananda) which is you,and which exists (sat) and shines (chit) > > > within you as your real nature. This is the goal supreme (purushartha), the > > > very purpose for which you were born. > > > > > > Source: The Path of Sri Ramana Part 1 book by Sadhu Om > > > > > > -- > > > Om namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya > > > Prashant Jalasutram > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.5.325 / Virus Database: 270.12.25/2109 - Release 05/11/09 16:14:00 > > > -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 Dear all, I feel inclined to agree with Dr Raju for the need for balance, inclusiveness and acknowlegement of the beauty of the world as it unfolds, warts and all. Every age harkens to some nostaligic golden epoch when everything is purported to be utopian; but each age has the new and the cumulative (past) intertwined in ways that are beneficient and suffers its unintended consequences. The dialectical swings between a thesis and an antitheis searching for new equilibria and synthesis is how we have traversed through time (if progress as a teleological end is not acceptable). A study of history shows that we have always been acquisitive and violent as a consequence. We dont have to dismiss or reject our present to reach to a state of wisdom or virtue. Besides by such rejection we also place ourself in the trap of the inversion of what we reject and again trapped in a polarity/dualism. Neither did Sankara to my limited understanding suggest that you reject the world as illusory, he was more sophisticated than such a rejection. Like a systems thinking logic which he anticipated he maintained that the actuality of a certain level of analysis (vyavaharika-emperical, paribhasika-phenomenal, and paramarthika-transcendental)should be resolved at its own level and not reduced to a level lower. I recollect St Theresa of Avila who maintained her mystic dictum " Je choisis tout " " I choose all " . I dont think it is contradictory to any advaitic world view. Regards Srini , " drrajunsp " <drrajunsp wrote: > > Dr.Raju wrote: > Dear Bindel, > I love your message.I do not expect that my > > views should not be contradicted by anybody.I feel that the > > contradictions are not antagonistic to each other.Life itself is > > contradictory and because of contradictions life is more alive,it > > gives possibilities for dynamic,moving,varieties,vastness. > > Life is dialectical,paradoxical,it is a movement between polarities. > > As Prasanth rightly pointed it out,modern civilization is deepely, > > intensely,authentically passionate.Only such persons become cool, > > silent,quiet.Buddha upto the age of 33 is a passionate womeniser > > but later he became one of the greatest mystic of all times. > > If one remains choiceless,one can see the play of polarity,both > > have to be lived.If you reject one pole that means you are trying > > to be wiser than God himself.If you choose ingoing breath and > > outgoing breath you will die.If your exhalation is not deep,your > > inhalation cannot be deep.They keep balancing each other. > > The deeper you go out,the deeper you go in.If we live both positive > > and negative we touch the " Essential Truth " which is beyond both. > > But if we go on condemning one pole we are unlikely to touch the > > Ultimate reality.I prefer choicelessness i.e just witnessing without > > judging the life.This is my way.Everybody has freedom to contradict > > me. > > > , " Michael Bindel " <michael.bindel@> wrote: > > > > Dear Drrajunsp > > > > let me thank you for your contributions. > > But this time i feel i have to contrradict you. > > > > Ancient times has brought mankind not only ADVAITA, THE ONE GD BELIEF.... > > Modern times did not bring ANYTHING which can be compared with these achievements. > > In contrary: mankind has progressed in all possible forms of negativity - like SHOAH and so on. > > And this " progress " continues day by day. > > Why? > > Because " man " do not seek truth, seeks comfort. > > Neglects the basis of " humanity " - LOVE. > > > > The ancient old jewish " proberb " " love thy neighbour as thyself " is NOT lived in practical terms. > > > > Of course you are right: modern means can mean a big help - if used with inner intelligence. > > Which is NOT. > > > > Watching TV all over the world, listen to radio news, reading newspaper from all corners of the " world " show us a depressing view of what is going on. Of course if you are not looking at those facts you can live in a dreamland. > > I prefer living in reality which means accepting ADVAITA as THE TRUTH, living this truth - at least giving my best - in practical day to day affairs. > > > > And please do not forget: you are of indian origin like i am of jewish origin, and both people have contributed soooo much to REAL humanity - do not forget this. > > Nothing to be proud of what modern western " civilization " achieved - its not more than a cheap copying of what ancient real cultures have achieved. > > Let us follow the holy message of my Sadguru SRI RAMANA MAHARSHA. > > Let us seek and find the SELF - which is all what is. > > The neverending TRUTH > > > > > > in Sri Ramana Maharshi > > > > michael > > - > > drrajunsp > > > > Tuesday, May 12, 2009 1:25 PM > > Re: What progress mankind made so far? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dr.Raju wrote: > > Dear all, > > I feel that man has progressed both in the material > > > > and spiritual dimensions.In the material world man has found many > > > > utilities that gives comfort to the humanity like better living > > > > conditions by having a good shelter,food,advanced medical care, > > > > technological improvement etc.I am using this computer and sending > > > > the message which reach all corners of earth in a fraction of second. > > > > I dont think that there is nothing wrong in using utilities but > > > > problem arises when we mistake utilities as realities.We are > > > > identified with the inner utilities like mind,intellect,memory > > > > and we are thinking that they are the reality.If we identify with > > > > utilities then arises the problem.But if we use an utility it serves > > > > our purpose well.Ancient man does not know any meditation techniques, > > > > yoga,Tantra,Self-Enquiry in the field of spirituality.Now they are > > > > available to all sincere aspirants.I feel that humanity has > > > > progressed.Man is an opening,a potentiality for thousand and one > > > > things.Many alternatives are available for man at each step. > > > > If you love the life you will be able to find.Winston Churchill > > > > said " A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity,an optimist > > > > sees the opportunity in every difficulty " . > > > > Thanking you all~Dr.Raju. > > > > , Prasanth Jalasutram <jvrsprasanth@> wrote: > > > > > > A dog went to the cremation ground. It picked up a sharp piece of bone from > > > which the flesh had been completely burnt off and started munching it. The > > > sharp edges of the bone pierced the dog's mouth in many places and there was > > > bleeding. The dog dropped it, but seeing blood smeared all over it, it > > > thought that the blood was coming from the bone because of its ravenous > > > munching. It licked the blood and again started chewing the bone even more > > > ravenously, with the result that there were more wounds in its mouth and > > > more bleeding. The foolish dog went on repeating this process of dropping > > > the bone, licking the blood and again chewing the bone. Little did that > > > foolish dog realize that in fact the blood came from its own mouth and not > > > from the bone! > > > > > > " A foolish dog picked up a bone, > > > Bereft of flesh because `twas burnt, > > > Masticated many a round > > > Till its mouth was filled with wounds, > > > Licked end praised the blood, its own, > > > `No thing on earth equals this bone', > > > -- `Guru Vachaka Kovai', verse 585 > > > > > > Similarly, when a man enjoys external objects, he only experiences a little > > > of the happiness that is already within him. But, on account of ignorance, > > > he thinks that the happiness comes from the external objects, and thus he > > > behaves like the dog in the story. Exactly like the dog that munched the > > > bone again and again, throughout his life man repeatedly searches for and > > > accumulates external objects. What is the result of all this? Alas ! Untold > > > heaps of misery, with a few iotas of pleasure in between - that is all! > > > Indeed, all this is ignorance, otherwise called maya! > > > > > > All the researches and efforts of mankind, from the stone age to the modern > > > atomic age, in different fields of endeavour, be they intellectual, > > > scientific or social - are they not all similar to the efforts of the dog > > > which untiringly munches the bone? Do not feel offended by this statement, > > > which may seem to be a sweeping one, for when told without reserve, this is > > > the plain truth! Tell me, what indeed has mankind done in the name of > > > progress so far, other than improving and accumulating external objects for > > > the satisfaction of the five senses? All the aforesaid human efforts are > > > based upon nothing but the wrong assumption that happiness comes from > > > external objects. Is there any difference between the dog which thinks that > > > more blood will come out of the dry bone the more it is munched, and the man > > > who thinks that humanity will be made increasingly happy by accumulating > > > more and more external objects through the improvements of scientific and > > > industrial progress? Certainly not! > > > > > > Thus, not knowing the right path for obtaining everlasting happiness, > > > humanity has gone too far and is racing still further in the wrong > > > direction! There is no wrong in man's love for happiness. It is his > > > birthright. It is in fact the birthright of all living beings. Thus > > > happiness should be obtained and should never be suppressed! But do not toil > > > to achieve objects of worldly pleasure, which give only an iota of fleeting > > > happiness. Direct all your efforts only to towards obtaining happiness in > > > full. By desiring petty external objects you get only a transient and > > > limited happiness. Therefore, be not a person of petty desire! Be a person > > > of full desire! Until perfect happiness is obtained, do not give up your > > > efforts. Know the way to experience always and uninterruptedly that > > > happiness (ananda) which is you,and which exists (sat) and shines (chit) > > > within you as your real nature. This is the goal supreme (purushartha), the > > > very purpose for which you were born. > > > > > > Source: The Path of Sri Ramana Part 1 book by Sadhu Om > > > > > > -- > > > Om namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya > > > Prashant Jalasutram > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.5.325 / Virus Database: 270.12.25/2109 - Release 05/11/09 16:14:00 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 Coming back to our original question in this conversation.Is there any difference between the dog which thinks that more blood will come out of the dry bone the more it is munched, and the man who thinks that humanity will be made increasingly happy by accumulating more and more external objects through the improvements of scientific and industrial progress? My personal opinion is surely NO.Om namo Bhagavate Sri RamanayaPrashant Jalasutram On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 4:41 PM, A. Srinivas Rao <profsrinivasrao wrote: Dear all, I feel inclined to agree with Dr Raju for the need for balance, inclusiveness and acknowlegement of the beauty of the world as it unfolds, warts and all. Every age harkens to some nostaligic golden epoch when everything is purported to be utopian; but each age has the new and the cumulative (past) intertwined in ways that are beneficient and suffers its unintended consequences. The dialectical swings between a thesis and an antitheis searching for new equilibria and synthesis is how we have traversed through time (if progress as a teleological end is not acceptable). A study of history shows that we have always been acquisitive and violent as a consequence. We dont have to dismiss or reject our present to reach to a state of wisdom or virtue. Besides by such rejection we also place ourself in the trap of the inversion of what we reject and again trapped in a polarity/dualism. Neither did Sankara to my limited understanding suggest that you reject the world as illusory, he was more sophisticated than such a rejection. Like a systems thinking logic which he anticipated he maintained that the actuality of a certain level of analysis (vyavaharika-emperical, paribhasika-phenomenal, and paramarthika-transcendental)should be resolved at its own level and not reduced to a level lower. I recollect St Theresa of Avila who maintained her mystic dictum " Je choisis tout " " I choose all " . I dont think it is contradictory to any advaitic world view. Regards Srini , " drrajunsp " <drrajunsp wrote: > > Dr.Raju wrote: > Dear Bindel, > I love your message.I do not expect that my > > views should not be contradicted by anybody.I feel that the > > contradictions are not antagonistic to each other.Life itself is > > contradictory and because of contradictions life is more alive,it > > gives possibilities for dynamic,moving,varieties,vastness. > > Life is dialectical,paradoxical,it is a movement between polarities. > > As Prasanth rightly pointed it out,modern civilization is deepely, > > intensely,authentically passionate.Only such persons become cool, > > silent,quiet.Buddha upto the age of 33 is a passionate womeniser > > but later he became one of the greatest mystic of all times. > > If one remains choiceless,one can see the play of polarity,both > > have to be lived.If you reject one pole that means you are trying > > to be wiser than God himself.If you choose ingoing breath and > > outgoing breath you will die.If your exhalation is not deep,your > > inhalation cannot be deep.They keep balancing each other. > > The deeper you go out,the deeper you go in.If we live both positive > > and negative we touch the " Essential Truth " which is beyond both. > > But if we go on condemning one pole we are unlikely to touch the > > Ultimate reality.I prefer choicelessness i.e just witnessing without > > judging the life.This is my way.Everybody has freedom to contradict > > me. > > > , " Michael Bindel " <michael.bindel@> wrote: > > > > Dear Drrajunsp > > > > let me thank you for your contributions. > > But this time i feel i have to contrradict you. > > > > Ancient times has brought mankind not only ADVAITA, THE ONE GD BELIEF.... > > Modern times did not bring ANYTHING which can be compared with these achievements. > > In contrary: mankind has progressed in all possible forms of negativity - like SHOAH and so on. > > And this " progress " continues day by day. > > Why? > > Because " man " do not seek truth, seeks comfort. > > Neglects the basis of " humanity " - LOVE. > > > > The ancient old jewish " proberb " " love thy neighbour as thyself " is NOT lived in practical terms. > > > > Of course you are right: modern means can mean a big help - if used with inner intelligence. > > Which is NOT. > > > > Watching TV all over the world, listen to radio news, reading newspaper from all corners of the " world " show us a depressing view of what is going on. Of course if you are not looking at those facts you can live in a dreamland. > > I prefer living in reality which means accepting ADVAITA as THE TRUTH, living this truth - at least giving my best - in practical day to day affairs. > > > > And please do not forget: you are of indian origin like i am of jewish origin, and both people have contributed soooo much to REAL humanity - do not forget this. > > Nothing to be proud of what modern western " civilization " achieved - its not more than a cheap copying of what ancient real cultures have achieved. > > Let us follow the holy message of my Sadguru SRI RAMANA MAHARSHA. > > Let us seek and find the SELF - which is all what is. > > The neverending TRUTH > > > > > > in Sri Ramana Maharshi > > > > michael > > - > > drrajunsp > > > > Tuesday, May 12, 2009 1:25 PM > > Re: What progress mankind made so far? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dr.Raju wrote: > > Dear all, > > I feel that man has progressed both in the material > > > > and spiritual dimensions.In the material world man has found many > > > > utilities that gives comfort to the humanity like better living > > > > conditions by having a good shelter,food,advanced medical care, > > > > technological improvement etc.I am using this computer and sending > > > > the message which reach all corners of earth in a fraction of second. > > > > I dont think that there is nothing wrong in using utilities but > > > > problem arises when we mistake utilities as realities.We are > > > > identified with the inner utilities like mind,intellect,memory > > > > and we are thinking that they are the reality.If we identify with > > > > utilities then arises the problem.But if we use an utility it serves > > > > our purpose well.Ancient man does not know any meditation techniques, > > > > yoga,Tantra,Self-Enquiry in the field of spirituality.Now they are > > > > available to all sincere aspirants.I feel that humanity has > > > > progressed.Man is an opening,a potentiality for thousand and one > > > > things.Many alternatives are available for man at each step. > > > > If you love the life you will be able to find.Winston Churchill > > > > said " A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity,an optimist > > > > sees the opportunity in every difficulty " . > > > > Thanking you all~Dr.Raju. > > > > , Prasanth Jalasutram <jvrsprasanth@> wrote: > > > > > > A dog went to the cremation ground. It picked up a sharp piece of bone from > > > which the flesh had been completely burnt off and started munching it. The > > > sharp edges of the bone pierced the dog's mouth in many places and there was > > > bleeding. The dog dropped it, but seeing blood smeared all over it, it > > > thought that the blood was coming from the bone because of its ravenous > > > munching. It licked the blood and again started chewing the bone even more > > > ravenously, with the result that there were more wounds in its mouth and > > > more bleeding. The foolish dog went on repeating this process of dropping > > > the bone, licking the blood and again chewing the bone. Little did that > > > foolish dog realize that in fact the blood came from its own mouth and not > > > from the bone! > > > > > > " A foolish dog picked up a bone, > > > Bereft of flesh because `twas burnt, > > > Masticated many a round > > > Till its mouth was filled with wounds, > > > Licked end praised the blood, its own, > > > `No thing on earth equals this bone', > > > -- `Guru Vachaka Kovai', verse 585 > > > > > > Similarly, when a man enjoys external objects, he only experiences a little > > > of the happiness that is already within him. But, on account of ignorance, > > > he thinks that the happiness comes from the external objects, and thus he > > > behaves like the dog in the story. Exactly like the dog that munched the > > > bone again and again, throughout his life man repeatedly searches for and > > > accumulates external objects. What is the result of all this? Alas ! Untold > > > heaps of misery, with a few iotas of pleasure in between - that is all! > > > Indeed, all this is ignorance, otherwise called maya! > > > > > > All the researches and efforts of mankind, from the stone age to the modern > > > atomic age, in different fields of endeavour, be they intellectual, > > > scientific or social - are they not all similar to the efforts of the dog > > > which untiringly munches the bone? Do not feel offended by this statement, > > > which may seem to be a sweeping one, for when told without reserve, this is > > > the plain truth! Tell me, what indeed has mankind done in the name of > > > progress so far, other than improving and accumulating external objects for > > > the satisfaction of the five senses? All the aforesaid human efforts are > > > based upon nothing but the wrong assumption that happiness comes from > > > external objects. Is there any difference between the dog which thinks that > > > more blood will come out of the dry bone the more it is munched, and the man > > > who thinks that humanity will be made increasingly happy by accumulating > > > more and more external objects through the improvements of scientific and > > > industrial progress? Certainly not! > > > > > > Thus, not knowing the right path for obtaining everlasting happiness, > > > humanity has gone too far and is racing still further in the wrong > > > direction! There is no wrong in man's love for happiness. It is his > > > birthright. It is in fact the birthright of all living beings. Thus > > > happiness should be obtained and should never be suppressed! But do not toil > > > to achieve objects of worldly pleasure, which give only an iota of fleeting > > > happiness. Direct all your efforts only to towards obtaining happiness in > > > full. By desiring petty external objects you get only a transient and > > > limited happiness. Therefore, be not a person of petty desire! Be a person > > > of full desire! Until perfect happiness is obtained, do not give up your > > > efforts. Know the way to experience always and uninterruptedly that > > > happiness (ananda) which is you,and which exists (sat) and shines (chit) > > > within you as your real nature. This is the goal supreme (purushartha), the > > > very purpose for which you were born. > > > > > > Source: The Path of Sri Ramana Part 1 book by Sadhu Om > > > > > > -- > > > Om namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya > > > Prashant Jalasutram > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.5.325 / Virus Database: 270.12.25/2109 - Release 05/11/09 16:14:00 > > > -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Dr.Raju wrote: Dear Prasanth, Namaste. The source of happiness is only the " Self " .The role of external objects is utilitarian and they aid in comforting bodily existence. Once the body is in healthy condition,we can pursue our spiritual discipline without much hurdles from the body.Only to that extent these utilities are useful.Accumulating those utilities is just madness. Dr.Raju. , Prasanth Jalasutram <jvrsprasanth wrote: > > Coming back to our original question in this conversation. > > Is there any difference between the dog which thinks that more blood will > come out of the dry bone the more it is munched, and the man who thinks that > humanity will be made increasingly happy by accumulating more and more > external objects through the improvements of scientific and industrial > progress? > > My personal opinion is surely NO. > > Om namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya > Prashant Jalasutram > > On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 4:41 PM, A. Srinivas Rao > <profsrinivasraowrote: > > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > I feel inclined to agree with Dr Raju for the need for balance, > > inclusiveness and acknowlegement of the beauty of the world as it unfolds, > > warts and all. Every age harkens to some nostaligic golden epoch when > > everything is purported to be utopian; but each age has the new and the > > cumulative (past) intertwined in ways that are beneficient and suffers its > > unintended consequences. The dialectical swings between a thesis and an > > antitheis searching for new equilibria and synthesis is how we have > > traversed through time (if progress as a teleological end is not > > acceptable). A study of history shows that we have always been acquisitive > > and violent as a consequence. > > > > We dont have to dismiss or reject our present to reach to a state of wisdom > > or virtue. Besides by such rejection we also place ourself in the trap of > > the inversion of what we reject and again trapped in a polarity/dualism. > > Neither did Sankara to my limited understanding suggest that you reject the > > world as illusory, he was more sophisticated than such a rejection. Like a > > systems thinking logic which he anticipated he maintained that the actuality > > of a certain level of analysis (vyavaharika-emperical, > > paribhasika-phenomenal, and paramarthika-transcendental)should be resolved > > at its own level and not reduced to a level lower. I recollect St Theresa of > > Avila who maintained her mystic dictum " Je choisis tout " " I choose all " . I > > dont think it is contradictory to any advaitic world view. > > > > Regards > > Srini > > > > <%40>, > > " drrajunsp " <drrajunsp@> wrote: > > > > > > Dr.Raju wrote: > > > Dear Bindel, > > > I love your message.I do not expect that my > > > > > > views should not be contradicted by anybody.I feel that the > > > > > > contradictions are not antagonistic to each other.Life itself is > > > > > > contradictory and because of contradictions life is more alive,it > > > > > > gives possibilities for dynamic,moving,varieties,vastness. > > > > > > Life is dialectical,paradoxical,it is a movement between polarities. > > > > > > As Prasanth rightly pointed it out,modern civilization is deepely, > > > > > > intensely,authentically passionate.Only such persons become cool, > > > > > > silent,quiet.Buddha upto the age of 33 is a passionate womeniser > > > > > > but later he became one of the greatest mystic of all times. > > > > > > If one remains choiceless,one can see the play of polarity,both > > > > > > have to be lived.If you reject one pole that means you are trying > > > > > > to be wiser than God himself.If you choose ingoing breath and > > > > > > outgoing breath you will die.If your exhalation is not deep,your > > > > > > inhalation cannot be deep.They keep balancing each other. > > > > > > The deeper you go out,the deeper you go in.If we live both positive > > > > > > and negative we touch the " Essential Truth " which is beyond both. > > > > > > But if we go on condemning one pole we are unlikely to touch the > > > > > > Ultimate reality.I prefer choicelessness i.e just witnessing without > > > > > > judging the life.This is my way.Everybody has freedom to contradict > > > > > > me. > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > " Michael Bindel " <michael.bindel@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Drrajunsp > > > > > > > > let me thank you for your contributions. > > > > But this time i feel i have to contrradict you. > > > > > > > > Ancient times has brought mankind not only ADVAITA, THE ONE GD > > BELIEF.... > > > > Modern times did not bring ANYTHING which can be compared with these > > achievements. > > > > In contrary: mankind has progressed in all possible forms of negativity > > - like SHOAH and so on. > > > > And this " progress " continues day by day. > > > > Why? > > > > Because " man " do not seek truth, seeks comfort. > > > > Neglects the basis of " humanity " - LOVE. > > > > > > > > The ancient old jewish " proberb " " love thy neighbour as thyself " is NOT > > lived in practical terms. > > > > > > > > Of course you are right: modern means can mean a big help - if used > > with inner intelligence. > > > > Which is NOT. > > > > > > > > Watching TV all over the world, listen to radio news, reading newspaper > > from all corners of the " world " show us a depressing view of what is going > > on. Of course if you are not looking at those facts you can live in a > > dreamland. > > > > I prefer living in reality which means accepting ADVAITA as THE TRUTH, > > living this truth - at least giving my best - in practical day to day > > affairs. > > > > > > > > And please do not forget: you are of indian origin like i am of jewish > > origin, and both people have contributed soooo much to REAL humanity - do > > not forget this. > > > > Nothing to be proud of what modern western " civilization " achieved - > > its not more than a cheap copying of what ancient real cultures have > > achieved. > > > > Let us follow the holy message of my Sadguru SRI RAMANA MAHARSHA. > > > > Let us seek and find the SELF - which is all what is. > > > > The neverending TRUTH > > > > > > > > > > > > in Sri Ramana Maharshi > > > > > > > > michael > > > > - > > > > drrajunsp > > > > <%40> > > > > Tuesday, May 12, 2009 1:25 PM > > > > Re: What progress mankind made > > so far? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dr.Raju wrote: > > > > Dear all, > > > > I feel that man has progressed both in the material > > > > > > > > and spiritual dimensions.In the material world man has found many > > > > > > > > utilities that gives comfort to the humanity like better living > > > > > > > > conditions by having a good shelter,food,advanced medical care, > > > > > > > > technological improvement etc.I am using this computer and sending > > > > > > > > the message which reach all corners of earth in a fraction of second. > > > > > > > > I dont think that there is nothing wrong in using utilities but > > > > > > > > problem arises when we mistake utilities as realities.We are > > > > > > > > identified with the inner utilities like mind,intellect,memory > > > > > > > > and we are thinking that they are the reality.If we identify with > > > > > > > > utilities then arises the problem.But if we use an utility it serves > > > > > > > > our purpose well.Ancient man does not know any meditation techniques, > > > > > > > > yoga,Tantra,Self-Enquiry in the field of spirituality.Now they are > > > > > > > > available to all sincere aspirants.I feel that humanity has > > > > > > > > progressed.Man is an opening,a potentiality for thousand and one > > > > > > > > things.Many alternatives are available for man at each step. > > > > > > > > If you love the life you will be able to find.Winston Churchill > > > > > > > > said " A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity,an optimist > > > > > > > > sees the opportunity in every difficulty " . > > > > > > > > Thanking you all~Dr.Raju. > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > Prasanth Jalasutram <jvrsprasanth@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > A dog went to the cremation ground. It picked up a sharp piece of > > bone from > > > > > which the flesh had been completely burnt off and started munching > > it. The > > > > > sharp edges of the bone pierced the dog's mouth in many places and > > there was > > > > > bleeding. The dog dropped it, but seeing blood smeared all over it, > > it > > > > > thought that the blood was coming from the bone because of its > > ravenous > > > > > munching. It licked the blood and again started chewing the bone even > > more > > > > > ravenously, with the result that there were more wounds in its mouth > > and > > > > > more bleeding. The foolish dog went on repeating this process of > > dropping > > > > > the bone, licking the blood and again chewing the bone. Little did > > that > > > > > foolish dog realize that in fact the blood came from its own mouth > > and not > > > > > from the bone! > > > > > > > > > > " A foolish dog picked up a bone, > > > > > Bereft of flesh because `twas burnt, > > > > > Masticated many a round > > > > > Till its mouth was filled with wounds, > > > > > Licked end praised the blood, its own, > > > > > `No thing on earth equals this bone', > > > > > -- `Guru Vachaka Kovai', verse 585 > > > > > > > > > > Similarly, when a man enjoys external objects, he only experiences a > > little > > > > > of the happiness that is already within him. But, on account of > > ignorance, > > > > > he thinks that the happiness comes from the external objects, and > > thus he > > > > > behaves like the dog in the story. Exactly like the dog that munched > > the > > > > > bone again and again, throughout his life man repeatedly searches for > > and > > > > > accumulates external objects. What is the result of all this? Alas ! > > Untold > > > > > heaps of misery, with a few iotas of pleasure in between - that is > > all! > > > > > Indeed, all this is ignorance, otherwise called maya! > > > > > > > > > > All the researches and efforts of mankind, from the stone age to the > > modern > > > > > atomic age, in different fields of endeavour, be they intellectual, > > > > > scientific or social - are they not all similar to the efforts of the > > dog > > > > > which untiringly munches the bone? Do not feel offended by this > > statement, > > > > > which may seem to be a sweeping one, for when told without reserve, > > this is > > > > > the plain truth! Tell me, what indeed has mankind done in the name of > > > > > progress so far, other than improving and accumulating external > > objects for > > > > > the satisfaction of the five senses? All the aforesaid human efforts > > are > > > > > based upon nothing but the wrong assumption that happiness comes from > > > > > external objects. Is there any difference between the dog which > > thinks that > > > > > more blood will come out of the dry bone the more it is munched, and > > the man > > > > > who thinks that humanity will be made increasingly happy by > > accumulating > > > > > more and more external objects through the improvements of scientific > > and > > > > > industrial progress? Certainly not! > > > > > > > > > > Thus, not knowing the right path for obtaining everlasting happiness, > > > > > humanity has gone too far and is racing still further in the wrong > > > > > direction! There is no wrong in man's love for happiness. It is his > > > > > birthright. It is in fact the birthright of all living beings. Thus > > > > > happiness should be obtained and should never be suppressed! But do > > not toil > > > > > to achieve objects of worldly pleasure, which give only an iota of > > fleeting > > > > > happiness. Direct all your efforts only to towards obtaining > > happiness in > > > > > full. By desiring petty external objects you get only a transient and > > > > > limited happiness. Therefore, be not a person of petty desire! Be a > > person > > > > > of full desire! Until perfect happiness is obtained, do not give up > > your > > > > > efforts. Know the way to experience always and uninterruptedly that > > > > > happiness (ananda) which is you,and which exists (sat) and shines > > (chit) > > > > > within you as your real nature. This is the goal supreme > > (purushartha), the > > > > > very purpose for which you were born. > > > > > > > > > > Source: The Path of Sri Ramana Part 1 book by Sadhu Om > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Om namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya > > > > > Prashant Jalasutram > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > > > Version: 8.5.325 / Virus Database: 270.12.25/2109 - Release Date: > > 05/11/09 16:14:00 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Well said Raju Sir.I want to share here what Ramana Maharshi says about BodySpeaking to the attendants and to T.N. Krishnaswami,doctor and devotee, he explained: “The body is like a bananaleaf on which all kinds of delicious food have been served. After we have eaten the food from it do we take the leaf and preserve it? Do we not throw it away now that it has served its purpose?” On another occasion he said to the attendants: “Who is to carry this load of a body even after it needs assistance in everything? Do you expect me to carry this load that it would take four men to carry?”And to some of the devotees: “Suppose you go to a firewood depot and buy a bundle of firewood and engage a coolie to carry it to your house. As you walk along with him he will be anxiously looking forward to his destination so that he can throw off his burden and get relief. In the same way the Jnani is anxious to throw off his mortal body.” And then he corrected the explanation: “This exposition is all right as far as it goes, but strictly speaking even this is not quite accurate. The Jnani is not even anxious to shed his body; he is indifferent alike to the existence or non existence of the body, being almost unaware of it.” Om namo Bhagavate Sri RamanayaPrashant JalasutramOn Wed, May 13, 2009 at 12:49 AM, drrajunsp <drrajunsp wrote: Dr.Raju wrote: Dear Prasanth, Namaste. The source of happiness is only the " Self " .The role of external objects is utilitarian and they aid in comforting bodily existence. Once the body is in healthy condition,we can pursue our spiritual discipline without much hurdles from the body.Only to that extent these utilities are useful.Accumulating those utilities is just madness. Dr.Raju. , Prasanth Jalasutram <jvrsprasanth wrote: > > Coming back to our original question in this conversation. > > Is there any difference between the dog which thinks that more blood will > come out of the dry bone the more it is munched, and the man who thinks that > humanity will be made increasingly happy by accumulating more and more > external objects through the improvements of scientific and industrial > progress? > > My personal opinion is surely NO. > > Om namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya > Prashant Jalasutram > > On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 4:41 PM, A. Srinivas Rao > <profsrinivasraowrote: > > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > I feel inclined to agree with Dr Raju for the need for balance, > > inclusiveness and acknowlegement of the beauty of the world as it unfolds, > > warts and all. Every age harkens to some nostaligic golden epoch when > > everything is purported to be utopian; but each age has the new and the > > cumulative (past) intertwined in ways that are beneficient and suffers its > > unintended consequences. The dialectical swings between a thesis and an > > antitheis searching for new equilibria and synthesis is how we have > > traversed through time (if progress as a teleological end is not > > acceptable). A study of history shows that we have always been acquisitive > > and violent as a consequence. > > > > We dont have to dismiss or reject our present to reach to a state of wisdom > > or virtue. Besides by such rejection we also place ourself in the trap of > > the inversion of what we reject and again trapped in a polarity/dualism. > > Neither did Sankara to my limited understanding suggest that you reject the > > world as illusory, he was more sophisticated than such a rejection. Like a > > systems thinking logic which he anticipated he maintained that the actuality > > of a certain level of analysis (vyavaharika-emperical, > > paribhasika-phenomenal, and paramarthika-transcendental)should be resolved > > at its own level and not reduced to a level lower. I recollect St Theresa of > > Avila who maintained her mystic dictum " Je choisis tout " " I choose all " . I > > dont think it is contradictory to any advaitic world view. > > > > Regards > > Srini > > > > <%40>, > > " drrajunsp " <drrajunsp@> wrote: > > > > > > Dr.Raju wrote: > > > Dear Bindel, > > > I love your message.I do not expect that my > > > > > > views should not be contradicted by anybody.I feel that the > > > > > > contradictions are not antagonistic to each other.Life itself is > > > > > > contradictory and because of contradictions life is more alive,it > > > > > > gives possibilities for dynamic,moving,varieties,vastness. > > > > > > Life is dialectical,paradoxical,it is a movement between polarities. > > > > > > As Prasanth rightly pointed it out,modern civilization is deepely, > > > > > > intensely,authentically passionate.Only such persons become cool, > > > > > > silent,quiet.Buddha upto the age of 33 is a passionate womeniser > > > > > > but later he became one of the greatest mystic of all times. > > > > > > If one remains choiceless,one can see the play of polarity,both > > > > > > have to be lived.If you reject one pole that means you are trying > > > > > > to be wiser than God himself.If you choose ingoing breath and > > > > > > outgoing breath you will die.If your exhalation is not deep,your > > > > > > inhalation cannot be deep.They keep balancing each other. > > > > > > The deeper you go out,the deeper you go in.If we live both positive > > > > > > and negative we touch the " Essential Truth " which is beyond both. > > > > > > But if we go on condemning one pole we are unlikely to touch the > > > > > > Ultimate reality.I prefer choicelessness i.e just witnessing without > > > > > > judging the life.This is my way.Everybody has freedom to contradict > > > > > > me. > > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > " Michael Bindel " <michael.bindel@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Drrajunsp > > > > > > > > let me thank you for your contributions. > > > > But this time i feel i have to contrradict you. > > > > > > > > Ancient times has brought mankind not only ADVAITA, THE ONE GD > > BELIEF.... > > > > Modern times did not bring ANYTHING which can be compared with these > > achievements. > > > > In contrary: mankind has progressed in all possible forms of negativity > > - like SHOAH and so on. > > > > And this " progress " continues day by day. > > > > Why? > > > > Because " man " do not seek truth, seeks comfort. > > > > Neglects the basis of " humanity " - LOVE. > > > > > > > > The ancient old jewish " proberb " " love thy neighbour as thyself " is NOT > > lived in practical terms. > > > > > > > > Of course you are right: modern means can mean a big help - if used > > with inner intelligence. > > > > Which is NOT. > > > > > > > > Watching TV all over the world, listen to radio news, reading newspaper > > from all corners of the " world " show us a depressing view of what is going > > on. Of course if you are not looking at those facts you can live in a > > dreamland. > > > > I prefer living in reality which means accepting ADVAITA as THE TRUTH, > > living this truth - at least giving my best - in practical day to day > > affairs. > > > > > > > > And please do not forget: you are of indian origin like i am of jewish > > origin, and both people have contributed soooo much to REAL humanity - do > > not forget this. > > > > Nothing to be proud of what modern western " civilization " achieved - > > its not more than a cheap copying of what ancient real cultures have > > achieved. > > > > Let us follow the holy message of my Sadguru SRI RAMANA MAHARSHA. > > > > Let us seek and find the SELF - which is all what is. > > > > The neverending TRUTH > > > > > > > > > > > > in Sri Ramana Maharshi > > > > > > > > michael > > > > - > > > > drrajunsp > > > > <%40> > > > > Tuesday, May 12, 2009 1:25 PM > > > > Re: What progress mankind made > > so far? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dr.Raju wrote: > > > > Dear all, > > > > I feel that man has progressed both in the material > > > > > > > > and spiritual dimensions.In the material world man has found many > > > > > > > > utilities that gives comfort to the humanity like better living > > > > > > > > conditions by having a good shelter,food,advanced medical care, > > > > > > > > technological improvement etc.I am using this computer and sending > > > > > > > > the message which reach all corners of earth in a fraction of second. > > > > > > > > I dont think that there is nothing wrong in using utilities but > > > > > > > > problem arises when we mistake utilities as realities.We are > > > > > > > > identified with the inner utilities like mind,intellect,memory > > > > > > > > and we are thinking that they are the reality.If we identify with > > > > > > > > utilities then arises the problem.But if we use an utility it serves > > > > > > > > our purpose well.Ancient man does not know any meditation techniques, > > > > > > > > yoga,Tantra,Self-Enquiry in the field of spirituality.Now they are > > > > > > > > available to all sincere aspirants.I feel that humanity has > > > > > > > > progressed.Man is an opening,a potentiality for thousand and one > > > > > > > > things.Many alternatives are available for man at each step. > > > > > > > > If you love the life you will be able to find.Winston Churchill > > > > > > > > said " A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity,an optimist > > > > > > > > sees the opportunity in every difficulty " . > > > > > > > > Thanking you all~Dr.Raju. > > > > > > > > <%40>, > > Prasanth Jalasutram <jvrsprasanth@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > A dog went to the cremation ground. It picked up a sharp piece of > > bone from > > > > > which the flesh had been completely burnt off and started munching > > it. The > > > > > sharp edges of the bone pierced the dog's mouth in many places and > > there was > > > > > bleeding. The dog dropped it, but seeing blood smeared all over it, > > it > > > > > thought that the blood was coming from the bone because of its > > ravenous > > > > > munching. It licked the blood and again started chewing the bone even > > more > > > > > ravenously, with the result that there were more wounds in its mouth > > and > > > > > more bleeding. The foolish dog went on repeating this process of > > dropping > > > > > the bone, licking the blood and again chewing the bone. Little did > > that > > > > > foolish dog realize that in fact the blood came from its own mouth > > and not > > > > > from the bone! > > > > > > > > > > " A foolish dog picked up a bone, > > > > > Bereft of flesh because `twas burnt, > > > > > Masticated many a round > > > > > Till its mouth was filled with wounds, > > > > > Licked end praised the blood, its own, > > > > > `No thing on earth equals this bone', > > > > > -- `Guru Vachaka Kovai', verse 585 > > > > > > > > > > Similarly, when a man enjoys external objects, he only experiences a > > little > > > > > of the happiness that is already within him. But, on account of > > ignorance, > > > > > he thinks that the happiness comes from the external objects, and > > thus he > > > > > behaves like the dog in the story. Exactly like the dog that munched > > the > > > > > bone again and again, throughout his life man repeatedly searches for > > and > > > > > accumulates external objects. What is the result of all this? Alas ! > > Untold > > > > > heaps of misery, with a few iotas of pleasure in between - that is > > all! > > > > > Indeed, all this is ignorance, otherwise called maya! > > > > > > > > > > All the researches and efforts of mankind, from the stone age to the > > modern > > > > > atomic age, in different fields of endeavour, be they intellectual, > > > > > scientific or social - are they not all similar to the efforts of the > > dog > > > > > which untiringly munches the bone? Do not feel offended by this > > statement, > > > > > which may seem to be a sweeping one, for when told without reserve, > > this is > > > > > the plain truth! Tell me, what indeed has mankind done in the name of > > > > > progress so far, other than improving and accumulating external > > objects for > > > > > the satisfaction of the five senses? All the aforesaid human efforts > > are > > > > > based upon nothing but the wrong assumption that happiness comes from > > > > > external objects. Is there any difference between the dog which > > thinks that > > > > > more blood will come out of the dry bone the more it is munched, and > > the man > > > > > who thinks that humanity will be made increasingly happy by > > accumulating > > > > > more and more external objects through the improvements of scientific > > and > > > > > industrial progress? Certainly not! > > > > > > > > > > Thus, not knowing the right path for obtaining everlasting happiness, > > > > > humanity has gone too far and is racing still further in the wrong > > > > > direction! There is no wrong in man's love for happiness. It is his > > > > > birthright. It is in fact the birthright of all living beings. Thus > > > > > happiness should be obtained and should never be suppressed! But do > > not toil > > > > > to achieve objects of worldly pleasure, which give only an iota of > > fleeting > > > > > happiness. Direct all your efforts only to towards obtaining > > happiness in > > > > > full. By desiring petty external objects you get only a transient and > > > > > limited happiness. Therefore, be not a person of petty desire! Be a > > person > > > > > of full desire! Until perfect happiness is obtained, do not give up > > your > > > > > efforts. Know the way to experience always and uninterruptedly that > > > > > happiness (ananda) which is you,and which exists (sat) and shines > > (chit) > > > > > within you as your real nature. This is the goal supreme > > (purushartha), the > > > > > very purpose for which you were born. > > > > > > > > > > Source: The Path of Sri Ramana Part 1 book by Sadhu Om > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Om namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya > > > > > Prashant Jalasutram > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > > > Version: 8.5.325 / Virus Database: 270.12.25/2109 - Release Date: > > 05/11/09 16:14:00 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Dear Prashant, do you have any references? It is always good to give the source accordingly. Kind regards G. , Prasanth Jalasutram <jvrsprasanth wrote: > > Well said Raju Sir. > I want to share here what Ramana Maharshi says about Body > > Speaking to the attendants and to T.N. Krishnaswami,doctor and devotee, he > explained: " The body is like a bananaleaf on which all kinds of delicious > food have been served. After we have eaten the food from it do we take the > leaf and preserve it? Do we not throw it away now that it has served its > purpose? " > > On another occasion he said to the attendants: " Who is to carry this load of > a body even after it needs assistance in everything? Do you expect me to > carry this load that it would take four men to carry? " > > And to some of the devotees: " Suppose you go to a firewood depot and buy a > bundle of firewood and engage a coolie to carry it to your house. As you > walk along with him he will be anxiously looking forward to his destination > so that he can throw off his burden and get relief. In the same way the > Jnani is anxious to throw off his mortal body. " And then he corrected the > explanation: " This exposition is all right as far as it goes, but strictly > speaking even this is not quite accurate. The Jnani is not even anxious to > shed his body; he is indifferent alike to the existence or non existence of > the body, being almost unaware of it. " > > Om namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya > Prashant Jalasutram > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Dear Gabriele, Below text was picked from " Ramana Maharshi and the Path of Self Knowledge " By Arthur Osborne This link will be useful for further reference: http://bhagavan-ramana.org//books/pos/pos017.html Om namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya Prashant JalasutramOn Wed, May 13, 2009 at 9:56 AM, Gabriele Ebert <g.ebert wrote: Dear Prashant, do you have any references? It is always good to give the source accordingly. Kind regards G. , Prasanth Jalasutram <jvrsprasanth wrote: > > Well said Raju Sir. > I want to share here what Ramana Maharshi says about Body > > Speaking to the attendants and to T.N. Krishnaswami,doctor and devotee, he > explained: " The body is like a bananaleaf on which all kinds of delicious > food have been served. After we have eaten the food from it do we take the > leaf and preserve it? Do we not throw it away now that it has served its > purpose? " > > On another occasion he said to the attendants: " Who is to carry this load of > a body even after it needs assistance in everything? Do you expect me to > carry this load that it would take four men to carry? " > > And to some of the devotees: " Suppose you go to a firewood depot and buy a > bundle of firewood and engage a coolie to carry it to your house. As you > walk along with him he will be anxiously looking forward to his destination > so that he can throw off his burden and get relief. In the same way the > Jnani is anxious to throw off his mortal body. " And then he corrected the > explanation: " This exposition is all right as far as it goes, but strictly > speaking even this is not quite accurate. The Jnani is not even anxious to > shed his body; he is indifferent alike to the existence or non existence of > the body, being almost unaware of it. " > > Om namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya > Prashant Jalasutram > -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 14, 2009 Report Share Posted August 14, 2009 A dog went to the cremation ground. It picked up a sharp piece of bone from which the flesh had been completely burnt off and started munching it. The sharp edges of the bone pierced the dog’s mouth in many places and there was bleeding. The dog dropped it, but seeing blood smeared all over it, it thought that the blood was coming from the bone because of its ravenous munching. It licked the blood and again started chewing the bone even more ravenously, with the result that there were more wounds in its mouth and more bleeding. The foolish dog went on repeating this process of dropping the bone, licking the blood and again chewing the bone. Little did that foolish dog realize that in fact the blood came from its own mouth and not from the bone! “A foolish dog picked up a bone,Bereft of flesh because ‘twas burnt,Masticated many a roundTill its mouth was filled with wounds,Licked end praised the blood, its own,‘No thing on earth equals this bone’, -- ‘Guru Vachaka Kovai’, verse 585Similarly, when a man enjoys external objects, he only experiences a little of the happiness that is already within him. But, on account of ignorance, he thinks that the happiness comes from the external objects, and thus he behaves like the dog in the story. Exactly like the dog that munched the bone again and again, throughout his life man repeatedly searches for and accumulates external objects. What is the result of all this? Alas ! Untold heaps of misery, with a few iotas of pleasure in between – that is all! Indeed, all this is ignorance, otherwise called maya! All the researches and efforts of mankind, from the stone age to the modern atomic age, in different fields of endeavour, be they intellectual, scientific or social – are they not all similar to the efforts of the dog which untiringly munches the bone? Do not feel offended by this statement, which may seem to be a sweeping one, for when told without reserve, this is the plain truth! Tell me, what indeed has mankind done in the name of progress so far, other than improving and accumulating external objects for the satisfaction of the five senses? All the aforesaid human efforts are based upon nothing but the wrong assumption that happiness comes from external objects. Is there any difference between the dog which thinks that more blood will come out of the dry bone the more it is munched, and the man who thinks that humanity will be made increasingly happy by accumulating more and more external objects through the improvements of scientific and industrial progress? Certainly not! Thus, not knowing the right path for obtaining everlasting happiness, humanity has gone too far and is racing still further in the wrong direction! There is no wrong in man’s love for happiness. It is his birthright. It is in fact the birthright of all living beings. Thus happiness should be obtained and should never be suppressed! But do not toil to achieve objects of worldly pleasure, which give only an iota of fleeting happiness. Direct all your efforts only to towards obtaining happiness in full. By desiring petty external objects you get only a transient and limited happiness. Therefore, be not a person of petty desire! Be a person of full desire! Until perfect happiness is obtained, do not give up your efforts. Know the way to experience always and uninterruptedly that happiness (ananda) which is you,and which exists (sat) and shines (chit) within you as your real nature. This is the goal supreme (purushartha), the very purpose for which you were born. Source: The Path of Sri Ramana Part 1 book by Sadhu Om -- Love And Love AloneOm Namo Bhagavate Sri RamanayaPrasanth Jalasutram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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